Dr.mt

Land deeds, and Birth records...

Published by V.Q.C. –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

In my family there are various stories of how ancestors had much land and cattle, and my grandfathers talk about their ancestors' land deeds on property (los papeles de los terrenos), or even sometime

Comments

Published by mendezdetorres – Mon, 2011-08-01 12:00 | Permalink

Comment

You can usually find these types of documents in the Ayuntamiento of the city or Notarias
for more modern cases possibly post 1865 with the reforms. For older cases the Archdiocesis
examples like Archdiocesis of Guadalajara under Tierra y Aguas.

I recently found out my mother's ancestor Pedro de Oviedo owned Hacienda La Labor (32.000 hectareas)
near Calvillo, Ags. From 1838 to the 1890s when they sold it. He had bought it for 20,000 pesos, at the same
time he bought from the Lopez Pimentel the Casa del Vinculo, which is used today as the government building
of Aguascalientes. The family sold it to the government sometime after 1850.

Stuff is out there you just need to hunt it down. I recently realized genealogy is not diffucult it just takes
time to build its momentum and patience.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Late nights

Published by jgmarentes –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

I read with such amusement the remarks made by fellow researchers on surprises, bewilderment, encouragement coming from their search.

Comments

Published by meef98367 – Mon, 2011-08-01 10:45 | Permalink

Comment

I'm glad to hear I am not the only one who falls asleep on the keyboard, and even in bed, I will hear a voice saying "look in---" and I will find some ancestor that I have been looking for.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: windmillbb@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:57:21 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights
>
> I read with such amusement the remarks made by fellow researchers on surprises, bewilderment, encouragement coming from their search. Some late, late nights I sit here with my head bobbing close to the keyboard and thinking "I am so tired and I have no clue where to go next" and all of a sudden there on the screen is something I was looking for or a lead as to where to look! That's when I can clearly hear my great-grandfather telling me, "Mijita, busca poquito mas, aqui estamos." I sure wake up quickly! You serious researchers know what I mean. Keep looking! The info is just around the corner!

Published by jcaguayo – Mon, 2011-08-01 09:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hang in there guys. I broke through one of my brick walls last Tuesday at 2am.

George's email is great considering he's looked for a Alejandra Saldana for
almost 30 years! Wow!

Alicia,

I also have an Olmos in my lineage from Nochistlan/Tlachichila. Maybe we can
collaborate on this one as well.

Juan Aguayo

------ Original Message ------
Received: 12:00 AM PDT, 08/01/2011
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "general@nuestrosranchos.org"
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

I need one of these late night surprises. I've been searching for the birth of
my elusive GG grandfather Prudencio Olmos Esparza.
 
 Prudencio Olmos who's children were born in Nochistlan had two families, the
first and smallest family with my GG grandmother Juana de Jauregui and the
second family was with his mistress, Maria Sigala. He and Juana de Jauregui
were married in Nochistlan Zac on 14 Jan, 1857. In the marriage record it says
his parents were Juan Olmos and Eulogia Esparza. Prudencio had two other
siblings, Antonio Olmos Esparza and Alejandra Olmos Esparza.
 
 I have the marriage records for the 3 siblings, Purdencio, Antonio and Maria
Alejandra but I haven't been able to find the birth records for any of them 
so I'm not sure where they were from because it doesn't appear that they were
born in Nochistlan Zac. I've begun the search in Villa Hidalgo and Teocaltiche
Jalisco where there are many Olmos but I haven't been able to find
them.............at least not YET??
 
This is a mystery to everyone in the hometown of Tlachichila Zac. There seemed
to be two Olmos families who intermarried but everyone always says and I
quote. Pero no somos de la misma familia Olmos, somos de los otros Olmos and
to this date I can't prove or disprove it. Are they the same Olmos or a
different Olmos family? The mystery remains, that is until I find their birth
records.
 
I know it's crazy to stay up until 3 AM searching for nights on end and
getting no where.
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: George Fulton
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; windmillbb@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

It is ironic to have received this e-mail today .... I just found Alejandra
Saldana, late last night (I was working until almost 3 AM!), for whom my wife
and I have searching since October 1983!

George

-----Original Message-----
From: windmillbb
To: general
Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:57 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

I read with such amusement the remarks made by fellow researchers on
surprises,

bewilderment, encouragement coming from their search.  Some late, late nights
I

sit here with my head bobbing close to the keyboard and thinking "I am so
tired

and I have no clue where to go next" and all of a sudden there on the screen
is

something I was looking for or a lead as to where to look!  That's when I can

clearly hear my great-grandfather telling me, "Mijita, busca poquito mas, aqui

estamos."  I sure wake up quickly!  You serious researchers know what I
mean. 

Keep looking!  The info is just around the corner!

Published by gpf13 – Sun, 2011-07-31 21:45 | Permalink

Comment

It is ironic to have received this e-mail today .... I just found Alejandra Saldana, late last night (I was working until almost 3 AM!), for whom my wife and I have searching since October 1983!

George

-----Original Message-----
From: windmillbb
To: general
Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:57 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

I read with such amusement the remarks made by fellow researchers on surprises,

bewilderment, encouragement coming from their search. Some late, late nights I

sit here with my head bobbing close to the keyboard and thinking "I am so tired

and I have no clue where to go next" and all of a sudden there on the screen is

something I was looking for or a lead as to where to look! That's when I can

clearly hear my great-grandfather telling me, "Mijita, busca poquito mas, aqui

estamos." I sure wake up quickly! You serious researchers know what I mean.

Keep looking! The info is just around the corner!

Comment

I need one of these late night surprises. I've been searching for the birth of my elusive GG grandfather Prudencio Olmos Esparza.
 
