Nuestros Ranchos Site

Deedra Corona
There is a Rancho La Taberna near Union de Tula. The problem is that the files are not indexed. Nearly all of the people living there now have the last name of Perez. Good Luck

Hi Ani:

I think you're correct in the location of both places. My greatgrandfather was from La Huerta, Jalisco and people there commonly called it "La Huerta de Jesús María".
In my own experience, when you look back for records before the 1900's, it is very common to find the baptisms, marriages, etc. in Purificación or Autlán that are near from there.

Daniel

What has changed? I've already purchased it.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Joseph,
1.I vote for oriundo (native).
3.I vote Siras.

Goog Luck Mike.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Puentes"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:25 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Death Certificate Help Request

>
> Hi,
>
> I was hoping some could look at this record and give me your opinion of a
> couple of things I don't understand:
>
> http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/ranchos/PedroTorresDeath1158292v02p28(Fe…
>
> 1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de
> Aguascalientes"?
>
> 2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?
>
> 3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras??? I'm in
> doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so different.
> Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an "r" instead of
> an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in the document.
>
> 4) Does anyone doing research in Aguas have a Simon Torres married to an
> Ynes de Flores y ???
>
> thanks for your help,
>
> joseph
>
> ====================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)
>
>
>

Joseph,

The following is a transcription of your document. The question-marks
indicate words are that are hard to read on the microfilm. I corrected the
priest's misspellings like "beinte", "cepultura", "cegundas" etc.

Pedro de la Torre, Español
[?] vecino
--------------------------------
Alta 5 pesos
A.E.A.

En once [?] de febrero de ochocientos veinte y dos
yo, el Br. D. Fausto Antonio Velis, dí sepul-
tura Eclesiástica con entierro alto y fábrica de
cinco pesos al Cuerpo del adulto Pedro de la
Torre, Español oriundo de la Villa de Aguas
Calientes y vecino de esta Jurisdicción de Co-
lotlán, ha dos años, marido que fue de se-
gundas nupcias de María Josefa Ramí-
rez, é hijo legítimo de Simón de la Torre
y María Inés Flores de Lisar [?]: murió de
cólico é hizo Testamento habiendo recibido
los Sacramentos necesarios, y para que conste
lo firmé con el Señor Cura

Ignacio Suarez Fausto Antonio Velis

"oriundo" means "originario de". A.E.A could be an abbreviation of "Archivo
Eclesiástico Arzobispal" [?] or something like that. I believe Lisar is
written with a capital "L" while "legítimo" is written with low case "l".

Hope this helps,

Bill Figueroa

Hi Joseph:

Here's my 2 cents worth. I am sure somebody else will come up with the rest
of the information.

1- It says: " Oriundo de la villa de Aguascalientes" ( native of Ags.)

2-It looks like: :Uno de los Españoles ----- anteriormente vecino?" It is
posing a question.

3- If you look 4 lines above this line you'll see that it says:" vecino DE
esta Jurisdiccion" Therefore, the name I think is: "Maria de Flores DE ????

What to you looks like a "y" is actually the word: "de"

4- At the bottom of the document it says: " Para que conste lo firme con el
señor cura" If you look at the first letter of the word "señor" it has to
be an "s" and it looks very similiar to the first letter of her last name,
which I can't really make out what it is. Like you say , the last letter
could be an "r" or an "s" . to me it looks more like an "s"

I hope this will help.

John Gonzalez.

>> 1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de
> Aguascalientes"?
>
> 2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?
>
> 3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras??? I'm in
> doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so different.
> Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an "r" instead of
> an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in the document.

1) The word before that phrase is "oriundo", meaning "from" or "born in"

3) Looks like Lisar (maybe short for Lisarde)

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Joseph
Puentes
Enviado el: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:26 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Death Certificate Help Request

Hi,

I was hoping some could look at this record and give me your opinion of
a couple of things I don't understand:

http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/ranchos/PedroTorresDeath1158292v02p28(Feb1822
)Zoom.jpg

1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de
Aguascalientes"?

