Greetings, 

I began my genealogy journey several years back researching my maternal grandfather's line.  My grandfather's mother (my great-grandmother) is originally from Ciudad Guzman (dob 1874) and had the maiden name of "Aguallo." A dear uncle of mine (now departed) would tell me stories about her maiden name and how it was linked to a small town (Nochistlan).  

During the COVID shutdown I followed the "aguallo" line back to the mid 1750's in Ciudad Guzman (Zapotlan Grande).  I found records (baptisms, marriage and death) on Family Search belonging to the "aguallo" line.  The oldest direct relative I found in Ciudad Guzman was Jose Vizente Ferrer de Aguayo (married in 1779), originally from Nochistlan, per his IM (a kind soul/wikitree moderator found the unindexed IM).  Unfortunately, I hit a wall at the time and could not find any additional documents for Jose Vizente Ferrer (ie a baptism record).  His marriage registry and IM identify one Antonio Mergil/Margil de Aguayo as his father (and Maria Tereza Yanez as his mother) but that's where the confusion remains (wikitree lists my Antonio Margil with another as an "unmerged match").  From Jose Vizente Ferrer's IM, specifically a testigo (Clemente de Aguayo, likely a uncle/cousin), I was able to indirectly zero-in on the Nochistlan family cluster but, again, no direct connection.  Frustrated at the time, I set this line aside until very recently.  

I used AI to review several Family Search derived docs to confirm my findings and possibly shed some light on my "wall."  The AI helped in nominal ways but often it seemed to hallucinate.  It did, however, make one interesting suggestion: it noted that given an age/time gap (the existing Antonio Margil de Aguayo on wikitree appears to have been born in 1710 and married in 1733), it was possible that the this represented a "generational collapse," meaning that the existing Antonio Margil de Aguayo may possibly have been an older relative with the same name married to a woman with a similar name (both Maria, possibly from the same "Yanez" family).  The AI further suggested that Antonio Margil, and father of Vizente, was likely an unidentified (on wikitree) brother of Clemente (both sons of Joseph de Aguayo and Manuela de Aguilar), all from Nochistlan, vice the listed brother of Joseph de Aguayo.  In other words, a son of Joseph sharing the same name as his uncle.  I then began searching the unindexed IMs on Family Search from Nochistlan circa 1750-55 (assuming that Jose Vizente Ferrer was born circa 1755).  While searching, I came across a 1751 Nochistlan IM for one Antonio de Aguayo (son of Joseph de Aguayo and Manuela de Aguilar) married to Maria "Camacho Hermocillo" (not Yanez).  Although unlikely to be my Antonio Margil, the IM does seem to identify a previously unidentified son of Joseph (brother of Clemente).  Needless to say, I'm back at my "wall," which is why I'm here, in the off chance someone has done some work on this line that can help me move past my wall.  Any help would be appreciated.

JL

p.s. I believe the "kind soul" from wikitree is a member of this distinguished group.

Does anyone in the group have any ancestors that were involved in Spain's role of assisting during the American Revolution?

As many of us have come to realize, the traditional genealogy connecting Lázaro Martín del Campo to Revilla del Campo is likely incorrect. 

Emerging evidence suggests that Bartolomé Martín del Campo and Lázaro Martín del Campo are two distinct individuals with no proven relation. While it was previously claimed that Lázaro was the same Bartolomé baptized in Revilla del Campo in 1605, the chronology is inconsistent. 

As Alfonso Martín del Campo Loza noted in his book "Memoria Documental y Gráfica de mi Apellido Martin del Campo", Lázaro was already established in Teocaltiche by 1618 and was a widower of Isabel Sánchez de Lara by 1623. A child baptized in 1605 could not have been a widower in 1623 with an established presence in Nueva Galicia by 1618. 