 Prudencio Olmos who's children were born in Nochistlan had two families, the first and smallest family with my GG grandmother Juana de Jauregui and the second family was with his mistress, Maria Sigala. He and Juana de Jauregui were married in Nochistlan Zac on 14 Jan, 1857. In the marriage record it says his parents were Juan Olmos and Eulogia Esparza. Prudencio had two other siblings, Antonio Olmos Esparza and Alejandra Olmos Esparza.
 
 I have the marriage records for the 3 siblings, Purdencio, Antonio and Maria Alejandra but I haven't been able to find the birth records for any of them  so I'm not sure where they were from because it doesn't appear that they were born in Nochistlan Zac. I've begun the search in Villa Hidalgo and Teocaltiche Jalisco where there are many Olmos but I haven't been able to find them.............at least not YET??
 
This is a mystery to everyone in the hometown of Tlachichila Zac. There seemed to be two Olmos families who intermarried but everyone always says and I quote. Pero no somos de la misma familia Olmos, somos de los otros Olmos and to this date I can't prove or disprove it. Are they the same Olmos or a different Olmos family? The mystery remains, that is until I find their birth records.
 
I know it's crazy to stay up until 3 AM searching for nights on end and getting no where.
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: George Fulton
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; windmillbb@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

It is ironic to have received this e-mail today .... I just found Alejandra Saldana, late last night (I was working until almost 3 AM!), for whom my wife and I have searching since October 1983!

George

-----Original Message-----
From: windmillbb
To: general
Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:57 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

I read with such amusement the remarks made by fellow researchers on surprises,

bewilderment, encouragement coming from their search.  Some late, late nights I

sit here with my head bobbing close to the keyboard and thinking "I am so tired

and I have no clue where to go next" and all of a sudden there on the screen is

something I was looking for or a lead as to where to look!  That's when I can

clearly hear my great-grandfather telling me, "Mijita, busca poquito mas, aqui

estamos."  I sure wake up quickly!  You serious researchers know what I mean. 

Keep looking!  The info is just around the corner!

Published by longsjourney – Mon, 2011-08-01 10:30 | Permalink

Comment

Alicia I had the same information from family when I started researching Castanon in Jerez, Zacatecas.  I was told there were two Castanon lines in el Durazno but they were not related.. one lived in upper and the other in lower el Durazno.. research proved both lines decended from Ylario Castanon 100 years before. My gr-grandfather said that poverty was the cause of ignorance but I find it amazing how they know they need dispensations for blood lines going back 4 and 5 generations when they don't remember the given names but know they are related.  Oral history was an amazing thing. 
 
I'm working on marriage information records for 1852 and only 1 in abt 50 knows how to read and write.
keep searching, we all know we don't do this work alone and the ancestors are waiting to be remembered and reclaimed and no doubt wake us in the middle of the night with a clue even when we don't understand it.
Linda in B.C.

From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "general@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

I need one of these late night surprises. I've been searching for the birth of my elusive GG grandfather Prudencio Olmos Esparza.
 
 Prudencio Olmos who's children were born in Nochistlan had two families, the first and smallest family with my GG grandmother Juana de Jauregui and the second family was with his mistress, Maria Sigala. He and Juana de Jauregui were married in Nochistlan Zac on 14 Jan, 1857. In the marriage record it says his parents were Juan Olmos and Eulogia Esparza. Prudencio had two other siblings, Antonio Olmos Esparza and Alejandra Olmos Esparza.
 
 I have the marriage records for the 3 siblings, Purdencio, Antonio and Maria Alejandra but I haven't been able to find the birth records for any of them  so I'm not sure where they were from because it doesn't appear that they were born in Nochistlan Zac. I've begun the search in Villa Hidalgo and Teocaltiche Jalisco where there are many Olmos but I haven't been able to find them.............at least not YET??
 
This is a mystery to everyone in the hometown of Tlachichila Zac. There seemed to be two Olmos families who intermarried but everyone always says and I quote. Pero no somos de la misma familia Olmos, somos de los otros Olmos and to this date I can't prove or disprove it. Are they the same Olmos or a different Olmos family? The mystery remains, that is until I find their birth records.
 
I know it's crazy to stay up until 3 AM searching for nights on end and getting no where.
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: George Fulton
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; windmillbb@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

It is ironic to have received this e-mail today .... I just found Alejandra Saldana, late last night (I was working until almost 3 AM!), for whom my wife and I have searching since October 1983!

George

-----Original Message-----
From: windmillbb
To: general
Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:57 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

I read with such amusement the remarks made by fellow researchers on surprises,

bewilderment, encouragement coming from their search.  Some late, late nights I

sit here with my head bobbing close to the keyboard and thinking "I am so tired

and I have no clue where to go next" and all of a sudden there on the screen is

something I was looking for or a lead as to where to look!  That's when I can

clearly hear my great-grandfather telling me, "Mijita, busca poquito mas, aqui

estamos."  I sure wake up quickly!  You serious researchers know what I mean. 

Keep looking!  The info is just around the corner!

Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO/BELASCO/TRILLO

Published by gloriad648 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO had another daughter, Rosalia, who was married 17 Jun 1761 to Francisco Xavier GUSMAN y PRADO.

Comments

Published by meef98367 – Sun, 2011-07-31 10:45 | Permalink

Comment

Gloria--

Thank you so much for this information. So that is four children we know of now for Nicolas Garcia and Maria SnJuan Villalpando. I am hoping that their marriage record will pop up someday.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gloriad@jps.net
> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:11:32 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO/BELASCO/TRILLO
>
> Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO had another daughter, Rosalia, who was married 17 Jun 1761 to Francisco Xavier GUSMAN y PRADO. See film in Ags Ags Sagrario Matrimonios 1759-1765, Image 137. Francisco Xavier GUZMAN y PRADO, español, hl de Nicolas de GUZMAN y PRADO y Maria de Jesus ALBARES Tostado, difunta; viudo de Ynes Guadalupe VALDES; con Rosalia Emerenciana GARSIA, esp, hl de Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO
>
> Gloria Delgado

Unqualified posting

Published by nbperez –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I am very disappointed that Lorraine Artinger
was able to post 3 unidentified entries which
are actually advertising and not related to
genealogy.