2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?

3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras??? I'm
in doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so
different. Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an "r"
instead of an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in the
document.

4) Does anyone doing research in Aguas have a Simon Torres married to an
Ynes de Flores y ???

thanks for your help,

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

La trate ahorita, y no tuve ninguna problema.
Roberto

Roberto Martinez

The system is a bit slow however it looks like more records were posted today.
Anisabel Santamaria

My moms side Villalpando appears Guanajuato, Zacatecas.. but originally from Spain.. my fathers side Dones and Hernandez San Luis Potosi, Venado. Which in researching the history everyone there came from Tlaxcala and Spain. I'm in the latter part of 1700's. My moms other side Velarde from Spain also.
Amalia Hernandez Aria

It is my understanding that the LDS church has a ritual "Baptism of the Dead" which is why they gathered on microfilm all the documentation from as many countries as they could.

I once used a computer at my local Family Search Center where an LDS member had left it on with their password activated. When I entered my grandfather's name to search for his ancestors, I was astounded to see an unfamiliar form come up, one that "sealed" my grandfather and all his ancestors to the LDS, not once but several times from different locations that the LDS has. He and his had been baptized as a Mormons!

When I demanded an explanation, I was told about the ritual requirement of LDS members and "sealing". I explained that my grandfather and his ancestors had all been baptized Catholic for centuries, and that perhaps he was rolling in his grave. I was told my grandfather could "choose" to remain Catholic.

So, despite the revelation that my grandfather might not be too pleased, I, however, am pleased about the ability to "know" my ancestors.

I realize that the whole system was set up for Mormons for their purpose without our input, and that we are the beneficiaries of a system to come up with family trees even if we can't have it our way. The system is theirs, faith-based, and not a government program to which we can have input.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:18:19 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes
>
> We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.
>
> During that time changes have been made to Record Search, the availability of records has dramatically increased, but new records have not been added to Pilot, and the functionality has been improved. There were things with the Pilot Search feature that I thought were better, although I have recently noticed that the Record Search search feature has changed also. I’m not sure how the system works with accented letters, for example. I have found I cannot put in words with accents, but the results may have accents, depending on how the data was entered.
>
> The advanced search works OK, but improvements could be made. The “match term exactly” check box seems to be “sort of” workable; I still get results that don’t match, but these seem to be separated from the others (ie, further down on the list).
>
> A feature I like is that I can copy text from Record Search results, but could not from Pilot.
>
> I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has been transferred to Record Search.
>
> The older IGI, which is still available, has some features that are nice, but once again, it has been rather limited in the available data, and some of the search features there are subject to rather arbitrary constraints. New data is not being added. “Limited” is perhaps an odd term; there are millions of records in the IGI, but there are billions at Record Search.
>
> I had considered the three systems complementary, rather than mutually exclusive, and developed some processes for effective and hopefully, thorough search. As Record Search continues to improve, the features that were in Pilot will seem less useful.
>
> I can see Record Search continuing to evolve. As many more records go online, the current structure for finding specific record sets is going to get unwieldy, so changes will need to be made.
>
> I can also envision the search functionality getting to be more sophisticated. I would like to see the addition of a wildcard search.
>
> Rather than complain, I would suggest we offer constructive comments. We should note that the developers must look at our suggestions in view of the bigger user group. A change that effects only a small set of users, while not addressing the larger issues is not a good use of resources. This also goes with what records are made available when. There are certain areas that I would really like to see, but they may be further down on the list, and will eventually get there. I was thrilled when Aguascalientes came on line, and was a little dismayed that Zacatecas was at the end of the alphabet. Needless to say, when it came on line, I was pleased. We need some patience.
>
> I look back at the hours I’ve spent at the old microfilm readers (not to mention the cost), and recall marking the spools of film with little pieces of paper so I could take it to the scanner/printer people to get a print, that was sometimes good, but more often not. The digital images we have today are really pretty amazing. We’ve come a long ways since then, and will continue to improve.
>
> I, for one, am truly grateful for the resources we have been given.
>
> George Fulton

I Second that.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:18:19
To:
Reply-to: general@nuestrosranchos.org, gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on Record Search changes

We have been told for some time that the Pilot Site would be going away eventually.

