Nuestros Ranchos Site

Toribio Hernández de Arellano constitutes a sizable portion of our family's ancestry as we descend from 3 of his daughters (through multiple lines, and probably a 4th daughter as well, just not conclusively proven, yet). So I'm extremely grateful to you, Erik, for providing this information about Toribio and his ancestry.

Best regards,

Travis

Saludos Erik Andres Reynoso, 

I’m curious as to whether you were able to compare the Toribio Hernandez signature on:

(bottom right): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-63GH-8?i=422&cat=…

With the signature that you have from the Torbio Hernandez de Arellano from Salamanca, son of “Sebastián Hernández (arrendador), and Águeda Sánchez”.

Thanks,

Rick A. Ricci

Another wonderful analysis, Erik Andrés, thank you for sharing. I recall you sharing this information in your forum, and I followed it closely, since this family is also among my ancestors. I’ve also followed your posts regarding this family, Rick, thanks again!

If you don’t already have the signature of Toribio Hernández with which you can make comparisons, in a land & water document dated 26 Sep 1590, in Villa de los Lagos, one of the witnesses presented was Toribio Hernández, and he left his signature and gave his age as “mas de cincuenta años” (bottom right): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-63GH-8?i=422&cat=…

He was also presented as a witness on 4 Apr 1570 in Lagos, in the proceso del Santo Oficio contra Pedro Nuñez; at the time, he held the office of regidor and he gave his age as “mas de 40 años”; unfortunately, these files are currently restricted: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-QQN1-2?i=41&cat=3…

Thank you both for your work, and I look forward to updates!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Saludos Erik,

Here is a description given at the website of the sword:

“Se sabe que Sebastián Hernández “el Viejo”, labró en Toledo a finales del siglo XVI, según se desprende de los inventarios del príncipe D. Carlos, hijo del rey Felipe II.

Según la lista de Palomares, seguía viviendo en 1637. Curioso pomo muy similar al nº 47 del libro de Norman y que fue utilizado entre 1545 y 1640.

• GUARNICIÓN: de lazo de hierro dorado. Tiene siete guardas y dos patillas al recazo. Los gavilanes son planos, calados y vueltos en sentido contrario, con un escusón de pico en el centro. También plano y con el mismo calado, es el aro o guarda que llega hasta el pomo. Puño de madera ahusado y alambrado con una pequeña virola en la parte superior. Recazo con vaciado para el pulgar. El pomo es cónico, con dos resaltes macizos y otros dos planos y calados. Luce perilla con cuatro lados.
• HOJA: recta. En el tercio fuerte, tres canales con la inscripción repetida de la marca de Hernández “el viejo” y el resto a dos mesas. Toda ella a dos filos hasta la punta.
• INSCRIPCIÓN: DE SEBASTIAN HERNANDEZ TOLEDANO”
• 
  The sword was said to belong to Sebastian Hernandez El viejo, and it has his inscription on the sword, but I believe that the Sebastian Hernandez that was living in Toledo and in possession of it in 1637 was his son, Sebastian Hernandez El moso.

You can find a picture of a sword belonging to a Sebastian Hernandez, El Viejo here:

https://blog.tienda-medieval.com/espada-de-lazo-sebastian-hernandez-el-viejo-siglo-xvi/

Thanks again Erik,
Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Erik,

Thank you for sharing your information on Toribio Hernandez Arellano.   As I continued researching the Toribio Hernandez Arellano from the Golluf family, the cloud over that research has been not ever finding the definitive piece of evidence that they were the same people.  Though I thought that it was a only a possible match I continued researching the Golluf/Sanchez family and adding information on their genealogy. 

Thanks again for sharing these findings, 

Rick A Ricci

Erik Andres Reynoso has posted information on his research into the ancestry of Toribio Hernandez Arellano. His information has a different ancestry than the Toribio of the Golluf family, and also fits the timeline. 
 

1.)- Marcos Hernández, aka Marcos Vizcaíno., [ doublet-maker (jubetero)] married to Francisca Sánchez,

2.)-  ↑ Luis Hernández (alcalde de la Santa Hermandad) married to Isabel Sierra.

3.)- ↑ Sebastián Hernández, [ landlord, (arrendadero)] married to Águeda Sánchez

4.)- ↑ Toribio Hernandez Arellano

Although I have presented a different possibility with the Golluf ancestry, I am leaning towards the lineage that is presented by Erik.  He wrote the following:

“It is documented that a Toribio Hernández de Arellano departed for the Indies in 1549 (PARES, having obtained a license issued in Valladolid by officials of the Casa de la Contratación in Seville) and that he is named in a partition of inheritance (hijuela) in Salamanca alongside his siblings. These individuals constitute the known members of the Hernández de Arellano family from Salamanca.”

We won’t know if this is the correct lineage until we can compare signatures. 

For more information on Erik’s findings, Please go to : https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/34078

I had originally written the following paragraph

“Dr Abraham Haim put the the piece that said our Sanchez line descended through Juan Sanchez de Calayatud (aka Isaac Golluf aka Açach Golluf el menor) and not his brother Pedro Sanchez de Calayatud. I knew that Toribios grandfather Alonso Sanchez descended from Alazar Golluf but had originally thought that the descent was though his son Pedro. Dr Haim is the highest authority on these matters so if he says that he descends from Isaac Golluf (Juan Sanchez) then I will go along with him.”

Corrections:
 

• After looking at these additional records, I believe that I made a mistake to defer to Dr. Abraham Haim.  The additional records used to come to this conclusion are the multiple records of the lawsuits between Açach  Golluf el menor (aka Juan Sanchez de Calatayud), his brothers, his ex-wife, his stepmother over the inheritance from his father, Alazar (Eleazar) Golluf.     I should not have differed to Dr. Abraham Haim and other genealogists.  I should have stuck to the records that I found.

Another mistake was a confusing record that left me thinking that Abraham was the youngest of the brothers and that he was the youngest brother that changed his name to Pedro Sanchez de Calatayud.   That brought a lot of confusion when other records showed that Açach  Golluf “el mayor”, their grandfather changed his will and replaced Açach Golluf “el menor” with Abraham Golluf because he was very upset that Açach el menor had converted to Catholicism.  I mistakenly then assumed that Jehuda was the youngest because of a record that named Abraham and his younger brother Jehuda.  Jehuda was younger than Abraham, but he wasn’t the youngest.             

• The second correction: The youngest of the brothers that converted was not Abraham or Jehuda, it was Samuel Golluf aka Pedro Sanchez de Calayatud.  This is important as the line that I primarily focus on descends from Samuel Golluf.

The source for making these corrections are the many records involving the lawsuits between the family members over Açach Golluf el menor’s, (akaJuan Sanchez de Calatayud) inheritance from his father.  His dispute was with his stepmother and his ex-wife who divorced him when he converted to Catholicism. Another lawsuit was against his in-laws for attempting to kill him by poisoning him.

• The third correction to my previous post is to add some of the wives’ names.
• The fourth correction is that I also added two more  generations as I go further back in the family tree .

As to the inheritance lawsuit, It was a messy dispute because the Queen was also involved as she too was owed money by Açach’s father and the Queen was unaware that she running low in cash and that Açach’s father Alazar (Eleazar) Golluf had borrowed against some of her possessions in order to provide the Queen with the expensive  lifestyle she had become accustomed to.   And for a long time it looked as Juan Sanchez (Açach Golluff El menor) was not going to receive his inheritance that he had been promised both by his father and by the King and Queen. The bulk of the estate was going to go to his stepmother and his ex-wife who are sisters. What made this even more complicated was that  the judge assigned to the legal case by the queen was the father of his stepmother and his wife.  This obvious bias against him seemed like it would doom his case.  But in the end a document was found that proved that his father had clearly changed his will so that Açach El menor  would inherit the bulk of his estate and not Açach’s stepmother.   
 

The house of David, the same house as Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ.

Two additional generation is added as the father of Solomon is Jehuda Golluf and his grandfather Jucé Golluf.

1.) Jucé Golluf

2.) ↑ Jehudá Golluf and his second wife, Mira   They have two sons, Jucé Golluf and Solomon Golluf.

3). ↑ Solomon Golluf (caballero, resident of Barcelona, adelantado de la aljama de Zaragoza entre 1328 y 1330) (b. abt 1295). He had at least two marriages.  From his first marriage he had a son named Abraham. From his second marriage to Astruga, daughter of Samuel Abnarrabí y Cetí, he had Samuel.

4). ↑ Samuel Golluf (resident of Avignon) married to Bonastruga (Bona Astruga) daughter of Nahir Suxen.

Siblings : Azach (Açaqui) Golluf & Rebeca Golluf (her fame: beauty and can sing)

5). ↑ “Azach (Açaqui) Golluf el mayor” d. 9 de abril de 1391 and his wife Oro Xaprut (daughter of Azach (Ishaq) (Açach Xaprut)(Shaprut). He passed away one day after changing his will.   Azach Xaprut, Oro’s father is the son of Yosef Xaprut, (one source claims that Joseph Amali is Oro's father and that her name is Oro Amali but I have a evidence that explains why I believe this is a mistake. Oro Xaprut should not be confused with other members of the family named Oro or Orosol.  Açach Golluf and Oro Xaprut have multiple residences located in Avignon, France, and in Barcelona, and Zaragosa. 