Comments

Published by makas_nc – Sat, 2011-07-30 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

I am disappointed as well. Sometimes members have their email addresses
hijacked and these messages go through. If any message ever comes to you
from the group with no subject and just a link assume the worst and just
delete. Never open the link.

Also please email me directly at joseph@nuestrosranchos.org and let me
know ASAP about these spam messages. I'm here to help but I'm just a
single person and to put it simply "I missed them"

I have suspended Lorraine Artinger's email privileges

I want to thanks Nancy Perez for bringing this to my attention. I hope
others will take the example and email me directly if you notice
something amiss in the group. I need help monitoring the discussion.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

nbperez@att.net wrote:
> I am very disappointed that Lorraine Artinger
> was able to post 3 unidentified entries which
> are actually advertising and not related to
> genealogy.

film records

Published by Joseph de Leon –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Is Nuestros Ranchos aware that their FILMS are not available to us members for viewing ???

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comments

Published by nancasillas – Fri, 2011-07-29 15:30 | Permalink

Comment

I was talking about films on the Family Search website, not nuestros ranchos.  Sorry I forgot to clarify.

----- Original Message -----
From: josecarlos1944@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 5:40:14 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] film records

Is Nuestros Ranchos aware that their FILMS are not available to us members for viewing ???

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comment

THE FILMS INS FAMILYSEARCH ARE AVAILABLE ON ON LINE AND FREE!!!!,

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 5:17 PM, wrote:

> I was talking about films on the Family Search website, not nuestros
> ranchos. Sorry I forgot to clarify.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: josecarlos1944@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 5:40:14 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] film records
>
> Is Nuestros Ranchos aware that their FILMS are not available to us members
> for viewing ???
>
> Jose Carlos de Leon

Comment

The folks at familysearch.org are working hard to get more images of Mexican records online, though only a small percentage of them has been digitized so far. However, relevant information from many filmed records has been extracted and can be searched online. (Some volunteers here at Nuestros Ranchos recently formed a team that is extracting data from several parishes in Jalisco.)

In the next few years many more records from all over the world that the LDS has micofilmed over the past sixty years will be extracted and will be searchable online, and with luck, most record images will be online too. But for a few more years, most records will still only be viewable on microfilm.

The microfilms, by the way, are NOT free. FIlms may be ordered from the Family History Library in Salt Lake City for a 6 week loan at any Family History Center for $5.50 each, and can be used only at the FHC. Any film renewed twice, for $5.50 and 6 weeks each time, then remains on permanent loan at that Family History Center.

~ Bert Paredes

Please see my profile for my Jalisco surnames. Also researching in San Luis Potosí and Tamaulipas.

@}-->----- @}-->----- {@} -----<--{@ -----<--{@
We can complain because roses have thorns,
or we can be happy because thorns have roses.

Need Help with Marriage Record for Jph. Cayetano Garcia

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Can someone please help me read the marriage record for Jph Cayetano Garcia to Anna Cleta Calzada that took place in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco on October 5, 1791 (image 142).

I think it s

Comments

Published by Jorge Elias – Wed, 2011-07-27 18:33 | Permalink

Comment

I am here again, yesterday I have a busy day, but at night, like a magic thing, I opened the Marriage Information book from Aguascalientes 1694. The first thing I Noticed was that the files were not ordered by date, starting in November or December … and I thought I will never find the record for Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando. I select some random numbers to fill the page´s blank and “viola” the third one was the one for them. Image: 189

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

I would like to find the record of Nicolas García and María San Juan Velasco, Trillo or Villalpando, but nothing yet.

I am sending you attached part of the transcription of the information record. I did not transcribe the full text because is repetitive, but still I wrote the important details. There are some interesting facts: Antonio has a beautiful signature, whereas Mariana (she was 20 years old) did not sign because “dijo no saber”. The first witness is Antonio´s own father: Felipe de Trillo, 58 years old.

It is interesting the second last name of Mariana (Gardea, or Lozano de Gardea), I have never heard it. At first time I thought it was García, but the other records reassure the spelling Gardea and not Garcia. I fund Mariana´s death certificate from January 29, 1746. She approximately was 72 years old when she died, but the record don’t register the cause.

This is the link to the file:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

And I attached the transcription too.

As I said you, I could not find the marriage record for Nicolas García and María San Juan Belasco or Trillo, or Villalpando but we have three possible children:

1. Our José or Pedro Cayetano

2. María Catarina Dololres (4 may 1726)

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
Padrinos: Juan Silva Noroña? And Maria Dolores (no last name)

3. María Teresa de Jesus (24 Oct 1740)
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Padrinos: Bernardo de Trillo y Gertrudis Villalpando!

Concerning the Testamentaria Histórica, I see the post is from 2006, I really do not know if the user Ferero still active in nuestros ranchos, but I already leave it a comment, I will let you know.

I have never attached a file, let me know if you can get both files:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=3895
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=3896
Jorge Elias

Comment

Jorge,

Thank you so much again for finding this information.

Yes, I was able to open the links you sent. I couldn't open them at first, but I got a message that I needed to download a compatability pack because you have the newer Microsoft Word 2007, and I have the old 2003.

Thank you so much for transcribing the records. I appreciate it very much.

