Can anyone help me in getting a copy of that 700 manuscript from Guadalupe Diaz De Leon?

Hay alguien que me pueda ayudar en obtener las 700 páginas de Guadalupe Diaz De Leon?

Is there any chance I can get a copy of Guadalupe Diaz de Leon's manuscript, "Historia de Montesa"? I am a descendant of the Diaz de Leon family from La Montesa and would like to learn more about them.

Thank you!

Where might I get a copy of the manuscript? Searching for my wife's ancestors.
Grandfather was Ysidro Diaz De Leon who married (3) Apolonia Casas in Tlaltenango in 1845
Thank you,

Hola Felipe:

Disculpen, yo escribo en español, porque mi
ingles no es muy bueno, espero que no les moeste.

La razon de la presente es para agradecerte por
la informacion que nos brindas a todos nosotros
los investigadores de genealogia.

Si mi ingles no me engaña, nos dices sobre un
manuscrito titulado "Historia de Montesa" escrito
por Don Guadalupe Diaz de Leon en el año de
1895, y ofreces enviarlo escaneado via e.mail
o subirlo al servidor de "Nuestros Ranchos"
para su consulta, y yo por este medio te doy
las gracias y te pido que por favor a mi tambien
me hagas llegar una copia de este manuscrito
para tambien consultarlo.
Pero cuentanos mas al respecto, quien era
Don Guadalupe Diaz de Leon, y como llego a
tus manos ese interesantisimo manuscrito,
existe alguna relacion de esta persona con
el ex-rector de la Universidad de Guadalajara
Don Enrique Diaz de Leon?.

Saludos desde Guadalajara, Jalisco:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

2006/9/29, felipe reyes :
>
> Dear Cousin John:
>
> The origin of the Hacienda de "Los Campos" is wide mentioned in a titled
> manuscript " Historia de Montesa" by Don Guadalupe Diaz of Leon in the
> year
> of 1895. In fact it is an historical story of the origin of the family
> Diaz
> of Leon and other ancient surnames of Aguascalientes, Zacatecas and
> Jalisco.That valious story includes the years from 1620 to 1890 and
> contains
> information of incredible testimonial value. I have an "scanned" file .
> This document is 700 pages thick. Tell me if you need that I sen it to you
> E-mail or "upload it" the familiar archives of "Nuestros Ranchos", for
> permanent consultation of our genealogists cousins. Our causin Jorge
> Mendoza
> already is consulting it.
> Felipe reyes Romo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Platica con tus amigos en linea con MSN Messenger
> http://messenger.t1msn.com.mx/
>

Felipe,
Do you have any genealogical info on the de los Reyes of Zacatecas?

I have an ancestress named Clare de los Reyes, who married Cristobal
Villavicencio/sencio/sensio in the 1750s in Jerez, Zacatecas. I have
no other information on her. Thanks. Marge:)
On Sep 29, 2006, at 11:48 AM, felipe reyes wrote:

> Dear Cousin John:
>
> The origin of the Hacienda de "Los Campos" is wide mentioned in a
> titled
> manuscript " Historia de Montesa" by Don Guadalupe Diaz of Leon in the
> year
> of 1895. In fact it is an historical story of the origin of the family
> Diaz
> of Leon and other ancient surnames of Aguascalientes, Zacatecas and
> Jalisco.That valious story includes the years from 1620 to 1890 and
> contains
> information of incredible testimonial value. I have an “scanned” file
> .
> This document is 700 pages thick. Tell me if you need that I sen it to
> you
> E-mail or "upload it" the familiar archives of "Nuestros Ranchos", for
> permanent consultation of our genealogists cousins. Our causin Jorge
> Mendoza
> already is consulting it.
> Felipe reyes Romo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Platica con tus amigos en linea con MSN Messenger
> http://messenger.t1msn.com.mx/
>

Hi Travis,

Listed below is a translated excerpt from the book: "Genealogy of Nochistlán, Old Kingdom of New Galicia in the 17th Century according to its Parish Archives"

Chapter 80 covers several of the individuals that are involved in the documents noted in your original post.  Unfortunately this does not answer your question as to whether or not Sebastian Perez and Lazaro Ramos were half-brothers, but perhaps the below translated document may assist others in knowing the extent of this Perez family, including Sebastian Perez.   The translated and actual documents are both located in our File section, under the "Reference" area. The link:  Nochistlan Capitulo 80

Chapter 80, Start Page 231

Genealogy of Nochistlán, Old Kingdom of New Galicia in the 17th Century according to its Parish Archives

The Pérez de Frías / Pérez Burgeño / Pérez Espinoza of Santa María de los Lagos at the beginning of the 17th century

Descendants of Juan Pérez de Frías and María López

There is some doubt as to who the father of the offspring documented in this chapter is. According to the illustrious researcher Don José Alfonso Rodríguez de Carvajal y Ortiz, these are sons of Juan Pérez de Frías, son of Juan Pérez de Frías the Elder, brother by Hernando de Frías.  It is documented that Juan Pérez de Frías the Elder "In 1597 Juan Pérez de Frías received a siege of cattle (780 hectares) and a caballeria of land (43 hectares) bordering the town." p.21. Rojas, Beatriz et al., Brief History of Aguascalientes. 1994, El Colegio de México. Likewise, Juan Pérez de Frías is documented as selling land to the Orozco Agüero family in 1579 giving rise to the Ajojucar hacienda. (Guillermo Garmendía Leal, p. 121). Likewise, there is the Document dated June 15, 1577 concerning the Indians of Nochistlán to the Mayor M^R of the valley of Suchulipa regarding bad treatments that mention sending Indians to serve Ju°de Frías Voice of the pu^o of Teocaltiche, State Public Library from Jalisco, No. 11, Leg. 1, 16th Century. Doña Ángela de Belasco, widow, wife of Gerónimo de Orosco, deceased, mentions who appeared before the notary Juan Pérez de Ribera, his son, Franco de Orosco, and presented a mrd Ssha for Mr. Don Gerónimo of Orosco, president and governor, and Cappan, general, who was from this R" to Ju Pérez de Frías, of a cattle ranch site smaller (438 hectares) and four caballeries of land (166 hectares in total) in terms of this town (Teocaltiche) in the Junta of the two rivers of Custique and the one they call the big one and up above, a hot spring in the river itself, and by the lower part a mustard. Its date in Guadalajara on October 20, 1579. These two documents were provided by the illustrious researcher Don José Alfonso Rodríguez de Carvajal y Ortiz. It is a fact that María Burgeño, Ana Pérez, and Sebastián Pérez are siblings, all born in the early 17th century. They need to be identified. The name Pérez de Frías is due to marriage records and the fact that Casilda is the daughter of Beatriz Pérez or Burgeño and granddaughter of Ana Pérez should have himself appointed from Frías. Likewise, Don José Alfonso Rodríguez de Carvajal y Ortiz mentions the possibility of the existence of a Sebastián Pérez de Frías. Initially, Jaime Holcombe mentions an unknown person with the surname Burgeño. He married María Rubio, possibly the daughter of Diego González and María Rubio, who had the following offspring (coinciding the first two): María Burgeño married to Juan López de Elizalde, Ana Burgeño married to Bartolomé Martín, Catalina Rubio married to Luis López Ramírez, N.N. married to Diego Pérez who died on July 12, 1629 and Francisco González born c. 1592. He then mentions that these offspring are the children of Juan Pérez de Frías and María López.  From the marriage the following three offspring have been documented:

1) María Burgeño or María López married to Juan López de Elizalde son of Juan López de Elizalde y Aberruza and Leonor Becerra and Sánchez de Mendoza, Chapter 81.

 2) Sebastián Pérez de Frías, who married Leonor de Rubalcava. On February 4, 1687, in Santa María de los Lagos, presented the dispensation of 3rd degree of consanguinity due to lawful copulation of Juan de Ornelas, a 40-year-old Spaniard, a natural and resident of said parish; to marry Leonor de Rubalcava, 48 years of age, widow of Sebastián Pérez, and daughter legitimate of Juan de Rubalcava and María López, where the claimant declared that María López, deceased, was his blood sister of Sebastián Pérez, husband of the said Leonor de Rubalcava, the intended bride, and the same María López, was Beatriz López's mother, and she was the mother of the said Juan de Ornelas, so that the said Sebastián Pérez was the carnal uncle of the Beatriz López, mother of the prospective groom. Sacred Mitre of Guadalajara, Records of the Series of Marriages - Extracts from the 17th and 18th Centuries, María de la Luz Montejano Hilton, Microfilm 167982-474. Rodrigo was a witness de Olivares, 44 years old, who said that Sebastián Pérez de Frías died 12 years ago, Francisco de Olivares, 37 years of age and Francisco Sánchez Moreno, 63 years of age (information provided by Mary Lou Montagna).

Possibly the same woman, Leonor González, wife of Juan Pérez de Ornelas, died on January 2, 1697.

The following three offspring have been documented from the marriage:

    a) Sebastián Pérez de Frías. On April 21, 1719, in Santa María de Los Lagos, the marriage information was presented.  Sebastián Pérez de Frías, 57 years old, son of Sebastián Pérez de Frías and Leonor de Rubalcava and widower of Josepha de Castañeda; to marry               María García, with Nicolás de Ornelas as witness, who says that the deceased Josepha de Castañeda was his aunt.

b) Marcos Pérez de Frías. On February 5, 1674, Marcos, son of Sebastian Pérez and Leonor, was baptized in Teocaltiche, hijo Sebastian Perez and Leonor Robalcava, with Diego Jiménez and María Ruiz as godparents, all Spaniards and residents of this jurisdiction.

End Page 231 

Start Page 232 (Chapter 80 - Continued)

Genealogy of Nochistlán, Old Kingdom of New Galicia in the 17th Century according to its Parish Archives

c) Inés de Rubalcava, legitimate daughter of Sebastián Pérez and Leonor de Rubalcava, who married Juan Ximénez on the 21^st May 1716 in Santa María de los Lagos.

d) Juan Pérez de Ornelas. On August 9, 1707, Juan Pérez de Ornelas, a Spaniard, presented marriage information. Originally from and resident  of this parish in Río de Santa María, legitimate son of Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas and Leonor de Rubalcava, deceased; to marry Magdalena de Valdez, a Spanish widow of Joseph Carrillo and originally from Teocaltiche and a resident of this parish for six months, legitimate daughter of Basilio de Valdez and Catalina de Anda Altamirano.

3) Ana Pérez or Burgeño, who married Bartolomé Martín. On April 25, 1699, in Santa María de los Lagos, she was noted in a dispensation from a 4th degree of consanguinity for Sebastián Hernández, a 28-year-old Spanish citizen, resident and originally from said town legitimate son of Alonso Hernández and Juana de Araujo; to marry Josepha Pérez de Ornelas, a 20-year-old Spanish woman of age, legitimate daughter of Juan Pérez de Ornelas and Leonor de Rubalcava, deceased, residents of the parish, where she declared that Ana Pérez and María Burgeño were sisters and that Ana Pérez had a daughter named Beatriz Burgeño (Beatriz Burgeño or Pérez, who married Isidro de Araujo (Chapter 85), who had a daughter, Juana de Araujo, the claimant's mother, and the aforementioned María Burgeño had a daughter, Beatriz López, mother of Juan Pérez de Ornelas, father of the claimant. Sacred Mitre from Guadalajara, Marriage Records - Extracts from the 17th and 18th Centuries, María de la Luz Montejano Hilton, Microfilm 168604-2904. 

Bartolomé Martín married María Sánchez de Mendoza as his second wife, having descendants in San Juan de los Lagos according to the register of the Xalostotitlán district of 1650 (House of Bartolomé Martín, Spaniard who lives in the town of San Juan): Juan Garcia, his son of 28 anos, Lázaro de la Peña or Sánchez, a Spaniard who married Jerónima Chavarria, daughter of Juan Rodríguez de Chavarría and Beatriz de Retamosa, Joséph Sánchez de Mendoza who married D. Maria de Orozco and others children and grandchildren. The report of Fiscal proceedings of the Royal Court of Guadalajara of Santa María de los Lagos of May 10^th 1612 which mentions: Diego Pérez, Bartolomé Martín and Juan López de Liçarci, his sons-in-law, indicating that at least Bartolomé Martin and Joan López de Liçarci are married to two sisters, Ana Pérez o Burgeño and María López de Elizalde respectively. Regarding another Bartolome Martin—or perhaps the same person or a relative—the following three pieces of information exist:  On December 27, 1589, in Aguascalients, Bartolome Martin married Cathalina de Espinoza, daughter of the public notary Francisco de Espinoza (a resident of Santa Maria de los Lagos who was still alive in 1605), with Rodrigo Munoz, Hernando de Villegas, Simon Galarca, and others serving as witnesses. They were veiled on March 6, 1590 in Santa María de los Lagos. On June 16, 1628, in St. Mary of the Lagos, Catalina, daughter of Bartholome Martin and Cathalina de Ortega, was baptized. with Madalena de Padilla and Don Lorenso de Padilla as godparents. On October 8, 1635, in Santa María de los Lagos, it was Bartolomé, son of Bartolomé Martín and Cathalina de Ortega, was baptized, with Pedro Gómez Portugal and his wife as godparents. Isabel Ortiz. On August 15, 1639, in Santa María de los Lagos, Nicolás, son of Bartolome Martin and of Cathalina de Ortega, his wife, and his godparents were Lieutenant Andrés López and his sister María González. From this marriage  the following four documented offspring:

a) Nicolás Martín. On March 27, 1619, Nicolás, son of Bartolomé Martín and Ana Burgeño, was baptized in Santa María de los Lagos, with Miguel Hernandez and Juana de Herrera as godparents.

b) Beatriz Burgeño who married Isidro de Araujo, Chapter 85.

c) María Burgeño. On May 3, 1663, in Santa María de los Lagos, Joseph de Espinosa, legitimate son of Francisco de Espinoza… de fernándes del pinal; with María Burgeño, legitimate daughter of Bartolomé Martín and Ana Péres, both deceased. His wedding sponsors were Ysidro de Cuebas (de Araujo) and Beatriz Burgeño, his wife. The census of this town of Santa Maria de los Lagos for the year 1669 mentions:

                 "Joseph de Espinoza / María de Burgeño, his wife"

d) Alfonso Pérez Burgeño. A possible son of this marriage is Alfonso Pérez Burgeño who married María de Mendoza. The following offspring has been documented from this marriage:

1) Ildefonso Pérez Burgeño. On February 12, 1663, Ildefonso was baptized in Santa María de los Lagos. (appeared to be seven months old) son of Alfonso Pérez Burgeño and María de Mendoza, natives of this. The parishioners of said town of Xalostotitlán were Ju' de Fuentes and Josepha Guttz, godparents.

4) Diego Pedro Pérez de Frías. Another possible son of this marriage is Diego Pérez de Frías: On July 9, 1656 in the Royal Court of Sierra de Pinos, Diego de Frías and Elena de Sotomayor (daughter of Juan Montañez and María de Sotomayor) were married. On

End Page 232 

Start Page 233 (Chapter 80 - Continued)

Genealogy of Nochistlán, Old Kingdom of New Galicia in the 17th Century according to its Parish Archives

José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías

March 3, 1641, in Teocaltiche, Gerónima, daughter of Ju de Rubalcaba and Mari López, residents of the town of, was baptized in Teoqualtiche, with godparents Diego P° son of Ju° Péres de Frías and Mariana Lópes his sister (of Diego Pedro) residents of this village. 

