Nuestros Ranchos Site

Decided to start a new thread on this: 

in an earlier post, Daniel Méndez Camino said: 

"Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas, my tenth great-grandfather, married Leonor González de Ruvalcaba, daughter of Juan González de Ruvalcaba and Leonor Franco de Paredes. I don't know if this Ornelas is related to the same family that settled in Los Altos, but I've only seen a few people with the surname Pérez de Ornelas; I don't know its origin."

My ancestor, Juan Pérez, AKA Juan de Santoyo, born about (or before) 1624 (probably in Lagos), had a probable relative named Gerónima de Ornelas. 

Listed in Juan's household in the 1669 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos is Gerónima de Ornelas, Viuda, living with Juan's widow, Antonia de Villegas, AKA Antonia de Mendoza, and their children (all of Juan and Antonia's known and suspected children assumed surnames of Santoyo, Pérez, Villegas and/or Mendoza).

I have no idea how Gerónima de Ornelas is related to Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo). Sister? Mother? Daughter? Daughter-in-law?

The order in which she is listed in the household infers she is not a servant but a relative. 

But i cannot help but think there may be a connection between my ancestor Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo) and Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas (who is also my ancestor thru his daughter Inés).

At least 2 of Juan's grandchildren were named Sebastián.

I read another post earlier this week that stated an unknown daughter of María Rubio and Diego Pérez (died late 1620's) had a son named "Juan Pérez." Could this son be the same person as my ancestor, Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo), who was probably born mid 1620s (about 1624)?

Any thoughts, advice or theories are welcome. 

Thank you. 

Best regards,

Travis

This is going to sound like a paid advertisement so delete right now if it gives any of you that type of flavor. I've heard that AI can assist with genealogical research and I think it really can. Now the example I've listed below was for a very simple transcription/translation but the possibilities are there. Also there is a free version but I'm used the $49/year version which gives you a limit on usage per day almost double the free version but it also gives you access to the more advanced ai versions. Basically I went to Poe.com and subscribed to the "starter" version which gives you 10,000 points to use per day (use or lose). I've understood that the below example only used a small amount of points but just use the free version for simple examples. I simply asked it to translate the uploaded document (attached below) into English and preserve the original spellings of names and got the below. For us beginners who have limited Spanish this might be the or one of the tools to use:

Translate this into English and preserve original spellings of names. 

9:44 AM Claude-Opus-4.6 Thinking... Let me carefully transcribe and translate this Mexican Catholic baptismal record from the early 19th century. Let me read through the handwritten Spanish text:

 "En la Yglesia de Santa Maria a dies y nuebe de Henero de mil ochocientos onze. Yoel Presbitero D. Jose Thadeo Suares, Bautize solemnemente a Maria Guadalupe Española de Guacasso de quince dias de nacida en lunes. hija Legitima de Pedro Flores, y Maria Josefa Tamires, Abuelos Paternos Jose Flores, y Maria Ynes. Maternos Diego Ram[ire]z y Maria Luiza. Padrinos Dionicio Marquez y Maria Rafaela Aguiñes adverti su obligacion y parentesco Espiritual y para que conste lo firme con el Snr.

I'm seeing the signatures at the bottom—Cayetano de Ybarra and Dhé Thadeo Juarez—but let me re-examine the text more carefully since some of the handwriting is difficult to parse. Looking back at the opening, it appears the location might be Guadalajara rather than what I initially read, and I need to verify the exact spelling of some of the family names and dates. I'm parsing through this baptism record from 1811 in the Church of Santa Maria, identifying the key details: the priest Jose Thadeo Suares performed the ceremony for Maria Guadalupe, noting her racial designation as "Española" and her parents Pedro Flores and Maria Josefa Tamires, along with the godparents and their spiritual obligations. I'm realizing the "Guada" is likely just a line break interrupting a word, probably part of the year or an abbreviation rather than "Guadalajara." Given the citation references Santa María de los Angeles, the church name is already established, so I should focus on parsing the date itself—it appears to read January 19, 1811, with the text continuing across lines in a way that's fragmenting my initial reading. I'm second-guessing the line breaks and trying to parse where "Guadalajara" fits in—it could be a location reference in the margin or woven into the text itself. Looking more carefully at the structure, I think the date spans across lines, with the year "mil ochocientos onze" appearing on the second line, and the priest's name "Jose Thadeo Suarez" continuing from there. The margin notes seem to reference "Española" and "Guacasco," though I'm wondering if "Guadalajara" might actually be the parish location rather than what I initially thought.