Agradecida,

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:33:19 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Antonio Trillo y Mariana Villalpando
>
> I am here again, yesterday I have a busy day, but at night, like a magic thing, I opened the Marriage Information book from Aguascalientes 1694. The first thing I Noticed was that the files were not ordered by date, starting in November or December … and I thought I will never find the record for Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando. I select some random numbers to fill the page´s blank and “viola” the third one was the one for them. Image: 189
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> I would like to find the record of Nicolas García and María San Juan Velasco, Trillo or Villalpando, but nothing yet.
>
> I am sending you attached part of the transcription of the information record. I did not transcribe the full text because is repetitive, but still I wrote the important details. There are some interesting facts: Antonio has a beautiful signature, whereas Mariana (she was 20 years old) did not sign because “dijo no saber”. The first witness is Antonio´s own father: Felipe de Trillo, 58 years old.
>
> It is interesting the second last name of Mariana (Gardea, or Lozano de Gardea), I have never heard it. At first time I thought it was García, but the other records reassure the spelling Gardea and not Garcia. I fund Mariana´s death certificate from January 29, 1746. She approximately was 72 years old when she died, but the record don’t register the cause.
>
> This is the link to the file:
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> And I attached the transcription too.
>
> As I said you, I could not find the marriage record for Nicolas García and María San Juan Belasco or Trillo, or Villalpando but we have three possible children:
>
> 1. Our José or Pedro Cayetano
>
> 2. María Catarina Dololres (4 may 1726)
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
> Padrinos: Juan Silva Noroña? And Maria Dolores (no last name)
>
> 3. María Teresa de Jesus (24 Oct 1740)
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> Padrinos: Bernardo de Trillo y Gertrudis Villalpando!
>
> Concerning the Testamentaria Histórica, I see the post is from 2006, I really do not know if the user Ferero still active in nuestros ranchos, but I already leave it a comment, I will let you know.
>
> I have never attached a file, let me know if you can get both files:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=3895
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=3896
> Jorge Elias
>
>

Comment

Jorge

I have also been troubled by the fact that the matrimonial investigations are in such a disarray. After going back and looking through the same volume more than once, I decided to create an index for them.

I have gone through the volumes through 1720, and have posted them on Nuestros Ranchos:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18014

The lists gives the documents in chronological order. The lists are pdf files, and are searchable. But please note, that the names were recorded as spelled in the original document. For example, Garcia could be listed as Garsia or Garzia. The list will give the image number reference to the files as listed on Family Search.

The matrimonial investigations are not complete, and are not in order. Sometimes you will find a document that is years out of order. The link above will give you all the details.

You are welcome to download the files, and print them, but they are well over 200 pages.

I am working on the period after 1720, and will also post that when done.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Le pido disculpa Jorge, ya que te mencioné en otro post como Elías pero ahora me di cuenta que es su apellido.

Estimado Jorge,

Mi línea de Trillo que he estudiado es lo siguiente:
D. Juan Manuel de Trillo bautizado en Aguascalientes el 2 de noviembre de 1695 y casado en el Sagrario de Aguascalientes el 12 de abril de 1723 con Da. Juana de Jesús Pérez-Gallo, dicha familia con sus orígenes en Bilbao, Vizcaya en País Vasco.

Juan Manuel era hijo de D. Antonio de Trillo y Da. Mariana de Villalpando, dichos casaron el 25 de julio de 1666 en Aguascalientes. Antonio era hijo de D. Felipe de Trillo patriarca y fundador de su linaje en México y Andrea Macías Valadés también parece como Castañeda. No tengo más de ellos. En efecto, Mariana de Villalpando era hija de D. Diego de Villalpando y Da. Isabel Lozano de Gardea.

Lozano de Gardea era apellido compuesto cuando los padres de Isabel casaron. D. Cristóbal Lozano y Da. Mariana López de Gardea, motivo para nombrar su nieta, Mariana de Villalpando. Cristóbal era nieto del ilustre regidor de Zacatecas. El apellido Lozano de Gardea sobrevivió grandemente hasta el siglo XIX. Sin embargo, hoy en día si se puede encontrar en Aguascalientes.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comment

Hola Daniel no hay necesidad de pedir disculpas, a lo largo de mi vida me han dicho muchas veces Elias pensando que es mi nombre. Mi Tatarabuelo zacatecano se llamaba José Carmen y sus apellidos eran Elías Jaime. ¡Cuatro nombres para escoger!.

Muy interesante lo que dices sobre la familia Trillo. Lo que quiere decir que María San Juan era hermana de Juan Manuel de Trillo, no hemos podido encontrar su partida de nacimiento o tal vez pueda ser una de las que menciona Emilie, pero ¿de dónde provendrá lo de Belasco que le aparece en algunos documentos?

No había oído el apellido Gardea en un primer momento pensé que era García y transcribí el documento colocando García, pero después me percaté que era Gardea y además compuesto Lozano de Gardea. De ambas partes de mi genealogía, paterna y materna he encontrado apellidos compuestos, por el lado de mi padre el de Ruiz de Esparza y por el lado materno Rodrígez de Montemayor, pero mi tatarabuelo solo lo llevó de manera simplificada Rodrígiuez sin Montemayor como su Madre.

Hace un tiempo pensaba que encontrar mis raíces genealógicas era una misión imposible, estoy asombrado de la cantidad de información que se puede encontrar on Line,

Muchas gracias Daniel por tus comentarios creo que ayudarán a que Emilie continue profundizando en su genealogía. Hasta pronto.

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

Comment

Hola, Daniel,

You had said that Dn. Felipe/Phelipe de Trillo was "patriarca y fundador de su linaje en Mexico" with parents born in Spain. Do you know who his parents were, and how to trace them in Spain?

