UPDATED:

[I deleted most of my original comment. Additional information is now available that makes my original theory untenable.]

Juana Gómez, Joachin Gómez, Ynes Gómez and Gaspar Gómez are all listed in the 1669 Padrón de Santa María de los Lagos as part of the household of Antonio de Aguirre and his wife, Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz (daughter of Pedro Gómez de Portugal and Isabel Ortiz de Anda):

estancia o casa de Antonio deaguirre
Ysavel Gomez Sumuger - ++
Juana gomez Soltera - ++
Pedro martin casado con - ++
Ynes gomez - ++
Joachin gomez - ++
gaspar gomez - ++
Magdalena Gutierres sumuger - ++

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KTXV

My family is descended from three of the four (Juana, Gaspar and Joachin), so the question of their identity is important to us. 

I originally proposed some or all of them were Isabel's children by a previous relationship. I was wrong. Newly discovered information now verifies the relationships between Juana, Joachin and Gaspar Gómez, as well as sets the estimated dates of birth for Juana and Gaspar back considerably to be more in line with the date of birth of Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz. She cannot be their mother, but may instead be their sister. 

A 1709 Dispensa Matrimonial establishes:

• Juana Gómez and Gaspar Gómez are hermanos.
• Joachin Gómez is Juana's son and Gaspar's nephew.
• Gaspar Gómez is married to Magdalena de Ayala AKA Gutiérrez AKA del Vargas (as seen in the 1669 padrón), and they share a son named Antonio.
• Maria Gómez is daughter of Joachin Gómez and Juana de Ysassi, and is granddaughter of Juana Gomez. She and her cousin, Antonio Gómez, are engaged to be married.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXG-6SW6-7

• Juana Gómez (hereafter referred to as Juana Gomez AKA de Anda) may be identified as Juana Gómez, daughter of Pedro Gómez de Portugal and Isabel Ortiz de Anda, and sister of Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz.
• Juana serves as madrina alongside her father, Pedro Gómez de Portugal, who is padrino in a 1663 baptism: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TV-1
• Gaspar Gómez is identified as Juana's brother in both the 1709 dispensa matrimonial above and in a 1635 baptism, where she is called Juana de Anda: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TH-J
• In the baptismal record for Gaspar's son Pedro Gómez, padrinos are "Pedro Gómez Portugal and Ysabel Ortiz": https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5BR-X
• In the 1674 marriage record of Gaspar's son, "Nicolás Gómez de Portugal," Gaspar is referred to as Gaspar Gómez de Portugal (Gaspar's 1st wife, Ana de Quesada, is stated to be deceased at this time): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KR24
• Nicolás Gómez de Portugal (son of Gaspar) marries María Díaz AKA de Ysassi, sister of Juana de Ysassi (wife of his 1st cousin Joachin Gómez, son of Juana Gómez AKA de Anda) and Ygnacio de Ysassi (husband of his half-sister Gertrudis Gómez):  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KR24

While I'm certain Ynes Gómez AKA Hortis (from the de Aguirre household in the 1669 padron) is related to this group, the nature of this relationship isn't yet determined.

____________

Below are transcriptions from the 1676 Padron de Lagos concerning the Aguirre and allied households and afterwards a tree with all sources cited.

Transcription of the household of Antonio de Aguirre and Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz, from image 49 of the 1676 Padron de Santa Maria de los Lagos:

Rancho de Ant.o deaguirre
Ant.o deAguirre Esp C++
Ysabel Ortiz ++
Joseph de aguirre S++
Ant.o Ortiz s++
Ju.o de aguirre Esp de 11años

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KYM7

From image 30 of the 1676 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos:

Cassa de Joseph Sanches
Joseph Sanches Esp C++ [husband of Aldonza Ortiz of about 4 years at this time]
Aldonza ortiz de Aguirre Esp++ [Aldonza uses both parents' surnames despite being born almost 10 years before their marriage in 1666] 
Nicolas de Aguirre niño de 9 años [son of Antonio de Aguirre and Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz, younger brother of Aldonza]
Pasqual Delacruz Y C++ [Servant?]
thereza Ma Y ++ [Servant?]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KYNC

From image 31 of the 1676 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos:

Cassa de Cat.n de Ortega
Cat.n de Ortega Esp V++  [Catalina de Ortega, viuda de Bartolome Martín]
Nicolas martín Esp s++ [son of Catalina de Ortega and Bartolome Martín]
P.o martín C++ Ynes gomes ++ [Pedro Martín, son of Catalina de Ortega and Bartolome Martín. Husband of Ynes Gómez]
Ysabel martin Esp s++ [daughter of Pedro Martín and Ynés Gómez, namesake of Isabel Gómez AKA Ortiz or Isabel Ortiz de Anda?]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9K8-KY6R

_______________

Below is a tree based upon the latest information:

***Unproven children in italics***

I'm descended from don Juan Cristobal de Luna y Tapía through a few of his children. He's the purchaser (1690s) of a piece of land in Lagos de Moreno, known as Cañada de los Indios Ricos (modern Cañada de Ricos).