During that time changes have been made to Record Search, the availability of records has dramatically increased, but new records have not been added to Pilot, and the functionality has been improved. There were things with the Pilot Search feature that I thought were better, although I have recently noticed that the Record Search search feature has changed also. I’m not sure how the system works with accented letters, for example. I have found I cannot put in words with accents, but the results may have accents, depending on how the data was entered.

The advanced search works OK, but improvements could be made. The “match term exactly” check box seems to be “sort of” workable; I still get results that don’t match, but these seem to be separated from the others (ie, further down on the list).

A feature I like is that I can copy text from Record Search results, but could not from Pilot.

I would like to think that everything that was available in Pilot has been transferred to Record Search.

The older IGI, which is still available, has some features that are nice, but once again, it has been rather limited in the available data, and some of the search features there are subject to rather arbitrary constraints. New data is not being added. “Limited” is perhaps an odd term; there are millions of records in the IGI, but there are billions at Record Search.

I had considered the three systems complementary, rather than mutually exclusive, and developed some processes for effective and hopefully, thorough search. As Record Search continues to improve, the features that were in Pilot will seem less useful.

I can see Record Search continuing to evolve. As many more records go online, the current structure for finding specific record sets is going to get unwieldy, so changes will need to be made.

I can also envision the search functionality getting to be more sophisticated. I would like to see the addition of a wildcard search.

Rather than complain, I would suggest we offer constructive comments. We should note that the developers must look at our suggestions in view of the bigger user group. A change that effects only a small set of users, while not addressing the larger issues is not a good use of resources. This also goes with what records are made available when. There are certain areas that I would really like to see, but they may be further down on the list, and will eventually get there. I was thrilled when Aguascalientes came on line, and was a little dismayed that Zacatecas was at the end of the alphabet. Needless to say, when it came on line, I was pleased. We need some patience.

I look back at the hours I’ve spent at the old microfilm readers (not to mention the cost), and recall marking the spools of film with little pieces of paper so I could take it to the scanner/printer people to get a print, that was sometimes good, but more often not. The digital images we have today are really pretty amazing. We’ve come a long ways since then, and will continue to improve.

I, for one, am truly grateful for the resources we have been given.

George Fulton

Su biabuelo segun que yo encontre fue bautizado el 2 de junio de 1893 en la parroquia
de San Juan Bautista, San Juan de los Lagos.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Hi Maureen

I went to see the file you mentioned and I, as Angelina, didn’t see noting exceptional just the need of dispensation for the coupe because they were related in 3th grade. That means that they were may be cousins. You will more certain of their kinship when you´ll find their Guadalajara´s records. I transcribed the entire document 1 in Spanish (as you see my English in not handsome at all!) I hope this way it will be easier to understand.

In the second document the details are the same, but the date (16 and 30 sep) and the names of the couple. That´s odd more if you said they are father and son. Is it possible that they were brothers instead of father and son?

I attach here the document, good luck!

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=3926

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

Hello Mytmo,

I took a look at the images you mentioned and I did not see anything that
was worth pulling out. It looks like they are just a confirmations that the
dispensations were granted in Guadalajara. I would look for the original
dispensa in Guadalajara for any details on these marriages.

-Angelina-

-----Original Message-----
From: mytmo@netnitco.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:17 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation help for Father/Son Alviso back
toback dispensas

My Spanish is limited and I have found something curious. Mateo Alviso and
his son Calixto Alviso had back to back dispensas done and I need help with
the translation. Would someone be so kind to help me out? Mateo's dispensa
for his marriage to Casimira Vasquez is San Miguel el Alto 1832-1855 image
197 page 178 and his son Calixto to Atanacia Gallardo (aka Martin) image 198
page 179 (the next page) Here is the link:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Thank you for any help!