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:56:25 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hola Daniel, algo sobre María San Juan de Trillo
>
> Hola Daniel no hay necesidad de pedir disculpas, a lo largo de mi vida me han dicho muchas veces Elias pensando que es mi nombre. Mi Tatarabuelo zacatecano se llamaba José Carmen y sus apellidos eran Elías Jaime. ¡Cuatro nombres para escoger!.
>
> Muy interesante lo que dices sobre la familia Trillo. Lo que quiere decir que María San Juan era hermana de Juan Manuel de Trillo, no hemos podido encontrar su partida de nacimiento o tal vez pueda ser una de las que menciona Emilie, pero ¿de dónde provendrá lo de Belasco que le aparece en algunos documentos?
>
> No había oído el apellido Gardea en un primer momento pensé que era García y transcribí el documento colocando García, pero después me percaté que era Gardea y además compuesto Lozano de Gardea. De ambas partes de mi genealogía, paterna y materna he encontrado apellidos compuestos, por el lado de mi padre el de Ruiz de Esparza y por el lado materno Rodrígez de Montemayor, pero mi tatarabuelo solo lo llevó de manera simplificada Rodrígiuez sin Montemayor como su Madre.
>
> Hace un tiempo pensaba que encontrar mis raíces genealógicas era una misión imposible, estoy asombrado de la cantidad de información que se puede encontrar on Line,
>
> Muchas gracias Daniel por tus comentarios creo que ayudarán a que Emilie continue profundizando en su genealogía. Hasta pronto.
>
> Jorge Elias
> Miami, FL

Published by Jorge Elias – Sun, 2011-07-24 12:33 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Emily,

Yesterday I found the marriage information for Cayetano García and Theresa Ortiz. More details to analyse.

https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…

Even though there are some inconsistencies, could be the same Cayetano that years later get married to Anacleta.

Datos a favor:

a) Obviously his name and the name of his wife Teresa Ortiz,
b) the names of his parents except the second name of his mother Villalpando instead of Trillo,
c) his age 25 years
d) his mother is "difunta"

Datos en contra

a) Here he said he is from la Villa de Aguas Calientes in the other file he said he is "originario de esta Villa" (Encarnación).
b) the last name of his mother does not match.
b) He did not sign.

I think these three references do not discard the possibility that both are the same person.

If this Cayetano is the same person that years later get married to Anacleta, he was born in la Villa de Aguascalientes and moved to Lagos at age of 16 and later he moved to Encarnación. These three towns are relatively close. The fact that his mother was already death when he was young, explain the other fact that it is not easy to find more brothers and sisters of him (but this is only my speculation) And explain too the variable use of his mother last name (speculation too).

Le deseo buena suerte en su investigación, a mi me es muy plasentero porder ayudar cuando me es posible.

Jorge Elias

Comment

Jorge, again I thank you so much for your help in my research. It is hard for me to look through the images because of my poor eyesight and because I don't understand all the words in Spanish. I usually look for people in the index, and the Informacion Matrimonial doesn't have an index, I guess. Also, people back then in Mexico seemed to change their names like we change our socks. Every document, a different surname.

I agree that this Informacion Matrimonial is for my husband's ancestors.

In his marriage to Anna Cleta Calzada, he is called Jph. Calletano, and I think I found his baptism record under Pedro Cayetano Garcia Belasco who was baptized on May 11, 1738 (image 17) in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, and was born "en esta Villa" on April 26, 1738. It lists his parents as Nicolas Garcia and Maria SnJuan Belasco. His padrinos were Br [?] Dn. Phelipe de Trillo and Da. Maria Gertrudis de Trillo. I am sure this is my husband's ancestor. But where does the Belasco come from? In other documents, Maria de San Juan is called de Trillo. The women used so many different surnames.

Thank you so much again; te agradesco mucho. Dios te bendiga,

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 12:33:42 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Informacion Matrimonial Cayetano Garcia y Teresa Ortiz
>
> Hello Emily,
>
> Yesterday I found the marriage information for Cayetano García and Theresa Ortiz. More details to analyse.
>
> https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…
>
> Even though there are some inconsistencies, could be the same Cayetano that years later get married to Anacleta.
>
> Datos a favor:
>
> a) Obviously his name and the name of his wife Teresa Ortiz,
> b) the names of his parents except the second name of his mother Villalpando instead of Trillo,
> c) his age 25 years
> d) his mother is "difunta"
>
> Datos en contra
>
> a) Here he said he is from la Villa de Aguas Calientes in the other file he said he is "originario de esta Villa" (Encarnación).
> b) the last name of his mother does not match.
> b) He did not sign.
>
> I think these three references do not discard the possibility that both are the same person.
>
> If this Cayetano is the same person that years later get married to Anacleta, he was born in la Villa de Aguascalientes and moved to Lagos at age of 16 and later he moved to Encarnación. These three towns are relatively close. The fact that his mother was already death when he was young, explain the other fact that it is not easy to find more brothers and sisters of him (but this is only my speculation) And explain too the variable use of his mother last name (speculation too).
>
> Le deseo buena suerte en su investigación, a mi me es muy plasentero porder ayudar cuando me es posible.
>
> Jorge Elias
>

Comment

Hi Emily, This is a very interesting research for me. The second last name of my Mother is Garcia too, but Garcia is a frequent last name. My grandmother was from Montemorelos NL (a beautiful blond and blue eyes old lady, at least thus is the way as I remember her). I have been tracking her ancestors since almost two years and I could find that across her maternal line she was related to the founders of Guadalajara, but always selecting the maternal side. I need to do some DNA test and compare them with other people of the same branch to prove if my research is correct. But that is another story.