Recent findings point toward Herencia as the true origin: 

1) 1608 Record: I previously shared a 1608 record from Herencia showing a Lázaro Martín del Campo and his wife, María Díaz, acting as godparents: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6S69-D5H?view=fullText…;

2) The "Miguel Díaz" Connection: Jorge Barba identified that Miguel, a son of Lázaro Martín del Campo and María López de la Cruz, was registered as "Miguel Díaz" in the 1650 Jalostotitlán Census (Padrón). 

3) The Marriage Link: Jorge Barba subsequently located a marriage record dated February 8, 1587, in Herencia for the Lázaro Martín del Campo I found (son of Francisco Martín del Campo and Teresa Rodríguez) and María Alonso (Díaz). It is of utmost importance to mention that María’s parents were Miguel Díaz Avilés and Mari Díaz. 

While we cannot yet definitively prove the link, the timeline is highly compelling. 

If the Lázaro from Nueva Galicia was born circa 1590 to the couple in Herencia, he would have been 28 in Teocaltiche (1618) and a widower at 33 (1623). 

Furthermore, the naming of his son Miguel Díaz follows the tradition of naming children after their ancestors, in this case Miguel Díaz, father of María Alonso (also known as María Díaz). 

The proposed line is this one: 

1. Francisco Martín del Campo = Teresa Rodríguez 

1.1. Lázaro Martín del Campo = María Díaz/María Alonso, daughter of Miguel Díaz Avilés and Mari Díaz. 

1.1.1. Lázaro Martín del Campo = Isabel Sánchez de Lara = María López de la Cruz. 

Interestingly, Mariano González-Leal mentioned the possibility of the Herencia lineage as a footnote in Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia but did not pursue it. This is a testament to his intuition and skills as one of the greatest genealogists; even without today’s digital tools, he sensed a connection that we are only now able to substantiate. 

For those interested in a deeper dive, Jorge Barba has detailed these findings in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26PSzZwXEMM&t=6s 

Best regards, 

Erik Andrés Reynoso y Márquez

I’ve found another Tierras y Aguas folder that’s filled with easter eggs, this one with families from early Lagos de Moreno: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-63GW-X?view=explo…

Dated 28 Sep 1674, it’s regarding a dispute between Juana Tavera (widow of Jacinto de Lariz) and Capitan Andres Ramirez de Cueva. To establish their claims, the two had to present land titles and other documentation, so we’re treated to the history of the lands in question, and to the names of all of the people who owned them since the arrival of the Spaniards. There are documents dating back to the founding of Lagos de Moreno - including a copy of the original charter given to Hernando Martel, dated 15 Jan 1563 (image 509). There are also titles that passed through cabildos in 1568 & 1569, which included Lorenzo Alvarez, Luis Lopez, Alonso Macias, Juan Becerra, Toribio Hernandez, and other early notables. Following are some relationships revealed throughout these documents - of interest to me, are those regarding the descendants of Capitan Francisco Tavera. But first, the plaintiffs and their claims:

Andres Ramirez de Cueva inherited his sitio from his parents, Sebastian Ramirez cc Ana de Cueva Herrera y Sandoval, who in turn, purchased it from Madre Luisa de San Juan, religiosa del Convento de la Limpia Concepcion in Mexico City, who inherited it from her parents, Antonio de Mena y Delgadillo cc Beatriz de Herrera; Antonio de Mena was son of Capn. Hernando de Mena cc Maria Delgadillo, who was daughter of Francisco de Mata cc Isabel de Vellosillo, who were early pobladores of Lagos and the original owners of the sitio, and who bequeathed it to their son, Padre Pedro de Mena clerigo, who bequeathed it to his nephew, Antonio de Mena. There’s also talk of another piece of land that passed through the hands of Nicolas de Esquivel and brothers Casimiro y Diego Lopez de Lara, though I only skimmed through that part.