The following eight offspring have been documented from this marriage:

a) Melchora de los Reyes y Pérez de Frías, who married José de Ornelas. Melchora was confirmed on December 29th of 1666 in Teocaltiche, with Francisca Sánchez as godmother. On June 22, 1708, Teocaltiche presented Matrimonial information Matiana Ruiz daughter of Antonio Ruiz (de la Fuente) and Mariana de Ullóa; to marry Luis de Ornelas, son of José de Ornelas and Melchora Pérez de Frías, where there was an impediment of consanguinity.   Jaime Holcombe presents the following hypothetical family tree (Private communication between Jaime Holcombe and Mary Lou Montagna).

                                                                                                  |

The following six offspring have been documented from this marriage:

1) José de Ornelas. On October 17, 1681, in Teocaltiche, Luis de Ornelas was baptized. On December 16 in 1708 in Teocaltiche, marriage information was presented by Joseph de Ornelas, a 26-year-old Spaniard, son of Joseph de Ornelas and Melchora de los Reyes y Pérez Frías to marry María González de Rubalcava, daughter of Joseph Rubalcava, deceased, and Petra Díaz. The claimant declared that she has two children and is expecting another. Thus, it was also documented that the grandmother of the claimant and the grandmother of the claimant were sisters. Sacred Mitre of Guadalajara, Microfilm 168114. 

2) Bernardo de Ornelas who married Gabriela Sánchez Carrillo de Sandi, natural daughter of Ygnacio Carrillo de Sandi and Gertrudis Sánchez. On April 9, 1731, in Teocaltiche, Bernardo Ornelas 25 years old presented marriage information. Bernardo, son of Joseph de Ornelas and Melchora de los Reyes y Pérez, to marry Gabriela Sánchez Carrillo, 16 years of age, the natural daughter of Ignacio Carrillo de Sandi and Gertrudis Sánchez. The bride-to-be declares that... although her father would like to take her in, he is poor, has many children, and is married... and her mother has other daughters, all of whom are poor in the town of Aguascalientes and live outside this parish. It was also documented that Ignacio Carrillo was the son of Agustina Jiménez, daughter of Jacinta de las Roelas, sister of María de Sotomayor, mother of Elena de Sotomayor, mother of Melchora de los Reyes y Pérez. Sagra Mitra of Guadalajara, Microfilm 16814.

   3) Juan de Ornelas who married María González de Rubalcava daughter of Joseph González de Rubalcava and Petra Díaz.

End page 233 

Start Page 234 (Chapter 80 -

Hello Travis,

I have not found substantiating documents that confirm or deny that Lázaro Ramos is the illegitimate son of Leonor González de Ruvalcaba or the illegitimate son of Felipe de Ruvalcaba (Leonor's brother). The uncertain parentage continued into subsequent generations which we find in the 'dispensa' for Juan de Castañeda and Catarina Ortiz date 11 may 1720:

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-2022," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D2B5-K?cc=1874591&wc=3JW5-… : 28 July 2026), Guadalajara > Diócesis de Guadalajara > Matrimonios 1705-1720 > image 616 of 630; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

The groom, Juan de Castañeda, 'español' is "originario del puesto del Tecolote, feligresía del pueblo de Nuestra Señora de San Juan y criado desde muy niño en esta feligresía [de Santa María de los Lagos] en la labor de San José de la Mololoa", and the legitimate son of Juan de Castañeda (living at the time in 'la Estanzuela', feligresía de Teocaltiche) and María Burgueño Pérez, deceased.

The bride, Catarina Ortiz, 'mestiza', is "originaria y vecina de la cañada de Patricio", and the legitimate daughter of Cristóbal Ortiz and Juana de Aguirre, 'mestizos'.

The grooms petition is for "segundo con tercero grado o de tercero con cuarto grado que no se sabe ciertamente en el grado legítimo, que sea por ser por linea bastarda". The witnesses are:

1. Sebastián Pérez, "español, vecino de esta feligresía en el puesto de San José de la Mololoa", 'tío carnal' of the groom and 'tío en segundo grado' of the bride, and 66 years old. This is the same Sebastián Pérez from the 1709-1711 documents that you referenced and who in this document also declares that Lázaro Ramos is his step brother, "...Lázaro Ramos, abuelo de la pretensa, y María Pérez Burgueño fueron hermanos..."
2. Diego Pérez, "español, vecino de esta feligresía en el la labor de San José de la Mololoa", brother of Sebastián Pérez, and 48 years old. Diego references the proceedings against his brother Sebastián for an illicit affair (the aforementioned 1709-1711 documents) that based on what was said from those proceedings it was said that Lázaro Ramos is the illegitimate brother of said Sebastián Pérez and therefore his brother also, although he does not know this to be true nor does he recognize him as his brother -  "...y entonces se dijo que Lázaro Ramos, abuelo de la pretensa era hermano del dicho Sebastián Pérez y por el consiguiente, suyo del testigo por linea bastarda, que lo cierto no lo sabe ni que le ha reconocido por tal hermano...". Coincidentally, I am currently researching this Diego Pérez, who appears to be the same Diego who married Teresa Valero (or Ovalle).
3. Felipe Pérez, "español, vecino de esta feligresía en el la labor de San José de la Mololoa", brother of Sebastián and Diego Pérez, 50 years old. In his testimony Felipe provides the basis for the alternate 'tercero con cuarto grado' relationship between the groom and bride, stating that he had heard his mother say that Lázaro Ramos was the son of Felipe de Ruvalcaba, his mother's brother and thus Felipe's first cousin  -  "...le oyo decir a su madre de este testigo que Lázaro Ramos, abuelo de la pretensa Catalina Ortiz, mestiza, como había sido hijo de Felipe de Ruvalcaba, hermano de la dicha su madre y que así se lo decía para que lo tuviera el testigo por su primo hermano..."

Lázaro Ramos also appears in the 1679 'padrón' of the parish of Jalostotitlán under the household of Diego Gómez (presumably the same "Don Diego" that you listed in your post):

Estancia: Diego Gómez, Isabel Barrona, Lázaro de Ramos, María Pérez, Andrés Gómez, María Gómez

Saludos,

Austin Pérez

Hola Norma,

I have the following genealogy for your Rosales paternal line. Un cordial Saludo!

Austin Pérez

1. Wenceslao Rosales married María de los Dolores Macías on 18 April 1825 in Encarnación. Wenceslao is the son of Matías Rosales and Ambrosia Campos; and María de los Dolores is the daughter of Pablo Macías and Juana García (probably the source of the García last name used in later generations mentioned in Manny's post).

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-2022," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-V5SM-8X?cc=1874591&wc=3JZW… : 9 August 2021), Encarnación de Díaz > La Encarnación > Matrimonios 1778-1830 > image 697 of 840; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

2. Matías Rosales married María de los Dolores Macías about Feb 1817 in Asientos. Their 'información matrimonial' (prenuptial investigation) names Matías as the son of Agustín Rosales and Feliciana Amador; and María de los Dolores is the daughter of Victorino Campos and Luciana Candelas.

"México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1601-1962," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DZDS-JT8?cc=1502404&wc=M6Q… : 30 September 2020), Asientos > Nuestra Señora de Belén > Información matrimonial 1816-1818 > image 236 of 696; parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic Church parishes, Aguascalientes).

3. Agustín Pioquinto Rosales married María Feliciana de Amador on 28 Aug 1777 in Ciénega de Rincón. Agustín is the son of Jerónimo Rosales and María de la Torre; and María Feliciana's parents are unknown as she was registered in her marriage records as 'hija de padres no conocidos'. María Feliciana also used the last name of Castillo.

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-2022," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-JP61-K?cc=1874591&wc=3JHP-7M9%3A171936601%2C171934502%2C172813301 : 17 May 2026), Ciénega de Mata > Inmaculada Concepción > Información matrimonial 1777-1779 > image 82 of 474; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-2022," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-J54R-2?cc=1874591&wc=3JHT-BZ9%3A171936601%2C171934502%2C173526701 : 9 August 2021), Ciénega de Mata > Inmaculada Concepción > Matrimonios 1757-1812 > image 185 of 577; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

4. Jerónimo Rosales married María de la Torre on 3 Feb 1744 in Aguascalientes. Jerónimo is the son of Jerónimo Rosales and Josefa Romo; María is the daughter of Juan de la Torre and María de Luevana.

"México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1601-1962," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRW9-TY4?cc=1502404&wc=M6QF-SM9%3A64894501%2C64894502%2C70237001 : 20 May 2014), Aguascalientes > Asunción de María > Información matrimonial 1743-1744 > image 713 of 718; parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic Church parishes, Aguascalientes).

"México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1601-1962," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DTDQ-J6Y?cc=1502404&wc=M6QF-2P8%3A64894501%2C64894502%2C107332501 : 20 May 2014), Aguascalientes > Asunción de María > Matrimonios 1736-1750 > image 273 of 522; parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic Church parishes, Aguascalientes).

5. Jerónimo Rosales married Josefa Romo on or after Apr 1709 in Aguascalientes. Jerónimo is the son of Francisco Rosales and Josefa García; Josefa is the daughter of Francisco Romo de Vivar and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.

"México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1620-1962," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRD3-21P?cc=1502404&wc=M6QF-MNP%3A64894501%2C64894502%2C70018301 : 20 May 2014), Aguascalientes > Asunción de María > Información matrimonial 1708-1710 > image 204 of 578; parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic Church parishes, Aguascalientes).

Hola Norma:

According to the baptism records of their children, Genaro was the son of Wenceslao Rosales and Maria Dolores Macias, who were apparently from Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. Here is the marriage record of his parents:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:684P-9DZ1?lang=en

Maria Dionisia Vazquez also used the surname Garcia (they are the same person; if you notice, on son Buenaventura’s baptism record, she is called Garcia, while on his death registry, she’s called Vazquez). The names of her parents vary in the records (and so do those of Genaro’s parents on the baptism records of twins Juan & Juana). This was a common mistake, especially in towns where the parents' didn't originate. Here are the baptism records I've found for their children:

Barbara Rosales Vasquez: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6M8M-CYPZ?lang=en
Twins Juan & Juana Rosales Vasquez: 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6MN4-ZH2M?lang=en
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6MXB-47T2?lang=en
Magdaleno Rosales Garcia: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6D2C-8MQT?lang=en
Daniel Rosales Garcia: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJ7X-4RHD?lang=en
Buenaventura Rosales Garcia (baptism): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6ZJP-6YXS?lang=en
Buenaventura Rosales Vasquez (death): 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLT3-Z1DX?lang=en

The earliest are in Fresnillo, Zac, so that might be a good place to look for their marriage record.

I hope that helps! Welcome to the group!
Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo
 

Hello Norma,

Welcome! You joined the right group. There are some incredibly knowledgeable and helpful members here who are always willing to share their experience and answer questions. Glad to have you with us!

Travis

Good day.

While that is a working hypothesis, it is worth noting that the Ortiz and Ayala surname pairing appears across other 16th-century lineages in New Spain. For instance, Antonio Ortiz de Matienzo (a former Viceroyal Page) was married to Luisa de Ayala in Mexico City by 1555. Besides, as we currently know, the Pantoja family resided in Michoacán as regidores (Pátzcuaro) and there is the marriage of Catalina Ortiz de Ayala with Francisco de Pantoja in Toledo, who in turn, was a sixth grandson of Fernán Pérez Pantoja. Moreoever, in the 16th century there is another Tomás de Ayala in the protocols of Antonio Alonso in 1579 who may be the father of the Tomás de Ayala of Michoacán.

Given the fluidity of 16th-century naming conventions in early New Spain, we must be careful since surname overlap alone cannot establish parentage. Until explicit primary-source documentation (such as a baptismal record, dowry, or marriage velación) is uncovered for Tomás, any proposed connection must be carefully analyzed.

Best regards,

Erik Andrés Reynoso y Márquez

it would be nice to know if there's a connection there? my ancestor maria esquivel is quite an enigma

Dear Daniel,

Your insight is fascinating, as always. I have long wondered about the claimed connection between the Ruiz de Chávez family and Hernán Cortés (aside from the Cortés line that suggests a link, of course). If this branch of the Chávez family indeed originates from Ciudad Rodrigo (Salamanca), there is a strong possibility they stem from the García de Chaves lineage, who were connected by marriage to the Orellana family, ancestors of Cortés himself.

Please do keep us updated as your research progresses.

Best regards,

Erik Andrés Reynoso y Márquez

I think it was an assumption made based on the availability of the documents at the time. I have to imagine that it was much more challenging in the past to do this kind of research as you had to travel to the archives in person. This is similar to the case where for a while it was thought that Catalina Corona cc Juan de Villasenor Cervantes was originally from Extremadura, Spain as detailed in the book "Los Nietos de Don Juan" by Davila Garibi. It's not a dig or criticism, it's just a matter of what material/records were accessible at the time. I find myself having to adjust old theories/conjectures as more information and documents become available.

Regards,

Daniel

Thank you for the additional information and context Pascual. This is very useful and tells me I'm on the right track. 

I'd like to share some clues on the ancestry of Leonor de Chavez Corona. There's a mention of a sale for some land that dates from the late 1500s where Diego Ruiz (El mozo) is mentioned in addition to his brother-in-law Andres de Chavez: 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BN-2QL3-D?i=202  

The relevant writing says: "...Ytem un instrumento simple de Diego Ruiz el moso en que declara por el que por cuanto Andres de Chavez su cuñado vendio al padre Melchor Hernandes Duarte una estancia de ganado mayor digo menor en el valle de Guaniqueo en terminos de Puruandiro, lindes con estancia del Colegio y Tumbio y estancia que al presente es de Francisco Magdaleno en la rivera del Rio que baja a la puente de Guaniqueo en que aprueba la dicha escritura que hizo Andres de Chavez su cuñado en una foja."

Let's suppose that this Diego Ruiz (el mozo) is Diego Ruiz Cortez (Son of Diego Ruiz Cortez and Elvira Hernandez de Rangel). Diego Ruiz Cortez was married to Leonor de Chavez Corona as we know. If Andres de Chavez was the brother of Leonor de Chavez Corona, there's now two Chavez Corona siblings we know about. 

In the mid 1500s Morelia, there was a couple by the names of Andres de Chavez cc Leonor Alvarez. Andres de Chavez' will is available for viewing here: 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSKV-D9K1-K?cat=olib%3…

In it we find that Andres de Chavez was born in Ciudad Rodrigo (En los reinos de Castilla) and he married twice, first with Leonor Alvarez and then with Catalina de Mondragon. (Andres de Chavez and Catalina de Mondragon never had any children) Andres de Chavez and Leonor Alvarez had the following children:

Pedro de Chavez Corona (Born around 1560)

Leonor de Chavez Corona

Andres de Chavez Corona

Mariana Corona y Chavez

There are further clues scattered about in land disputes, grants, notarial documents, dispensas etc. that make me believe that Leonor Alvarez was most likely Leonor Alvarez Corona, daughter of Hernando Gonzalez Corona cc Catalina Gonzalez (Originarios de Guadalacanal) and some of the first Spanish settlers of Michoacan. I believe Leonor Alvarez Corona cc Andres de Chavez to be the source of the "Corona" in the Chavez Corona and thus the Ruiz de Chavez Corona. I don't think that there was ever a direct connection to the Villasenor family in this branch of the Gonzalez/Alvarez Coronas. If anything, there would have been a Villasenor connection via Leonor Alvarez Corona's sister Mayor Gomez Corona who married Gonzalo Gomez y Gomez. They had a daughter named Catalina Gomez Corona who married Juan de Villasenor Cervantes.