6.) ↑Alazar (Alatzar, Eleazar) Golluf Iben David miembro de una ilustre y antigua familia de Zaragoza (d. 1389). Alazar had multiple wives.  The wife that is mother to his four sons Açach El menor (aka Juan Sanchez de Calatayud), Abraham, Jehuda, and Samuel (aka Pedro Sanchez) is named Joheví de Quatorze, daughter of Açach Quatorze de Tereul.  Alazar’s last wife,  Mira Almali, daughter of Jusé Almali 
Alazar Golluf was a cousin to Todric Ha Levi family, all descendants of the house of David
Alazar Golluf, miembro de una ilustre y antigua familia de Zaragoza, fue tesorero del rey don Juan I de Aragón y de su esposa Violante. Su alta posición le permitió ocuparse de los asuntos de la población judía incluso fuera de los límites de la aljama donde habitaba. De la casa de David. I don't know if the descent from david is through a paternal or maternal line.

Alazar Golluf is Treasurer of the Queen Violante of Aragon and the most prominent Jewish courtier at the time in Aragon. Alazar Golluf had a sister named Astruga  Golluf who married twice, first to Jento Ymano who left her a young widow after giving her a son by the name Manuel, in her second marriage she married into the prominent Alazar family. Alazar had another sister, Dueña Alazar that also married into this family, her husband was named Salomon Alazar.

[Tom Tov ben Hannah (Abenhanya), a scribe of the Jewish community of Montalban wrote a description of Alazar Golluf's death as a tragedy for all Aragonese Jews. In his letter he wonders who will defend the Jews of Aragon:

"Woe to us! Who can stand before the sons of kings;

To cast light before the face of he who walked in darkness;

And to open, in straits, blind eyes?;

Who can express [his] mighty acts;

With enemies at the gate, a voice on high?

For this our heart is faint,

Our dance has turned into mourning;

We have brought down as a ghost out of the ground;

Our voice is lower than low, a still voice;

Who can stand up to repair the breach;

And to complete that which is wanting without number,

Among the wretched Jews;

Who have lost their value, high of stature hewn down."]
 

6)↑ Samuel Golluf who changed his name to “Pedro Sanchez de Calayatud “ when he converted to Catholicism (aka Pedro Sanchez I) (title:Caballero), married to Alfonsina Baron (o Varon)
His title of Caballero brought many advantages to his grandsons. His title allows his grandsons to "gosar de todos los privilegios y inmunidades que descendientes de caballeros y hidalgos acostumbran gosar los caballeros y hidalgos en el presente reino de Aragon".{5}
 

Caballero Pero (Pedro) Sanchez I and Alfonsina Baron are the parents of:

7) ↑ Pedro (Pero) Sanchez (II) married to Blanquina Palau
This a family of "comerciante ennoblecidos por el servicio a la Monarquia de Aragon.

Pedro Sanchez and Blanquina Palau have many children. Among the many children are Gabriel Sanchez, Francisco Sanchez, Guillen Sanchez, Luis Sanchez, Francisca Sanchez Caverllaria, Alfonso Sanchez (he is our ancestor), and others. There are many children and they have interesting stories that are recorded in history that I will add later). Gabriel and Alonso are friends of Christopher Colombus. They knew each other because of Christopher Colombus's father, Domenico Colonne who was also a merchant that exported throughout the same area that Alfonso was involved in business. A nephew of Alfonso Sanchez is Rodrigo Sanchez de Soegovia who, among others, convinced Christopher Colombus that it was financially prudent to make slaves of the Indians in order to sell them. Rodrigo was on the first trip as veedor (inspector). Juan de San Pedro Sanchez (a brother or nephew, depending on the source) was also involved and convicted of the conspiracy to assassinate Pedro Abreus. {5}{6}{7}

8) ↑ Alfonso Sanchez (II) Palau. Aka (Alonso Sanchis) (b.1481) (d.3/June/1522) married to Leonor Dalmau
"Uno de los mayores operadores mercantiles" from Greece through all of the Mediterranean to Portugal and north to Ireland, England, France and north of France.
There are two main stories for Alfonso but he is also in many business records. The first, and false, allegation is that he is involved, with family members in the conspiracy to assassinate the inquisitor, and later saint, Pedro of Abreus. But it wasn't him, it was his relative with the same name who was a jurist. The second story is also important, and it is about how he is involved in a totally illegal sale of grains, while the people are hungary in Aragon, and to top it off he mixes old rotting grain to the good grain to make even more money. In both stories King Ferdinand protects him though there is obvious guilt in the second scandal and suspicion in the first.
They only had a son and a daughter. The son is:
 

9) ↑ Miguel Sanchez Dalmau (d.1538) married to Isabel Hernandez de Hijar y Ramirez de Arellano.
They had at least two sons. The eldest, Alfonso Sanchez (III) Hernandez was named after his paternal grandfather and took over his business and position as lugarteniente tesorero. Toribio was a younger son. Toribio may have come over with another sibling that went to what is now New Mexico but this is only a theory with a high probability due to all the pieces of the puzzle that have so far been collected.
 

10) ↑ Toribio Hernandez de Arellano 
 

It is important to remember that it is only a possibility, and not a probability, that The two Toribio Hernandez, the son of Miguel Sanchez Dalmau and Isabel Hernandez de Hijar and the Toribio Hernandez that is married to Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza are the same person, I have not found the definitive proof.  

But I did have success in identifying the Diego Hurtado de Mendoza that was written that he is the father of Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza married to Toribio.  There are still two issues with confirming the father of Isabel. The first issue is that I don’t have that document that states Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is her father    I would like to get that document in my hands, but no one has informed me where that document is, only that it exists. The second issue is the date that Diego Hurtado de Mendoza comes over to Nueva Galicia from Spain. It is documented when he comes over under the employ of the bishop.  But it seems that he had already been in Nueva Galicia before but I can’t find any information on the previous crossing.  He would of have had to come over previously in order to have fathered Isabel Mendoza in Nueva Galicia as Isabel Mendoza marries Toribio Hernandez de Arellano not long after Diego Hurtado de Mendoza’s voyage over with the bishop. Diego’s previous trip from Spain would have been in the employ of the viceroy Mendoza.

The ancestry of Diego Hurtado de Mendoza, the stated father of Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza, takes an entire chapter in my book, Mygenes2000

Source: My book “MyGenes2000”

Rick A. Ricci

Sorry Jorge that I hadn’t responded earlier.    I will soon post an update on the Golluf / Sanchez de Calatayud family and the ancestry of Diego Hurtado de Mendoza that one document states was the father of Isabel de Mendoza.     I also have cleared up the confusion as Pedro Sanchez de Calatayud original Hebrew name.  I will be posting this information soon. 

Rick A. Ricci

Rick,
As you mentioned in another post, Toribio's wife, Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza is not the daughter of Diego Hurtado de Mendoza y Pacheco (who never came to Mexico) and this screws up the genealogy of a lot of people.
I have been looking for the possible parents of Isabel and found one possibility in Diego Hurtado de Mendoza y Aragon (1500-1566) and Maria Mendoza Fonseca (1510-1554).
Are these the real parents of Isabel?
Anothe candidate I have been thinking about is Diego Hurtado de Mendoza, son of Rodrigo Hurtado de Mendoza (1479-?) who was a illegitimate son of Iñigo "el Gran Tendilla" Lopez de Mendoza y Quiñones and Inés de Tapia. Isabel would be the daugther of Inés del Valle y Leyva.

Another question: where could I buy your books?
Best regards.
Jorge

Mr Ricci,
In #3 you say, " Azach (Acaqui) Golluf and his wife Oro (daughter of Azach (Ishaq) Xaprut)".
The last line of #4 says, " Alcazar Golluf and Oro Xaprut are the parents of...".
I think I'm missing something.

Jaime Oceguera

Rick,

Thank you for your contribution. The Sánchez Dalmau is truly a very interesting family in the Kingdom of Aragón. I enjoyed reading the information you shared with us. I would like to remind all that this is only a theory and needs to be further researched. Rick is not saying that Toribio is the son of D. Miguel Sánchez Dalmau and Da. Isabel Fernández de Híjar y Arellano, but a possibility does exist as with anything. In regards to the timeline, family connections, surnames, and potential explanations, it is a very exciting and has opened more doors. I originally suggested many years ago that Hernández de Arellano is actually a compound surname and presented the theory that it was compounded by Fernández de Híjar and Ramírez de Arellano and it is nice to see we are all building upon each other's research. If it helps Toribio and Isabel did have a son name D. Gabriel Sánchez de Arellano, who married Isabel Sánchez de Lara on 14 Feb 1584 in Santa María de los Lagos, daughter of Capt. Juan Sánchez de Figueroa and Elvira Gil de Lara. I can see a parallel between this Gabriel and the Gabriel Sánchez Paulu previously mentioned in the genealogy presented.

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

I've just connected myself to Toribio Hernandez Arellano. Wooo hoo!

R.A. Ricci,

Thank you for the information on the Covarrubias. Gaspar de Covarrubias’ specific connection to the Bishop Diego de Covarrubias kept eluding me.

Also, does the eighth testigo of Juan de Hororzco, Toribio Hernandez, fit with yours, or is he a new unrelated Toribio? He had caught my attention because he was commenting on the converso members of Juan de Horozco’s family and because you had recently posted your Toribio Hernandez being from a mixed converso family.

R.A. Ricci,

While researching the Covarrubias family I ran into a Toribio Hernandez. You might want to look into this if you have not seen it already.

At peres.mcu.es there is a document:
“Información genealógica de Juan Orozco de Covarrubias”
ES.28079.AHN/1.1.11.6.4//INQUISICIÓN,1469,Exp.21

It is dated 8 August 1573.

The original images are not viewable at peres.mcu.es but the same record is copied in the book “Camcionero / Sebastián de Horozco ; introducción, edición crítica, notas, bibliografía y genealogía de Juan de Horozco por Jack Weiner,” Bern : H. Lang, 1975. Starting on page 325.

The fourth testigo is a Juan Fernandez who mentions a Toribio Hernandez and the eighth testigo is a Toribio Hernandez.