Paul,

I searched for that couple which gave me film 639756
https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api…

I searched for film 639756 which gave me Matrimonios 1690
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcatal…

I happened to have that in this spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtTSEvZUKl0ldDNURlNCWnFnQy…
which gave me an idea more or less which image number the marriage should be
found.

In the online images there is a volume Matrimonios 1690-1768

In that volume I found the record you are looking for -
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Saludos
Armando

2011/8/22

> I am researching my maternal 5th Great Parents Joseph Martin de Peña and
> Maria Rufina Ximenes. They were married 08 Nov 1761 in Nuestra Senora de los
> Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, MX. I am seeking the names of their parents.
> (It appears that records for this time period have been omitted from the LDS
> digitized Mexico Records.)
>
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Paul Gomez
> Rancho Cucamonga, CA

Si recuerdo bien, creo que Arturo Ramos en su libro tiene mencionado al
mismo Bartolomé Luna. Desafortunadamente no indica quien es su padre.
Encontre un señor de nombre Francisco Luna que puede ser el padre pero no
estoy seguro. No es mi linea, estaba ayudanda a alguin del grupo de apellido
Brit-Morris.

2010/5/26 Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez

>
> Hola compañeros, hace días leí que alguien quería saber quienes eran los
> padres de Sebastián de Luna y Josefa Lozano.
>
>
>
> Yo también necesito saber quienes son sus ancestros por lo que me puse a
> leer en el libro de Luz Montejano Hilton y en la página 131, extracto 709 se
> encuentra una dispensa en tercer grado de consanguinidad de Luis de Luna,
> hijo de Sebastián de Luna y Josefa Lozano, con María de Haro hija de
> Francisco de Haro y Cecilia de Haro Flores. En dicha dispensa se menciona
> que Sebastián de Luna y Cecilia de Haro Flores son primos hermanos por lo
> que me puse a investigar en familysearch y e hice algunas conclusiones,
> ojalá alguien nos pueda ayudar.
>
>
>
> A lo que pude concluir es que Sebastián de Luna puede ser hijo de Bartolomé
> de Luna y Lorenza Ortiz de Haro; y Cecilia de Haro Flores puede ser hija de
> Luis de Luna y Josefa de Haro y Esquivel. Yo creo que Bartolomé de Luna y
> Luis de Luna son hermanos; ¿Alguien de ustedes tiene algo sobre ellos?
>
> L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
> Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
> Tel.: 3781095311
> www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> ¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
> www.vivirmessenger.com

Thanks. I found a few also. While I was going through some of the early baptismal records I found a female that was baptised in 1650 and its noted that her parents were natives of the Haceinda de Villalpando.

Amalia Hernandez Arias

Hola

Creo que es importante situarse en el período de tiempo en que las actas son escritas.

Mientras más antiguas son, logran especificar mejor cual es la "calidad" de la persona,es decir: español, mestizo, indio y todas sus mezclas mulato, lobo, coyote, etc. Y para eso eso son interesantes las diferencias que se especifican y se pueden encontrar en Wikipedia.

Pero conforme se van acercoando los registros al final del período Virreinal, que termina en 1821, es más difícil para los párrocos diferenciar entre las diferentes mezclas raciales distintas al "español" (término que no necesariamente equivalía a blanco, sino que la persona lo parecía o tenía más prestigio) Y por eso a principios del siglo XIX se ve un poco más comúnmente usado el término "casta" para lo que no es "español" sin detallar si la persona es mulata, mestiza, lobo, coyote, etc.

Por último, la palabra tresalbo, deriva de tres=3 y albo=blanco y se usaba para los caballos que tenían tres patas blancas y en el caso de adjetivo racial lo he visto usado para mestizos o mulatos que debían ser bastante claros porque entre sus padres y abuelos había más blancos que indios o negros, pero había alguno de ellos que era indio o mulato.

Saludos,

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

Lance Gonzalez on "nuestros ranchos" website under "albums" and then "Mestizaje de Mexico (Castas)" is a detailed list of castas.

Are you sure it is an A at the end of Cast? It's most likely an abbreviation
for casitzo which is the child of an español(a) and a mestizo(a) .