About the baptism record you fund I have some comments,

a) It is possible that this Pedro Cayetano is the same Joseph Cayetano, even though the date is a little old for ”our” Cayetano. I think could be him, or an older brother. I found in my genealogy that my 3 grand parents had 3 sons with the same name (the oldest died as a baby, but the other two reach adulthood in a little town in Nuevo Leon).

b) The coincidence in the names of Cayetano´s parents and the last name of the godparents is a clue to connect both Cayetanos. And could be possible that Cayetano was related to his godparents and that´s the reason why he used some times their last name Trillo.

c) The abbreviation Br means “bachiller” (bachelor), but generally in that time the title was given to priests or individuals in ecclesiastical studies. There is a Priest with that name (Felipe de Trillo) appearing in a testament of 1762 that was listed in this very page. You can see it in the comments of this link here in Nuestos Ranchos:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15334

Actually, if you see the signature in the baptism record of Pedro Cayetano you can notice the same title to Br. Vicente Anastacio Preciado that was “teniente del Cura”of Dr. Don Manuel Colon in the same record. The godmother, Gertrudis de Trillo, could be the sister of “bachiller” Felipe de Trillo.

le deseo una buena semana,

Jorge Elias

Comment

Jorge,

I am glad that you find my research interesting, because you are helping me a lot.

Yes, I wondered about the name Garcia being so common, and how I can trace it farther back, maybe even to the first one of my husband's ancestors who came to the new world from Spain. I was hoping they would use combined names such as Garcia de Noriega, Garcia de la Cadena, etc. but so far they only use the Garcia name.

In the Informacion Matrimonial I read for Cayetano, I read that his mother's parents were Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando, and I found several children for them in the bautismos, but not one named Maria de San Juan. There is a Jua. Maria (female) born in 1712, so that may be her. They also had a son Phelipe (Felipe) so maybe he is the one who became a priest.

The parents of Antonio Trillo were Phelipe de Trillo and Andrea Balades. The parents of Mariana were Diego de Villalpando and Ysabel Lozano de Gardea.

I wondered if the "Br." was a title, now thanks to you I know what it means.

Yes, I agree that Pedro Cayetano was quite a bit older than the age Calletano gave for his Diligencia, but could he have shaved off a few years in light of the fact that he was marrying a girl of 18? Also, in many census records here in the US which is taken every ten years, the ages they give each time are very much off their real birth dates. Of course, it could be also that Nicolas Garcia had two sons with similar names---Pedro Cayetano and Jph. Calletano.

I think that Antonio Trillo had a brother named Bernardo Trillo who married a Gertrudis Villalpando because that couple appears as godparents for some of Antonio's children. So two brothers of one family married two sisters of a neighboring family. I know that that was common then when families were very large and people stayed in the same community for generations.

Thank you so much for that link to the Testamentaria Historica. Besides the Trillo name, I also see mentioned other ancestral names of my husband's: Lozano, Lopez, Valdez, Esparza, Cervantes, Villalobos, Reyes, Munoz, Leon. I wonder how I could get copies of the stories. Hoever, if they are not transcribed, I probably wouldn't be able to read them.

Thank you again so much for your assistance,

Emilie
---------------------------------------

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com

> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:38:44 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Br. Felipe de Trillo
>
> Hi Emily, This is a very interesting research for me. The second last name of my Mother is Garcia too, but Garcia is a frequent last name. My grandmother was from Montemorelos NL (a beautiful blond and blue eyes old lady, at least thus is the way as I remember her). I have been tracking her ancestors since almost two years and I could find that across her maternal line she was related to the founders of Guadalajara, but always selecting the maternal side. I need to do some DNA test and compare them with other people of the same branch to prove if my research is correct. But that is another story.
>
> About the baptism record you fund I have some comments,
>
> a) It is possible that this Pedro Cayetano is the same Joseph Cayetano, even though the date is a little old for ”our” Cayetano. I think could be him, or an older brother. I found in my genealogy that my 3 grand parents had 3 sons with the same name (the oldest died as a baby, but the other two reach adulthood in a little town in Nuevo Leon).
>
> b) The coincidence in the names of Cayetano´s parents and the last name of the godparents is a clue to connect both Cayetanos. And could be possible that Cayetano was related to his godparents and that´s the reason why he used some times their last name Trillo.
>
> c) The abbreviation Br means “bachiller” (bachelor), but generally in that time the title was given to priests or individuals in ecclesiastical studies. There is a Priest with that name (Felipe de Trillo) appearing in a testament of 1762 that was listed in this very page. You can see it in the comments of this link here in Nuestos Ranchos:
>
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15334
>
> Actually, if you see the signature in the baptism record of Pedro Cayetano you can notice the same title to Br. Vicente Anastacio Preciado that was “teniente del Cura”of Dr. Don Manuel Colon in the same record. The godmother, Gertrudis de Trillo, could be the sister of “bachiller” Felipe de Trillo.
>
> le deseo una buena semana,
>
> Jorge Elias
>

Published by Jorge Elias – Fri, 2011-07-22 21:01 | Permalink

Comment

Calletano Garcia, según se ve en el informe matrimonial sabía escribir, pues firma su declaración Calletano Garcya. Algo muy poco común en la época. Era muy poca la gente que escribía a mediados del siglo XVIII. Definitivamente no puede ser hijo de la pareja de Colotlan, creo yo. Estudiar el documento completo, las declaraciones de la novia y los testigos sin duda le aportará datos nuevos muy interesantes.

Buena suerte,

Jorge Elias

Published by Jorge Elias – Fri, 2011-07-22 20:49 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Emilie,

Looking this other post I thinking the Indian couple Nicolas and Maria San Juan from Colotlan is not the same as the one parents of this Cayetano García. I do not know if you already found the file in the Marriage Information for Cayetano Garcia and Anacleta Calzada. There, the letter is more clear and comprehensible. It is in image 163 This is the direct link:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Jose Calletano Garcia Español Originario y Vecino de esta Villa de 46 años hijo legítimo de Nicolás García y de Maria San Juan de Trillo (ya difuntos) viudo de Teresa Ortiz

Anacleta Calzada española de 18 años de San Juan vecina de esta villa del Puesto de Santa María hija legítima de Matheo Calzada y Barbara Martin.