So you're saying that Miguel Sanchez and Isabel Hernandez de Hijar Ramirez de Arellano are the parents of Toribio? If so, I can go ahead and make the changes to that on the geni.com website.

Rick,

Have you ever seen evidence of your Diego Marquez de los Olivos (generation 13 in your original post) having had a brother or half-brother Capitan Miguel Marquez de los Olivos, Alguacil Mayor de Juchipila?

Much of the following is repeated from one of my old posts found here:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/22981

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the book:
La hacienda "Ciénega de Mata" de los Rincón Gallardo: un modelo excepcional de latifundio novohispano durante los siglos XVII y XVIII, by José Fernando Alcaide Aguilar, 2004.

An interesting note on page 470: footnote number 488 at the bottom of the page shows Capitan Miguel Marquez de los Olivos becoming Alguacil Mayor de Juchipila and mentions him as the brother of a Diego Marquez de los Olivos. The record that footnote number 488 is referring to can be referenced at:

1. http://pares.mcu.es/
2. click on the tab labeled “Busqueda Sencilla,”
3. where it says “Buscar” type in “Miguel Marquez de los Olivos”
4. click Audiencia de Guadalajara
5. click CONFIRMACION DE OFICIO: MIGUEL MARQUEZ DE LOS OLIVOS
6. click “Ver imagenes”

The problem is that I am not able to find where it mentions Diego Marquez de los Olivos.

In any event, the only Diego Marquez de los Olivos that I know of who fits this time period would be the Diego Marquez de los Olivos (1617-1672) who was the son of a Joseph Marquez de los Olivos and a Maria de Ornelas. Could this also mean that Capitan Miguel Marquez de los Olivos is their son?

Holcombe only offers one clue to the parentage of Capitan Miguel Marquez de los Olivos

In Holcombe’s letters page 174-175 As seen here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

“He [referring to Capitan Miguel Márquez de los Olivos] was from Juchipila or Jalpa and a natural son of Captain X Márquez de los Olivos -- don’t recall the details.”

I wish he had recalled the details and I wish I knew what source he extracted this information from. Could this mean that (Capitan?) Joseph Marquez de los Olivos married Maria de Ornelas and had Diego Marquez de los Olivos, but also had a natural son Capitan Miguel Marquez de los Olivos. Has anyone seen evidence of Joseph (husband of Maria de Ornelas) ever being a “Capitan”?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall, I would be very interested to find out if Capitan Miguel Marquez de los Olivos is a grandson of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano or not.

Mr. Ricci,

who are the parents of Toribio's mother Isabel Ramirez de arellano

Danny C. Alonso

I and others have researched primary sources from which we share our findings in WikiTree and in this forum. I understand that errors or incorrect assumptions are made and to that end I welcome and appreciate suggestions for improvements and corrections to information that I provide. I would also like to add that I am indebted to past researchers like Jaime Holcombe who provided the foundation from which we can add to. In regards to the information that you have provided in your post, I would greatly appreciate it if you could provide sources (aside from Jorge Barba's book) that confirm the following:

• Luis López Ramírez is the son of Luis López and Isabel Sánchez.
• Sebastián Ramírez is the son of Andrés López and Isabel Ramírez.
• Ana de la Cueva is the daughter of Pedro García de la Cueva and María Teresa de Sandoval.
• Andrés López, married to Isabel Ramírez, is the son of Álvaro López and Catalina López.
• Catalina López, wife of Álvaro López, is the daughter of Juan López and Inés López.

Un cordial saludo,

Austin Pérez

Hello Alice,

I found the proposed Rangel to Ha Levi ancestral line.   We discussed it here on nuestrosranchos in another thread.    There are mistakes in that line. I will do more research before posting it again.  

Thanks for bringing this up again, 

Rick A. Ricci

I have not connected the Romo family to the ha Levi family but it would not surprise me.  My Grandfather J HERMENEGILDO Romo Franco told me that we descended from Jews but never gave details.   He stated that presently our family was Roman Catholic but that family had a past with a different religion.   It was his way of saying that we had Jewish ancestors.   But these Jewish ancestors that he was talking about could have come from any of his ancestral lines, and not from a direct Romo ancestry. My grandfather is a third cousin to Santo Toribio Romo twice.

Diego el Romo was accused of Blasphemy in 1569 by the inquisition.  I still haven’t connected this Diego el Romo to my family line but he is from the same area as my Romo ancestors 


Rick A. Ricci

I have not connected the Romo family to the ha Levi family but it would not surprise me.  My Grandfather J HERMENEGILDO Romo Franco told me that we descended from Jews but never gave details    He stated that presently our family was Roman Catholic but that family had a past with a different religion.   It was his way of saying that we had Jewish ancestors.   “ Diego el Romo” was accused of Blasphemy in 1569 by the inquisition.  This Diego lived in the same area as my Romo ancestors.    

My ancestor Diego Romo de Vivar is a grandchild of “Juan Luis Rincon and Maria Romo” who lived at the same time, and in the same area, as Diego el Romo.

Rick A. Ricci

You mentioned “late Sergio Gutierrrez”.   Is this the same Sergio Gutierrez that wrote a few  of books regarding Gutierrez genealogy and genealogy in Jalostotitlan? When and how did he pass away?   

27 May 1573

I just found a dowry record of another ancestor of mine, Berenguela De Montemayor, that names her father as Martin Alfonso De Montemayor. He does not name Berenguela in his will. Married daughters were often excluded from wills. This female ancestor was a great grandmother of Ruy Diaz De Mendoza. This is the documented line of ancestry of Ruy Diaz De Mendoza that is married to Catalina Salazar. This is another of multiple instances that I have seen where a daughter who is named as receiving a dowry from their father is not named in his will as he has already “ taken care “ of her financially.

The Lope Ruiz De Esparza record that I saw only named his mother-in-law as Moctezuma’s granddaughter, but Guillermo Teresa De Tovar notified me that he had a record in his possession that identified her as part of the Sotelo Moctezuma family. He did not show it to me but he did send me a “verbatim quote”. He said that he would send me a copy but he passed away before was able to pass it on. Other records show Petronila Moctezuma as madrina of children of the Sotelo Valderrama Moctezuma family.

Guillermo Tovar De Teresa showed a little frustration with me when I told him that there was a small mistake in an SHARR article that he coauthored with Mariano Gonzalez Leal and other authors.. The person that belonged in that line of descent should have been a nephew of the person they had in the list of descent from CHARLEMAGNE. This evidence added one more generation to the line. The evidence that I have are court records regarding a real estate dispute. Since He was upset about the conversation, I thought it best to give him a little space until he was ready to listen to my evidence. Unfortunately, he passed away before we had a chance to renew our discussions.

Is there still debate about whether or not Petronila de Moctezuma was a direct line descendant of Moctezuma, and who her parents were?

I have read Margo Tamez's Ph.D disseration about Petronila's lineage and the debate about who her parents were. I also read in Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia, volume 7, page 214, author Mauriano Gonzalez- Leal, that Petronila is a child of Leonor de Valderamma y Moctezuma and Diego Arias de Sotelo.

Is there now general consensus about her parents? Have any documents been identified that support the theory about her parents?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Hay información sobre esto en geni

https://www.geni.com/people/Petronila-Sotelo-de-Moctezuma/6000000009142…

See http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/system/files/private/active/0/Moctezuma%…, this is a bit dated, but is what I could verify from historical references.

I have never seen a document that connects Petronila de Moctezuma to this family

Is this the same person who was married to don Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra, married 2/28/1649 at Santa Maria de los Lagos? 

Son Diego is named with the compound last name Muñoz Rubio in his marriage with Josefa Martín de Bocanegra:

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-2022," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5T4-B?cc=1874591&wc=3J6F-… : 15 December 2021), Lagos de Moreno > Santa María de los Lagos > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1634-1665 > image 410 of 523; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

and also in his marriage with Mariana del Ángel (de los Ángeles), in which his father is named as Miguel Muñoz Rubio:

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-2022," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TH-8?cc=1874591&wc=3J6F-… : 15 December 2021), Lagos de Moreno > Santa María de los Lagos > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1634-1665 > image 440 of 523; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

The baptism of Mariana, daughter of Diego Muñoz and Josefa de Bocanegra, has the godparents as Francisco Bravo and María Rubio (Rubio Godínez):

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-2022," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5BC-Q?cc=1874591&wc=3J6F-… : 15 December 2021), Lagos de Moreno > Santa María de los Lagos > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1634-1665 > image 306 of 523; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

María Rubio (Rubio Godínez) maternal grandparents are Pedro Hernández and María Rubio.

Saludos

Austin Pérez

Erik,

That is very cool, will definitely check it out.

Thank you,

Edward

Great news, Erik! I will surely order a copy!

Saludos,

Manny Díez Hermosillo

De Nobleza Inmemorial: Genealogía y poder en los linajes de Nueva Galicia, Nueva España y el obispado de Michoacán (Spanish Edition) Hardcover – March 10, 2026
Spanish Edition  by Erik Andrés Reynoso y Márquez (Author)

Hello Erik,

I am really looking forward to your latest book.  I have looked for it online, but I haven’t been able to find it. Please let us know when it is available to buy.

Thanks again for your excellent work,

Rick A. Ricci

Congratulations Erik on your latest book. I look forward to reading it.   If I were to pick the three lineages that I am looking forward to the most is (1) Lomeli (2) Nuñez de Soto and Pantoja, and (3) your research on Juan de Portugal. 

Thanks again,

Rick

Don’t give up on the line “Antonio de Aguayo (son of Joseph de Aguayo and Manuela de Aguilar) married to Maria "Camacho Hermocillo" (not Yanez).”