Now I'm reconstructing the full baptism record—it appears to document the baptism of Maria Guadalupe on January 19, 1811, performed by Priest Jose Thadeo Suarez, with details about her parents, grandparents, and godparents, followed by signatures from the priest and the parish official. The second signature might read "José Thadeo Suarez" rather than what I initially parsed, and I'm working through the translation to capture the formal ecclesiastical language accurately. I'm working through the uncertain readings in this baptismal record—the mother's surname could be Ramirez rather than Tamires, and I need to verify the godparents' names more carefully, particularly whether the godfather is Marquez or something similar, and whether the godmother's surname is Aguiñes or Aquines. The signature at the end also needs clarification—it looks like it could be either Juarez or Suarez for the second signer.

Translation In the Church of Santa Maria, on the nineteenth of January of one thousand eight hundred and eleven [January 19, 1811], I, the Priest D. Jose Thadeo Suares, solemnly baptized Maria Guadalupe, Española [Spanish], from Guacasso, fifteen days old, born on a Monday, legitimate daughter of Pedro Flores and Maria Josefa Tamires. Paternal grandparents: Jose Flores and Maria Ynes. Maternal [grandparents]: Diego Ram[irez] and Maria Luiza. Godparents: Dionicio Marquez and Maria Rafaela Aguiñes. I advised them of their obligation and spiritual kinship, and so that it may be recorded, I signed it with the Señor Cura [parish priest]. [Signed] Cayetano de Ybarra — Jhé Thadeo Suarez ________________________________________ Notes: • "Española" refers to the colonial-era caste/racial classification indicating Spanish descent. • "Guacasso" appears to be the locality or rancho of origin. • The marginal annotations on the left read "Española" and "Guacasso." • The parish is Santa María de los Angeles, Jalisco, per the citation. 9:44 AM

Estimado compañeros:

Alguien tiene mayor información sobre las siguientes personas? Todos casados en Aguascalientes y el último deberia ser en Lagos de Moreno o Teocaltiche.

María Ruiz de Esparza casada con Nicolás de Castro el 14 de mayo de 1673

María Ruiz de Esparza casada con Marcos Macías Valadés ca. 1670

María Ruiz de Esparza casada con Nicolás González el 22 de diciembre de 1659

Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas, mi décimo bisabuelo casado Leonor González de Ruvalcaba hija de Juan González de Ruvalcaba y Leonor Franco de Paredes. No sé si este Ornelas es pariente de la misma familia quien se asentó en Los Altos, pero solo he visto algunas personas con el apellido Pérez de Ornelas, no sé su origen.

Gracias,
Daniel Méndez Camino

Many years ago I was extremely happy to locate a Guadalajara Marriage Dispensa for my direct ancestors Pedro de Santiago Rubio and his marriage with Marcelina Navarrete year 1715 in Guachinango. The record answered many questions however I have not advanced past the Dispensa. I have looked everywhere, and have followed the guidance of many over the years but still nothing new to advance me past the year 1715 record.  

I'm searching for information for Francisco de Santiago and his wife Barbara Rubio.  I have absolutely no information for them other than they were the parents of Pedro de Santiago Rubio as indicated on the dispensa.  I believe Barbara Rubio was living in Mascota before living in Guachinango.  I don't know when and where she married Francisco de Santiago. I estimate that Barbara Rubio was born approximately year 1665. And my best estimates are that Francisco de Santiago may be originally from Guachinango/Amatlan/Tepuzhuacan and born approximately year 1665.

Thank you community for your assistance.

Saludos,

Andy Rubio

When I read, some time ago, that virtually all families with roots in our area of interest are descendants of "Capitanes" Diego Romo de Vivar and Lope Ruis de Esparza, I thought probably that was not my case because at that time I was under the impresion that most of my father's ancestry was from Jerez and Guadalupe (Zacatecas) and my mother's mostly from Guanajuato and as far as I was aware then no Romo nor Ruiz Esparza have come out in my research. Well, I was dead wrong! obviously my research was very weak then, but as years passed and my research skill developed I came to the conclusion that on my father's family with the excepción of the Cabral main line that comes from my father's father and great grand father, on many of my father's mother's side I was overwhelmed when I discovered so many lines that joined those two families, all of them in Rincón de Romos which looks like a cradle. I tend to think that my case is by no means exceptional but mostly very common (am I right?). For instance, on the Ruiz de Esparza y Navarro family, I discovered I am direct descendant of Lorenzo, Martín, María, Salvador and Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza y Navarro, and to Jacinto I have a couple of lines that merge with him. On the Romo de Vivar family things are quite similar, multiple lines end there in Diego Romo de Vivar. Clearly, most of both names come together multiple times in my family. It is so because my ancestors ("sosa" numbers)18, 19, 21, 23 and also 33 have this multiple lines. When more carefully looking at those two families in the family search trees I see why it is said we all are part of that families at some point: they are prolific. Surely not everybody have discovered the links or maybe have non. But even so, since we all have many other lines in our are, clearly we all are "primos".