Buena Suerte and you are alright acaudalado means wealthy

Jorge Elías

Comment

Jorge,

I am so happy to receive your e-mail here. No, I had not found the Informacion Matrimonial, only the Matrimonio. The Matrimonios are in the index, but the Informacion is not.

God Bless You! You have shown me six pages of information, with so many interesting facts, such as that Calletano was literate, at least he could sign his name! and no, now I know for sure the couple from Colotlan are not my husband's ancestors.

Another interesting fact I found in reading the declaraciones is that a witness Sevastian Gonzales was Anna Cleta's uncle and the grandfather of her daughter-in-law. Celletano and Anna Cleta had a son, Jose Maria Garcia who married Maria Gregoria Morones on June 10, 1818 in Encarnacion. Gregoria's mother was Ygnacia Gonzales, the daughter of Sevastian Gonzales!

Thank you again so much for the research you have done for me,

Muy agradecida,

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 20:46:09 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Informe Matrimonial
>
> Hi Emilie,
>
> Looking this other post I thinking the Indian couple Nicolas and Maria San Juan from Colotlan is not the same as the one parents of this Cayetano García. I do not know if you already found the file in the Marriage Information for Cayetano Garcia and Anacleta Calzada. There, the letter is more clear and comprehensible. It is in image 163 This is the direct link:
>
> https://familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.fami…
>
> Jose Calletano Garcia Español Originario y Vecino de esta Villa de 46 años hijo legítimo de Nicolás García y de Maria San Juan de Trillo (ya difuntos) viudo de Teresa Ortiz
>
> Anacleta Calzada española de 18 años de San Juan vecina de esta villa del Puesto de Santa María hija legítima de Matheo Calzada y Barbara Martin.
>
>
> Buena Suerte
>
>
> Jorge Elías
>

Comment

Emily, like you I am so grateful for the help and generosity of Ranchos members
to share and help each other.

Joseph and Arturo you set up a forum that has helped so many reclaim lost long
ancestors.
thank you
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, July 23, 2011 10:57:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Informe Matrimonial

Jorge,

I am so happy to receive your e-mail here.  No, I had not found the Informacion
Matrimonial, only the Matrimonio.  The Matrimonios are in the index, but the
Informacion is not.

God Bless You!  You have shown me six pages of information, with so many
interesting facts, such as that Calletano was literate, at least he could sign
his name!  and no, now I know for sure the couple from Colotlan are not my
husband's ancestors. 

Another interesting fact I found in reading the declaraciones is that a witness
Sevastian Gonzales was Anna Cleta's uncle and the grandfather of her
daughter-in-law.  Celletano and Anna Cleta had a son, Jose Maria Garcia who
married Maria Gregoria Morones on June 10, 1818 in Encarnacion.  Gregoria's
mother was Ygnacia Gonzales, the daughter of Sevastian Gonzales!

Thank you again so much for the research you have done for me,

Muy agradecida,

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 20:46:09 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Informe Matrimonial
>
> Hi Emilie,
>
> Looking this other post I thinking the Indian couple Nicolas and Maria San Juan
>from Colotlan is not the same as the one parents of this Cayetano García. I do
>not know if you already found the file in the Marriage Information for Cayetano
>Garcia and Anacleta Calzada. There, the letter is more clear and comprehensible.
>It is in image 163 This is the direct link:
>
>https://familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.fami…
>2
>
> Jose Calletano Garcia Español Originario y Vecino de esta Villa de 46 años hijo
>legítimo de Nicolás García y de Maria San Juan de Trillo (ya difuntos) viudo de
>Teresa Ortiz
>
> Anacleta Calzada española de 18 años de San Juan vecina de esta villa del
>Puesto de Santa María hija legítima de Matheo Calzada y Barbara Martin.
>
>
> Buena Suerte
>
>
> Jorge Elías
>

Published by Armando – Tue, 2011-07-19 15:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Emilie,

You should look for the información matromonial to see if there is more info
there
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

The marriage document says:

...Jph Cayetano Garcia español originario y vecino de esta feligresía en Sta
Barbara hijo legitimo de Nicolas Garcia y de Maria de San Juan de ¿Tello? y
viudo de Teresa de Ortiz ha un año con Anna Cleta Calzada española
originaria de San Juan y vecina de esta feligresía ha cuatro años hija
legitima de Mateo Calzada y de Maria Barbara de la ?...
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Anna Cleta Calzada was born 03 Aug 1772 in San Juan but is described as
india in that document
https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…

Cayetano Garcia and Teresa Ortiz were married 29 Jan 1769 in Lagos de Moreno
and it shows Cayetano as being originally from Aguascalientes and the son of
Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan Villalpando.
https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…

I can't find anything on Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan Villalpando or
Trillo or Tello.

Armando

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:54 AM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

>
>
> Can someone please help me read the marriage record for Jph Cayetano Garcia
> to Anna Cleta Calzada that took place in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco on
> October 5, 1791 (image 142).
>
> I think it says he was from Santa Barbara (and Santa Maria?), and was the
> son of Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan. I also think it says he was
> the widower of someone named Ortiz?
>
> Anna Cleta was from San Juan, and her parents were Matheo Calzada and Maria
> Barbara de la [?].
>
> Alquien puede leer y decirme que dice este documento del matrimonio de Jph
> Cayetano Garcia con Anna Cleta Calzada, en Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco, 5
> Octubre, 1791 (image 142).
>
> Thank you/gracias,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, Washington State, EU
>
>

Comment

Armando---thank you so much for doing that extra research for me. I feel I am hitting the jackpot here with everyone's help.