More research is needed on Maria CamachoHermosillo    She may be the same Maria that is named Yañez    More research is needed to find out if they are the same person    In my research I have found many people, especially woman during this time frame, to be using different surnames 

Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Hello JL,

Welcome to this group! 

I'm a novice to Spanish Colonial genealogy, but I made a couple of reminder notes for myself from the info in your post. If I run into anything in the future that may assist you in your search, I'll reach out. 

Best of luck.

Travis

While I don’t have a direct ancestor who participated in the American Revolution, in a post from an earlier NR thread, a member revealed that the grandson of one of my ancestors (Bartolome Delgado, of Sierra de Pinos, Zacatecas) did participate. The link to the post can be found here (and includes a link to the poster’s source): https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/comment/30195#comment-30195

His entry says: Juan José Delgado. MPR:G, on 26 Nov 1775, widower of Josefa Leonarda Juarez and son of Juan Manuel Delgado of Sierra de Pinos and Matiana Contreras, married Ma Margarita Sanchez, daughter of Juan Bautista Sanchez and Juana Ma Diez. They [bur?] in in 1781.

That marriage took place in Nueva Ciudad Guerrero, Tamaulipas, just south of Laredo, TX. It doesn’t give any specifics of how he was involved, but the source given does give a list of Spaniards & New Spaniards who fought in the Revolution that can perhaps be helpful to you.

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Thanks you Erik for this new information on Lázaro Martin del Campo .    I descend from Lázaro numerous times.  

Rick A. Ricci

Estimada Veronica,

La familia de mi madre esta muy vinculada con las familias del Valle de Huejucar. Mi cuarto bisabuelo se llamaba D. Marcos de Velasco, este nacio el 21 de febrero de 1847 en el rancho Las Canoas que partencia a dicha familia. Aqui me entra una de varias ramas de los Rodriguez de Frias. Tal Marcos era hijo de Bruna Rodriguez de Frias, esta de Basilio Rodriguez de Frias, este de Pablo Florentino Rodriguez de Frias y este de Santiago Rodriguez de Frias y la madre se llamaba Maria Cristina Macias Valades y Jimenez Perez de Contreras. Aun no he logrado identificar los padres mas deberian nacer alreadores de 1725 tal vez en Nochistlan o Teocaltiche. Se que tuvieron unos hijos bautizados en Santa Maria de los Lagos.

Tal vez alguna persona tiene dato adicional.

Un saludo,
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Veronica,

Yo tengo el libro de José Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez de Frias. Buscare los nombres en el indice.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "verodamian@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 12:17 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sobre Los Rodriguez de Nochistlan

Que tal Amigos,

Es un mundo de informacion la que hay relacionada al apellido Rodriguez en Nochistlan, sin embargo yo estoy buscando a una familia en especifico y aunque el libro de Nochistlan seguramente esta muy completo, nose si me sirva para mi busqueda especifica. Les cuento esperando su consejo...

En 1759 vivia la familia (aparentemente española), compuesta por EUGENIO RODRIGUEZ Y MARCELINA GERTRUDIS CALVILLO, vivian en El Salitre, rancho cercano a Calvillo (antes llamado Valle de Huejucar), ellos tuvieron por lo menos los siguientes hijos:
Maria Casilda, Joseph Dionisio, Albina Gertrudis (casada con Juan Pablo Teliz en Yahualica), Joseph Vitorino, Joseph Maria y Maria Gertrudis.

EUGENIO RODRIGUEZ esta relacionado con los siguientes nombres que pueden ser sus hermanos, pues ellos fueron padrinos de sus hijos:

Ignacio Rodriguez y Gregoria de Jesus Puente
Juan Antonio Rodriguez y Juana Gertrudis Martinez
Pedro Rodriguez y Phelipa  Ramirez

Gracias a una dispensa matrimonial de su hija Albina, dice que vienen de Nochistlan y que ahí se llevarían a cabo las amonestaciones.
Esto me lleva a Nochistlan, ¿alguno de Ustedes tiene alguna relacion con estos nombres? ¿han visto algo en el libro de Nochistlan que me convenga adquirirlo?

Como siempre quedo de Ustedes, como su amiga,
Veronica Rodriguez

I don’t have them as children of Francisco Gonzalez Martinez cc Magdalena de Lavezares, but if either of them is, it’d be Magdalena Gonzalez cc Nicolas Sandoval, because from the kinship given in the dispensa of Lorenzo Mexia cc Magdalena Santillan, Magdalena de Lavezares cc Geronimo Sandoval was their granddaughter. The dispensa has the betrothed at 4o con 4o (and 4o con 3o in another line), but doesn’t explain the relationship, but from other records, the probable kinship is this:

Bernardino de Isla-1- ? ? ? ?
Juan de Isla-2-Magdalena Lavezares (cc Geronimo Sandoval)
Mariana de Isla-3-Cristobal Sandoval
Lorenzo Mexia-4-Magdalena Santillan

Using the process of elimination, Magdalena’s parents would have to be either Ynes Gonzalez cc Juan Gonz Hidalgo, or Andrea Lavezares cc Juan de la Cruz Martin Bermejo (Diego Gonzalez had a daughter named Magdalena, but she married Antonio Tovar Legazpi, and Juana Gonzalez cc Marcos Gonzalez had no children).

Dispensa, Lorenzo Mexia cc Magdalena Santillan: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6RSJ-1M?i=245&wc=3J4W-…
 

Saludos!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Hola.

En la plataforma Geneanet en la genealogía aportada por Javier Sánchiz, se encuentra la siguiente información:

Primera Generación

Hernando Padilla Dávila (1494) casado con Leonor de Machicao

Segunda generación

Lorenzo Padilla Dávila Machicao (1530) casado con Mariana Temiño de Velasco

Tercera Generación

Diego Padilla Dávila Temiño de Velasco (1560) casado con Ana Mota Vera

Cuarta Generación

Lorenzo Padilla Dávila Mota (1609) casado en primeras nupcias con Catalina Híjar Mesa

Quinta Generación

Diego Padilla Dávila Híjar casado con Lucía Flores de la Torre

Aparece un segundo matrimonio, pero no con Inés de Castro y Mesa, es probable que Catalina si sea la madre de Diego, pero que aparezca como madre otra mujer (Inés) que pudo ser su madrastra y a la vez su tía.

Antiguamente existía la costumbre, los viudos con bebés se casaban con una hermana o parienta de la mujer fallecida para que les ayudara a criar el niño.  Tanto Catalina como Inés comparten el apellido Mesa. También es probable que Lorenzo se haya casado tres veces o más.