 Any information on the following family would be helpful: 

1st generation: don Juan Cristobal de Luna y Tapía born about 1635 cc Beatris Inés. (Probable brother or 1st cousin of don Francisco de Luna born about 1637 and died abt. 1686, married doña Ana Catarina de la Cruz). 

2nd generation:

- Miguel Jacinto de Luna y Tapía born bef. 1652 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- Pasquala Magdalena de Luna y Tapía born before 1657 probably in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- don Patricio de Luna y Tapía born before 1666 probably in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco cc doña María de la Encarnación de Alarcon (AKA María de la Cruz). 

- Andrea de la Cruz (AKA Andrea de Luna) born before 1667 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- Cristobal de Luna y Tapía born about 1667 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- Rita de Luna born about May 1670 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- doña Alfonsa de Luna born about 1672 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

All the above are noted as INDIO in records, and many are noted as don, doña, cacique and/or principale, prior to and after the purchase of Cañada de Ricos. 

According to records, don Juan Cristobal de Luna y Tapía spoke Nahuatl. This fact, plus the marriage patterns of the next 2 to 3 generations of his family lead me to believe that the Luna y Tapía family were Tlaxcalan in origin not Otomi, as many suggest. 

Any information or theories about the de Luna y Tapía families of Cañada de Ricos, Encinillas and Ciénega de Mata are welcome. 

Thank you. 

Best, 

Travis

Decided to start a new thread on this: 

in an earlier post, Daniel Méndez Camino said: 

"Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas, my tenth great-grandfather, married Leonor González de Ruvalcaba, daughter of Juan González de Ruvalcaba and Leonor Franco de Paredes. I don't know if this Ornelas is related to the same family that settled in Los Altos, but I've only seen a few people with the surname Pérez de Ornelas; I don't know its origin."

My ancestor, Juan Pérez, AKA Juan de Santoyo, born about (or before) 1624 (probably in Lagos), had a probable relative named Gerónima de Ornelas. 

Listed in Juan's household in the 1669 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos is Gerónima de Ornelas, Viuda, living with Juan's widow, Antonia de Villegas, AKA Antonia de Mendoza, and their children (all of Juan and Antonia's known and suspected children assumed surnames of Santoyo, Pérez, Villegas and/or Mendoza).

I have no idea how Gerónima de Ornelas is related to Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo). Sister? Mother? Daughter? Daughter-in-law?

The order in which she is listed in the household infers she is not a servant but a relative. 

But i cannot help but think there may be a connection between my ancestor Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo) and Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas (who is also my ancestor thru his daughter Inés).

At least 2 of Juan's grandchildren were named Sebastián.

I read another post earlier this week that stated an unknown daughter of María Rubio and Diego Pérez (died late 1620's) had a son named "Juan Pérez." Could this son be the same person as my ancestor, Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo), who was probably born mid 1620s (about 1624)?

Any thoughts, advice or theories are welcome. 

Thank you. 

Best regards,

Travis

Many years ago I was extremely happy to locate a Guadalajara Marriage Dispensa for my direct ancestors Pedro de Santiago Rubio and his marriage with Marcelina Navarrete year 1715 in Guachinango. The record answered many questions however I have not advanced past the Dispensa. I have looked everywhere, and have followed the guidance of many over the years but still nothing new to advance me past the year 1715 record.  

I'm searching for information for Francisco de Santiago and his wife Barbara Rubio.  I have absolutely no information for them other than they were the parents of Pedro de Santiago Rubio as indicated on the dispensa.  I believe Barbara Rubio was living in Mascota before living in Guachinango.  I don't know when and where she married Francisco de Santiago. I estimate that Barbara Rubio was born approximately year 1665. And my best estimates are that Francisco de Santiago may be originally from Guachinango/Amatlan/Tepuzhuacan and born approximately year 1665.

Thank you community for your assistance.

Saludos,

Andy Rubio

This is going to sound like a paid advertisement so delete right now if it gives any of you that type of flavor. I've heard that AI can assist with genealogical research and I think it really can. Now the example I've listed below was for a very simple transcription/translation but the possibilities are there. Also there is a free version but I'm used the $49/year version which gives you a limit on usage per day almost double the free version but it also gives you access to the more advanced ai versions. Basically I went to Poe.com and subscribed to the "starter" version which gives you 10,000 points to use per day (use or lose). I've understood that the below example only used a small amount of points but just use the free version for simple examples. I simply asked it to translate the uploaded document (attached below) into English and preserve the original spellings of names and got the below. For us beginners who have limited Spanish this might be the or one of the tools to use:

Translate this into English and preserve original spellings of names. 