Juana Tavera - Her sitio was donated to her, half, by her maternal grandfather, Capitan Francisco Tavera, and the other half, by the heirs of his widow, Luisa de Nava. And everything I thought I knew about Juana Tavera, I’ve gotten wrong: at the time in question, she was the widow of Jacinto de Lariz, but we learn that she was first married to Miguel Hernandez Ñagas. As for her parents, they were Agustin Izquierdo and Ana Godinez Tavera; 
Ana Godinez Tavera - and this is another one that a lot of us have gotten wrong - was the daughter of Capitan Francisco Tavera. Her mother is not named, but she isn’t the daughter of Luisa de Nava, who Francisco Tavera married in 1600, since Ana was born about a decade earlier. According to a declaration made by her father in 1613 (image 565), he had promised Ana a dowry when she married Agustin Izquierdo some 3 years previous, placing their marriage around 1610. After Izquierdo’s death, she married Francisco Sanchez Moreno on 27 Sep 1620, and is likely the same Ana Tavera who married Juan de Vega on 13 Apr 1633: Juan de Vega appeared as a copadrino with Ana’s daughter, Juana Tavera, shortly after that marriage, and I think he and Ana might have been the parents of Catalina de Oran y Vega, who married Joseph Macias Valades y Alvarez, which would reconcile the kinship proposed in the Felix Acosta/Maria Landeros dispensa, which has Catalina de Oran (who is mistakenly called Catalina Macias) as the sister of Juana Tavera:

Catalina (sic Macias)-1-Juana Tavera
Ursula Macias-2-Maria de Lariz
Felix de Acosta-3-Juana Gonz de Lariz
-     -     -     -     -4-Maria Landeros
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6RSK-M1?i=93&wc=3J4W-G…

Another dispensa linked to this family group is that of Francisco Medellin cc Fabiana Gonz de Rubalcava, which reveals that Juana Tavera was sister of Maria Izquierdo y Tavera de la Vega, who married Diego Diaz Varela:

Juana Tavera-1-Maria Izquierdo Tavera
Antonio Hernandez-2-Ana Diaz Varela
Mariana de Alba-3-Fabiana Gonz de Rubalcava
Francisco Medellin-4
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K94-6K?i=279&wc=12512…

CAPITAN FRANCISCO TAVERA
As for Capitan Francisco Tavera, we are treated to a partial transcription of his testamento (image 576) - unfortunately, it’s only the cabeza and the clause in which he talks about the land in question, so we don’t get to know the names of his other children, nor who their mother (or mothers) are - but we do learn where he was born, and who his parents were: he was a native of the “pueblo de Muñoz, tierras de Salamanca,” and his parents were Antonio Tavera and Isabel Lopez Godino.

When presented as a witness on 15 Aug 1622 for the ordination of Diego de Ortiz Saavedra, Francisco Tavera declared that he had married the postulant’s maternal grandmother, Luisa de Nava, the year before Diego was born (he was baptized 12 Aug 1601, so they married mid-1600). Luisa de Nava was the widow of Francisco Muñoz. This is verified by the above mentioned donation of half-a-sitio, made on 15 Aug 1622 (image 566) by their 3 sons-in-law, Diego de Ortiz Saavedra, Juan de Isasi, and Marcos de Villalva, on behalf of their wives, Catalina, Sebastiana, and Ines Muñoz, respectively, as daughters and heirs of Luisa de Nava, who by that time, was deceased.

NICOLAS RAMIREZ
My interest in Francisco Tavera stems from the fact that I descend from Nicolas Ramirez cc Polonia de Torres, who is said to be his son. Does anyone know how this relationship was established? I’ve never seen any primary source documents to support it. And while some of Nicolas Ramirez’s children used the Tavera surname, I’ve never seen him given that surname in any primary source document - for all we know, it came from their mother. So I still have this relationship as “tentative.”