Saludos

Marcelina

1)- Rollo “Hrolfr” “Rolf” “Rollon” “Rollo the Viking” “Rollo the Walker” “Rollo Normandy” nació in 860 ad y murio entre 928 ad y 933 ad. Rollo es uno de los más importantes Vikingos en historia. Rolls es antepasado de muchas casas reales en Europa. Rollo y Poppa procreáron a Guillaume “William Longsword.” 2)- Guillaume, “William Longsword”, (Guillaume Longue-Épée en frances) Lord of the Normans. Guillaume nacio en 893, fue asasinado 17/December/942. El controlo Normandía desde 927 hasta su muerte. Guilluame y Sprota procreán a Richard I “the Fearless”. 3)- Richard I “the Fearless”, Duke of Normandy , Richard I y su padre crecieron los terrenos de Normandy. Richard I y Gunnora procrearon Richard II “The Good” 4)- Richard II “The Good”, Duke of Normandy, nacio 23/August/963 y murió 28 August 1026. Richard II procreáro a Robert I. 5)- Robert I “the Magnificent”, Duke of Normandy Robert I procrearo a Guillermo I. 6)- Guillermo I, El Conquistador, nació en 1028, reinó en Inglaterra desde el 1066 hasta el 1087, sepultado en Caen, Francia. Guillermo I, casó con Matilde de Flandes, hija de Balduino V, Conde de Flandes y procrearon nueve hijos, uno de ellos: Enrique I. 7)- Enrique I, nació en 1070 y murio 1035, sucedió su hermano como rey. (Su hermano murió en 1100 de un accidental y cuestionable flechazo en una cacería.) Enrique fue rey hasta 1035. Enrique I se casó el 6 de agosto de 1100, en Westminster, con Edith Matilde, princesa escocesa, Desciende de King Alfred the Great, nacida en el 1080, en Dunfermline. Hija de Malcolm III Canmore, rey de Escocia y Santa Margarita. Casi no dejaron a Edith Matilde casarse. Se convocó a un concilio especial de la iglesia para asegurarse de que Edith Matilde no había hecho votos como monja. Su testimonio enfático logró convencerlos que ella no había hecho votos como monja. Procrearon dos hijos, El Príncipe Guillermo y Matilde de Inglaterra. Sin embargo, la corona pasó a un primo, otro descendiente colateral de Guillermo, El Conquistador, quien la retuvo por 19 años. 8)- Matilde de Inglaterra, la hija de Enrique I, nacida e en 1102, Londres, casó en segundas nupcias el 22/May/1127, con Godofredo V Plantagenet (1113-1151), Conde de Anjou. Procrearon tres hijos, uno de los cuales, se convertiría en Henry II, retomando de nuevo la línea sucesoral del trono de Inglaterra. Este sobresaliente monarca reinó desde 1154 hasta 1189. 9)- Henry II Plantagenet, King of England,(1133-1189), casó el 18/May/1152, con Eleanor of Aquitaine, hija de Guillermo X, Duque de Aquitania. Los hijos de esta pareja se mezclaron con todas las casas reales europeas de la época. Procrearon siete hijos, siendo uno de ellos Leonor de Plantagenet. 10)- Leonor de Plantagenet (1156-1214), la hija del Monarca inglés Enrique II, casó en 1177, en Burgos, España, con Alfonso VIII, Rey de Castilla (1155-1214). Alfonso VIII es hijo de Sancho III, Rey de Castilla y Blanca de Navarra. Procrearon seis hijos, entre ellos a Berenguela, Infanta de Castilla. 11)- Berenguela, Infanta de Castilla (1180-1246), casó en Dec/1197, en Valladolid, con Alfonso IX, Rey de León (1171-1230). Procrearon a Fernando III, (San Fernando) 12)- Fernando III, Rey de Castilla y León “San Fernando” (1201-1252), casó el 30/Nov/1219, en Burgos, Francia, con Beatriz (Elizabeth Von Hohenstaufen) de Suabia, quien a su vez era hija de Felipe de Suabia. Este monarca unificó para siempre Castilla y León. Además jugó un papel preponderante en la reconquista de España en manos de los moros. Procrearon tres hijos, entre ellos, quien mantendría la corona, Alfonso X, más conocido como Alfonso, El Sabio. 13)- Alfonso X, (El Sabio) nació el 23/Nov/1221, en Toledo y falleció en 1284, en Sevilla, España. Tuvo varios matrimonios, llevándose a cabo uno de ellos el 26 de noviembre de 1248, con Violante de Aragón, hija de Jaime I de Aragón y de Violante de Hungría, nació en 1236, en Zaragoza y falleció en 1301, en Roscesvalles, Navarra, España. Procrearon once hijos, siendo uno de estos Fernando de la Cerda, Infante de Castilla. 14)- Fernando de la Cerda, Infante de Castilla, nació el 23/Oct/1255, en Valladolid y falleció el 25/July/ 1275, en Ciudad Real. Casó el 30/Nov/1269, en Burgos, con Blanca Capeto de Francia (1252-1320), quien era hija del rey de Francia Luis IX. Tuvieron dos hijos, siendo uno de ellos Alfonso de la Cerda Infante de Castilla. 15)- Alfonso de la Cerda, Infante de Castilla (1270-1334), casó con Mahalda Brienne-EU y procrearon a Luís de la Cerda, Infante de Castilla. 16)- Luís de la Cerda, Infante de Castilla, nació en 1291, Francia. Casó con Leonor de Guzmán en el 1306, en Sevilla. Luís de la Cerda, falleció el 5/July/1348, en La Motte-Sur-Rhone, Francia. Procrearon a Juan de la Cerda. 17)- Juan de la Cerda(1327-1357), nació en Sevilla. Juan de la Cerda y Sol Martínez procrearon a Martín González de la Cerda. En el testamento de Leonor Guzman ella deja un dinero para Sol Martinez y escribe que ella esta embarazada por su hijo Juan de la Cerda. 18)- Martín González de la Cerda, casó en el 1366, con Violante Alvarez Pereyra, hija ilegítima de Alvaro Gonçalves Pereira, Obispo de Braga. Violante es hermana de Nuñez Alvarez Pereira, más conocido somo “San Nuño de Santa Maria” y como “el Protector de Portugal.” Martin y Violante procrearon a Mahalda de la Cerda. 19)- Mahalda de la Cerda, nació en ca. 1370, casó con Fernán Gutiérrez de Valverde y procrearon a María Gutiérrez de Valverde de la Cerda. 20)- María Gutiérrez de Valverde de la Cerda, murió 1464, casó con Gonzalo Porcallo Morán y procrearon a María Moran de la Cerda. 21)- Maria Moran de la Cerda, casó con Lorenzo Ulloa, Señor de Malgarrida, quien otorgó testamento y codicilo el 2/feb/1467. Lorenzo es hijo de Fernán Pérez de Ulloa Señor de Malgarrida y Gracia de Carvajal, vecinos de Cáceres, Fernán dio poder para testar a sus hijos el 11/Dec/1450. Lorenzo y Maria procrearon a Leonor de la Cerda. 22)- Leonor de la Cerda, casó con Balthazar Mendoza, hijo de Juan Pantoja y Elvira Alvarez de Mendoza. (Elvira es hija de Alfonso Duran Mendoza y Aldonza Vasquez de Sandoval. Filiación que consta en la carta de dote otorgada a favor de Juan Pantoja, el 3/Aug/1431). Rick A. Ricci Book: Mygenes2000

Bernardina Mendoza did not descend from the Juan Pantoja that we have been tracking in this thread. Bernadina’s parents and ancestry can be found at

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24761

The information that was gathered in this original thread was not in vain as it led to understanding the vast and complicated Pantoja ancestry.

Thanks to Erik Andres Reynoso For providing valuable genealogical information that clarified the identities of her parents and grandparents.

Rick A. Ricci

Otro dato incorrecto es el de Gonzalo Núñez de Sotomayor que según se dice nació en 1531 en Guadalajara y esto no puede ser ya que la primera fundación de Guadalajara (en Nochistlan) fue el 5 de enero de 1532 y duro en ese lugar hasta el 8 de agosto de 1533

Hola a todos:

Estoy de acuerdo en lo que dice nuestro amigo Carlos Peredo, es improbable la conexión que se ha hecho de Bernardina de Mendoza con los Duques de Alba, al menos la proporcionaba en algunos sitios de Internet.

Cometí el error hace tiempo de confiar en lo establecido en los sitios de Internet pensando en que no había razón por la cual inventar parentescos o fechas pero con la experiencia te das cuenta que todo debes tener documentado para que goce de validez y es ahí cuando empiezas a dudar de información sin fuente alguna y después por mero análisis como el que ha hecho Carlos Peredo con las fechas de nacimiento de sus supuestos progenitores te das cuenta que los datos en la web son falsos.
También por mi parte he logrado desmentir otras supuestas líneas gracias una investigación rigurosa y en otros casos los nombres son correctos pero a propósito suelen cambiar las fechas como un número en un año por ejemplo: 1681 a 1687. Yo creo que en estos casos, es preferible que se abstengan de compartir información falsa más para aquellos genealogistas que apenas van agarrando experiencia.

Al igual que ustedes espero que se pueda pronto conocer la verdadera filiación de Bernardina de Mendoza, una antepasada que compartimos muchos de nosotros y cuyo linaje lleno de dudas parece muy interesante.

Enrique Agraz

Mario González my Spanish is bad but I have seen a family tree that shows Luis Hurtado de Mendoza Guzman is Bernardina Mendoza 3rd great grandfather as demonstrated below.

Luis Hurtado de Mendoza Guzmán & Inés Toledo

Next generation
Inés Mendoza & Martín Pantoja

Next generation
Juan Pantoja & María Peña

Next generation
Catalina Pantoja & Alonso Cuevas

Next generation
Bernardina Mendoza 1533-1614 married 1554 Gonzalo Núñez de Sotomayor 1531-†

The tree said Un proyecto desarrollado desde el Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas de la Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Hola Angelina,

Thank you for posting this information. 

We are descended (2x) from the brother of Joseph Moreno de Ortega and sister of Petronila Ramírez: Juan Antonio Moreno de Ortega and Graciana Ramírez (married in 1715) through their two daughters: María Catarina (1741 cc Evaristo José Gómez), and Ana María (1738 cc Nicolás Antonio de Jaso). 

Sisters Graciana and Petronila Ramírez are granddaughters of Baltazar de los Reyes and Graciana de Ramos AKA de Mezquita, and great-granddaughters of early Lagos residents, Bartolomé de Mezquita and Luísa de Torres.

Thank you, again!

Best,

Travis

Peter Boyd Bowman wrote in his book that Pedro Pantoja and Catalina Rodriguez are the parents of Juan Pantoja. He provided detail as to when Pedro Pantoja came over and when Juan Pantoja came over.   
 
What caused the confusion was that we have many Pedro Pantojas who have a son named Juan Pantoja.   
And Baltazar Mendoza, brother of a Pedro Pantoja, did have a son named Juan Pantoja who came to the “new world”.  

If we are to believe Peter Boyd Bowman’s research, then Pedro Pantoja, that is the father of  the Juan Pantoja that is married to Catalina Medina, arrived in what is now Mexico in 1522. Pedro Pantoja passed away in 1565. Pedro Pantoja traveled to Mexico with a government official, an assistant of Cortez. It is clear when this Pedro Pantoja arrived, and he is not the same person that arrived with a nephew.

A Balthazar Mendoza did come over to Mexico as we find his name in a document with a list of people in Mexico City. He is referred to as Don Balthazar Mendoza.

The Juan Pantoja that was the son of Baltazar Mendoza did come over, but he did not marry Catalina Medina.   

The Pedro Pantoja from Medellin that is married to Catalina Rodriguez is found in a document that lists his father and he is a close relative of the Pantojas that we have been studying. This document identifies one of Pedro Pantoja’s activities prior to coming to Mexico. Catalina Rodriguez did not come to the “new world”. 

More research is needed to positively identify Catalina Rodriguez's ancestry. A record has her with an extended surname. I have seen a secondary source with her parents"s names but I am looking for primary sources to confirm that information.
Rick A. Ricci

10 enero 1577: Declaración de Gonzalo Hernández, conquistador de la Nueva España y vecino de la ciudad de México: conoce al dicho Juan de Pantoja más de cuarenta años y que sabe que se halló en la conquista de esta ciudad de México porque Diego Hernández Nieto conquistador se lo ha dicho a este testigo...l dicho Pantoja y su tío habían venido a la dicha conquista treinta días antes que se ganase la tierra y que así mismo sabe este testigo por habérselo dicho que el dicho Juan Pantoja se halló en las conquistas de Colima y Zacatula y otras partes y que en ellas sirvió muy bien a su majestad y que por razón de lo suso dicho cree que se le dio repartimiento de indios y que no sabe ni se acuerda cuáles y que sabe que el dicho Juan Pantoja es caballero e hijodalgo notorio porque por tal era de todos habido y el dicho su tío (Pedro Pantoja) que con él vino...