Hello everyone! I’m very excited to be part of this group and am hoping for assistance in researching my family history.

I am searching for information about my grandfather, who lived and passed away in Los Angeles, California, in 1994. He lived under a different name in the United States, but I have some details about his family of origin in Mexico. His parents were Demetria Gomez and Celestino Martinez from Villa Obregón, Cañadas de Obregón, Mexico. I believe his birth name may have been Ventura Gomez Martinez, although this has not been officially confirmed. He also had a brother named Maximino Martinez. I knew Maximino and his family, but they are not aware of the earlier family history.

I have come across several family surnames in my research, including Martin, Martinez, Barajas, Gomez, and Reynosa. While I have found information on other members of the family, I have located only one record connected to Ventura Martinez.

I am hoping to connect with long-lost relatives or anyone who may have additional information. Any guidance or insight would be greatly appreciated.

All,

Over the past week or so, the NuestrosRanchos server has been experiencing unexpected performance issues, including unexpected server shutdowns. The issue has been tracked to hardware issues with the Virtual Private Server (VPS) vendor.  The vendor has just moved this server to another area of their system, which should eliminate the recent performance problems. Our admin staff will continue to monitor the system to ensure the performance issues have been resolved.  

Admin staff

Hello everyone, my name is Alejandra Araujo. I have done a ton of research on most branches of my family history. Currently, I would like to ask if anyone has any further information on the Araujo family around southern Zacatecas in Griegos, Luis Moya, and Ojocaliente. They seemed to marry with the Oballe family which has all kinds of different spellings (Obaye/Ubaye/Ovalle/Uvalle). Here is the farthest back I've been able to go through the Araujo branch:

NARCISO ARAUJO born abt. 1800 married to CANDELARIA LOPEZ HERNANDEZ born abt. 1805

Children of NARCISO ARAUJO and CANDELARIA LOPEZ HERNANDEZ:

i. MARIA DOLORES ARAUJO born abt. 1825
ii. JOSE LEANDRO born in 1829
iii. MIGUEL ARAUJO born abt. 1835
iv. ROSALIO ARAUJO born abt. 1840

ROSALIO ARAUJO born abt. 1840 married to FRANCISCA OBALLE born abt. 1830

Children of ROSALIO ARAUJO and FRANCISCA OBALLE:

i. JUAN ARAUJO born abt. 1851
ii. CATARINO ARAUJO born abt. 1858
iii. HIPOLITA ARAUJO born abt. 1861

CATARINO ARAUJO born abt. 1858 in Griegos, Zacatecas married ROMULA MEZA on 3 June 1877 in Ojocalientes, Zacatecas. ROMULA MEZA was born abt. 1861.

Children of CATARINO ARAUJO and ROMULA MEZA:

i. JULIANA ARAUJO born on 20 December 1880 in Luis Moya, Zacatecas
ii. PLUTARCA ARAUJO born on 27 June 1882 in Ojocaliente, Zacatecas
iii. FRANCISCO ARAUJO born abt. 1885, died in 1888
iv. FERNANDO ARAUJO born on 30 May 1888 in Griegos, Zacatecas
v. FAUSTINO ARAUJO born and died in 1890
vi. AGAPITA ARAUJO born on 20 September 1891 in Luis Moya, Zacatecas

I hit a dead end once I get to Narciso and Candelaria. If anyone has any info on them, please do share. I look forward to working with you all on here.

Sincerely,

Alejandra Araujo

https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/dalejandra

^Here is info I have of the Castros in Jalisco and Aguascalientes.

One of our brick walls is Manuel de Lizalde. He is in my tree on Ancestry at https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/27355561/person/2049287080/facts The surname has many variant spellings: Lisalde, Lisarde, Lizarde, Elizalde (which is the actual original name in Basque) - with and without the "de".

The earliest record for him is his 19 Feb 1697 marriage at Cuquio, Jalisco, with Maria de Robalcava. It shows his mother are Cathalina de Carbaxal but does not show his father. The m,arriage record is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-52689-9 

While his records are at the church in Cuquio, they actually lived south of Yahualica at los Ranchos de Apozol. So, Cuquio was not where they actually lived and is well south of where they lived.

I went page by page through all the Cuquio baptisms from about 1680 back to about 1660, and he was not among those baptisms.