Daniel 

Hello Pascual,

I've looked at this family for a while. Like you said, I have never seen a Villasenor associated with Leonor de Chavez Corona cc Diego Ruiz Cortez. She's always mentioned as Leonor Corona/Leonor de Chavez Corona/Leonor de Chavez. We only start seeing the Villasenor appear in one branch of the Ruiz Cortez y Chavez Corona, that's of Andres Ruiz de Chavez cc Maria de Villasenor. There's an "informacion matrimonial" where a Maria de Villasenor is mentioned in relation to an Andres Ruiz de Chavez in 1657:

Mexico, Guanajuato, Catholic Church Records, 1519-1984; https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KLSQ-4W?cc=1860831

In here we see that Floriana Cortez de Villasenor is getting married to Fernando Carrillo Altamirano (Viudo de Tomasina de Lira y Zayas). One of the witnesses in this information is "Domingo Cortez". He mentions in his testimony that he's the brother of Andres Ruiz de Chavez. This Domingo is quite possible the same one who married in Mexico City in 1635: Mexico, Distrito Federal, Catholic Church Records, 1514-1970; https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-DX93-V?cc=1615259&wc=3P8Q-6TL%3A122652201%2C132529401. Domingo was the son of Diego Ruiz and Leonor de Chavez Corona. This implies that the Andres Ruiz de Chavez mentioned here is the son of Diego Ruiz Cortez and Leonor de Chavez Corona.

Now, there's another witness, "Juan de Villasenor" who mentions he's the brother of Floriana. He gives his age of 27 years old. So he was born around 1630. With this Juan de Villasenor, we now know that there's at least two children of Andres Ruiz de Chavez and Maria de Villasenor who carried the "Villasenor" surname.

Going back to Andres Ruiz de Chavez, we see his signature here in the same "informacion matrimonial": Mexico, Guanajuato, Catholic Church Records, 1519-1984; https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KLS3-LH?cc=1860831. Let's compare that signature to this one from a territorial dispute where there's an Andres Ruiz de Chavez:

Morelia. Voting Registers 1649

In my opinion, the signatures match. Furthermore, in this territorial dispute, it's mentioned that this Andres Ruiz de Chavez was the father of a Nicolas de Chavez Cortez and Maria de Abrego was the mother: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSKV-D91X-F?view=fullText&keywords=Andr%C3%A9s+Ru%C3%ADz&lang=en&groupId=M9Z2-X66

So, given this information... I think that the Corona Villasenor comes from this branch/generation of the Ruiz de Chavez Corona. Andres Ruiz de Chavez married to Maria de Abrego (sometimes, the Castilleja was included as she descended from the family of the great Calzonci). So did Andres marry twice? (once to Maria de Abrego and then to Maria de Villasenor? Or are we dealing with one Maria - sometimes referred to as Abrego and other times as Villasenor?) I think that Maria de Abrego and Maria de Villasenor are the same person. Let me share some clues of why I think this:

1. Andres Ruiz de Chavez and Maria de Abrego had a son named Jose Corona who was married to Juana de Sanabria. We happen to have his will where he states that he's the son of Andres Ruiz de Chavez and Maria de Abrego: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-PH3M?i=534&cat=623294
2. In an informacion matrimonial for a daughter of Jose Corona and Juana de Sanabria, her given name is: Maria de Villasenor: Mexico, Michoacán, Catholic Church Records, 1555-1996; https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KG9R-MW?cc=1883388&wc=3NTF-SP8%3A178285301%2C178658501%2C204006203
3. In another informacion matrimonial for another daughter of Jose Corona and Juana de Sanabria, her given name is: Leonor Corona de Villasenor: Mexico, Guanajuato, Catholic Church Records, 1519-1984; https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-ZGSL-92?cc=1860831

This makes me think that we're dealing with a one and the same Maria de Abrego Castillieja... y... Villasenor. I don't have any information on her parents other than she was a descendant of the "Senores de Michoacan". 

I hope this helps. 

Daniel

What you request is here: De Nobleza Inmemorial: Genealogía y poder en los linajes de Nueva Galicia, Nueva España y el obispado de Michoacán : Reynoso y Márquez, Erik Andrés: Amazon.es: Libros

There are two “Diego Romo” that are first cousins that worked for  their uncle Francisco del Rincon. One of the Diego Romos is the son of Antonio Romo and Ana Arellano and is known as Diego Romo de Arellano.  The second Diego Romo is known as Diego Romo de Vivar.  The lengthier surnames were needed to distinguish between them as they both worked for their uncle when they first came over from Spain. 

We have a record of a Diego Romo that came over from Spain that is identified as the son of Juan Romo and Ana Diaz.  This Diego came over with his brother Luis Romo. I believe that Juan Romo is the brother of Antonio Romo and Francisca del Rincon.  In a lawsuit that I found, Juan Romo is involved in  a lawsuit with another family member over property located where Diego Romo de Vivar and his brother Alonso de la Fuente resided before leaving Spain.  Francisco del Rincon de Vivar, Antonio Romo, and Juan Romo were sons of Juan Luis del Rincon and Maria Romo.  The de Vivar comes from Maria Romo.  Ana Diaz may also have the De Vivar surname in her ancestry as many family members in that area commonly used  both Diaz and Diaz de Vivar.  



The parents of Juan Luis del Rincon are Juan de Fuentes and Ynes del Rincon. This means that the paternal grandparents of Francisco del Rincon, Antonio Romo, and Juan Romo are Juan de Fuentes and Ynes del Rincon. Juan de Fuentes was also known as Juan Rico Romo before he took the surname “de Fuentes” from the “villa de la Fuente” that he resided at. That is where Diego Romo de Vivar’s brother, Alonso de la Fuente, gets his surname from. 

Going back to Juan Romo, son of Juan Luis del Rincon, grandson of Juan Fuentes, brings us back to how common the name “Juan” is in this family.  Juan de Fuentes (aka Juan Rico y Romo) is the grandson on his father’s side of Juan Martin Rico, and on his mother’s side, grandson of another Juan Romo.

I have pieces of a puzzle that when placed together point to Diego Romo de Vivar being the same Diego Romo that is the son of Juan Romo and Ana Diaz. The given is that Diego Romo de Vivar is a son of a sibling of Francisco del Rincon and Antonio Romo. 

Juan Romo is the only other sibling known by me at this moment,  If Juan Romo is the only other sibling then he has to be the father of Diego Romo de Vivar.  If Diego Romo, son of Juan Romo and Ana Diaz, is the same person as Diego Romo de Vivar, then he has at least two brothers that came over from Spain to what we now know as Mexico. If we find any more documents with those two brothers, Alonso de la Fuente, and Luis Romo, we may be able to find iron clad evidence of who their parents are.

I am still looking for more pieces of the puzzle to confirm this analysis, and it may be premature to post this conclusion, but I am hoping others join in the research to prove or disprove the hypothesis that Diego Romo de Vivar is the same person as Diego Romo, son of Juan Romo.

Rick A. Ricci

Diego Romo de Vivar is identified as a first cousin to Diego Romo de Arellano and that their uncle is Francisco Rincon Romo.  Through other documents we have identified Francisco del Rincon Romo as the son of Juan Luis del Rincon and Maria Romo.  These documents also reveal the parents, grandparents and great grandparents of Jose Luis del Rincon.I have the documents verifying this information.   

”En su testamento, Diego Romo de Arellano afirmó que "cuando vino de los Reinos de Castilla, entró sirviendo a Francisco Rincón, su tío", a quien sirvió “por quince o dieciséis años” y “que pasó y socorrió a su primo Diego Romo de Vivar”, a quien “le prestó un negro que Diego Romo de Vivar vendió a Hernando de Bustillos" (el Capitán Hernando de Bustillos era, en 1634, el dueño de la Hacienda de Canutillo, en la jurisdicción del Real del Parral). El testamento de Diego Romo de Arellano fue otorgado en Tlaltenango el 26 de octubre de 1667, habiendo sido testigos de su otorgamiento los Padres Predicadores Fray Diego Illanes y Fray Pedro Gómez, Vicario. En una actuación realizada el 30 de octubre de 1620, y atestiguando sobre la soltería de Diego Chavero, Diego Romo de Arellano manifestó ser a la sazón vecino de Alfajayuca, provincia de Jilotepec, en el actual estado de Méjico, tratante en ganado cabrío y de yeguas.”

Rick A. Ricci

 

Pedro Rincon y Ortega is identified as a first cousin to Capitan Diego Romo de Vivar.  Francisco Rincon de Vivar is identified as uncle of Diego Romo de Arellano and Capitán Diego Romo de Vivar.  The son of the Capitan, also named  Diego Romo de Vivar, is the one that  identifies Pedro Rincon Ortega as his  “tio”.   Capitan Diego Romo de Vivar and a first cousin, Diego Romo de Arellano, are sons of siblings of their tio Francisco Ricon y Romo de Vivar.

"cuando vino de los Reinos de Castilla, entró sirviendo a Francisco Rincón, su tío", a quien sirvió “por quince o dieciséis años” y “que pasó y socorrió a su primo Diego Romo de Vivar”

Rick A. Ricci

Book: Mygenes2000

By Rick A. Ricci, book Mygenes2000

El testamento de Diego Romo de Arellano fue otorgado en Tlaltenango el 26 de octubre de 1667
 

Hello Erik and Manny,

I went back and reread your statement that:

                   “Diego Pérez (husband of Inés Gómez) was the brother of Juan de Fuentes, who married Inés del Rincón.”. 

 I did not have that information. Another tangle in this family web.  

Thanks again Erik for your excellent work,

and thank you Manny for finding the information that Alonso de Fuentes is a brother of Capitan Diego Romo de Vivar.   It drove me to do more research which added many puzzle pieces.


Rick A. Ricci

Romo lineage from Juan Romo to Pedro Rincon Ortega, uncle of Diego Romo de Vivar:

By Rick A. Ricci, book Mygenes2000

We can take this to mean that Diego Romo de Vivar descends from Juan Luis Rincon and Maria Romo de Vivar.  They are his grandparents.    That is a fact given the documents that we have on hand at this moment. They clearly provide the pieces to state this lineage.  What is lacking is one step in the lineage as we don’t know the identity of the parents of Diego, only that one of them is a child of Juan Luis del Rincon and Maria Romo.  
 

There are many marriages among the family, first, second, and third cousins marrying. What limits the possibilities is that we know who his grandparents are, and who his brother is, Alonso Fuentes (del Fuentes)

=======================================================================

===================================================================

Additional clues to research to help find the parents of Diego Romo de Vivar:

1)- Alonso Diaz and Maria Romo are the parents of

2)- Juan Romo who married Maria Diaz (daughter of Juan Alonso El Viejo and Ana Diaz).

3)- Pedro Romo who traveled to new Spain in 1594

 
https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/show/134529?nm

Here is a record of a Diego Romo crossing the Atlantic Ocean as a criado of his brother Luis Romo Diaz (Daza).   Diego and Luis are the sons of Juan Romo y Ana Díaz de Agüero.  

This Diego Romo could be the same person as Diego Romo de Vivar.

I don’t know if ther parents of Pedro Romo (Juan Romo and Maria Diaz) are the same people as  Juan Romo and Ana Diaz de Aguero who are the parents of Diego Romo and Luis Romo.

There is still a lot more research, reading of documents, to find out exactly how Diego Romo de Vivar is a nephew of Pedro Rincon y Ortega.

Book Mygenes2000

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Eric,

After researching the subject, I discovered that you were correct in your original statement that Diego Romo de Vivar and Alonso Fuentes are brothers.  After reading documents that identify Juan Luis Ricon’s brother’s genealogical tree I am convinced, and I no longer doubt that they are brothers. 

Juan Fuentes had a first marriage prior to his marriage to Ynes del Rincon

Thanks again for all your work Erik,

Rick A. Ricci

Ejecutoria del pleito litigado por Pedro de Vivar, vecino de Rielves (Toledo), con el concejo de dicha villa, sobre su hidalguía. Archivo de la Real Chancillería de Valladolid  1575
 

https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/6678462?nm

   Bienes de difuntos: Diego del Rincón

Diego del Rincón, vecino de Toledo, donde murió con testamento. 1584.

sobre los bienes de Diego del Rincón, vecino de Toledo, donde murió con testamento. Casado con Ana de Luján, vecina de Toledo. Heredero: Juan Rincón, su hijo

https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/94599

.

Saludos Erik,

Here is a legal battle between two family members that are in that document that you provided Erik.  
https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/find?nm=&texto=Diego+romo+de+palacios+

Pleito entre Diego Alonso Fernández, vecino de Madrid (Madrid), contra Diego Romo de Palacios, vecino de Fuensalida (Toledo), sobre la tenuta y posesión de los memorías y obras pías que fundó Luis Gómez.

I believe that Luis Gomez is ancestor to Maria Gomez.

https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/show/134529?nm

Here is a record of a Diego Romo crossing the Atlantic Ocean as a criado of his brother Luis Romo Diaz (Daza).   Diego and Luis are the sons of Juan Romo y Ana Díaz de Agüero.

What is interesting about the next line is tha JUan Romo’s father is not surnamed Romo, his mother is the Romo:

On more than one occasion I have found someone surnamed Diaz to later find them with the longer surname Diaz de Vivar.

Alonso Diaz and Maria Romo are the parents of

Juan Romo who married Maria Diaz (daughter of Juan Alonso El Viejo and Ana Diaz).

They are the parents of Pedro Romo who traveled to new Spain in 1594

the area where Pedro Romo is from is part of Rielves , Toledo
 https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/memories/2MS7-VRX

Pedro is most likely a cousin of Diego Romo and Luis Romo.

Hello Erik,

Here are some more documents that may provide more puzzle pieces:

Informaciones genealógicas de Juan García Rosado, natural de San Juan del Puerto (Huelva), pretendiente a familiar del Tribunal de la Inquisición de México, y de su mujer María Romo, natural de Rielves (Toledo)

S supplied title:

Informaciones genealógicas de Juan García Rosado y de María Romo, su mujer

reference number:

INQUISICIÓN,1277,Exp.38

date of formation:

1628

level of description:

Unidad Documental Compuesta_en

reference code:

ES.28079.AHN//INQUISICIÓN,1277,Exp.38

https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/1551676?nm

——————-

Pedro Perez 1569

Expediente de concesión de licencia para pasar a Nueva España a favor de Pedro Pérez, vecino de Rielves, que va a México, donde están sus primos Luis del Rincón y Alonso Romo  Mateo Romo

https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/438983

————+

Proceso criminal de Alonso Romo, familiar del santo oficio, natural y vecino de Portillo de Toledo, a instacia de Henán González, vecino de Fuensalida, por dar puñaladas

https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/3685155/imprimir

supplied title:

Proceso criminal de Alonso Romo

reference number:

INQUISICIÓN,2088,Exp.4

date of formation:

1562

level of description:

Unidad Documental Compuesta_en

reference code:

ES.28079.AHN//INQUISICIÓN,2088,Exp.4

Saludos Erik,

Hello Erik,

I applaud your focus on the De Vivar (de Bibar) family as most other searches have focused primarily on the Romo surname.  And most searches have focused on the name Diego Romo, as the name Diego is repeated often in each family in Spain, and the name Diego Romo de Vivar is repeated in Nueva Galicia. But the name Pedro is also repeatedly found in Spain and Nueva Galicia, which leads me to the following question:

Can you add any information on Pedro de Bibar (de Vivar) and his wife Catalina Romo (daughter of Pedro de Vivar is from Fuensalida that are mentioned in the document you provided?  Is this Pedro de Vivar and Catalina Romo  the same couple that you mentioned earlier. 