While looking for information on Domingo Medina, I overlooked what could be an important clue on my search for information on “Munguia” ancestors. Here is the entry where I focused on Domingo Medina, father-in-law of Juan Pantoja (son of Baltazar Mendoza y Pantoja and Leonor de la Cerda Ulloa),

Nº 3,R.2. 1556-1557.
El fiscal contra Domingo de Medina y Pedro de Monguía, alcalde ordinario y
procurador del pueblo de Guayangareo e Nº 3,R.2. 1556-1557.
El fiscal contra Domingo de Medina y Pedro de Monguía, alcalde ordinario y
procurador del pueblo de Guayangareo en la jurisdicción de Michoacán, sobre haber
injuriado al alcalde mayor de dicha ciudad. 1 pieza

I should have paid more attention to “Pedro de Monguía, alcalde ordinario y procurador del pueblo de Guayangareo en la jurisdicción de Michoacán,”

Now to look for information on this Pedro de Monguia (Munguia), alcalde ordinario.

Rick A. Ricci

Through Diego de Velasco y Temiño’s descent from “Garcia Gomez de Carillo, Señor de Ormasa y Mazuelo and Elvira Alvarez de Osorio” you will find that Juan Pantoja, son of Baltazar Mendoza and Leonor de la Cerda and husband of Catalina Medina, is a distant relative. Juan Pantoja has ancestors that are closely related to both Garcia Gómez de Carillo de Ormasa y Mazuelo and his wife Elvira Alvarez de Osorio.

Diego de Velasco y Temiño’s descent from “Garcia Gomez de Carillo.Señor de Ormasa y Mazuelo Elvira Alvarez de Osorio” can be found here:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23328?page=1

Through Juan Pantoja’s “Álvarez Osorio” ancestry he is also related to Hernando Padilla Dávila , “Villaseñor” and to the López Peralta (Coria Peralta).
Rick A. Ricci

In my research, I came across many instances where genealogists were taking the surname Soto to be short for Sotomayor. While this is true in many cases, it is not true in all cases. In some families, the “Soto” surname was originally “Scotto” in Genoa. The surname Scotto was changed to Soto when they arrived in Andalucia. The surname Scotto was originally another surname which I write about in my book.

Rick A. Ricci

Sorting out the family entanglements of the Pantoja family tree is not an easy task. Although secondary sources had placed the Captain / Lt. Juan Pantoja as a first cousin of our Juan Pantoja y Mendosa, a primary source points to the person that killed him as being the first cousin. They were short of food so it was recorded that the surviving crew ate their dead. Because of the similar name of Juan Pantoja, I am assuming that genealogists had assumed that the captain was the first cousin. They could have all been first cousins, but I doubt it as Captain Juan Pantoja is not identified as being killed by his first cousin, and the killer is identified as being the brother of a cousin of Juan Pantoja y Mendoza.

Rick A. Ricci

 The confusion comes about because there were numerous “Juan Pantoja” that are considered Conquistadores. There are at least four first cousin Juan Pantojas that are considered conquistadors in the “new world”. Baltazar Mendoza, Pedro Pantoja and a sister of theirs all had sons that are named “Juan Pantoja” making them first cousins. These first cousins are named after their paternal grandfather “Juan Pantoja”. Pedro Pantoja arrived in the “new world” with his nephew Juan Pantoja (son of Balthazar Mendoza and Leonor Ulloa De la Cerda). A second Juan Pantoja is a  son of Pedro and a third Juan pantoja is son of Baltazar’s sister and he was a Ship Captain /sailor.who was murdered by a companion while on exploration of North America. The fourth Juan Pantoja was a first cousin once removed that arrived in 1519 to Cuba, and 1522 to Mexico City.

Juan Pantoja descends from King Henry II of England and Queen Eleanore of Aquitane 1)Henry II King of England and Eleanor of Aquitane Queen of England 2 Eleonore de Inglaterra, princesa de inglaterra and Alfonso VIII rey de Castilla 3 Berenguela de Castilla and Alfonso IX rey de Leon 4 San Fernando III rey de Castilla and Beatriz de Suavia ( Elizabeth Hohenstaufen) 5 Alfonso X Fernandez and Yolanda Aragon 6 Fernando infante de Castilla and Blanca de Francia Capet 7 Alfonso de la Cerda and Mahalda de Brienne 8 Luis de la Cerda, infante de Castilla and Leonor Alfonso de Guzman 9Juan de la Cerda and Sol Martinez 10 Martin Gonzalez de Cerda and Violante Alvarez Pereira 11 Mahalda de la Cerda y Fernan Gutierrez de Valverde 12 Mari Gutierrez de Valverde y de la Cerda and Gonzalo Porcallo De Morán 13 Beatriz Moran and Lorenzo Ulloa 14 Leonor Ulloa De la Cerda and Balthazar Mendoza Pantoja 15 Juan Pantoja Mendoza, Rick A. Ricci

Dear Erik, Gracias a ti Erik pudimos aclarar la ascendencia de Bernardina Mendoza Pantoja. Esta línea incluye Ulloa y explica porque ay descendientes con el apellido Ulloa. Y también enseña descendencia de los infante (principes) de la Cerda. El Balthazar Mendoza Pantoja que mencionas es el padre de el Juan Pantoja que está casado con Catalina Medina. The Pantoja lineage is mainly made up of a mixture of Ancient Arabic, Jewish, Castilian and Aragonese nobility with some Royal lines from Castilla, León, France and England. I can trace the lineage to King Henry II and Eleanore of Aquitane. The Arabic and Jewish lines the have been Catholic for at least a couple of centuries by 1400 so they are looked upon as “old Christians” with a knowledge of these ancient roots. 2) Juan Pantoja and Elvira Alvarez Mendoza ( daughter of Alfonso Duran Mendoza and Aldonza Vasquez de Sandoval) 3) Balthazar Mendoza Panto and Leonor Ulloa De la Cerda [Balthazar Mendoza’s brother, Pedro Pantoja, was born before his parents were married and he was legitimized after the marriage. 

disproved:

4) Juan Pantoja conquistador (b. before 1502 and d. After 1577) and Catalina Medina b. Abt 1515 5) Bernardina Hurtado de Mendoza Pantoja Ulloa (b. about 1533) and Gonzalo Nuñez de Sotomayor (Bernardina’s sister María was baptized 5/January/1541 - (Sagrario Metropolitano) - Ciudad de México 6) Juana Núñez de Sotomayor( born about 1555) and Diego Ochoa de Garibay 7) Francisca Ochoa Soto. (born about1593) and married on 27/Nov/1613 to Juan de la Mora y Mendoza Notes: Domingo Medina: “ Natural de Guareña, pasó a México en 1524 y visitó de nuevo España en 1526, enviado por Hernán Cortés a ver a Su Magestad. Veamos lo que él mismo nos cuenta, muchos años después: “Que es vecino de Mechoacán y natural de Garuena (Guareña), tierra de Medellín, e hijo legítimo de Diego González Serrano e de Ana Hernández Zambrana; e que a veynte y quatro años que pasó a esta Nueva Spaña, y que fué con el Marqués en servicio de Su Magestad a Guacaquaico y Honduras, por lo qual le fué encomendado la mytad del pueblo de Taucitaro, de que al presente se sirve, ques muy pobre y de menos provecho, y después con Vuestra Señoría Ilustrísima en la húltima pacificación de la Nueva Galizia (año 1541); y ques casado y tiene hijos e una hija casada, y su casa poblada, y que fue a Spaña, por mandado del Marqués a dar rrelación a Su Magestad de la tierra, y después con el bachiller Ortega; que fué por visitador de las provincias de Mechoacán, y por Capitán de ciertos pueblos que se avían rrelevado, todo a su costa” Juan Pantoja: “Juan de Pantoja, uno de los primeros conquistadores de la Nueva España y regidor de la ciudad de Pátzcuaro hizo un informe de méritos en 1577. Varios testigos indican que es caballero hijodalgo notorio de mucha calidad y natural de Medellín. Además pasó a la Nueva España con su tío Pedro de Pantoja.” Hay tres primos del mismo nombre, Juan Pantoja. 

Red Flags

1) The Juan Pantoja that is the son of Gonzalo Pantoja and Juana Merlo is not listed in the copies of his Parent’s wills. Yet Juan Pantoja states in his will that he wants to be buried next to his mother Juana Merlo's grave. This will is not a forgery.

2) Except for Juan Pantojas, Many of The family wills are not originals, but are copies written in the 1700's, when people were fighting over inheritances from over two centuries before. But in at least one of the wills there are major errors in the family tree. This will is a fake.

3) Gonzalo Pantoja is said to have a cousin with the same name. Is this cousin the Gonzalo Pantoja that married Juana Merlo Ulloa and is the great aunt of the Juana Merlo Toledo?

4) the Gonzalo Pantoja that is married to Juana Merlo Ulloa is the one that has sons named Juan Pantoja and Pedro Pantoja.

Un ancestro de Juan Pantoja no podia resistir la idea de que le pisasen después de se muerte. El obtuvo del Rey permiso de ser enterrado en alto en la catedral de Toledo.

Rick A. Ricci

Hola Eric,

Creo que tienes razón cuando escribes:

“podría ser que quien hizo la paleografía entendió Pedro vez de D° o J° o algún otro?”.

Lo que si sabemos es que Juan Pantoja no Es hijo de Gonzalo Pantoja y Elvira Portocarrero. Gonzalo Pantoja Portocarrero Y Juana Merlo Toledo tambien no son padres de los hermanos Juan Pantoja, Pedro Pantoja, y Gonzalo Pantoja. Estos tres hermanos son Hijos de Gonzalo Pantoja y Juana Merlo Ulloa. El Gonzalo Pantoja que esta casado con Juana Merlo Ulloa Es primo del señor de Mocejon. En 1700’s cuando organizaron muchas de las actas que se habían juntado por un pleito sobre una herencia hicieron muchos errores en leer y copiar los documentos.