I am working my way back through the Nochistlan baptisms now but have not yet found him, although there is a good way yet to go.

Does anyone have solid records for him before the 1697 marriage? Is there any record that names his father?

 

Buenos días.

Estoy trabajando actualmente en un libro sobre los Sotelo debido a que tengo la correcta filiación de Diego Arias de Sotelo gracias a unos documentos no digitalizados de la Real Chancillería de Valladolid que permiten recrear el cuadro familiar.

Es de conocimiento general que Diego Arias de Sotelo fue hijo de Antonio de Sotelo y de Uzenda Núñez Vela pero en varios sitios se confunde a su padre Antonio con el conquistador de mismo nombre y apellido que falleció en 1548 en las Indias.

El padre de Diego Arias de Sotelo fue el capitán Antonio de Sotelo que es descrito como hidalgo principal de San Miguel de la Ribera y hermano del bachiller Luis de Sotelo, vecino de Zamora y alcalde mayor del conde de Alba de Liste, y del capitán Andrés de Sotelo -alcalde de la Santa Hermandad- que casó con Guiomar de Herrezuelo, vecinos de Aldea del Palo. (Uno de los hermanos de Diego Arias de Sotelo se llamó Andrés, me refiero al capitán Andrés Núñez Vela de Sotelo, nombrado así por su tío).

Los abuelos de Diego Arias de Sotelo se llamaron Diego de Sotelo "el viejo" y Juana. Este último Diego de Sotelo fue "hidalgo de buena casta" y estaba presente en las juntas de hidalgos de la iglesia de Santa María la Nueva. Esta rama es la correcta.

El conquistador fue hijo de Pedro de Sotelo y de Inés de Cisneros quien era nieto a su vez de Lope de Sotelo. Esta rama no le corresponde a Diego Arias de Sotelo.

Diego de Sotelo "el viejo" fue hermano de Lope de Sotelo y ambos eran hijos de Luis de Sotelo -alcaide de Torrelobatón- e Isabel. Es decir, Pedro de Sotelo casado con Isabel de Cisneros, era primo hermano de Antonio de Sotelo casado con Uzenda Núñez Vela.

Espero terminar pronto para poner a disposición esta información encontrada con los árboles genealógicos correspondientes y que aclara muchas cosas de los Sotelo.

Un saludo,

Erik Andrés Reynoso.

Some information in a marriage record was posted on http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/22981?page=2. Could this Diego Hurtado de Mendoza and Maria Lerma be related to Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza?

Rick A Ricci

At this point, our family is descended from almost every child of Simon Báez (c1630-1659) and Maria de la Cerda (c1633-aft1690).

Our most recently discovered Báez ancestor is Ignacio Báez de la Cerna:

1st generation - Ignacio Báez de la Cerna (c1658-????) cc Juana Gutiérrez de Mendoza (c1661-????)

2nd generation - and then Ignacio and Juana's son, Francisco Báez (c1680-1702) cc  24 Aug 1701 to Catalina/Catharina de Salazer alias Beloso/Veloso, daughter of Antonio Beloso de Sotomayor and Teresa de Salazar, all Espanoles.

But who is Teresa de Salazar?

Happy New Year To All!,

Did we ever get to the bottom of the origin of Francisco Magdaleno/Madaleno cc Elvira de Mendoza? If not, I may have found another clue in the recently released treasure trove of the Morelia archives:

Petricion de Gonzalo Fernandez de Abrego para recibir herencia de su madre - Beatriz de Talavera. (Morelia - 1602)

In this petition we find out that Gonzalo is the son of Andres Fernandez de Abrego cc Beatriz de Talavera. Furthermore, we have testimony from a couple of interesting witnesses: Francisco Magdaleno, who declares that he's the uncle of Gonzalo. This given that Gonzalo is the son of his sister Beatriz de Talavera!. Furthermore, we have another testimony from Geronimo Magdaleno de Mendoza who testifies that he's a "primo hermano" to Gonzalo. This would be the same Geronimo who was the son of Francisco cc Elvira de Mendoza. 

I think this is a very interesting clue into the origins of the Magdalenos/Madalenos of Michoacan and Jalisco. In looking for more clues on Beatriz de Talavera, I found mentions of her being married to a Lic. Pedro de Villafranca, I assume before/after her marriage to Andres Fernandez de Abrego? Does anyone have any additional clues on Beatriz de Talavera or the Magdalenos for that matter? 

Thank You,

Daniel Serna Valencia

Hello and Happy New Year!

I have a question: when someone is called "criollo" in colonial records it usually implies they are born in Mexico from two Spanish parents, correct?