Armando

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:42 AM, wrote:

> Does anyone know what the term "Caste" means on a marriage document? The
> one I have is as follows...
>
> "Jose Roberto Hernandez, Soldado Patrista del Resguardo de este Pueblo, de
> calidad Casta"
> It's where they ususally state their race.
>

Amalia here is my quick transcription:

En sinco deel mes de junio de seiscientos y setenta tres años en la yglesia parroquial de San Diego de León con licentia del padre [. . .] exorcisé puse el santo oléo baptisé y puse chrisma a Juan hijo legítimo de Juan de villalpando y de María de Oláez . Fueron padrinos Juan de Oláez y Theresa de Oláez, todos españoles y vecinos desta jurisdición.

[Rúbrica] Fr. Nicolás de la Parra

Daniel Méndez Camino

I also used FTDNA. It is cheaper if you join a project such as the Mexico
DNA project maintained by Gary Felix.
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA

You can join multiple projects such as the Mexico DNA project and surname
projects. What is the surname for your father in law from Teocaltiche?

Armando

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:09 AM, wrote:

> My father who is 76 yrs old (GGparents from Chihuahua) and my uncle is is
> 93 yrs old (GGparents from Sonora) and my father in Law 70 yrs old
> (Teocaltiche, Jalisco) have agreed to do DNA testing. Can anyone recommend a
> DNA service provider that they have used in the past. Looking for something
> priced reasonable with the most information returned. Thanks for your
> assistance. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

I also used Family tree DNA and then had it send to the Gary Felix site where he posts them.  My Mothers brother Gutierrez came back Haplogroup N and my Brother Castanon came back R1.. I was very happy with their service and recommend both sites
Linda in B.C.

From: "judyjauregui@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 10:09 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Testing - which provider is best?

My father who is 76 yrs old (GGparents from Chihuahua) and my uncle is is 93 yrs old (GGparents from Sonora) and my father in Law 70 yrs old (Teocaltiche, Jalisco) have agreed to do DNA testing. Can anyone recommend a DNA service provider that they have used in the past. Looking for something priced reasonable with the most information returned. Thanks for your assistance. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

To post, send email to:
research(at)nuestrosranchos.org

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Judy,
 
I've used Family Tree DNA
 
 Welcome To Family Tree DNA
90% of genealogists choose Family Tree DNA – with the largest DNA database.
As of August 19, 2011, we have a total of 343,677 records!
 
Good luck,
Alicia
San Jose, CA

From: "judyjauregui@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 10:09 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Testing - which provider is best?

My father who is 76 yrs old (GGparents from Chihuahua) and my uncle is is 93 yrs old (GGparents from Sonora) and my father in Law 70 yrs old (Teocaltiche, Jalisco) have agreed to do DNA testing. Can anyone recommend a DNA service provider that they have used in the past. Looking for something priced reasonable with the most information returned. Thanks for your assistance. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

To post, send email to:
research(at)nuestrosranchos.org

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Roberto,

I did a quick check on your great grandmother's line. I found Primotivo Bais baptized in Asientos, Aguascalientes
14 Jun 1845 son of Andres Bais and Antonia de Lira. Paternal grandparents: Jose Maria Bais, Petra Candelas and
Maternal Grandparents: Gregorio Candelas, Polonia Juarez. There is a town near Aguascalientes and Asientos
called El Agostadero, it's probably the same one mentioned in the crossing.

Tereso Sifuentes and Loreta Bais baptized their daughter Francisca 10 Mar 1898 in Monterrey, Nuevo Leon.
The PG were Isidoro Sifuentes and Luz Hernandez of the city of Zacatecas. The MG were Andres Bais and Antonia
de Lira of Asientos, Ags. Isidoro Sifuentes and Luz Hernandez baptized their son Jose Felipe 30 Aug 1863 in
the City of Zacatecas, Zac. It appears your family did some moving around. I have some lines in Zacatecas and
especially Asientos.

Hope this helps somewhat for now.

Daniel Méndez Camino