En la familia cercana hubo tres “Gonzalo Pantoja Portocarrero” y dos de ellos se casaron con Juana Merlo. Una Juana era Juana Merlo Ulloa y la otra era Juana Merlo Toledo, la primera tía abuela de la segunda. La segunda Juana Merlo (Merlo Toledo) era nieta del hermano de la primera Juana Merlo.(Merlo Ulloa.)

Y tambien prima de Gonzalo Pantoja Portocarrero es la abuela de Elvira Alvarez Mendoza por que ella tambien desciende de una linea de los Pantoja.

Dear Erik,

I had set aside my Pantoja research and directed my attention to other projects in the past couple of years. Your post on Bernardina’s parents and grandparents woke Up this area of research for me. I went back and pulled out my records of the ancestors of this line and looked a little deeper at my resources. I was able to discover that an ancestor of the Pantojas that genealogists had claimed was the sister of a Cardenal Archbishop of Toledo was actually his illegitimate daughter. I have also been able to trace this line all the way back to Conde Fernan Gonzalez over a thousand years ago. I was also able to connect an ancestral line of Elvira Alvarez Mendoza to her husband, Juan de Pantoja, so they are distant cousins twice through their Pantoja ancestry. The ancestral line they share is made up of eight families that intermarried over and over again over many centuries during the Muslim presence in the Iberian peninsula. These Toledan families, “linajes mozárabes de Toledo“ were Catholics, and not recent converts, but there are clear signs of Arabic and Jewish ancestries as they had ancestors that were officials that Administered the Arabic and Jewish sections of Toledo. The government of Toledo and other cities under Alfonso VII were managed with ethnic considerations. The Alvarez de Toledo family also descended from these “ ocho linajes mozárabes de Toledo.” There are many church records identifying donations by the ancestors of the Pantojas so their lineage can be tracked by the donations. The family made many large contributions of land and money to set up a monastery. There are other records of the ancestral line that show them in service of the kings and queens.

Thanks again for your big find on Bernardina’s parents. Bernardina’s parents had been the weak link in the Pantoja line.
A big hug,
Rick A. Ricci

Estimado Eric,

Te pido un gran favor, me puedes decir que dice el testamento de Juan Pantoja, el cual testó en Medellín el 14 de Noviembre de 1482, o por lo menos decirme que dice sobre su familia.

Gracias,
Rick A. Ricci

Elvira Alvarez Mendoza’s ancestors brings us back to the Rodriguez Osorio Villalobos ancestors of the Reynoso family.

Another daughter of Alfónso Durán Mendoza and Cecilia Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval by the name of Maria Sandoval married Alonso Monroy, a cousin of Gonzalo Pantoja Portocarrero.

Saludos,
Rick A. Ricci

I am not having any luck finding the wife of Domingo de Medina. I did find a son named “ Alejo Enríquez de Medina,”.
I found this online : https://valentincasco.blogspot.com/2016/11/p-margin-bottom-0.html

“DOMINGO DE MEDINA

Valentín Casco y Fernández
Investigador

Natural de Guareña, pasó a México en 1524 y visitó de nuevo España en 1526, enviado por Hernán Cortés a ver a Su Magestad.

Veamos lo que él mismo nos cuenta, muchos años después:

“Que es vecino de Mechoacán y natural de Garuena (Guareña), tierra de Medellín, e hijo legítimo de Diego González Serrano e de Ana Hernández Zambrana; e que a veynte y quatro años que pasó a esta Nueva Spaña, y que fué con el Marqués en servicio de Su Magestad a Guacaquaico y Honduras, por lo qual le fué encomendado la mytad del pueblo de Taucitaro, de que al presente se sirve, ques muy pobre y de menos provecho, y después con Vuestra Señoría Ilustrísima en la húltima pacificación de la Nueva Galizia (año 1541); y ques casado y tiene hijos e una hija casada, y su casa poblada, y que fue a Spaña, por mandado del Marqués a dar rrelación a Su Magestad de la tierra, y después con el bachiller Ortega; que fué por visitador de las provincias de Mechoacán, y por Capitán de ciertos pueblos que se avían rrelevado, todo a su costa”
Consta que era todavía vecino de la Puebla en 1547, casado y con hijos.

Pasajeros naturales de Guareña, que pasaron a las Indias.“

5)Juan Pantoja and Elvira Alvarez Mendoza (daughter of Alfónso Durán Mendoza y de Cecilia Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval.)
6)
7.) Juan Pantoja and Catalina Medina (daughter of Domingo Medina)
8.) Bernardina Mendoza Pantoja Ulloa (born about 1533) and Gonzalo Nuñez de Sotomayor
9). Juana Nuñez de Sotomayor( born about 1555) and Diego Ochoa de Garibay
10). Francisca Ochoa Soto. (born about1593) and married on 27/Nov/1613 to Juan de la Mora y Mendoza

Great find Erik,

The information of Alfón Durán y de Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval leads us to Alfónso Durán Mendoza and Cecilia Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval.

Pedro Gonzalez de Mendoza and Aldonza Lopez de Ayala are the parents of Gonzalo Duran de Mendoza. This Gonzalo and Isabel Sanchez de Badajoz are the parents of Alfonso Duran Mendoza.

Pedro Gonzalez de Mendoza and Aldonza Lopez de Ayala‘S ancestries are well documented.

Cecilia Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval is the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Sandoval

This information on the ancestry of Alfonso Duran Mendoza was from Jose Luis Ordonez’s research.

Elvira Álvarez de Mendoza Gets the “Elvira Alvarez” name from Gonzalo de Duran’s Maternal grandmother, “Elvira Alvarez”.
This maternal grandmother of Gonzalo De Duran Mendoza also was named after her grandmother “ Elvira Alvarez Osorio”

Conquistador Domingo Medina is the son of Diego González Serrano and Ana Hernández Zambrano. Domingo Medina is from Guareña, Badajoz, Estremadura.

This find also shows a common ancestor to the Temino de Velasco Banuelos Family.

Thanks again Erik for your work and for sharing,
Once again, Great Find!
Un abraso,
Rick A. Ricci

la familia Araiza tiene sus inicios debidamente documentados  en CDMX, posteriormente se traslada a Zacatecas y Aguascalientes y de allí se diversifica a otras regiones; termino mi investigación en el norte de Guanajuato.

Hello Denise,

The expression "próximo pasado" is used to refer to the immediately preceding day, week, month, or year. In your example the birth date would be 29 Jan 1911.

Un cordial saludo.

Austin Pérez

Not necessarily. It was probably just a legal formality, in case the spouse wanted to remarry. Coincidentally, I was just transcribing a marriage investigation that got snagged, because the husband was from Spain, and had been married previously, and he needed to provide proof that he was "libre de matrimonio," and had unfortunately lost a signed affidavit from his home parish, confirming his first wife's death. 

Have you found the couple's marriage record? Another way to see whether they were legitimately married is to look at the baptism/birth records, and see if it says the child was legitimate.

Saludos!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

It is inaccurate to say that some of these families were Italians only because they came from Genoa, not Italy. The country that we know as “Italy” did not exist in the 1500’s. I have done a tremendous amount of research looking for Carlo Lomelin’s ancestry. I don’t know anyone that has investigated this family as much as I have. Steven Francisco Hernandez has provided valuable puzzle pieces that support my research on Carlo Lomelin’s ancestors. Through private conversations, I have also provided Steven with information about a treasure trove of Lomelin documents that I have found proving the Genoese ancestors. I asked Steven to not disclose all of the information that I had shared with him until I published my book. Steven is also correct that Guido Lavezzari comes from another Genoese family as primary source records also identify his paternal ancestors as Genoese. Steven is also correct that the Espinoza surname was originally Spinola and that they had its origins in Genoa. The surname Lomellini went through changes as the family branches out to Spain, Portugal, and England. The Lomellini became Lomelin in Spain, Lomelino in Portugal, and a few different variations in England. Carlo Lomelin and Luis Lomelin left many descendants in Los Altos de Jalisco.   Carlo and Luis Lomelin were said by family to be brothers, but I am not sure if the Luis Lomelin in Mexico is his brother or his uncle, as his father also had an brother named Luciano (Luis) Lomelin.  Carlo (Carlos) Lomelin did have a brother named Luciano (Luis) Lomelin.   Carlo also had an uncle named Luciano (Luis) Lomelin. There were many siblings in this family. Another brother of Carlo Lomelin handled his affairs when he passed away.   The Carlos Lomelin that is my ancestor is not the same CarLo Lomellini that is the son of Porzia (Porchia). That Carlo Lomelini that is the son of Porzia is a fourth cousin. Spanish “Lomelin” surname became Lomeli in Los Altos De Jalisco, and that was just relatively recently, as my wife’s maternal grandfather stated that he originally signed his name Lomelin before his children were born. His children were the first in the family to not have the “n” at the end of the surname. There are many primary sources showing the presence of “Italians” on the Iberian Peninsula. This is a fact that is proven without much research, so I don’t know why anyone that is a researcher would deny where these families came from. In fact, parts of what we now consider Italy had closer affiliation at different times to Aragon and Castilla (which were also separate kingdoms) than some other “Italian City-States”. 
Rick A. Ricci

Estimado señor Vicente de San Miguel

Dándole por mi parte la bienvenida a este foro no puedo dejar pasar la ocasión para informarle que si la persona a que usted se refiere llamada Steven es nuestro primo (de todos los alteños) Steven Francisco Hernández, he de decirle que es un investigador serio como el que más, riguroso, generoso y exhaustivo en sus publicaciones y que puede usted tomar preferentemente cualquier publicación que él firme frente a la de prácticamente cualquier otro autor.