Is this a hard rule? Why would someone be called both mestizo and criollo in the same record? Because he is the son of one parent who was born in Spain, perhaps?

Cristóbal de Santoyo alias Pérez, "mestiso soltero i criollo," probable, but unproven, son of Juan de Santoyo alias Pérez (possibly Spanish) and Antonia de Villegas alias Mendoza (noted as mestiza in multiple sources), both of Lagos. Cristóbal de Santoyo alias Pérez married June 1, 1668 to Ana Burgeño, daughter of Ysidro de Araujo and Beatris Burgeño alias López, in Santa Maria de los Lagos.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5RG-Y

My Spanish isn't proficient enough to understand the entire record - especially the notation in the margin. Would someone please look at it and translate or explain the record for me. This could be a game-changer for our tree. Cristobal's probable parents are our ancestors several times over - we are descended from many of the grandchildren of Juan de Santoyo alias Pérez and Antonia de Villegas alias Mendoza.

Thank you,

Travis

A few years back the website was a crossroads and the future looked dim. The site was down and Rosalinda Ruiz took the bull by the horns and organized the Nuestros Ranchos WorkGroup (Many thanks Rosalinda). Via that group a small group of individuals formed the Tech Group: Lee, Rosalinda, Wesley, Arturo and I but above and beyond the Tech Group was spearheaded by our Elite Webmaster Lee Ingram (Muchisimas!!!). Anyway as a result of the larger Workgroup a fund raising effort was started and with the help of 26 members a total of $776.24 was collected. Since 2021 when the site was revived Lee Ingram has been working tirelessly to get the site up and keep it up to date. During that time Lee had certain expenses with the work and just recently I was able to reimburse him for out of pocket monies spent and to pay forward for the webhosting and domain registration (Lee could explain it better). Anyway this email is to say that the approximate $800 was well spent for the past 4 years as well as covering out of pocket monies through approximately February 2031. If you get a chance to thank Lee please feel free to overwhelm him. Thanks go as well to our past Webmaster who for years carried the group on his shoulder, Arturo!

Now it might seem like 2031 is 6 years away (well it is and 6 years will go by in a flash). We currently have approximately 1000 members. Imagine if each one chipped in $1. Please don’t send me money as the Workgroup needs to do some work on WHERE future fund raising money should go. Maybe we need an elected Treasurer. I’m not sure how that works, we’ll see. Just wanted you all to think about the future of the NR group. For now we’re good but the future is well coming soon

Joseph Puentes

¡Saludos a todos! Me llamo Jonathan Mendoza y soy servidor de todos ustedes me apasiona la búsqueda de los antepasados personalmente mi meta es descubrir mi pasado judio sefardi y saber de que parte de españa vinieron mis antepasados de apellido ruiz de los cobos 

He llegado hasta este punto a base de documentos y de la ayuda que me han brindado unos buenos familiares y amigos mios que menciono por nombre (Jesus Mendoza y Aaron Mendoza) ellos y su servidor tenemos los mismos antepasados en comun sigo en la búsqueda de mas documentos que revelen otros detalles aunque se ha vuelto mas difícil entre mas retrocedo en el tiempo 

En cualquier caso sigo adelante y si en algo puedo ayudarles con todo gusto lo haré muchas gracias por haberme aceptado 

https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/JonathanMendoza1998

Following the hypothesis that Isabel de Mendoza, wife of Toribio Hernández de Arellano, was a native (chichimeca?), I would like to leave this note for the benefit of future research. 

The proposition of a native origin for Isabel de Mendoza is not new, it predates the publication of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia. This possibility was suggested by Mariano González-Leal during a private dinner at his house, years before Retoños was published. It is crucial to emphasize that this remains a speculative theory and no proof has been found. It is based on the following:

1. Strategic. A marital alliance between a spaniard like the mayor Toribio Hernández de Arellano and an indigenous woman, particularly one of cacique lineage, would have been a strategic asset in the region of Santa María de los Lagos. This area was situated on a volatile frontier (frontera de chichimecas), and such unions could have been a method of securing alliances with indios amigos or indios de paz, thereby stabilizing a notoriously dangerous territory.
2. Onomastic evidence. The surname "de Mendoza" was conferred upon several caciques and their family members during the viceroyalty of Don Antonio de Mendoza (1535-1550). Isabel de Mendoza's estimated birth date falls within this period, and Viceroy Mendoza was physically present in Nueva Galicia in 1542, a plausible context for her baptism and the bestowal of the surname.