Pedro Rincon de Ortega is named as Diego Romo de Vivar’s uncle.   It is most likely that Pedro is a “tio abuelo” as Pedro’s parents are Francisco Rincon de Vivar y Romo and Maria de La Vega. Pedro Rincon’s paternal grandparents are Luis Rincon and Maria Romo. I believe that this Maria Romo the aunt of  Catalina Romo. This is just a guess based on the information on hand.   Catalina Romo is named as a niece of “Maria Romo” and her mother a sister of Maria Romo    I believe that it is possible that Catalina’s father name is de Fuente which would could explain Diego having a brother with the surname de Fuente. Do you have the name of Alonso de La Fuente’s wife to see if they are brothers-in-laws?

This is just an exercise showing how the parts of the puzzle show Pedro Rincon de Ortega as a great uncle of Diego Romo de Vivar:

Pedro Romo cc Maria Gomez (De Vivar) parents of (1a) Maria Romo and (2a) Pedro Romo

Or 

or ?

Here are a couple of other possible  leads: Hernando Romo (hijo de Juan Romo y Catalina Sanchez) married to Elena  (hija  de Juan Roman y Catalina).

Hernando Romo and Elena are the parents of another Catalina Romo. Hernando Romo traveled to the “indias” with his wife and daughter in the early 1500’s, (1513 by himself and again with his wife and daughter in 1515).

https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/5531143?nm

https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/5448878?nm

Thanks again for all your research,

Rick A. Ricci

In many cases where someone is illegitimate someone in the family tries to hide that fact and makes up a different family connection. Many years ago I shared the following information based on a primary source, a will, that clearly identifies  Pero (Pedro) Gonzalez de Alcocer is his father. Fernando Diaz de Alcocer is the grandfather to Jurado “Diego Diaz de Alcocer”.

 No hay dos Jurado Diego de Alcocers, pero si hay dos Diego de Alcocer. Fernando de Alcocer si tuvo un hijo Diego de Alcocer que murio joven. El padre de Jurado Diego de Alcocer es el Doctor Pero (Pedro) Gonzalez de Alcocer.

I find Diego de Alcocer listed as a son to Fernan Diaz de Alcocer as passing away at a young age, way too young to have left descendants.

Later on when the family all of Fernan’s children are recorded in a document you don’t find Diego’s name there because he had already passed away.    The other Diego Alcocer is from an illegitimate relationship that his son the priest had.

The source where I had picked up my information is Juan de la Barreda y Acedo-Rico in his book Viejas Familias de Alcalá de Henares. My other source was Laura Balletto's citation of the will stating that Diego is Pedro Gonzalez de Alcocer’s son and therefore Fernando de Alcocer’s grandchild. According to a will, Pedro Gonzalez de Alcocer is his father.

Pedro Gonzalez De Alcocer was a priest (Doctor Pedro González de Alcocer, canónigo de la Iglesia Catedral de Sevilla). In this scenario Diego is illegitimate. Real estate deals involve the buyer checking for legal ownership of the seller. Real estate transactions must be written, as oral real estate transactions are not enforceable. Laura Balleto’s citation of the Will shows that chain of ownership from the previous owner, Diego, and how he had acquired it, through an inheritance from his Father Pedro Gonzalez De Alcocer who stated in his will that he was leaving it to his son Jurado Diego Alcocer, Our ancestor Diego.
 

Rick A. Ricci
 

Erik, muchas gracias por compartir estas nuevas gran informaciones. !Estoy muy agradecido por el trabajo de Jorge Barba, Manny Diez y de Usted!

Un cordial saludo,

Austin Pérez

Saludos Erik,

When you brought up the issue of saying that you have confirmed brother and not brother in law I immediately thought of a book that I am writing on a famous person whose ancestry has been up for debate for centuries.  

While looking for my ancestors I came across the true ancestry and began researching and writing about his family over 20 years ago.  I had over 200 pages written when someone else wrote a book with a different twist than my ancestry for him.   I was dumbfounded and wondered how all of my research showed a certain ancestry while this other book showed a different ancestry for his mother.  I did even more research and my research confirmed my findings while this other author put out another book where he doubled down on his findings.  And his findings hung on the word “brother”.  It wasn’t until Steven Francisco Hernandez Lopez, a genealogist that I greatly admire, made a mistake in putting a family tree together because a brother in law had been called brother, but more research proved that he in fact was a brother in law. A light bulb went off in my head and that is when I figured out why the other author had put together a different family tree. the other author had made the same error.  That person that he mistakenly had as the mother was the mother of his brother in law, the husband of his sister.   So my research on this figure was confirmed by further research, but it took time and more work to clear up the discrepancy.

So when you say that it is confirmed that he is a brother and not a brother in law, I feel the urge to go back and research the tree some more. I feel that it is possible that Alonso de la Fuente may be the husband of Diego Romo’s sister. 

or Alonso de La Fuente is a half brother to Diego Romo de Vivar Perez.   There is a “Alonso de La Fuente” baptized in Santa María Magdalena, Castrillo-Tejeriego, Valladolid, Castilla y León, España on 28/Oct/1581; son of Alonso de La Fuente and Maria Perez.
Thanks again,

Rick A. Ricci

Thanks for sharing Erik the clarification regarding that baptismal record of Diego.

Diego Romo and Juan Romo are brothers.

Juan Romo is the father of Maria Romo that married Pedro Rico.  (Pedro Rico is the son of Juan Martin Rico and Marina Gomez).

Pedro Rico and Maria Romo are the parents of Juan De Fuentes who married Ynes Fernandez daughter of Isabel Fernandez (Hernandez) and  Pedro Hernandez del Rincon

Juan de Fuentes and Ines del Rincon are the parents of Rafael Rincon 

Going back to Juan Romo’s brother Diego Romo we know that this Diego Romo was also referred to as Diego Romo el Viejo as there was a long string of “Diego Romo”s in the family.  

Diego Romo el Viejo’s son Diego Romo was also known as el moço

Diego Alonso Romo had more children.  In this post I am only identifying two of his sons, Diego Romo el Viejo and Juan Romo. Another son  of Diego Alonso Romo’s also has descent in what is now Los Altos de Jalisco. The reason for only identifying two lines right now is to confirm what Erik Andres Reynoso Marquez stated: that the Romo, Rincon, and Fuentes lines were interconnected.

Here are the names in a table:

One of the Diego Romos in the family line was also referred to as “Diego el Romo” and you can find in “PARES” a document where he is accused by the inquisition of saying some “inappropriate words”.   There are a few other documents in PARES that discuss Diego el Romo.  One of them is about him and his neighbor who coincidently is named Diego Alonso.

Diego el Romo, hijo de Diego García el Romo y de Isabel Álvarez.  They are from the Toledo area. 

Viaje a las India’s : Diego el Romo, hijo de Diego García el Romo y de Isabel Álvarez, vecinos de Illescas; y Julián de Illescas, [hijo] de Diego de Illescas y de Inés Álvarez, vecinos de Illescas.  This illescas is in the Toledo area just like Rielves and Fuensalida.


The quote “inappropriate words” is mine and I use it here to not go into detail here about the accusations against him.
 

The Romo research has an important audience in my immediate family as my mothers maiden name is Romo, and the many Romo cousins in my family tree are very close and keep in touch daily through a WhatsApp chat that connects the family members from all over the world   Some are in Milan Italy, a nephew in France, cousins in Toronto Canada, many cousins in Houston, Texas;  Los Angeles, California, Mexico City, Guadalajara, Jalisco; Alaska, Seattle Washington, Bend Oregon, Tepatitlan, Jalisco, and Jalostotitlan Jalisco, and Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco, and my Tia Tere Romo Barba in Germany with her husband and daughter. They constantly bombard me with questions regarding the Romo line.

Thanks again Erik for sharing your research, I am on the lookout for your next book. 

Rick A. Ricci

P.S.  while researching the Romo line, be on the lookout for the name “Pedro el Romo de Velasco”. This Pedro El Romo de Velasco came over in 1585

Like others commenting on this thread, we are descended from Basilio de Valdés y Inés Péres de Robalcaba, also, through son, Luis (m. Ana López de Lara) and grandson, Basilio (m. Manuela Gómez alias Manuela Maravillas).

Two quick comments:

• For the elder Basilio's parents: has anyone looked into Basilio de Valdés of Teocaltiche, who married Catalina Mejía de Anda Altamirano?
• And while I know records state that Manuela Gómez's parents are unknown, is it coincidental that at least one (and maybe two) descendants of Pedro Gomez de Portugal and Isabel Ortiz de Anda also used the surname "Maravilla" upon occasion. Manuela Gómez is alternatively described in records as castiza, Española and coyote similarly to how many descendants of Pedro Gomez de Portugal and Isabel Ortiz de Anda are also described.

Thank you,

Travis

Can you provide us with the URL address of the image of the marriage entry
in question? The URL is in the address bar at the top of the browser and is
unique to that image. Seeing the entry will allow someone here to transcribe
it.

Armando

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:51 PM, wrote:

> I was hoping that someone with more experience in early 1800s marriage log
> translation could help me out with some terminology/abbreviation.
>
> In the margin of the church log it states the name of the couple to be
> married, followed by the abbreviation "esp." in lower case cursive. What
> does that mean?
>
> Also in the body of the text it reads "Para el matrimonio... (then it looks
> like a lower case q with a lower case e or l above it) the next word looks
> like conmq (& again the lower case q has what looks to be an n above it.
>
> Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks.
> Monica -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

esp. means espa~ol (spanish); it means that they were either spaniards or from spanish ancestors. the other notes i dont know, maybe if i see the document'
hope this helps!

A. Bugarin

Hello Peredo,

All very good information and thank you for sharing! Would you happen to have a FS link to the baptism for Guadalupe, daughter of Guillermo Plancarte and Ana Hernandez? I've also been researching the Plancartes/Blancartes for quite a few years. I only have the baptism for their daughter Isabel. One other question, how do you know that this same Guadalupe was the wife of Alvaro Yanez Garcia? I have yet to find out the name of the wife of Alvaro Yanez Garcia. All the records I've seen, in the Tierras, the archives of "Casa de Morelos", etc. never mention his wife's name.

Thank You,

Daniel Serna Valencia

Marcelina,

No todo los casos que se modificaban los apellidos sino era como el cura notaba el apellido. Munguía y Murguía es tradicionalmente aceptado como la misma familia en la provincia de Avalos. Sin duda son dos casas distintas en la península; Munguía siendo originaria de Castilla y Murguía del País Vasco.

No se sabe quienes fueron los padres de D. Nicolás de Munguía, marido de Da. María Infante de Villegas, pero si los tengo en mi archivo familiar ya que una hija suya Da. Cecilia de Munguía y Villegas casó D. Manuel de Aranda Puelles, Señor Divisero del Solar de Puelles. Un chozno de esta pareja, D. Crescencio de Aranda Puelles y Villalobos casó a Da. Josefa de Camino y Valle Menín Velarde, miembro de mi casa materna.

Su hipótesis sobre los Munguía de Tamazula de Gordiano y Zapotlán puede ser una posibilidad.

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

Nicolas De Murguia 2Z3Y-GXT
​06 Mar 1628 Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico–Deceased
Creo que este es el dia de nacimiento(bautizo) ya que se caso y tuvo hijos despues de este dia asi que no puede ser dia que fallecio.

Busque el casimiento que seguro pudo ser entre 1680-87 pero los archivos del ano 1685-87 faltan. Otro detalle notable es que tuvo los hijos con Maria Ynfante Villegas ninguna dice Maria Gonzales mas que el de Pedro nacido 1725 que seguramente no es de ellos. Otro detalle es que el hermano diego dias Ynfante caso con villegas y tuvo a maria Ynfante villegas que se caso 1678 con alonso. O puede ser que hay dos Marias en la familia (usan los nombres solano, dias, gonzales, villegas y otros nombres) pero una use el nombre gonzales y la otra Ynfante. Lo ultimo es que si Nicolas nacio en 1628 puede ser que estuvo casado antes.

Cambiando temas: en el libro Estudios Michoacanos VII por Francisco Meyer en la pagina 113 menciona el nombre de Diego de Avalos de Velazco y Munguia (n. M. June 25 1722)fue originario de Zapotlan, Jalisco y vecino de Zamora, hijo de Pedro de Avalos y de Dona Josefa de Velazco y Munguia (aveces Murguia)

tambien menciona a nombres como Espinosa, Peres de Garfias, Aldana, Jasso, Marques de la Mora, Villanueva de Molinar

Becky, Welcome to our group.

As noted with the previous comment, Jalpa is very difficult to gather older family info, as many records that are typically available in most parishes are just not available for Jalpa.

With that said, Apolonio Romero is the son of Antonio Romero and Benancia Cobarrubias. Whether this is your Apolonio Romero is still unclear.

There were not many Apolonio Romero's listed in all the available padrons for Jalpa. In the 1826 Padron, I believe all the smaller nearby areas (such as Santa Ysabel) were included in the Puesto of Acapepesco.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K8-KRZ3?i=83&cat=230…
On image 84 of 2000 are:
Antonio Romero - Listed first (Normally head of household)
Venancia Cobarrubias - Spouse
Likely children listed were:
Juana Maria Romero
Anna Maria Romero
Jose Apolonio Romero
Maria Josefa Romero
Maria Torivia Romero
The last two children were listed as P (Parbula), All others as A (Adult)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T8VJ-K?cc=1804458
In Nochistlan, on 6 January 1838, Apolonio Romero is listed on a intended marriage record with Estefana Duran. The record stated he was from Santa Ysabel (Jalpa) and his age was listed as 24 (born circa 1814). He stated his parents to be Antonio Romero and Benancia Cobarrubias. I took a peak at the Nochistlan 1839 census records for the area she was from (Los Duranes/Duranos), and Apolonio Romero/Estefana Duran were not listed, but her parents/siblings were listed. No further records of these two exist in Nochistlan records.

Proceeding on with Jalpa Census records again.
This census is not properly dated from what I can tell, but believe it is circa 1842.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-WZNK?i=130&cat=23…
Mexico, Jalisco, Arquidiócesis de Guadalajara, padrones
Padrones, Caja 35 letra J, 1649-1825 (Jalpa - circa 1842 - Santa Ysabel)
Image 131 of 1158
(Jose) Apolonio Romero - Head of Household
Estefana Duran - Spouse of Apolonio Romero
Antonio Romero (Father)
Bonifacia (Benancia) Cobarrubias (Spouse of Antonio Romero)
Paula Romero
Silveria Romero
Deonicio Romero
Petra Romero
Valentina Romero

These are the parents/siblings of Apolonio Romero.

Most likely Estefana Duran died before having children and
Apolonio Romero re-married to Maria Jesus Sanchez, where
they remained in the Santa Ysabel, Jalpa area. Some sort
of record would help to bear this out.

Also I uploaded a quick reference list of the various Jalpa Padrons.
This is located in the Files Area (Reference section) and is also
downloadable (in PDF format).