9:44 AM Claude-Opus-4.6 Thinking... Let me carefully transcribe and translate this Mexican Catholic baptismal record from the early 19th century. Let me read through the handwritten Spanish text:

 "En la Yglesia de Santa Maria a dies y nuebe de Henero de mil ochocientos onze. Yoel Presbitero D. Jose Thadeo Suares, Bautize solemnemente a Maria Guadalupe Española de Guacasso de quince dias de nacida en lunes. hija Legitima de Pedro Flores, y Maria Josefa Tamires, Abuelos Paternos Jose Flores, y Maria Ynes. Maternos Diego Ram[ire]z y Maria Luiza. Padrinos Dionicio Marquez y Maria Rafaela Aguiñes adverti su obligacion y parentesco Espiritual y para que conste lo firme con el Snr.

I'm seeing the signatures at the bottom—Cayetano de Ybarra and Dhé Thadeo Juarez—but let me re-examine the text more carefully since some of the handwriting is difficult to parse. Looking back at the opening, it appears the location might be Guadalajara rather than what I initially read, and I need to verify the exact spelling of some of the family names and dates. I'm parsing through this baptism record from 1811 in the Church of Santa Maria, identifying the key details: the priest Jose Thadeo Suares performed the ceremony for Maria Guadalupe, noting her racial designation as "Española" and her parents Pedro Flores and Maria Josefa Tamires, along with the godparents and their spiritual obligations. I'm realizing the "Guada" is likely just a line break interrupting a word, probably part of the year or an abbreviation rather than "Guadalajara." Given the citation references Santa María de los Angeles, the church name is already established, so I should focus on parsing the date itself—it appears to read January 19, 1811, with the text continuing across lines in a way that's fragmenting my initial reading. I'm second-guessing the line breaks and trying to parse where "Guadalajara" fits in—it could be a location reference in the margin or woven into the text itself. Looking more carefully at the structure, I think the date spans across lines, with the year "mil ochocientos onze" appearing on the second line, and the priest's name "Jose Thadeo Suarez" continuing from there. The margin notes seem to reference "Española" and "Guacasco," though I'm wondering if "Guadalajara" might actually be the parish location rather than what I initially thought.

Now I'm reconstructing the full baptism record—it appears to document the baptism of Maria Guadalupe on January 19, 1811, performed by Priest Jose Thadeo Suarez, with details about her parents, grandparents, and godparents, followed by signatures from the priest and the parish official. The second signature might read "José Thadeo Suarez" rather than what I initially parsed, and I'm working through the translation to capture the formal ecclesiastical language accurately. I'm working through the uncertain readings in this baptismal record—the mother's surname could be Ramirez rather than Tamires, and I need to verify the godparents' names more carefully, particularly whether the godfather is Marquez or something similar, and whether the godmother's surname is Aguiñes or Aquines. The signature at the end also needs clarification—it looks like it could be either Juarez or Suarez for the second signer.

Translation In the Church of Santa Maria, on the nineteenth of January of one thousand eight hundred and eleven [January 19, 1811], I, the Priest D. Jose Thadeo Suares, solemnly baptized Maria Guadalupe, Española [Spanish], from Guacasso, fifteen days old, born on a Monday, legitimate daughter of Pedro Flores and Maria Josefa Tamires. Paternal grandparents: Jose Flores and Maria Ynes. Maternal [grandparents]: Diego Ram[irez] and Maria Luiza. Godparents: Dionicio Marquez and Maria Rafaela Aguiñes. I advised them of their obligation and spiritual kinship, and so that it may be recorded, I signed it with the Señor Cura [parish priest]. [Signed] Cayetano de Ybarra — Jhé Thadeo Suarez ________________________________________ Notes: • "Española" refers to the colonial-era caste/racial classification indicating Spanish descent. • "Guacasso" appears to be the locality or rancho of origin. • The marginal annotations on the left read "Española" and "Guacasso." • The parish is Santa María de los Angeles, Jalisco, per the citation. 9:44 AM

Hello everyone! I’m very excited to be part of this group and am hoping for assistance in researching my family history.

I am searching for information about my grandfather, who lived and passed away in Los Angeles, California, in 1994. He lived under a different name in the United States, but I have some details about his family of origin in Mexico. His parents were Demetria Gomez and Celestino Martinez from Villa Obregón, Cañadas de Obregón, Mexico. I believe his birth name may have been Ventura Gomez Martinez, although this has not been officially confirmed. He also had a brother named Maximino Martinez. I knew Maximino and his family, but they are not aware of the earlier family history.