An alternative, though chronologically-challenging hypothesis must also be acknowledged. My dear friend, the Mexican diplomat Jorge A. Fuentes Méndez—to whom, along with Guillermo Tovar de Teresa and Mariano González-Leal, I owe my early training in genealogy decades ago—provided me an extensive list of documented Mendozas from the period. This list included the family of Francisco de Mendoza (son of Comendador Diego de Mendoza and Isabel Segura) and his wife Beatriz de Montoya. This family, including their children Pedro de Mendoza, Isabel de Mendoza, Leonor de Montoya, and Juana Ruiz, emigrated to New Spain in 1536 (Archivo General de Indias, CONTRATACION, 5536, L.4, F.38R(5)) PARES | Archivos Españoles. The fate of this particular Isabel de Mendoza is unknown, and she remains a candidate. However, a significant chronological issue exists, as she was likely born around 1530 or earlier.

Best regards.

Erik Andrés Reynoso y Márquez.

Hola primos y primas,

In my lines I have Diego Delgado and Isabel de Islas Martinez Lozano, married 22 Feb 1637 in Aguascalientes. She was daughter of Cristobal Martinez Lozano and Maria de Islas. They’d live on Pendencia in Sierra de Pinos, I have them with four offspring:

1. Baltasar Delgado, m. Petronila Niño
2. Maria de Islas, m. Diego de Guzman y Rivera
3. Juan Delgado, m. Anna Gonzalez de Rubalcava
4. Francisco Delgado, m1. Petra Martin Chavez, m2. Juana Delgado y Valenzuela.

Diego Delgado died sometime before 1671, probably in Pinos, and Isabel de Islas Martinez Lozano died in Charcas, SLP, and was buried 16 Jul 1676. Her albaceas were her son, Baltasar and Juan, both who lived in Charcas.

I know Diego Delgado had an older brother named Juan Delgado, who also lived on Pendencia, born around 1604-1607.

Question: are they sons of Diego Delgado and Juana Diaz? Their son, Juan Delgado (m1. Juana Rivera, m2. Maria de Vargas), would have been the same age as Diego Delgado’s older brother. (whose signature I have, but none appears on Juan Delgado-Diaz's 1669 dispensa, to compare).

Anyone know anything?

Gracias y saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Good morning,

I figured as a new recent member I could pose my first question (many more to follow haha) and be hopeful that someone can shed some light on a roadblock.

My inquiry involves my ancestors Pedro Muñoz and Maria Gonzales, married in 1672 in Lagos de Moreno. Unfortunately the matrimonio record does not list the pretensos parents names nor have I ever encounter the información matrimonial.

I have located the baptisms of 7 children.

After letting this line sit for a while I went on familysearch where individuals have designated
-Pedro Muñoz as the son of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez and Ana Josefa Gómez de Portugal

Maria Gonzales as the daughter of Francisco Gonzales de Hermosillo and Francisca de Torres

This baffles me, since I can only draw 2 conclusions to connect Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez as Pedro’s father
1. The madrina of Pedro and Maria’s son Miguel (born 1683) was Mariana Muñoz (well documented daughter of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez)
2. Some of Pedro’s grandchildren (children of his sons) are listed with the full surname of “Muñoz de Jerez”

I however can draw other conclusions why it may not be true since
1. Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez and Ana Josefa Gómes de Portugal were married in Sept 1658 - this tree on family search has no sources but claims Pedro was born 1660, meaning he would be around 12 years old marrying in 1672 (although could work, since their first child was born 3 years later in 1675, he would be ~15)
2. My Pedro Muñoz, Maria Gonzales, and all the children were documented as “mestizos” when clearly Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez and Ana Josefa are always listed as “españoles” (although Pedro’s grandchildren -the ones who all began utilizing Muñoz de Jerez” are all listed as “españoles”

The 1669 padrón for Lagos does not show any household of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez (which I have documental evidence that his family were residents of León, Guanajuato around this time period)

The 1676 padrón for Lagos the household of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez is present -sans any Pedro in the household- but is of essentially no help since by 1676 Pedro is already married with a child.

I suppose has anyone ever come across any other documental proof of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez having a son named Pedro? Perhaps a will/testimony? Any land grants? Anything essentially with mentioning of children or possessions. Or is my Pedro not even of this family.

I took the initiative to message the profile that posted this ancestry and the user didn’t address nothing other than the fact that he was banned from genealogical groups and went on a rant about how everyone disputes his information, how unfairly he is treated blah blah blah.

In any event this line intrigues me greatly since Pedro and Maria are twice my ancestors. And is also of great interest since many of my ancestors for multi generations on other lines were part of the Muñoz de Jerez family’s ownership.