Regards,

Lee

Hello Becky,

Jalpa is a tough one, because of all of the holes in the church records. Doing a general search, those names appear nowhere else, so Apolonio and Maria Jesus were likely born and married in Jalpa. But as you know, there are no marriage records for Jalpa between 1838 and 1864 (marriage informations).

Have you looked at the padrones? These are censuses. They are not indexed, so you have to look through each page to find your names. They usually have head of household and the family group w/ages. I recommend going backwards in years: starting in 1885, look for Apolonio & Ma Jesus, then look at 1846, which was likely before they married - maybe you’ll find them living with their parents. “Apolonio Romero” is a rare name+surname combination, and he was probably the only one with this name in Jalpa during those years. Here are three padrones that he might appear in. There are earlier ones on the same roll:

1885
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K8-KTWB?i=550&cat=23…
1846
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K8-KT9F?i=455&cat=23…
1830
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K8-KRKF?i=391&cat=23…

Hopefully you can find him, and hopefully, his parents married between 1827-1838.

Good luck!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Nicolas Jauregui’ s wife, Tomasa Jauregui Gonzalez, descends from Juan  Francisco Xauregui and Josefa  Chavez Siorda.

The marriage dispensation that I attached states that they are related through the Jauregui so,yes, Nicolas most likely descends from that same couple. The record states that they are “ segundo con tercer grado” cousins. That means that it is most likely that Tomasa’s father is a sibling to a grandparent of Maria de los Santos Jauregui.   That would make Nicolas Jauregui also a descendant of Juan Francisco Xauregui and Josefa Chavez Siorda.
Rick A. Ricci

Is this Nicolas related to the above-named person, who was married to Josefa de Chaves in 1662 in Nochistlan?

San Juana Jauregui and J Encarnacion Yniguez are the parents of Nicolas Jauregui married to Tomasa Jauregui. 

Santiago is married to Cristina Macias Valdez born about 1728 Tabasco Zacatecas. Death 10/Nov/1781 Calvino, Aguascalientes Mexico 

Santiago is the son of Domingo Maldonado.  Domingo is the son of Maria Rodriguez 

L5ZT-Q3R.  
Cristina Macis Valdez y Jimenez.

Thanks Travis,

Rick A. Ricci

Santiago is married to Cristina Macias Valdez born about 1728 Tabasco Zacatecas. Death 10/Nov/1781 Calvino, Aguascalientes Mexico 

Santiago is the son of Domingo Maldonado son of Maria Rodriguez 

L5ZT-Q3R.  
Cristina Macis Valdez y Jimenez is his wife 

Thanks Travis,

Rick A. Ricci

Hello Travis,

Your Jose Santiago Rodríguez has many similarities to Santiago Rodríguez Trejo who is married to Maria Christina Masias.  His parents are Domingo Rodríguez (aka Domingo Maldonado) (aka Domingo Maldonado Rodríguez) and Maria Teresa Trejo.

Rick A. Ricci

Hello Travis,

There is a Juan Rodríguez, (son of Anna Maria) marrying Rosa Maria De la Cruz (daughter of Josepha de la Cruz) in Guanajuato on 29/April/1715.  [https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/K6WW-XNJ]

Another thing to remember when researching people with the name Santiago is to also consider that Santiago and Diego are interchangeable.  Try looking for a Diego Rodríguez de Frias.

Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

1). Queen of England and France, Eleanor of Aquitane (b.abt1122), (d.1/Apr/1204) + Henry II Plantagenet, King of England
2). Princess of England, Leonore Plantagenet Queen consort of Castilla (b.13/Oct/1162, d.October/1214) + Alfonso VIII "el noble", King of Castilla
3). Berenguela I "la Grande", Queen of Castilla (d.8/Nov/1246) + Alfonso IX, "el Baboso" King of León and Galicia (b.15/Aug/1171), (d.24/Sep1230)
4). Alfonso de León, Señor de Molina y Mesa (b.1202) + Teresa Perez de Braganza [mistress]
Some genealogists name Urraca’s mother as Alfonso’s 3rd wife, Mayor Alfonso de Meneses.
5). Urraca Alfonso de Molina (b.abt 1233) + Garci Gomez de Carillo, señor de Ormasa
6). Garcia de Carillo.Señor de Ormasa y Mazuelo, (b. ca. 1266) + Elvira Alvarez de Osorio
7). Juana Garcia Carillo y Álvarez Osorio + Diego Gutierrez de Ceballos
8). Elvira Alvarez de Ceballos and Fernan Perez de Ayala, IX Sr. De Ayala
9). Juana Garcia de Ayala (Aka Fernández de Ayala aka de Ayala) married in 1371 to Juan Fernández de Padilla d. 1376.
10). Pero (Pedro) Lopez de Padilla, Señor de Catalañazar y Coruña, Guarda Mayor del Rey Juan II. Pedro López de Padilla married Leonor Sarmiento, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Sarmiento, Señor de Salinas y mariscal de Castilla and Juana de Guzmán.
11).- Juan de Padilla, adelantado mayor de Castilla, murió en la primavera de 1468 (hubo reporte en Abril 1468 que había muerto). casó con Mencia Manrique De Lara, Sra. de Santa Gardea

[Juan is an older brother of Gutierre Padilla who married Leonor de Aguilar. Gutierre Padilla and Leonor Aguilar are ancestors of the Padilla Dávila family of Los Altos de Jalisco.]

12)- Ana Padilla y Manrique De Lara casó con su primo Luis Fernández de Velasco.

13)- Ana Velasco y Padilla married Alonso de Carrillo De Peralta, I marqués de Falces (b. circa 1450

14)- Antonio de Peralta, II marqués de Falces (d.1545) 2° marqués de Falces, 4° conde de Santisteban de Lerín, señor de la baronía de Peralta, consejero de los reyes de Navarra, mayordomo mayor de la Casa real, m. 17/Dec/1514 Ana de Bosquet y Lucy, señora de Tornay, daughter of Jean (Juan) de Bosquet, barón de Pouget en Bearne, gran canciller de Navarra and. Ana de Lucy, señora de Belaire. Antonio had two children with another woman. One of these other children was also named Ana. Both Anas married sued their brother for their “dote” as it seems their father had passed away at the time of their marriages. Both these lawsuits are archived and if we could read them then we would find out which of the two Anas descends from Ana Bosquet y Lucy, and which descends from the other woman. The lawsuits may even tell us the name of the other woman. These documents are presently unavailable for review.

15)- Ana Carrillo de Peralta (Regado was part of the surname with some of the women, sometimes it is spelled a little differently but lost my notes with the other spelling) married Pedro de Yanguas, regidor perpetuo de la ciudad de Logroño.

16)- Ana Carillo De Peralta (named after her mother) married Geronimo Lopez “el mozo” (born in 1537) (Tesorero Real y Regidor, takes the position as his father), [son of Geronimo Lopez “el viejo” (b.1488, d. 1949 while on a ship returning to Spain) (Also Tesorero Real y Regidor), and his second wife, Catalina Alvarez De Cabrera (descendant of the house of David; she has an ancestor that is a sister of a famous Jewish theologian that became an even more famous Catholic Theologian.] Ana Carillo Peralta is Geronimo el mozo’s second of three wives.

17)- María Peralta Mendoza marries Diego Coria, Maria becomes a widow at an early age and becomes a nun before her father writes his will.

18)- There may be an extra generation here as there is some confusion as to whether #19 is the son or grandson of #18.

19)- Manuel Coria Peralta m. ca. 1630 to Catalina Lomelin (bap. 17/May/1607) (daughter of Luciano (Luis) Lomelin and Maria Del Olmo

20)-. Alonso Coria Lomelin and Ana Nuñez Hidalgo y Fernandez del Rincon
21)- Antonio Coria- Peralta Rincon and Antonia Villaseñor
22)-. Maria Coria Villaseñor and Miguel Geronimo Padilla De La Torre
23)- Juana Visensia de Guadalupe Padilla Coria, b. 1730 m. 12/Feb/1747 to Joseph Francisco de Ochoa de Sales Ochoa y Oseguera
24)- Diego Eugenio de la Trinidad de Ochoa Padilla 1754 and Isabel Mendoza
25)- Jose Francisco de Ochoa Mendoza 1789 and Anastacia Ursua Carrasco
26)-. Jose Luis Apolinario Ochoa Urzua b. 1837
27)- Enrique Ochoa Ochoa b. 1882
28)- Jesus Apolinario Ochoa Magana b. 1923
29)- Enrique Ochoa Casillas b. 1964
30)- Enrique Ochoa Cardenas b.1988

Rick A. Ricci
source: my book Mygenes2000

Nuno Álvares Pereira conocido como “ San Nuno de Santa María” y también como “Protector de Portugal” es hermano de un ancestro de Juana Nuñez de Sotomayor, esposa De Diego Ochoa Garibay.

Leonor Alfonso de Guzmán, en su testamento fechado el 24 de abril de 1341, dejó la siguiente manda: Ytem mando a Sol Martinez que anda con mi fijo Don Johan, cinquenta maravedis.

The “testamento” was written in French and the meaning of the French words was that she was leaving the money for Sol who was "carrying" her son Juan's child.

So although Juan de la Cerda did not leave a Legal male heir, Sol Martinez did give him an illegitimate son named Martin Gonzalez de la Cerda. Juan de la Cerda is grandson to the king.

Martin Gonzalez de la Cerda married Violante Gonçalves Pereira who was the illegitimate daughter of Alvaro Gonçalves Pereiral . Iria’s brother, San Nuño de Santa María, is a famous saint, known as the “Protector de Portugal” , His baptismal name is Nuñez Álvarez Pereira.

Martin and Violante are the parents of Mahalda de la Cerda who married Fernan Gutierrez de Valverde

Mahalda and Fernan are the parents of Maria Gutierrez de Valverde who married as her second husband, Gonzalo Porcallo de Moran.

Gonzalo and and Maria are the parents of Beatriz Moran who married Lorenzo Ulloa.

Lorenzo Ulloa and Beatriz Moran are the parents of Leonor de la Cerda Ulloa who married Balthazar Mendoza.

Balthazar Mendoza and Leonor de la Cerda are the parents of Juan Pantoja who married Catalina Medina

Juan Pantoja and Catalina Medina are the parents of Bernardina Mendoza who married Gonzalo Nuñez de Sotomayor

Gonzalo Nuñez de Sotomayor and Bernardina Mendoza are the parents of Juana Nunez de Sotomayor who married Diego Ochoa de Garibay.

Rick A. Ricci
Source “Mygenes2000”

Hi Rick,

For your records, this is the 17 Apr 1660 IM for Juan Perez Garfias cc Maria Valdes, who were at 4/4, descending from Diego Ochoa Garibay and his half-sister, Magdalena Garibay:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KG94-F6?mode=g&i=864&wc=3N…

Diego Ochoa Garibay-1-Magdalena de Garibay
Juan Bautista Garibay-2-Juan Ochoa Garibay
Geronima Garibay-3-Josefa Abrego
Juan Perez Garfias-4-Maria Valdes

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Ricci,

First of all, thanks for all of your work, it is greatly appreciated. I started working on my ancestry last year and as of now I have been able to trace it back to 11 generations (Jalisco, Nueva Galicia, Espana). I'm a descendant of Martin de Ochoa y Garibay Ibarlucea ( 11th great grandfather). I see that you have some information on his mother's side (Juana Ibanez de Esteibar) but I was wondering if you knew Juan Otxoa's background.

My direct line:

Enrique Ochoa Cardenas nacido en Colima, Colima 1988
-Mi padre: Enrique Ochoa Casillas nacido en Pihuamo, Jalisco 1964
-Mi abuelo: Jesus Apolinario Ochoa Magana. Pihuamo, Jalisco 1923
-Bisabuelo: Enrique Ochoa Ochoa. Pihuamo, Jalisco 1882
-2do Bisabuelo: Jose Luis Apolinario Ochoa Urzua. Tecalitlan, Jalisco 1837
-3er Bisabuelo: Jose Francisco de Ochoa Mendoza . Tecalitlan, Jalisco 1789.
-4to Bisabuelo: Diego Eugenio de la Trinidad de Ochoa Padilla. Tamazula, Jalisco 1754.
-5to Bisabuelo: Joseph Francisco de Ochoa Garibay y Padilla. Tamazula, Jalisco 1725.
-6to Bisabuelo: Bonifacio de Ochoa Garibay y Gutierrez. Zamora, Michoacan 1685
-7mo Bisabuelo: Jose de Ochoa Garibay y Jimenez. Zamora, Michoacan 1652.
-8vo Bisabuelo: Nicolas de Ochoa Garibay y Bejinez. Zamora, Michoacan 1626.
-9no Bisabuelo: Diego de Ochoa Garibay y Nunez Sotomayor. Zamora, Michoacan
-10mo Bisabuelo: Diego de Ochoa Garibay y Solis. Nueva Espana
-11mo Bisabuelo: Martin de Ochoa y Garibay Ybarlucea.
-12vo Bisabuelo: Juan de Ochoa Ybarlucea

In this journey, I've discovered some very interesting things. Like the fact that my great grandfather was the son of an "uncle/niece marriage" (not cool).

Hola Rick, es probable también que sea hijo de García, que el hijo mayor de Martín Álvarez Osorio cc. Mariana López Narices se llamara García López Osorio me sugiere esa posibilidad, personalmente lo guardo en mis anotaciones como hijo de Álvar Pérez Osorio, señor de Villalobos y Castroverde, con la posibilidad de ser hijo de García Álvarez Osorio.

sobre la edad de Martín Álvarez Osorio ya fuera hijo o hermano de García de cualquier forma era un anciano en las guerras de Granada, ya que tanto Álvar Pérez Osorio como su hijo García Álvarez Osorio murieron el mismo año de 1406 por lo tanto Martín Álvarez Osorio no podía ser más joven.

Saludos Edward y Leo,

Con una generacíon mas:

01- (cuadriabuelos ) Juan Álvarez Osorio (Merino mayor del Reino de León) cc. María Fernández de Biedma

02- (trastatarabuelos ) Pedro Álvarez Osorio (Duque de Aguiar, Señor de Valderas y Fuentes de Ropel) cc. María Rodríguez (o Fernández) de Villalobos

03- (tatarabuelos) Álvar Pérez Osorio (Señor de Villalobos y Castroverde) AKA “Álvaro Osorio el Cojo”.

04- (bisabuelos) García Álvarez Osorio

05- (abuelos) Martín Álvarez Osorio cc. Mariana López Narices

06- (padres ) Cristóbal Díaz Narices cc. Estefanía Rodríguez

07-Martin Lopez Osorio, conquistador, tambien conocido como “Lope Osorio”.

Álvaro Pérez Osorio, Señor de Villalobos y Castroverde, 1358 – Astorga (León), 1406. Noble, señor.

Biography Source: 

https://historia-hispanica.rah.es/biografias/35265-alvaro-perez-osorio

“BIOGRAPHY

Nació del matrimonio formado por Pedro Álvarez Osorio y María Fernández de Villalobos, línea ésta que dio acceso a la familia Osorio a denominarse “Señor de Villalobos”. En lo físico queda descrito por Pérez de Guzmán como “alto de cuerpo e feo e mal guarnido [...] de una dolencia que ovo de perlesía quedó tollido”. Su pariente Rodrígo Álvarez Osorio en Descendencia de los caballeros Osorios informa que “llegado el tiempo del parto, abriéronla por la hijada [...] y el niño quedó cojo”. Por ello se le conoce como Álvaro Osorio el Cojo.