Por lo demás, sobre los apellidos que usted enlista podrá usted con sus propios ojos recorrer el copioso número de investigaciones que aquí están publicadas y que se han perfeccionado con la colaboración de valiosos y generosos investigadores.

Pregunta: donde puedo consultar el tema (Ordenanzas de colonización de 1573) para el tema familia de la Garza.
Gracias
Humberto Pro
frio@prodigy.net.mx

Hola Vale ,como esta? ojala que bien. Mi antepasado era Carlos Lomellini y era de genoa,Italia como era moro ? > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: castrosivicente@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:41:17 -0700> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogía de la expansión de las familias troncales que poblaron las orillas orientales y Norte de Los Altos. Segunda mitad del> > > Genealogía de la expansión de las familias troncales que poblaron las orillas orientales y Norte de Los Altos. Segunda mitad del siglo XVI.> > Se desprendían desde Guadalajara hacia Teocaltiche., de ahí hacia Jalostotitlan, Lagos, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos, Mirandilla, Valle de Guadalupe, Tepatitlán y Guadalajara de nuevo.> > De estas mismas ramas, hubo desplazamientos hacia León (familia Ulloa y Parada Aguilar), Silao, Celaya e Irapuato (familia Martín), Gto.> De Jalostotitlán, salió la familia Garza para fundar la ciudad de Monterrey, NL.> (Ordenanzas de colonización de 1573).> > TRONCOS FAMILIARES PRINCIPALES> > 1. Lomelí, Gallo, González (provenientes de Yahualica).> 2. Padilla, Reynoso.> 3. Issasi, Serrano, Sanromán, Ortiz de Parada, Hermosillo.> 4. Pérez, Franco, Padilla, Jiménez, Reynoso, González> 5. Barba, González.> > Fuente: Sociedad y conflicto en los Altos de Jalisco. Pág. 87, citado por Gtz, Gtz J.A. 1989. Colección Regiones. CONACULTA.> > Escribo esto, porque una persona de nombre Steven, asegura equivocadamente que los apellidos Lomelín, Isassi, Lavezares y Sigala, provienen de italianos que se asentaron en Los Altos, lo cual es inexacto.> Lomelín es de origen moro, asentado en Granada y Córdoba al Sur de España. Ya en 1624 un portador de este apellido era Don Pedro Lomelín.> Isassi es de origen totalmente vasco, siendo uno de sus representantes don Francisco Isassi de Olavarría.> Lavezares, proviene de la provincia de Vizcaya, donde destaca el militar Guido de Lavezares> Sigala proviene de Palma de Mallorca y su escudo consta de un águila de plata con las patas y garras puestas hacia arriba en situación de ataque.> > Saludos, Vicente de San Miguel.> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Introducing Live Search cashback . It's search that pays you back!
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I’m sure you probably know that some IMs for Cienega de Mata during the late 1600s can be found in the Asuncion de Maria parish in Aguascalientes? If not, I see several Luna’s - all of them Indios, including an IM for Don Cristobal HL de Don Cristobal cc Beatriz Ynes. George Fulton indexed those IMs years ago, and uploaded them to the reference files here at NR. The filmrolls have since been rearranged, but the roll numbers remain the same, you’ll just have to go by the dates. You can download the PDFs here: https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18014

Also, Encinillas was historically in the parish of San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. While there are records for Indian baptisms dating back to the late 1600s, they are well-indexed and easily found. But the IMs go back to 1650, so try digging around in that film roll. Perhaps there’s a marriage in there, and sometimes you can find ancestors appears as testigos.

I had also indexed sacramental records done in San Matias, 1613-1647, but I just checked them, and I see no Luna’s. But if you want to check, the pdf can be downloaded here: https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24112

Good luck!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

I doubt that John P. Schmal covered the specifics of your question but I haven't read everything he has written. Might be worth a search

Hola Travis!

I know that the settler colonial records refer only to Indigenous peoples as "Indios" but this is a very offensive term for many Indigenous peoples or personas Indigenas o de pueblos originarios. Also, Indigenous law experts use the capital I for Indigenous. As we know better, we can do better. May I please ask that you refrain from using the term, "Indio" unless you are citing the language listed in a colonial record. As a person of Indigenous descent on my mother's side (Mexico) and my father's said (Cherokee), I would appreciate it if this space doesn't use offensive terminology when speaking about us. Thank you!  

Joseph,

Sounds like a pretty cool site.   Another one that is not as sophisticated, but works for me is: Transkribus

I have some very old Latin documents from England that are pretty much unreadable to me (from the 1550's).  With Transkribus, you drop your document onto their online folder, and it begins scanning (multiple passes).  When the scans have been completed, it offers you the choice of copying the transcribed document to a .PDF, .DOC, or Clipboard (as plain text).  The document scans are fairly quick, usually within a few minutes.

The thing is, once transcribed, you need to go to another free app, like "Google Translate", and convert the Latin transcription to a language you may need, in my case just plain ole English.  It is hit and miss on accuracy, but for me "something" is better then nothing (in most cases).

I only use the free version (apparently 50 free scans per month), but apparently the paid version can clean these documents up even further.

Hopefully this technology (AI) can continue to advance document interpretation, which is a major block for some researchers (such as myself) when getting back beyond the 1600's.

Lee

Hello! 

Do you have more information about Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas? Maybe he is related to Juan Pérez, AKA Juan de Santoyo, (born about 1624, probably in Lagos, possibly son of Diego Pérez and an unknown daughter of María Rubio)? 

The 1669 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos lists Gerónima de Ornelas, viuda, living in the household of Juan Pérez with his widow, Antonia de Villegas, AKA Antonia de Mendoza, and his children Antonio, Angelina and Ysidro (children of Juan and Antonia go by surnames of Santoyo, Pérez, Mendoza and Villegas).

Este mensaje se trata de Marcos Macias Valadez y María Ruiz de Esparza

Por un indice que publicó Claudia Casillas encontré a una dispensa de
cuarto grado de consanguinidad de Alejandro Macias Valadez Gutiérrez
originario del Río de Santa María y vecino de Aguascalientes en el Sauz de
los Macias con Leonor López Infante y Valdés originario y vecina de la
Mololoa. Dice que Alejandro es hijo de Juan Macias Valades y de María
Gutiérrez y que Juan es hijo de María Ruiz y que Maria Ruiz es hija de
Mariana González de Rubalcava. Bautizaron a Alejandro el 10 de Abril de
1713 en San Juan de los Lagos. Bautizaron a Juan el 20 de abril 1681 en
Lagos de Moreno y murió el 1 de septiembre de 1740 en Aguas. No he
encontrado mas datos documentados sobre la linea directa de Alejandro hasta
Mariana González de Rubalcava. Según la dispensa fue hermana de Leonor
González de Rubalcava que sabemos por otras comunicaciones que hemos tenido
que fue hija Juan González de Rubalcava y de María López y que Leonor tuvo
a Inés Pérez que casó con Basilio Valdés y tuvieron a Inés Baldés. Se que
Inés casó con Nicolás López de Aguirre e Infante de Villegas quienes
tuvieron a Leonor López Infante y Valdés, la pretensa.
La dispensa se encuentra en
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-63357-9?cc=1874591&wc=…

Yo suponía que la antesmencionada Maria Ruiz iba a ser la que casó con
Marcos Macias Valadez pero esos datos no van de acuerdo con los que se
encuentran en Retoños de España según la página
http://historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/macias.html que dice que
la esposa de Marcos Macias Valadez y de Orán y Vega fue hija de Nicolás de
Ulloa y de doña María Ruiz de Esparza. Según varios mensajes en NR esta
María Ruiz de Esparza fue hija de Lope Ruiz de Esparza y de Francisca Gabay
de Moctezuma.

¿Si el Juan Macias Valadez y Ruiz de la dispensa no fue hijo de Marcos
Macias Valadez entonces de quien podría haber sido hijo? ¿Que fuente haya
usado Mariano González Leal para tener a los padres de Maria Ruiz de
Esparza?

Daniel, has mencionado que María Ruiz de Esparza la hija Nicolás Márquez de
Ulloa y Maria Ruiz de Esparza casó con alguien que no fue Marcos Macias
Valadez. ¿Quien fue esa persona?

Saludos
Armando

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:46 PM, wrote:

> Estimado compañeros:
>
> Alguien tiene mayor información sobre las siguientes personas? Todos
> casados en Aguascalientes y el último deberia ser en Lagos de Moreno o
> Teocaltiche.
>
> María Ruiz de Esparza casada con Nicolás de Castro el 14 de mayo de 1673
> María Ruiz de Esparza casada con Marcos Macías Valadés ca. 1670
>
> María Ruiz de Esparza casada con Nicolás González el 22 de diciembre de
> 1659
>
> Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas, mi décimo bisabuelo casado Leonor González de
> Ruvalcaba hija de Juan González de Ruvalcaba y Leonor Franco de Paredes. No
> sé si este Ornelas es pariente de la misma familia quien se asentó en Los
> Altos, pero solo he visto algunas personas con el apellido Pérez de
> Ornelas, no sé su origen.
>
> Gracias,
> Daniel Méndez Camino
>

Daniel,
Yo tengo a Marcos Macias Valades, hijo de Alonso Macias Valades y de Ursula Alvarez casado con Maria Ruiz Esparza (de Ulloa) hija de Nicolas de Ulloa y Maria Ruiz Esparza. Sin embargo, por alguna razon no encuentro la fuente de estos datos.

Jaime Alvarado