My only issue with this proposed relationship is the timeline: when presented as a witness by Padre Tomas Ruiz on 18 Jun 1592, Francisco Tavera declared that he was 40 years-old “poco mas o menos,” placing his birth around 1552:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-WSGG-X?i=822&cat=…

When presented as a witness on 15 Aug 1622 by Diego Ortiz Saavedra, he stated that he was “more than 70 years-old”, placing his birth before 1552: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DV9M-P9?i=99&wc=SSKC-L…

Lagos de Moreno was founded on 31 Mar 1563, so these estimates would have made him 11 years-old when it was founded, which is doable (he could’ve been a page), but in all likelyhood, he was underestimating his age.

In turn, his supposed son, Nicolas Ramirez, was said to be among the founders of Aguascalientes (22 Oct 1575); this can be confirmed by titles of lands granted to him at that time. One would assume that, to be eligible to receive land grants, one would have to be at least 20-25 years old (age of majority was 25), placing Ramirez’s birth before 1555 - not long after his supposed father was supposedly born. But, as mentioned, the ages given in these documents were typically estimates, with a margin of 10 years and even more, in some cases.

I hope you all find this information useful, and I hope others can expound on it.

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Reading back through the archives I found a post that states Mr Jaime Holcomb believed Pedro Ortiz de Anda (born c1560) was the natural son of Pedro de Anda Altamirano (c1535-1619). 

He also believed Isabel Ortiz de Anda (cc Pedro Gómez de Portugal), Pedro Ortiz de Anda (cc Ana Ramírez) and Catalina Ortiz de Anda (cc Esteban de Pastrano) were all also natural children (born outside of marriage) of the above Pedro Ortiz de Anda. 

Has there been any research on this family recently that validates or disproves Mr Holcomb's views?

Thank you. 

Travis

UPDATED:

[I deleted most of my original comment. Additional information is now available that makes my original theory untenable.]

Juana Gómez, Joachin Gómez, Ynes Gómez and Gaspar Gómez are all listed in the 1669 Padrón de Santa María de los Lagos as part of the household of Antonio de Aguirre and his wife, Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz (daughter of Pedro Gómez de Portugal and Isabel Ortiz de Anda):

estancia o casa de Antonio deaguirre
Ysavel Gomez Sumuger - ++
Juana gomez Soltera - ++
Pedro martin casado con - ++
Ynes gomez - ++
Joachin gomez - ++
gaspar gomez - ++
Magdalena Gutierres sumuger - ++

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KTXV

My family is descended from three of the four (Juana, Gaspar and Joachin), so the question of their identity is important to us. 

I originally proposed some or all of them were Isabel's children by a previous relationship. I was wrong. Newly discovered information now verifies the relationships between Juana, Joachin and Gaspar Gómez, as well as sets the estimated dates of birth for Juana and Gaspar back considerably to be more in line with the date of birth of Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz. She cannot be their mother, but may instead be their sister. 

A 1709 Dispensa Matrimonial establishes:

• Juana Gómez and Gaspar Gómez are hermanos.
• Joachin Gómez is Juana's son and Gaspar's nephew.
• Gaspar Gómez is married to Magdalena de Ayala AKA Gutiérrez AKA del Vargas (as seen in the 1669 padrón), and they share a son named Antonio.
• Maria Gómez is daughter of Joachin Gómez and Juana de Ysassi, and is granddaughter of Juana Gomez. She and her cousin, Antonio Gómez, are engaged to be married.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXG-6SW6-7