Any help or guidance is appreciated

Greetings,

A recent forum topic (separate thread) that was sorting out the various Christoval Lozano's prompted me to revisit the parentage of Juana Lozano, who was married to Diego Reynoso y Renteria.

Christoval Reynoso y Renteria was a son of Diego Reynoso y Renteria and Juana Lozano.  Christoval Reynoso y Renteria did leave marriage information in both his marriages, the first in 1735 (to Gertrudis Flores de la Torre, and the last in 1741 (to Anna Maria Gonzalez de Rubalcava).  

In his 1741 marriage to Anna Maria Gonzalez de Rubalcava he was noted as the widow of Gertrudis Flores de la Torre. It was also noted in this record that he was the son of Diego de Reynoso and Juana Lozano. The 1741 marriage information record (Mezquital del Oro) provided the relations between earlier Rubalcava family members (Matias and Joseph Rubalcava),  which are all noted at the following record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15212-19282-45?cc=1804458

Besides the 2nd marriage information listed above, it was also known that Christoval Reynoso y Renteria and Maria Gertrudis Flores de la Torre were dispensed in 1735, as shown in the index at the following record:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9S9-WZ1R?cc=1937239

The issue with the 1735 marriage dispensation was that it could not be found. This was "partially solved".

Christoval Reynoso's mother (Juana Lozano y Flores de la Torre) had always been a mystery until recently, when her parentage was revealed in misfiled tronco's found in a December 1734 Monclova (Coahuila) marriage dispensation record for Juan Menchaca and Maria Sapopa Flores y Valdes. 

This is still not a complete marriage dispensation, but to Juchipila area researchers, the misfiled tronco's provide the parentage of Juana Lozano y Flores de la Torre, and hopefully can fill in a few gaps to the the Juchipila based Christoval Lozano family.

The tronco's are as follows:

Tronco 1:
Cathalina Moscoso Sandoval and Maria Moscoso Sandoval were sisters.
Maria Moscoso Sandoval was the mother of Christoval Lozano, who was the father of Juana Lozano, who was the mother of Christoval Reynoso y Renteria (groom).
Cathalina Moscoso Sandoval was the mother of Josefa (Gonzalez) Rubalcava, who was the mother of Nicolas Flores de la Torre, who was the father of Maria Gertrudis de la Torre (bride)
-
Tronco 2:
Nicolas Flores de la Torre and Josepha Flores de la Torre were brother/sister.
Nicolas Flores de la Torre was the father of Nicolas Flores, who was the father of Maria Gertrudis Flores de la Torre (bride)
Josepha Flores de la Torre was the mother of Juana Lozano, who was the mother of Christoval Reynoso y Renteria (groom).

The tronco's are listed at the following link:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6X9G-77?cc=1874591

Regards,

Lee

Hola primos y primas,

I descend from Juan Diaz de Leon “El Viejo” and Francisca de Ortega, through their son, Juan Diaz de Leon “El Mozo,” and his marriage to Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor. From them, I descend from 2 sons: Jacinto Diaz, m. Sebastiana Gil, and Joseph Diaz, m. Antonia Delgadillo, the 2 lines reconnecting with the marriage of their grandchildren, Andres Diaz de Leon-Duron and Maria Estefania Carrillo-Diaz de Leon.

Recently, I came upon some notary records, which might establish when this family first settled in Sierra de Pinos. I thought I might share them here, for review and discussion.

First, though I have later generations well-documented, I don’t have a hard fix on the first. According to Don Jaime Holcombe, in his Varias Cartas (p. 171), Juan Diaz de Leon and Francisco Ortega had seven offspring:

a. Maria de Ortega, m. Hernan Perez de Mojica. With issue.
b. Pedro Diaz de Leon, b. 1615-1619. Testigo on various IM’s in Pinos, possibly married to Josefa de Santiago, with issue.
c. Juan Diaz de Leon “El Mozo”, m. Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor, md 17 Aug 1648, Pinos. With issue.
d. Antonio Diaz de Leon, b. 26 May 1621, Pinos. (Holcombe)
e. Antonia Diaz de Leon. (Holcombe)
f. Luis Diaz de Leon. (Holcombe)
g. Joseph Diaz de Leon, b. 13 Jun 1630, Pinos (Holcombe); was a testigo 21 Dec 1648, age 20.

I’ve only found records for four (a, b, c & g); would anybody have anything else on this family group?