Su madre murió en el parto y su padre lo dejó huérfano con tres años, bajo la tutela de su tío Álvar Rodríguez Osorio. Bien joven se hizo con las riendas de la casa destacando por su inquebrantable lealtad a la casa de Trastámara, sirviendo con igual fidelidad a Enrique II, Juan I y Enrique III cuyos reinados alcanzó.

Su partidismo por Enrique II provenía por su aversión a Pedro I, porque éste había ordenado ejecutar en Villanubla a su padre, cuyas posesiones entregó a la ciudad de León por un privilegio de 12 de junio de 1365. Por su parte, Enrique aseguró temprano esa fidelidad, pues un año antes de alzarse con el Trono, en 1368, le concedió el señorío de Villalobos.

Con la misma fidelidad sirvió a Juan I con quien coincidía en la edad, veintiún años, cuando subió al Trono. Al lado de Juan I interviene en las guerras fronterizas, especialmente en la portuguesa, a la muerte de Fernando I, asistiendo a la batalla de Aljubarrota.

Más tarde el duque de Lancaster invadió las tierras de León haciéndose fuerte Álvaro Osorio en Benavente, plaza que no se rindió; sin embargo, el inglés arrasó todos los pueblos de su señorío como Villalobos, Valderas y tierras de Astorga, talando y quemando arboledas y viñedos; asimismo devastó la ciudad, que abandonó ante la llegada de las tropas de Álvaro P. Osorio, retirándose a Portugal. En un privilegio de Juan I se concedió franquicia de alcalbala a los vecinos de Valderas por su comportamiento en esta guerra; Astorga, ya en 1446, recibió permiso de Juan II para replantar el viñedo que había arrasado el de Lancaster.

Finalizada esta contienda fue hora de recoger los frutos, recibiendo del Rey el lugar de Castroverde de Campos. Es por estas fechas cuando obtuvo la tenencia de Astorga y el encargo de construir el alcázarfortaleza de la misma; a la vez su hijo Pedro fue designado, ya en el reinado de Enrique III, regidor de Astorga, con lo que la familia afianzó su poder en la ciudad. La fidelidad a la Corona la mantuvo en el reinado de Enrique III, en cuya minoría formó parte del Consejo de Regencia, teniendo como mayordomo mayor del Rey a su otro hijo Juan; estuvo al lado del Rey ante las intrigas del conde de Benavente, Fadrique Enríquez, empleando los últimos años de su vida en la frontera musulmana con un contingente de cuatrocientos hombres, armados y mantenidos a su cuenta.

De regreso de la guerra de Granada, falleció en Astorga en 1406. Según algunos historiadores, de avanzada edad; según su descendiente Rodrigo asegura, en su manuscrito, de cuarenta y ocho años. Su cadáver fue trasladado, como ordenaba en el testamento, al Convento de Santo Domingo, de Benavente.”

A. López de Haro, Nobiliario genealógico de los reyes y títulos de España, Madrid, por Luis Sánchez, 1622

R. Álvarez de la Braña, Galicia, León y Asturias, La Coruña, Andrés Martínez, 1894

P. Rodríguez López, Episcopologio Asturicense II, Astorga, Imprenta y Librería de Porfirio López, 1907

M. Rodríguez Díez, Historia de la muy noble, leal y benemérita ciudad de Astorga, Astorga, Imprenta y Libería de Porfirio López, 1909

F. Pérez de Guzmán, Crónica de don Álvaro de Luna, ed. de Carriazo, Madrid, Espasa Calpe, 1940

Crónica de Juan I y Crónica de Enrique III, ed. de J. Couselo, Madrid, Atlas, 1953 (Biblioteca de Autores Españoles, t. 68)

P. López de Ayala, Crónica del rey don Pedro, ed. de Fernández Ortoña, Madrid, ed. Secrit, BB. AA., 1953

F. Pérez de Guzmán, Generaciones y semblanzas, Londres, Ed. Tate, 1965

A. García Abad, Historia de Valderas y su término, Burgos, Ayuntamiento de Valderas, 1968

J. M. Luengo Martínez, “La cripta de los marqueses de la ciudad en la catedral de Astorga”, en Tierras de León, 30-31, León, Diputación Provincial, 1978

J. A. Martín Fuertes, “El marquesado de Astorga, introducción a su historia”, en Astórica, 1, Astorga, Centro de Estudios Astorganos Marcelo Macías, 1983

Los Osorio y el marquesado de Astorga, Madrid, Hullera Vasco-Leonesa, 1988

R. Álvarez Osorio, “Descendencia de los caballeros Osorio”, ed. de M. A. González, Astórica, 4, Astorga, Centro de Estudios Astorganos Marcelo Macías, 1986

V. de Aponte, Recuento de las casas antiguas del reino de Galicia, Santiago de Compostela, Xunta de Galicia, 1986.

Hola Rick y Edward, igualmente un saludo a todos los que pudieran leer éste mensaje que creo necesario hacerlo público en éste post

Advierto que puedo extenderme un poco al respecto pero considero que le será útil a cualquier descendiente o estudioso del tema ya que he analizado el traslado de la ejecutoria de hidalguía litigada por los hermanos García López Osorio, Bernardino Osorio y Cristóbal Díaz Narices hijos de Martín Álvarez Osorio y Mariana López Narices.

La primer palabra que puedo utilizar para describir dicho documento es "sospechoso" y ahora les haré una lista de los testigos y los puntos clave que me han generado cierta incomodidad al leer el documento, sensación que me atrevo a pensar que sentía el acusador Francisco de Vargas al conocer la sentencia favorable a dichos hermanos.

También les compartiré un pequeño resumen con más dudas que surgen antes de que cualquier otra persona en éste u otro espacio de encuentro genealógico simplemente tache el documento de falso y la información plasmada de pura charlatanería.

Traslado: primeramente me gustaría hacer la observación de que el documendo disponible es un traslado que Martín López Osorio III nieto del conquistador solicita en 1622 de una información que Bernardino Osorio (primo hermano) de Martín López Osorio el Conquistador presentó en 1561 para venir a residir a la Nueva España en la que solicita un traslado de la ejecutoria litigada en 1530 por sus tíos y su padre, por lo tanto es el traslado de un documento solicitando otro traslado de un documento aún más antiguo, la ejecutoria original se quedó en Sevilla con el hermano mayor de Bernardino Osorio pero la copia de dicho proceso no ha sido localizada recientemente en los archivos de las Reales Chanchillerías de Granada o Valladolid, el año pasado en un video del canal RELATORES propiedad de Don Jorge Barba Gómez ésto fue comentado rapidamente con Don Erik Andrés Reynoso y Márquez los dichos comentaron no haber encontrado nada sobre el pleito mencionado por lo tanto que conste ser la primer señal de sospecha.

Testigos: 01- Lope Rodríguez (Hijodalgo de edad de 100 años poco más o menos), 02- Juan Alonso (Hombre pechero de 100 años poco más o menos), 03- Juan Benito (Hombre pechero de más de 100 años de edad), 04- Juan de Mondin (Hijodalgo de edad de 90 años poco más o menos), 05- Don Pedro Fernández de Castro y Andrada, Conde de Lemos y Andrada, Marqués de Sarria (de edad de 80 años poco más o menos), 06- Francisco de Cabrera (Hombre noble de edad de 95 años), 07- Francisco de Tapia (Hijodalgo de más de 80 años), 08- Lorenzo Ortiz Maldonado (de linaje de pecheros de edad de 75 años poco más o menos), 09- Juan Fernández de Villanueva (Hijodalgo executoriado de edad de 90 años), 10- Hernán Ruiz (Hombre llano de linaje de pecheros de edad de 75 años), 11- Juan Guillén (del estado de los hombres buenos pecheros de edad de 100 años).

como pueden ver testifican 5 Hijosdalgo y 5 Pecheros. salvo dos de los declarantes que dicen que Martín Álvarez Osorio era hijo de García Álvarez Osorio los demás concuerdan en que era hijo de Álvar Pérez Osorio (Señor de Villalobos y Castroverde) y hermano menor de García lo que encaja mejor con la cronología de los personajes mencionados, el señor de Villalobos murió en 1406 el mismo año en el que murió García Álvarez Osorio en la batalla de Quesada. murió Álvar Pérez Osorio a la edad de 48 años según algunas fuentes y de 80 años poco más o menos según otras fuentes como el manuscrito del Presbitero Rodrigo Álvarez Osorio, nadie menciona que Martín Álvarez Osorio murió en dicha batalla pero todos declaran que sirvió a los Reyes Católicos en las guerras de Granada lo que nos permite asumir que Martín Álvarez Osorio hermano menor de García Álvarez Osorio no era hijo de Mayor de Velasco, puede ser posible que lo sea nada es seguro pero es más probable que haya sido hijo de Álvar Pérez Osorio con alguna otra mujer nacido en los últimos 6 años de la vida de su padre o incluso ser un hijo postumo, de esa forma es creíble que haya servido en las guerras de Granada siendo ya un anciano como fue el caso de Don García Dávila.

los cinco hijos de Martín Álvarez Osorio y Mariana López Narices fueron los siguientes, 01- García López Osorio, 02- Bernardino Osorio, 03- Una hija que murió de 20 años, 04- Una hija que murió de 8 años, 05- Cristóbal Díaz Narices siendo el más chico es más probable que haya nacido a mediados de 1400 tanto Cristóbal como sus hermanos mayores debian de ser bastante viejos al momento de litigar dicha hidalguía. 

El acusador: después de la sentencia dada a los hermanos Francisco de Vargas apeló a la dicha alegando lo siguiente:

"dixo que seavia de rrevocar suplir y enmendar por lo siguiente = lo primero porlo general = lo otro por que las partes contrarias eran hombres llanos pecheros de su padre y abuelos y antepasados por linea recta de varon y ental possecion y reputacion fue notorio y estaban enlas partes y lugares donde avian vivido y morado = lo otro por que algun derecho avia adquirido la parte contraria a la hidalguia que se pretendia avia sido viciosso por favores y negociaciones que avia tenido con la justicia oficiales y personas principales de los consejos y lugares donde avia vivido = lo otro por que no tenia provada su yntencion ligitimamente y sus testigos eran varios y singulares criados y allegados de la parte contraria y padecian otras muchas trabas y objetos que protesto alegar por que no le devian hacer fin y prueva por lo qual nos pedia y suplicaba revocassemos la dicha sentencia la supliessemos y enmendasemos declarando a los dichos garci lopez ossorio y cristoval diaz narices por hombres llanos pecheros y decendientes de tales mandandoles pechar"

después de la apelación interpuesta por Francisco de Vargas se procedió a lo siguiente:

"fue mandado dar treslado a las partes de garci lopez ossorio bernardino ossorio y cristoval diaz narices para que alegase de su derecho lo que le conviniesse por parte de los quales fue dicho que concluyan sin embargo y por los dichos nuestros oydores fue avido el dicho pleito por concluso"

En resumen, de ésta controvertida forma concluyó el proceso de litigio de los hermanos contra Francisco de Vargas, ¿qué motivó a Francisco de Vargas a acusar a éstos hermanos de ser hombres llanos y pecheros? ¿Fue falsa su acusación y los dichos eran legítimos descendientes del señor de Villalobos? el documento ésta disponible para cualquier persona que quiera leerlo, analizarlo y cotejarlo con otras fuentes para formar una postura personal al respecto, algo similar ocurrió en el pleito de hidalguía de Fernando de Padilla Dávila Caballero veinticuatro de Jerez de la Frontera alegando que "el concejo solicita que Fernando de Padilla fuera declarado pechero llano" inclusive fue parecido el proceso de la recepción de los testimonios de ancianos de Jerez, debido a la edad de los testigos presentados por los hermanos Osorio hay diferentes opiniones personales que podemos tener unos y otros, los ancianos confundían cosas esenciales como el nombre de la esposa de Martín Álvarez Osorio y detalles similares debido a la edad de dos formas diferentes, genuinamente confundían detalles o la historia que los hermanos les pagaron por decir simplemente no la recordaban tal cual se les había instruido la forma de declarar, el testimonio del Conde de Lemos y Andrada supuesto Marqués de Sarria es sospechoso también ya que tengo conocimiento de que en el año de 1530-31-32-33 aún no se había creado el Marquesado de Sarria y el nombre del primer Marqués no concuerda con el que declara, dejando del lado lo controvertido de dicho proceso y las sospechas que pueda despertar, sigue siendo factible que la ascendencia de Martín López Osorio el Conquistador sea la siguiente

01- (Trastatarabuelos) Juan Álvarez Osorio (Merino mayor del Reino de León) cc. María Fernández de Biedma

02- (Tatarabuelos) Pedro Álvarez Osorio (Duque de Aguiar, Señor de Valderas y Fuentes de Ropel) cc. María Rodríguez (o Fernández) de Villalobos

03- (Bisabuelos) Álvar Pérez Osorio (Señor de Villalobos y Castroverde) y posiblemente su esposa Mayor de Velasco o alguna otra mujer

04- (Abuelos) Martín Álvarez Osorio cc. Mariana López Narices

05- (Padres) Cristóbal Díaz Narices cc. Estefanía Rodríguez

Sentencia: personalmente no doy por verdadera o falsa la ascendencia y entronque con el linaje Osorio pero los pocos documentos de los cuales disponemos así lo establecen a pesar de lo sospechoso que el documento el cual no ha sido localizado en algún otro archivo pueda parecer, por lo tanto en mi muy humilde opinión somos supuestos descendientes del Señor de Villalobos Álvar Pérez Osorio mientras no se pueda asegurar lo contrario con algún otro documento verdaderamente irrefutable sólo podemos seguir intercambiando puntos de vista e hipótesis sobre el tema, de cualquier forma sea verdadera o falsa dicha ancestría eso no demerita la interesantísima figura que el Sevillano Martín López Osorio representa.

el presente mensaje lo publico con el afán de aportar mi particular punto de vista con todos aquellos interesados en el tema que quieran debatir acerca del dicho documento o compartir su propio punto de vista aquí en Nuestros Ranchos o en algún otro espacio genealógico, sé que no somos muchos miembros pero espero ésta opinión pueda ser retroalimentada y sometida al juicio de otros investigadores y deudos que somos a través de Martín López Osorio.

Agradezco a Edward Rojano y a Rick A. Ricci por su continua colaboración e intercambio de ideas y agradezco a todo aquel que se tome el tiempo de leer éste mensaje.

Saludos Leo,

Un Dia en el futuro nos vemos en Mexico.  Gracias por compartir tu informacíon.   

Saludos Edward,

Unfortunately something came up and I won’t be able to be in the San Fernando Valley on Monday after all.   I am looking forward to meeting you soon.  

Gracias,

Rick A. Ricci

Apenas he leido una parte del principio y ya puedo compartirles algo curioso, Bernardino Osorio solicita el traslado de la ejecutoria para pasar a la Nueva España en 1561 y la original se quedará con su hermano mayor en Sevilla.

en el estudio Martín López, Carpintero de Ribera por Guillermo Porras Muñoz se encuentra el traslado de una Real Provisión dirigida a Martín López Osorio en la cual se puede leer lo siguiente:

"Vuestra clara Genealojia pues desendeis de la esclaresida casa de Pedro Alvares Ossorio que por su lealtad murio malamente en tiempo de nro progenitor el Rey Don Pedro"

la Real Provisión está fechada en Madrid el 10 de noviembre de 1551 diez años antes de la petición de Bernardino Osorio, es interesante pensar cuando fue que Martín igualmente levantó algúna información genealógica antes de que su primo llegara con una copia de la ejecutoria de sus padres desde Sevilla.