I have come across several family surnames in my research, including Martin, Martinez, Barajas, Gomez, and Reynosa. While I have found information on other members of the family, I have located only one record connected to Ventura Martinez.

I am hoping to connect with long-lost relatives or anyone who may have additional information. Any guidance or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Good day.

I would like to share a summary of the findings Jorge Barba Gómez and I addressed recently regarding Captain Diego Romo de Vivar (see Facebook).

In 2024, we discovered that the parentage attributed to Captain Diego Romo de Vivar for decades was incorrect. A baptismal record from Rielves, dated March 12, 1589, had been erroneously linked to him due to a paleographic error. That record actually identifies a Diego, son of Diego Alonso (written as "Diego Aº") and Catalina Pérez, not Diego Romo. This distinction is further confirmed by the file INQUISICION,1222,Exp.12.

Our latest research confirms that the Captain, while a resident of San Felipe, Guanajuato, the home of his wife’s family, the Rangel Peguero, had a brother named Alonso de la Fuente in 1630 (see Siglo XVIII Asuntos Varios: Morelia. Registros varios 1630). We have verified that he was indeed his brother, not his brother-in-law.

Furthermore, researcher Manny Diez shared a finding indicating that an Alonso de la Fuente, also a resident of San Luis Potosí, was a native of Torrijos. Given that Torrijos is only a few kilometers from Rielves and Fuensalida, this aligns geographically with where the Romo, Rincón, and Vivar surnames are concentrated.

In these surrounding villages, we also find the Fuentes de Fuensalida family (potentially "de la Fuente") intermarried with the Rincón, Romo, and Vivar lines For instance, Juan de Fuentes, who married Inés del Rincón, was the son of Pedro Rico and María Romo (PARES | Archivos Españoles). These families claimed kinship with one another in Nueva Galicia, forming a complex family network that spanned several towns, including Fuensalida, Rielves, Torrijos, Escalonilla, Quismondo, Borox and Maqueda.

These findings also highlight the importance of reviewing the link between this family and Captain Diego de la Fuente Rincón of San Luis Potosí, who was married to Teresa Pérez de Bocanegra y Arizmendi Gogorrón.

Best regards,

Erik Reynoso.

At this point, our family is descended from almost every child of Simon Báez (c1630-1659) and Maria de la Cerda (c1633-aft1690).

Our most recently discovered Báez ancestor is Ignacio Báez de la Cerna:

1st generation - Ignacio Báez de la Cerna (c1658-????) cc Juana Gutiérrez de Mendoza (c1661-????)

2nd generation - and then Ignacio and Juana's son, Francisco Báez (c1680-1702) cc  24 Aug 1701 to Catalina/Catharina de Salazer alias Beloso/Veloso, daughter of Antonio Beloso de Sotomayor and Teresa de Salazar, all Espanoles.

But who is Teresa de Salazar?

Many genealogists have Luis Lopez Ramirez and Sebastian Lopez Ramirez as brothers because Jaime Holcombe incorrectly  stated in his cartas that they were brothers.  They have even put this false information on wikitree and stated that it was a fact.  These two men are related through marriage, but they aren't brothers. I won’t go into how they are related by marriage here in order to not confuse the issue as my intent here is to show that they aren't brothers.

Luis Lopez Ramirez is the son of Luis Lopez and Isabel Sanchez.  This Luis Lopez Ramirez is married to Catalina Rubio, daughter of Pedro Hernandez and Maria Rubio.

Sebastian Lopez Ramirez, aka Sebastian Ramirez, is the son of Andres Lopez and Isabel Ramirez, and Sebastian’s wife, Ana de la Cueva aka Ana de la Cueva y Sandoval, is the daughter of Pedro Garcia de la Cueva and Maria Teresa Sandoval (Pedro is the son of Alonso Hernandez de Rebollar and Maria Hernandez de la Cueva).

Andres is the son of Alvaro Lopez and Catalina Lopez.

Alvaro Lopez is the son of Sancho (Sanchu) Lopez and Beatriz Gonzalez, and his wife Catalina is the daughter of Juan Lopez and Ines Lopez. (There are two couples named Juan Lopez and Ines Lopez in the family tree).

The credit for researching these families, and finding the correct genealogies, goes to Jorge Barba Gomez.. 

The evidence for these genealogies can be found in the book “López, López, López, y Otros, Toledanos en la Nueva Galicia” authored by Jorge Barba Gómez, 2025.”   Primary sources that include wills, letters between family members, and marriage dispensations were used to identify the family relationships.   

Rick A. Ricci