• Juana Gómez (hereafter referred to as Juana Gomez AKA de Anda) may be identified as Juana Gómez, daughter of Pedro Gómez de Portugal and Isabel Ortiz de Anda, and sister of Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz.
• Juana serves as madrina alongside her father, Pedro Gómez de Portugal, who is padrino in a 1663 baptism: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TV-1
• Gaspar Gómez is identified as Juana's brother in both the 1709 dispensa matrimonial above and in a 1635 baptism, where she is called Juana de Anda: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TH-J
• In the baptismal record for Gaspar's son Pedro Gómez, padrinos are "Pedro Gómez Portugal and Ysabel Ortiz": https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5BR-X
• In the 1674 marriage record of Gaspar's son, "Nicolás Gómez de Portugal," Gaspar is referred to as Gaspar Gómez de Portugal (Gaspar's 1st wife, Ana de Quesada, is stated to be deceased at this time): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KR24
• Nicolás Gómez de Portugal (son of Gaspar) marries María Díaz AKA de Ysassi, sister of Juana de Ysassi (wife of his 1st cousin Joachin Gómez, son of Juana Gómez AKA de Anda) and Ygnacio de Ysassi (husband of his half-sister Gertrudis Gómez):  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KR24

While I'm certain Ynes Gómez AKA Hortis (from the de Aguirre household in the 1669 padron) is related to this group, the nature of this relationship isn't yet determined.

____________

Below are transcriptions from the 1676 Padron de Lagos concerning the Aguirre and allied households and afterwards a tree with all sources cited.

Transcription of the household of Antonio de Aguirre and Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz, from image 49 of the 1676 Padron de Santa Maria de los Lagos:

Rancho de Ant.o deaguirre
Ant.o deAguirre Esp C++
Ysabel Ortiz ++
Joseph de aguirre S++
Ant.o Ortiz s++
Ju.o de aguirre Esp de 11años

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KYM7

From image 30 of the 1676 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos:

Cassa de Joseph Sanches
Joseph Sanches Esp C++ [husband of Aldonza Ortiz of about 4 years at this time]
Aldonza ortiz de Aguirre Esp++ [Aldonza uses both parents' surnames despite being born almost 10 years before their marriage in 1666] 
Nicolas de Aguirre niño de 9 años [son of Antonio de Aguirre and Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz, younger brother of Aldonza]
Pasqual Delacruz Y C++ [Servant?]
thereza Ma Y ++ [Servant?]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KYNC

From image 31 of the 1676 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos:

Cassa de Cat.n de Ortega
Cat.n de Ortega Esp V++  [Catalina de Ortega, viuda de Bartolome Martín]
Nicolas martín Esp s++ [son of Catalina de Ortega and Bartolome Martín]
P.o martín C++ Ynes gomes ++ [Pedro Martín, son of Catalina de Ortega and Bartolome Martín. Husband of Ynes Gómez]
Ysabel martin Esp s++ [daughter of Pedro Martín and Ynés Gómez, namesake of Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz or Isabel Ortiz de Anda?]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KY6R

_______________

Below is a tree based upon the latest information:

***Unproven children in italics***

1st Generation of the proposed household of Antonio de Aguirre as seen in the 1669 and 1676 padrons:

• Siblings Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz, Juana Gómez AKA de Anda and Gaspar Gómez:

1.1 Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz
1st cc?
2nd cc 1666 Antonio de Aguirre (Español)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5YL-F

1.2 Juana Gómez AKA Juana de Anda (Española)
cc ????
1709 Dispensa Matrimonial (sister to Gaspar Gómez and mother of Joachin Gómez): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXG-6SW6-7
1635 (Madrina as Juana de Anda with her brother Gaspar Gómez as padrino): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TH-J
1663 (Madrina with her father Pedro Gómez de Portugal as padrino): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TV-1

1.3 Gaspar Gómez (Español, mestizo)
d. 1684
cc 11 Apr 1649 Ana de Quesada
Marriage to 1st wife: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5BF-W ("fueron testigos Joseph Gomez Portugal padrinos. y Joana Masias")
cc (prob c1666-c1668) doña Magdalena Gutiérrez AKA de Ayala AKA del Vargas (Española)
1669 Padron de Lagos: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KTXV
1709 Dispensa Matrimonial (brother to Juana Gómez; uncle of her son, Joachin Gómez; husband of Magdalena de Ayala and father of Antonio Gómez): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXG-6SW6-7
(Padrino with sister "Juana de Anda" as madrina): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TH-J
(1684 burial of Gaspar Gómez, husband of dona Magdalena del Vargas): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VY9X-G8
(1721 burial of "Magdalena de Allala, espanola viuda ... de Gaspar Gomez"): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K39V-MF