Edward te agradezco enormemente haber compartido ese maravilloso documento, me gustaría poder encontrarme personalmente con los dos e igualmente discutir abiertamente el tema y lamento no poder hacerlo. pero me dedicaré a leer ciudadosamente todo el manuscrito y les compartiré por privado mis concluciones una vez revisado. igualmente Rick agradezco tu incansable actividad e interes en éstos temas esperando algún día podamos conectar las dos generaciones que no quedan claras.

Saludos.

Saludos Leo y Edward,

Leo tiene razon en gue hay otra generacion. Dos documentos hacen La linea mas larga.  

Si descendemos de lo Lopez Osorio como tiene el documento que tiene Edward pero hay una generacion mas en la cadena a los Cornejo.   Despues lo mando.   
 

Gracias Leo y Edward,
Rick A. Ricci

Muchisimas gracias Edward y Leonardo por compartir esta informacíon. Yo creo que necesito ir al Smithsonian para buscar por el libro que tiene el arbol familia hasta lo Osorio y que  alamejor puede contestar las preguntas que tiene Leonardo. 

Rick

Descent from Alonso Cornejo 1 & Ines Ramirez de Cantillana to my cousin Maggie Hunter.

Línea-Primera:

14.)- Alonso Cornejo I cc. Inés Ramírez de Cantillana

13.)- Alonso Cornejo II cc. Francisca Rodríguez (Acosta o Serrano)

12.)-  Micaela Ramírez-Cornejo cc. José Vallejo Osorio Gordívar

11.)-  Francisco Vallejo y Ramírez-Cornejo cc. Gabriela María Martínez de Alcaraz

10.)- Blas Jerónimo Vallejo cc. Antonia de Lomelín

9.)- María Gertrudis Vallejo Lomelin cc. Jose Remigio Anastasio de la Mota Padilla

8.)- Maria Bernardina de Jesus Padilla + Jose Maria Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza Suazo de Carmona

7.)- Eulogia de San Rafael Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza + Juan Jose Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza

6.)- Maria del Refugio Gomez y Gomez + Gregorio Perez De La Torre

5.)- Maria S de R Perez Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza + Nicolas Ramirez y Gomez

4.)- Juana Ramirez + Jose Prospero Perez Franco

3.)- Maria del Carmen Perez Ramirez + Jose Hermenegildo Romo Franco "don Mere"

2.)- Maria Luisa Romo Perez + Jorge Ávalos

1.)- Margarita Avalos Romo Hunter

==================================================================

Línea-Segunda:

01- Alonso Cornejo I cc. Inés Ramírez de Cantillana

02- Nicolás Cornejo cc. ---- (Aún ignoro el nombre de su esposa)

03- Rosa Ramírez-Cornejo cc. Miguel García del Castillo

11.)- Bartolomé García del Castillo cc. Ana de Herrera

10.)- Manuela Victoria García del Castillo cc. Felipe Macedonio de la Mota Padilla

9.)- Jose Remigio Anastacio de la Mota Padilla cc. María Gertrudis Vallejo

8.)- Maria Bernardina de Jesus Padilla + Jose Maria Gomez Suazo de Carmona

7.)- Eulogia de San Rafael Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza + Juan Jose Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza

6.)- Maria del Refugio Gomez y Gomez + Gregorio Perez De La Torre

5.)- Maria S de R Perez Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza + Nicolas Ramirez y Gomez

4.)- Juana Ramirez + Jose Prospero Perez Franco

3.)- Maria del Carmen Perez Ramirez + Jose Hermenegildo Romo Franco "don Mere"

2.)- Maria Luisa Romo Perez + Jorge Ávalos

1.)- Margarita Avalos Romo Hunter

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos y Muchisimas gracias Leo,

Todavia no reviso toda las lineas, pero tienes a “Jose Remigio Anastasio de la Mota Padilla”  como Anastacio de La Mota Padilla.    Jose Remigio Anastasio de la Mota Padilla Es su nombre completo.

Y un analysis de “DNA” (ADN) nos dice que Antonia Lomelin es India o mestiza porque La linea materna es india. Descendencia de Antonia Lomelin a mi madre son mujeres.

Rick A. Ricci

Hola Rick y Edward, lamento no haber comentado antes, me he tardado meses en revisar y rectificar toda la información 

genealógica que poseo, te explico rapidamente nuestros ancestros Cornejo en común Rick.

Línea-Primera:

01- Alonso Cornejo I cc. Inés Ramírez de Cantillana

02- Alonso Cornejo II cc. Francisca Rodríguez (Acosta o Serrano)

03- Micaela Ramírez-Cornejo cc. José Vallejo Osorio Gordívar

04- Francisco Vallejo y Ramírez-Cornejo cc. Gabriela María Martínez de Alcaraz

05- Blas Jerónimo Vallejo cc. Antonia de Lomelín

06- María Gertrudis Vallejo cc. Anastasio de la Mota Padilla

Línea-Segunda:

01- Alonso Cornejo I cc. Inés Ramírez de Cantillana

02- Nicolás Cornejo cc. ---- (Aún ignoro el nombre de su esposa)

03- Rosa Ramírez-Cornejo cc. Miguel García del Castillo

04- Bartolomé García del Castillo cc. Ana de Herrera

05- Manuela Victoria García del Castillo cc. Felipe Macedonio de la Mota Padilla

06- Anastasio de la Mota Padilla cc. María Gertrudis Vallejo

yo desciendo de Luis Padilla hijo de Anastasio y María Gertrudis, casado con Silveria López en Tepatitlán.

les comparto ésta información matrimonial de Juan José Cornejo (1716), declara ser hijo de Alonso Cornejo II y Francisca 

Rodríguez (Acosta o Serrano). el primer testigo de la información es un Vallejo seguramente relacionado con su hermana Micaela 

Ramírez-Cornejo

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939X-DH99-TW?lang=es&i=472

últimamente he estado investigando familia Sevilla y Flores de Aréchiga en Cocula, de Haro, Llerena y Ortega en Ameca. no sé si 

tengan ascendencia de esas familias que también compartamos.

referente a los Cornejo-Osorio les comento unas ideas que tengo sin algún documento aún, yo sigo pensando que Fernando 

de Gordívar Osorio era nieto y no hijo de Martín López Osorio, igualmente creo que de alguna forma José Vallejo Osorio Gordívar 

debería de ser un bisnieto del mismo Martín y primo de los Cornejo. y sobre los Osorio en Sevilla debido a lo poco que he leido 

del pleito de los hermanos García López Osorio, Bernardino Osorio y Cristóbal Díaz Narices, los testigos parecen ser muy viejos y 

dar información contradictoria unos y otros, podrían confundirse con los ascendientes, basandome en las fechas, el nombre del 

hermano mayor y el conocimiento que sobre la familia Osorio tengo, yo creo (aclaro que es mi opinión personal) que lo más 

probable sea que Martín Álvarez Osorio cc. Mariana López Narices sea hijo de García Álvarez Osorio y nieto de Álvar Pérez 

Osorio "El Bueno o El Cojo" cc. Mayor de Velasco de esa forma concuerdan las fechas si nació poco antes de 1406, así Cristóbal 

Díaz Narices su hijo podría haber nacido a mediados de 1400 y Martín López Osorio su nieto a finales de 1400, también he 

estado en la busqueda de algún documento que conecte a Juana Hernández esposa de Martín López Osorio con el Conquistador 

Cristóbal Hernández de Mosquera y Figueroa, pero sólo en un documento se menciona que Juana fue hija legítima del 

conquistador, si era su hija debió de nacer poco antes de que Cristóbal partiera a Cuba en 1516, cualquier nueva información se 

las haré llegar ahora que puedo estár mas al pendiente de los mensajes, espero que estén bien y les mando un saludo.

What happened to Leonardo’s comments that had been posted in this thread?   I would like to study the documents regarding the common ancestors that I share with him that descend from Alonso Cornejo.   

Que paso con los comentarios de Leonardo?  Leonardo y yo somos primos lejanos y el encontro unos documentos que enseňan descendencia de dos hijos de Alonso Cornejo.   Yo quiero estudiar esos documentos.

Thank you Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Edward y Leo,

Muchas gracias por la informacíon.   Ahora si hay documento conectando Nicolas Cornejo con su padre Alonso Cornejo.   

Tambien les quiero avisar que Mayor Velasco Tambien desciende de Osorio y Que Ella y Su esposo son primos lejanos.  

Tambien Diego Temino de Velasco es primo lejano de Mayor Velasco por lo Velasco.

Rick A Ricci

Saludos Edward,

Subject:  Mayor de Velasco

So according to what you posted, Mayor Velasco is the mother of Garcia Alvarez Osorio.  And we know from the lawsuit over the taxes on the inherited property from their father that Garcia Alonso Osorio and Martin Alvarez Osorio are full brothers sharing the same inheritance and same parents.  You also posted her parents as Pedro de Velasco, I Conde de Haro, and Maria Garcia de Sarmiento.   I already had Mayor’s parents as ancestors as her brother is my ancestor through my Padilla ancestry.

This Alvaro Perez de Osorio was a lord over the many regions, and  “La Rioja” was one of them. So may explain the Rioja/Riojano surname.   

Great work Edward,

Thank you,

Rick A. Ricci

Merging the two Pedro [  (18.)-  Pedro Alvarez de Osorio] has stayed on my mind.    I don’t feel comfortable merging the two.   I think more research needs to be done. From the nobilario and other records we do have lots of information, but I feel more research needs to be done before merging these two Pedro Alvarez Osorios.

We do know that Martin Alvarez Osorio and Garcia Alvarez Osorio are brothers and we know their fathers name, Alvaro Perez Osorio, grandfathers  name, Pedro Alvarez Osorio, and great grandfather’s name, Juan Alvarez Osorio; But the question that hovers over the whole situation is the names of the mother and grandmother.    I think we should look up more records to make sure we are making the right decisions as to their names 

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Edward y Leonardo,

I have the coat of arms of Martin Lopez Osorio.  The document even has an image of it     It is beautiful.

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/17938?nm

I also want to point out that more research is needed.    (Alvaro had children with his wife.  Right now I can’t confirm if we descend from her. More research is needed.)

Rick A. Ricci

1.)- Edward Rojano

2.)- Rojano

3.)- Pedro Rojano Parra: born 18 October 1921, San Juan de Amula, Jalisco; died 10 October 2024 in Oceanside, CA.

4.)- Margarito Rojano Castillo: born 10 June 1888 El Límon, Jalisco; died 21 July 1934 in San Juan de Amula, El Límon, Jalisco.

5.)- Juan Cornejo Garcia  (also known as Juan Rojano Garcia): born 26 November 1847 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 27 April 1900 in Ejutla, Jalisco.

6.)- José Remigio Cornejo Tostado (also known as Remigio Rojano): born 30 September 1824 in Coca, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 17 November 1892 in Ejutla, Jalisco.

7.)- José Ramón Nonato Cornejo Franco (also known as Ramon Rojano): born 1795 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco

8.)- José Servando Cornejo Ramírez de Hermosillo: born 1755 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in 1833 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

9.)- José Fulgencio Cornejo Romo: born January 1730 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 20 January 1793 in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

10.)- Salvador Cornejo Ramírez: born 1689 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 28 June 1740 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

11.)- Antonio Cornejo Riojano: born 1658; died 14 June 1732 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

12.)- Alonso de Cornejo: born about 1600 in Chalco, Mexico; died November 1671 Mexico City.

13.)- Fernando de Gordíbar Osorio: born about 1550; deceased.

14.)- Martín Lopez Osorio (also known as Lope de Osorio) Conquistador de la Nueva España: born about 1493 in Sevilla, Spain; died approximately 1573 + Juana Hernandez.

15.)- Christóbal Diaz Narices + Estefanía Rodriguez

16.)- Martin Alvarez Osorio + Mariana Lopez Narices

17.)- Álvaro Pérez Osorio “El Cojo”: born approx. 1348 en el Reino de León; deceased approx. 1406.   +

proven wrong 

18.)- Isabel de Riojas/Rojas + Pedro Alvarez de Osorio

19.)- Elvira Manrique de Lara + Martin de Riojas III Señor de Monzon y Cavia

20.)- Isabel Enriquez de Villalba + Garcia Manrique de Lara

21.)- Enrique Enriquez II Señor de Villalba + Teresa de Haro

22.)- Enrique Enriquez I

23.)- Enrique Enriquez I Señor de La Puebla de los Infantes.

24.)- Enrique de Medellin + Maior Rodriguez Pecha

25.)- King Fernando III el Santo “Rey de Castiila, Leon, Galicia, Toledo, Cordoba, Jaén, and Sevilla” + Isabel de Swabia

Saludos Edward y Leonardo,

I wondered why the Riojano/Rojano (variation of De Rojas/de Riojas) would continue popping up with the surname Cornejo and not Osorio.     But now there is an answer to that.  This de Riojas/Rojas ancestry has a connection to the royal family.  The line descends from King Fernando III de Castilla aka “El Santo Rey”. They were as much nobility as the Osorio, if not higher. I’m at work on my dinner break   Tomorrow I will post an ancestral line to King Fernando III El Santo .

And as to dropping parts of the last name.   One of my lines is Alvarez Tostado but in the 1800’s we dropped the Tostado.  My father in laws grandfather was Alvarez Tostado but he dropped the Alvarez from the name and my father in laws surname was Tostado.  My Martin del Campo dropped the del Campo in the 1800’s and my mother in laws Martin del Campo ancestorschanged their surname to just Campos.

Rick A. Ricci 

1. Edward

2. Father (living)

3.Pedro Rojano Parra: born 18 October 1921, San Juan de Amula, Jalisco; died 10 October 2024 in Oceanside, CA.

4. Margarito Rojano Castillo: born 10 June 1888 El Límon, Jalisco; died 21 July 1934 in San Juan de Amula, El Límon, Jalisco.

5. Juan Cornejo Garcia  (also known as Juan Rojano Garcia): born 26 November 1847 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 27 April 1900 in Ejutla, Jalisco.

6. José Remigio Cornejo Tostado (also known as Remigio Rojano): born 30 September 1824 in Coca, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 17 November 1892 in Ejutla, Jalisco.

7. José Ramón Nonato Cornejo Franco (also known as Ramon Rojano): born 1795 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco

8. José Servando Cornejo Ramírez de Hermosillo: born 1755 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in 1833 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

9. José Fulgencio Cornejo Romo: born January 1730 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 20 January 1793 in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

10. Salvador Cornejo Ramírez: born 1689 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 28 June 1740 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

11. Antonio Cornejo Riojano: born 1658; died 14 June 1732 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

12. Alonso de Cornejo: born about 1600 in Chalco, Mexico; died November 1671 Mexico City.

13. Fernando de Gordíbar Osorio: born about 1550; deceased.

14. Martín Lopez Osorio (also known as Lope de Osorio) Conquistador de la Nueva España: born about 1493 in Sevilla, Spain; died approximately 1573

15.)- Christóbal Diaz Narices + Estefanía Rodriguez

16.)-  Martin Alvarez Osorio + Mariana Lopez Narices

17. Álvaro Pérez Osorio “El Cojo”: born approx. 1348 en el Reino de León; deceased approx. 1406.   +   

18. Pedro Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1303 in Reino de Castilla y León; deceased 14 November 1360 en Villanubla, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León. “Era adelantado mayor de tierra de León y Merino de Asturias cuando el rey don Pedro mandó darle muerte en Villanubla el 14 de Noviembre de 1360. MARTÍN FUERTES, Los Osario, op. cit. pág. 29. + 

19. Juan Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1275 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. 1328.  + 

20. Álvaro Rodríguez Osorio: born approx. 1235 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. in Benavente, Zamora, Castilla y León 1321.