BIRTH OF JUAN DIAZ DE LEON EL VIEJO

From 2 IM’s for which he was a witness, we can establish that Juan Diaz de Leon was born around 1580:

10 May 1650 IM for Joseph Gonzalez and Anna de Casteñeda; Juan Diaz de Leon El Viejo (as he’s listed) gave his age as “around 70” (ca. 1580). Left image:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B75W-C?mode=g&i=133&wc=3PS…

21 Feb 1651 IM for granddaughter, Antonia Perez Mojica and Gines Carrion; his age is given as “over 60” (before 1591). Left image:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B75N-3?mode=g&i=90&wc=3PS9…

MINE & LAND REGISTRATIONS

In the San Luis Potosi Registros de Minas 1604 Exp 1-5, on 1 Mar 1604, Juan Diaz de Leon files claims on no less that 7 mines, located in Pinos. Credible witnesses present were Jorge Leal, Diego Delgado and Maria Fernandez Pinto. Other miners/individuals named are Francisco Gonzalez, Antonio Gutierrez?, Leonor de Segura, Julian de Santa Maria, Diego Camacho, Juan de Morales, Juan Ruiz de Roza, Maria de Ortega, Juan del Campo, Francisco Lopez, Pedro Anrrq.z?, and Juan Dias.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-S7DY

On the same roll, from a document dated 27 Oct 1604, Juan Diaz de Leon registers “a sitio en el Descubrimiento de Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion de Cuzco [de Sierra de Pinos],” with a main house, a compound for Indians, and an ore mill and smelter for his metals; located in la Cieneguilla de las Encinillas, on a water hole, it was bordered by the properties of Jorge Leal, Juliana de Sotomayor, and Julian de Santa Maria.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-S74T

This is likely when Encinillas became the family seat of the Diaz de Leon, though Juan Diaz was already in the area, previously: found at the General Archives of the Indies in Sevilla, is a map, dated 12 Nov 1603, of a proposed town, “to be founded on the Goleta plains, 4 leagues from the mines of Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion de Sierra de Pinos.” It shows the proposed layout of a town, with streets, a plaza mayor, and lots, assigned to individuals. One of the lots is assigned to Juan Diaz de Leon (one block south of the main plaza).
Código de Referencia: ES.41091.AGI/27.17//MP-MEXICO,51
Archivo General de Indias
Mapas y Planos
Mapas, planos, etc.: México
Planta de la nueva población que se ha de hacer en los llanos de la Goleta, a cuatro leguas de las minas de Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion de Sierra de Pinos.

I hope you find this information useful, and comments, questions and corrections are welcome.

Gracias y Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

PS & Historical Note: Even though Real de Minas de Sierra de Pinos was in the jurisdiction of Nueva Galicia, during the first decades of the 1600s, residents still had to file in San Luis Potosi, which was in the jurisdiction of Mexico City. This reflects the historical conflict over the jurisdiction of Sierra de Pinos, between the Audiencias in Mexico and Guadalajara, during the first decades of its founding. These are some of the bureaucratic headaches that our ancestors had to deal with!

¡Saludos a todos!

I am very excited to be joining this group. I live in California, USA, and I trace my ancestry back to the early Mexican settlers who came to California between 1769 and 1848. I am currently investigating my family's lines in Ahualulco, Jalisco.

Some of the families I am researching are: VÁSQUEZ, GÓMEZ, CORONA, DE ARAIZA, CORTÉS, DE YSASI/ISSASI, TIZNADO, ALVARÉZ, "CASTELO," RODRÍGUEZ, PATRÓN, DE LEÓN, DE HARO, PACHECO, DEL VALLE, DE SOTO, DE ÁVILA, ESPINOSA, LUGO.

I look forward to collaborating with everyone!

Atentamente,

- Rian R. (https://nuestrosranchos.org/rian)

Good day. 

I hope everyone is well. I am interested in buying a set of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia. 

Does anyone know where one can be found. 

Best regards,

Sandra

I need help reading some of the names in this marriage from Chihuahua, Mexico, Civil Registrations, 29 dic 1879 for Bernardo Carmona and Ma. Juana Ocon.

I can't make out the name of the groom's grandfather --Pan--?--Carmona.

I also can't make out the name of the bride's paternal grandmother ---Ma ? Munoz ?

What is the bride's paternal grandmother ---Ma. Pla.(?) Munos (?)
I looks like only her maternal grandmother is listed --Antonia Errera (?)

It is a long record that takes up two and a half pages in the marriage volume. I am so mixed up now.

Thank you in advance for your help

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

I've had no luck in searching the baptismal records for Purepero and Tlazazalca, Michoacan.  I have seen variations on the name Nomelin, like Lomelin, Numelin, Romelin, etc.  I have attached a copy of their marriage record.  Any insights or suggestions are appreciated.

Gilbert