2nd Generation of the proposed household of Antonio de Aguirre as seen in the 1669 and 1676 padrons:

• Children born to Isabel Ortiz prior to her 1666 marriage with Antonio de Aguirre:

1.1.1 Aldonsa Ortiz AKA de Aguirre (mestiza, Española) 
cc 1672 José Sánchez (mestizo, Español)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5Y1-W
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KYNC

1.1.2 Antonio de Ortiz?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KYM7

• Known children born to Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz after her 1666 marriage with Antonio de Aguirre:

1.1.3 Juan de Aguirre (Español)
n. c1666
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KYM7

1.1.4 Nicolas de Aguirre (mestizo)
n. c1667
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG2J-748
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KYNC

• Child of Juana Gómez AKA de Anda:

1.2.1 Joachin Gómez (mestizo)
cc Juana de Ysassi (morisca, mestiza) (Sister of Maria de Ysassi and Ygnacio de Ysassi below)
1669 Padron: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KTXV
1678 Marriage to Juana de Ysassi: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VY9J-FX
Dispensa matrimonial de Juan Javier Isassi y su bisnieta María Guadalupe Gómez (1780): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6L9C-PP (Lists Joachin and Gertrudis Gómez as siblings. They should be primos hermanos, or 1st cousins. I believe this dispensa erroneously left out their parents' generation: siblings Juana Gómez AKA de Anda and Gaspar Gómez)  
1709 Dispensa Matrimonial (son of Juana Gómez, nephew of Gaspar Gómez, husband of Juana de Ysassi, father of Maria Gómez and cousin of Antonio Gómez): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXG-6SW6-7

• Children of Gaspar Gomez and Ana de Quesada:

1.3.1 Pedro Gómez
n. 1649, b. 14 Nov 1649 padrinos: Pedro Gomez Portugal & Ysabel Ortis
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5BR-X

1.3.2 Nicolás Gómez de Portugal AKA Maravilla (mestizo, Español)
cc 14 Nov 1674 María de Ysassi AKA Díaz (sister of Juana de Ysassi above and Ygnacio de Ysassi below)
"hijo legitimo de Gaspar Gomes de Portugal i Ana de Quesada defuncta" and Padrinos: Ygnacio Gutiérrez y doña Juana Rincon, sumuger (related to Gaspar's second wife, Magdalena Gutierrez AKA de Ayala AKA del Vargas?).
Listed with wife's family in 1676 padron of Lagos: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KR24
d. 1688: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VY9X-61

• Children of Gaspar Gómez and doña Magdalena Gutiérrez AKA de Ayala AKA del Vargas:

1.3.3 Joseph Gómez (Español)
cc 1688 Ana de Avalos (mestiza), daughter of Francisco de Abalos & Francisca de Retamossa
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VY9N-L7

1.3.4 Agueda Gómez (Española)
cc 1693 Gabriel Ortiz (Español), son of Gabriel Ortiz de Anda (Español, mestizo) & Josepha de Ortega (mestiza)
1639 Baptism of the elder Gabriel Ortiz (son of Pedro Ortiz de Anda and Ana Ramírez): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5RJ-H
1693 Marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VY9F-8Y

1.3.5 Gertrudis Gómez
cc Ygnacio de Ysassi (brother of María de Ysassi AKA Díaz and Juana de Ysassi above)
Ygnacio in the 1676 Padron: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KR24
Dispensa matrimonial de Juan Javier Isassi y su bisnieta María Guadalupe Gómez (1780): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6L9C-PP (Lists Joachin and Gertrudis Gómez as siblings. They should be primos hermanos, or 1st cousins. I believe this dispensa erroneously left out their parents' generation: siblings Juana Gómez AKA de Anda and Gaspar Gómez)
Dispensa matrimonial de su bisnieto José Mariano de Isassi y María Francisca Gómez (1798):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-65RH-9