21. Rodrigo Rodríguez Osorio: born approx.1200 in Astorga, Reino de León; deceased approx 1273. Took part in the conquest of Sevilla against the moors. Figura entre los donadíos adjudicados en el lugar de Bi~ena: a Rodrigo Rodríguez, fijode Rodrigo Osores, quarenta aranzadas e seis yugadas, anno e vez, e cambiarogelo en Behar (pág. 37) e igualmente en Soca~et: a Rodrigo Rodríguez Osores quarenta aranzadas e un par de casas, e cambiogelo despues en Behar (pág. 38). Igualmente figura con otras cuarenta yugadas en Alaquaz, donde es citado tras Diego López de Salcedo y Sancho Martínez de Xodar (pág. 156). En las dos primeras menciones aparece seguido de Martín González, fijo de Gonzalo Osores, y en la segunda se añade su primo (véase GONZÁLEZ, Repartimiento de Sevilla, op. cit. 11).

22. Rodrigo Osorio: born about 1166; deceased approx. From, Los Osorioun Linaje de Mas de Mil Años al Servicio de la Corona por Haime de Salazar y Acha, “XI-RODRIGO OSORIO, del que no sabemos casi nada. Estaba ya muerto en 1261, año en que su viuda y sus hijos pleitearon por San Román de Ornilla. Ella se llamaba doña EL VIRA FERNÁNDEZ<82

82.- Sobre esta generación nos ilustran dos documentos de San Pedro de Montes de 10 de junio de 1261 y de 26 de enero de 1272. El primero es una sentencia de Alfonso X sobre unas pro-

piedades en San Román de Ornilla, tras un pleito entre San Pedró de Montes y donna Elvira Ferrandez e sos fijos Rodrigo Rodriguez e Alvar Rodriguez. El segundo completa el anterior y se trata de la avenencia entre estos últimos,.fiyos de Rodrigo Osoyris e de donna Elvira Fernandez e de su tía donna Orraca Osoyriz e de Martin Gonzalez de Laguna e de suos herederos, con dicho monasterio. Parece claro que el tal Martín González es el primo citado como tal en el repartimiento de Sevilla (véase QUINTANA, San Pedro de Montes, op. cit. docs. 350 y 363, págs. 450 y465).

 23. Osorio González Señor de Villalobos (also known as Gonzalo Osórez) born approx 1130 ; died 30 May 1138.

24. El Conde Osorio Martínez: born approx 1108 in Villalobos, Zamora, Reino de Castilla y León; died in the battle of Lobregal 1st February of 1160 in Villabrámiga, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León.

25. El Conde Martín Flaínez: born before 1065; died battle of Uclés 30 May 1108 in the locality of Uclés.

26. El Conde Flaín Fernández: born approx. 1020 in Reino de León; died shortly after 1170.

27. El Conde Fernando Flaínez: born before 999 in Cea, Reino de León; died around 1053.

28. El Conde Flaín Muñoz (also knows as Flaín Nuñez in La Historia Roderici): born before 975; died before 1003.

29. Munio Flaínez (also known as Nuño Flaínez in La Historia Roderici: born before 943; died unknown, after 962 ( last documentation in the court was 962).

30. Flaín Ectaz: born approx. 932; died approx. 950.

31. Ecta: born in the first years of 10th  century; died unknown

Rick A. Ricci

Book Mygenes2000

Saludos Leonardo y Edward,

After reading the nobilario, I had more questions in my mind that led me back to Leonardo’s and Edward’s questions regarding the Osorio ancestry, so I went back to my notes and did more research.   I had originally told Edward that I believed that the Rojano/Riojano surname came from a “de Rojas” ancestry in our Osorio line.  But when I went back to look at out ancestral line with Maria Fernandez de Villalobos as Pedro Alvarez de Osorio’s wife I couldn’t find the Rojas line.   Then Leonardo questioned the ancestry.  Those thoughts were lingering as a cloud as I read the nobilario.  So yes the line starts with Juan Alvarez Osorio and his wife Aldonza de Guzman, but the nobilario doesn’t mention the wives names of Pedro Alvarez Osorio and Alvar Perez Osorio.   So I did more research which is hard on this family because there were so many Rodrigo, Alvaro, and Pedro Osorios in the family.  And it turns out that I needed to merge some of the Pedro Alvarez Osorios that I had researched.     Pedro Alvarez Osorio, son of Juan Alvarez Osorio and Aldonza Guzman, had at least four wives.    The book Anales de la Real Academia Matritense de Heraldica y Genealogia IV (1996-1997) does not even list Maria Fernandez de Villalobos as one of his wives, but she is found in other documents as his wife.     But this book specifically states that Alvaro Perez Osorio is the son of one of his other wives, Isabel de Rojas (daughter of Martin Sanchez de Rojas III, Señor de Monzon, and his wife Elvira Manrique).   This book also says that Alvar Perez Osorio had children  with Isabel de Losada out of wedlock.

So the tree looks like this:

1.)- Juan Alvarez Osorio + 

2.)- Pedro Alvarez Osorio +

3.)- Alvar Perez Osorio + 

4.)- Martin Alvarez Osorio + Mariana Lopez Narices,   [ Martin has  brother named Garcia Alvarez Osorio]

5.)- Christóbal Diaz Narices + Estefanía Rodriguez

6.)- “el conquistador” Martin Lopez Osorio

Rick A. Ricci

Source: Mygenes2000

Saludos Edward,

Creo Que su nombre es Vicente

Juan Cornejo and Josepha del Castillo are the parents of Francisca Cornejo del Castillo married to Nicolas Acosta on March 30, 1664 at Asuncion, Mexico, Districto Federal.  They are the parents of Gertrudis Cornejo de  Acosta baptized on June 27, 1663 in Centro, Distrito Federal, México.      Are they related to Francisca Acosta and Alonso Cornejo?


Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Leonardo y Edward,

Muchas Garcia’s por compartir sobre esta familia.    Maria Fernandez de Villalobos era pariente de su esposo. Ella tambien descendia de La familia Osorio. Lo de Villalobos viene de Maria Fernandez de Villalobos y no de Pedro Alvarez de Osorio.  El rey hizo a su hijo Señor de Villalobos en gratitud de servicio al rey de su padre. 

17.)- Maria Fernandez de Villalobos (aka Maria Rodriguez de Villalobos) casó con Pedro Alvarez de Osorio

18.)- Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos  (aka Fernando Rodriguez de Villalobos)   (-killed in battle Araviana 22 Sep 1359)

19.)-  Lope Ruiz de Villalobos casó con Berenguela Perez de Castaneda

20.)- Ruy Gil De Villalobos y María Diaz De Haro

21.)- Teresa Fernandez (Osorio)  & Gil Manrique de Manzanedo (b. 1168)

22.)- Fernando Gonzalez de Villalobos ( d. 1218)& his wife Elvira Pelaez

23.)-  Osorio González Señor de Villalobos (also known as Gonzalo Osórez) born approx 1130 ; died 30 May 1138.

24.)- El Conde Osorio Martínez: born approx 1108 in Villalobos, Zamora, Reino de Castilla y León; died in the battle of Lobregal 1st February of 1160 in Villabrámiga, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León.

25.)-  El Conde Martín Flaínez: born before 1065; died battle of Uclés 30 May 1108 in the locality of Uclés.

26.)- El Conde Flaín Fernández: born approx. 1020 in Reino de León; died shortly after 1170.

27.)- El Conde Fernando Flaínez: born before 999 in Cea, Reino de León; died around 1053.

28.)- El Conde Flaín Muñoz (also knows as Flaín Nuñez in La Historia Roderici): born before 975; died before 1003.

29.)- Munio Flaínez (also known as Nuño Flaínez in La Historia Roderici: born before 943; died unknown, after 962 ( last documentation in the court was 962).

30.)-   Flaín Ectaz: born approx. 932; died approx. 950.

31.)-  Ecta: born in the first years of 10th  century; died unknown

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Edward,

I saw that someone had already added the Osorio lineage to the Cornejo line on familysearch.  I haven’t checked it all out yet but I did find one common mistake.  Many genealogists have mistaken two cousins with the same name and the same title.    I am sending you an explanation of the mistake and the right lineage.   

Giron to Fernandez de Villalobos

I. Gonzalo Rodríguez Girón (b. 1160) de Fernando III recibe el señorío de Autillo en 1221. Casó con Sancha Rodríguez

II. Gonzalo González Girón, canciller mayor de Fernando III. Casó con Teresa Arias Quesada, hija de Arias González de Quesada y de María Froilaz.

III. Berenguela González Girón, señora de Autillo, quien casó con Lope Ruiz de Haro, el chico, II señor de La Guardia y de Bailén, hijo de Lope Díaz de Haro III, señor de Vizcaya y de Urraca de León.

IV. María Díaz de Haro, señora de Autillo, casó con Ruy Gil de Villalobos, señor de Villalobos.

[Aquí es donde seguimos dos líneas. Ruy Gil De Villalobos y María Diaz De Haro tienen dos hijos, Gil Ruiz de Villalobos y Lope Ruiz de Villalobos, que tienen nietos del mismo nombre, Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos. El mayor hijo, Gil tiene un hijo Ruy que es el padre de su nieto Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos que se casó con Inés de la Cerda. Muchos dicen que este Fernan es el señor de Autillo. Pero sus hijos mueren antes de el. El primo legítimo más cercano es su primo segundo del mismo nombre.

Here it is as a chart:

María Díaz de Haro, señora de Autillo, casó con Ruy Gil de Villalobos, señor de Villalobos.

Their two sons Lope and Gil each have a grandson named Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos

I am also interested in this family. I have been stuck for years trying to find primary source information on the parents of Antonio Ramirez Cornejo Riojiano, who was married to Maria Jimenez Hurtado Mendoza

the year is 1772.....  per the gemini report above it called it 1762.  Don't just "trust"....

David,

While the request has already been fulfilled, I came here to add that if you have Gemini active in the same window where the image is, it will transcribe the writing for you. I've been using it for help with documents from 1400 and 1500 and has save me hours! It can transcribe a page in seconds, where the task is all but fruitless for me. 

Here's the result for your situation:

"En la Yglia. Parrochial. de Matatlan en siete dias del mes de Dic.re de mil setecientos y sesenta y dos a.s. Baptize solemnem.te a Lazaro Mariano hijo legitimo de Juan de la Serna, y Magdna Mendes fueron sus Padrinos Juanchin Bapt.a y Maria Manla. a quienes amoneste su oblig.on y espiritual parentesco: todos de naturaleza y vec. de dha Cavec.a y para q. conste lo firmo."

I then asked Gemini to translate it into "modern" English (you can do the same into Spanish):

"In the Parish Church of Matatlán, on the seventh day of the month of December, seventeen sixty-two, I solemnly baptized Lazaro Mariano, the legitimate son of Juan de la Serna and Magdalena Mendez. His godparents were Juanchín Baptista and María Manuela, whom I instructed regarding their obligations and spiritual kinship. All are natives and residents of this administrative center; and in witness whereof, I sign it."

Juan Francisco de los Reyes (Signature)

Good luck!

AG

"En la iglesia de Santiago Matatlán, en veinticinco días de diciembre de mil setecientos setenta y dos años, bauticé y puse los santos óleos y crisma a Manuela, hija legítima de Francisco Serna...(next page)(In the margin: Manuela)...y María. Fueron los padrinos Juan López y Josefa, a quienes amonesté su obligación y espiritual parentesco; todos son naturales y vecinos de dicha cabecera, y para que conste, firmé. Agustín Tinoco."

Toribio Hernández de Arellano constitutes a sizable portion of our family's ancestry as we descend from 3 of his daughters (through multiple lines, and probably a 4th daughter as well, just not conclusively proven, yet). So I'm extremely grateful to you, Erik, for providing this information about Toribio and his ancestry.

Best regards,

Travis

Saludos Erik Andres Reynoso, 

I’m curious as to whether you were able to compare the Toribio Hernandez signature on:

(bottom right): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-63GH-8?i=422&cat=…

With the signature that you have from the Torbio Hernandez de Arellano from Salamanca, son of “Sebastián Hernández (arrendador), and Águeda Sánchez”.

Thanks,

Rick A. Ricci

Another wonderful analysis, Erik Andrés, thank you for sharing. I recall you sharing this information in your forum, and I followed it closely, since this family is also among my ancestors. I’ve also followed your posts regarding this family, Rick, thanks again!

If you don’t already have the signature of Toribio Hernández with which you can make comparisons, in a land & water document dated 26 Sep 1590, in Villa de los Lagos, one of the witnesses presented was Toribio Hernández, and he left his signature and gave his age as “mas de cincuenta años” (bottom right): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-63GH-8?i=422&cat=…

He was also presented as a witness on 4 Apr 1570 in Lagos, in the proceso del Santo Oficio contra Pedro Nuñez; at the time, he held the office of regidor and he gave his age as “mas de 40 años”; unfortunately, these files are currently restricted: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-QQN1-2?i=41&cat=3…

Thank you both for your work, and I look forward to updates!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Saludos Erik,

Here is a description given at the website of the sword:

“Se sabe que Sebastián Hernández “el Viejo”, labró en Toledo a finales del siglo XVI, según se desprende de los inventarios del príncipe D. Carlos, hijo del rey Felipe II.

Según la lista de Palomares, seguía viviendo en 1637. Curioso pomo muy similar al nº 47 del libro de Norman y que fue utilizado entre 1545 y 1640.

• GUARNICIÓN: de lazo de hierro dorado. Tiene siete guardas y dos patillas al recazo. Los gavilanes son planos, calados y vueltos en sentido contrario, con un escusón de pico en el centro. También plano y con el mismo calado, es el aro o guarda que llega hasta el pomo. Puño de madera ahusado y alambrado con una pequeña virola en la parte superior. Recazo con vaciado para el pulgar. El pomo es cónico, con dos resaltes macizos y otros dos planos y calados. Luce perilla con cuatro lados.
• HOJA: recta. En el tercio fuerte, tres canales con la inscripción repetida de la marca de Hernández “el viejo” y el resto a dos mesas. Toda ella a dos filos hasta la punta.
• INSCRIPCIÓN: DE SEBASTIAN HERNANDEZ TOLEDANO”
• 
  The sword was said to belong to Sebastian Hernandez El viejo, and it has his inscription on the sword, but I believe that the Sebastian Hernandez that was living in Toledo and in possession of it in 1637 was his son, Sebastian Hernandez El moso.

You can find a picture of a sword belonging to a Sebastian Hernandez, El Viejo here:

https://blog.tienda-medieval.com/espada-de-lazo-sebastian-hernandez-el-viejo-siglo-xvi/

Thanks again Erik,
Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Erik,

Thank you for sharing your information on Toribio Hernandez Arellano.   As I continued researching the Toribio Hernandez Arellano from the Golluf family, the cloud over that research has been not ever finding the definitive piece of evidence that they were the same people.  Though I thought that it was a only a possible match I continued researching the Golluf/Sanchez family and adding information on their genealogy. 

Thanks again for sharing these findings, 

Rick A Ricci