1.3.6 Antonio Gómez (mestizo)
n. 1683
cc 1709 María Gómez (mestizo), daughter of Joachin Gómez above and 1st cousin once removed from her husband, see  
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K9F7-9
1709 Dispensa Matrimonial: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXG-6SW6-7
Dispensa matrimonial de su bisnieto José Mariano de Isassi y María Francisca Gómez (1798):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-65RH-9

3rd Generation of the proposed household of Antonio de Aguirre as seen in the 1669 and 1676 padrons:

I'm descended from don Juan Cristobal de Luna y Tapía through a few of his children. He's the purchaser (1690s) of a piece of land in Lagos de Moreno, known as Cañada de los Indios Ricos (modern Cañada de Ricos).

 Any information on the following family would be helpful: 

1st generation: don Juan Cristobal de Luna y Tapía born about 1635 cc Beatris Inés. (Probable brother or 1st cousin of don Francisco de Luna born about 1637 and died abt. 1686, married doña Ana Catarina de la Cruz). 

2nd generation:

- Miguel Jacinto de Luna y Tapía born bef. 1652 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- Pasquala Magdalena de Luna y Tapía born before 1657 probably in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- don Patricio de Luna y Tapía born before 1666 probably in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco cc doña María de la Encarnación de Alarcon (AKA María de la Cruz). 

- Andrea de la Cruz (AKA Andrea de Luna) born before 1667 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- Cristobal de Luna y Tapía born about 1667 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- Rita de Luna born about May 1670 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- doña Alfonsa de Luna born about 1672 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

All the above are noted as INDIO in records, and many are noted as don, doña, cacique and/or principale, prior to and after the purchase of Cañada de Ricos. 

According to records, don Juan Cristobal de Luna y Tapía spoke Nahuatl. This fact, plus the marriage patterns of the next 2 to 3 generations of his family lead me to believe that the Luna y Tapía family were Tlaxcalan in origin not Otomi, as many suggest. 

Any information or theories about the de Luna y Tapía families of Cañada de Ricos, Encinillas and Ciénega de Mata are welcome. 

Thank you. 

Best, 

Travis

Decided to start a new thread on this: 

in an earlier post, Daniel Méndez Camino said: 

"Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas, my tenth great-grandfather, married Leonor González de Ruvalcaba, daughter of Juan González de Ruvalcaba and Leonor Franco de Paredes. I don't know if this Ornelas is related to the same family that settled in Los Altos, but I've only seen a few people with the surname Pérez de Ornelas; I don't know its origin."

My ancestor, Juan Pérez, AKA Juan de Santoyo, born about (or before) 1624 (probably in Lagos), had a probable relative named Gerónima de Ornelas. 

Listed in Juan's household in the 1669 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos is Gerónima de Ornelas, Viuda, living with Juan's widow, Antonia de Villegas, AKA Antonia de Mendoza, and their children (all of Juan and Antonia's known and suspected children assumed surnames of Santoyo, Pérez, Villegas and/or Mendoza).

I have no idea how Gerónima de Ornelas is related to Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo). Sister? Mother? Daughter? Daughter-in-law?

The order in which she is listed in the household infers she is not a servant but a relative. 

But i cannot help but think there may be a connection between my ancestor Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo) and Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas (who is also my ancestor thru his daughter Inés).

At least 2 of Juan's grandchildren were named Sebastián.

I read another post earlier this week that stated an unknown daughter of María Rubio and Diego Pérez (died late 1620's) had a son named "Juan Pérez." Could this son be the same person as my ancestor, Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo), who was probably born mid 1620s (about 1624)?

Any thoughts, advice or theories are welcome. 

Thank you. 

Best regards,

Travis