Emilie

> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:19:44 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need Help with Marriage Record for Jph. Cayetano Garcia
>
> Hello Emilie,
>
> You should look for the información matromonial to see if there is more info
> there
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> The marriage document says:
>
> ...Jph Cayetano Garcia español originario y vecino de esta feligresía en Sta
> Barbara hijo legitimo de Nicolas Garcia y de Maria de San Juan de ¿Tello? y
> viudo de Teresa de Ortiz ha un año con Anna Cleta Calzada española
> originaria de San Juan y vecina de esta feligresía ha cuatro años hija
> legitima de Mateo Calzada y de Maria Barbara de la ?...
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> Anna Cleta Calzada was born 03 Aug 1772 in San Juan but is described as
> india in that document
> https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…
>
> Cayetano Garcia and Teresa Ortiz were married 29 Jan 1769 in Lagos de Moreno
> and it shows Cayetano as being originally from Aguascalientes and the son of
> Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan Villalpando.
> https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…
>
> I can't find anything on Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan Villalpando or
> Trillo or Tello.
>
> Armando
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:54 AM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Can someone please help me read the marriage record for Jph Cayetano Garcia
> > to Anna Cleta Calzada that took place in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco on
> > October 5, 1791 (image 142).
> >
> > I think it says he was from Santa Barbara (and Santa Maria?), and was the
> > son of Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan. I also think it says he was
> > the widower of someone named Ortiz?
> >
> > Anna Cleta was from San Juan, and her parents were Matheo Calzada and Maria
> > Barbara de la [?].
> >
> > Alquien puede leer y decirme que dice este documento del matrimonio de Jph
> > Cayetano Garcia con Anna Cleta Calzada, en Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco, 5
> > Octubre, 1791 (image 142).
> >
> > Thank you/gracias,
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, Washington State, EU
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Published by dpdelgadol – Tue, 2011-07-19 15:00 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Emilie,

I have typed what my old eyes see for you.

... Joseph Cayetano Garcia Español originario y vecino de esta feligresia en Santa Barbara Hijo lexitimo de Nicolas Garcia y de Maria de San Juan de Trillo y viudo de Thereza Ortis ha[ce] un año con Anna Cleta Calzada española originaria de San Juan y vecina de esta Feligresia ha[ce] quatro años hija lexitima de Matheo Calzada y de Maria Barbara de [So Mayor ?] ...

I think that the Sta. Maria in the margin refer to where the bride lives now. Hope this helps.

David from Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Emilie Garcia
>Sent: Jul 19, 2011 1:54 AM
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need Help with Marriage Record for Jph. Cayetano Garcia
>
>
>
>Can someone please help me read the marriage record for Jph Cayetano Garcia to Anna Cleta Calzada that took place in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco on October 5, 1791 (image 142).
>
>I think it says he was from Santa Barbara (and Santa Maria?), and was the son of Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan. I also think it says he was the widower of someone named Ortiz?
>
>Anna Cleta was from San Juan, and her parents were Matheo Calzada and Maria Barbara de la [?].
>
>Alquien puede leer y decirme que dice este documento del matrimonio de Jph Cayetano Garcia con Anna Cleta Calzada, en Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco, 5 Octubre, 1791 (image 142).
>
>Thank you/gracias,
>
>Emilie
>Port Orchard, Washington State, EU
>
>

Comment

David---thank you so much. I appreciate it; now I can make more sense of it and now I know his widow's name and when she died.

Emilie

> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:50:57 -0700
> From: dpdelgado@jps.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need Help with Marriage Record for Jph. Cayetano Garcia
>
> Hello Emilie,
>
> I have typed what my old eyes see for you.
>
> ... Joseph Cayetano Garcia Español originario y vecino de esta feligresia en Santa Barbara Hijo lexitimo de Nicolas Garcia y de Maria de San Juan de Trillo y viudo de Thereza Ortis ha[ce] un año con Anna Cleta Calzada española originaria de San Juan y vecina de esta Feligresia ha[ce] quatro años hija lexitima de Matheo Calzada y de Maria Barbara de [So Mayor ?] ...
>
> I think that the Sta. Maria in the margin refer to where the bride lives now. Hope this helps.
>
> David from Albany, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Emilie Garcia
> >Sent: Jul 19, 2011 1:54 AM
> >To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need Help with Marriage Record for Jph. Cayetano Garcia
> >
> >
> >
> >Can someone please help me read the marriage record for Jph Cayetano Garcia to Anna Cleta Calzada that took place in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco on October 5, 1791 (image 142).
> >
> >I think it says he was from Santa Barbara (and Santa Maria?), and was the son of Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan. I also think it says he was the widower of someone named Ortiz?
> >
> >Anna Cleta was from San Juan, and her parents were Matheo Calzada and Maria Barbara de la [?].
> >
> >Alquien puede leer y decirme que dice este documento del matrimonio de Jph Cayetano Garcia con Anna Cleta Calzada, en Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco, 5 Octubre, 1791 (image 142).
> >
> >Thank you/gracias,
> >
> >Emilie
> >Port Orchard, Washington State, EU
> >
> >

Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Published by Alicat_2025 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hopefully, some of you have heard of Victor Villasenor, the writer who was
nominated for a Pulitzer two times. He wrote Rain of Gold, Burro Genius, and
many other critically acclaimed books.

Comments

Published by Alicat_2025 – Wed, 2011-07-27 22:30 | Permalink

Comment

I was just looking at Victor Villasenor's website and saw that he posted that
Rain of Gold is going to be a miniseries on HBO and should air in 2012. He also
said a Mexican television station wants to air it on the 100th anniversary of
the Mexican Revolution. Also, just a reminder to those interested in Victor's
books that Wild Steps of Heaven is the one about his father's family who was
from Arandas.

http://victorvillasenor.com/blog/

Published by jcaguayo – Wed, 2011-07-27 16:00 | Permalink

Comment

I agree with Ricardo.....

Juan Rulfo is a definite read for those interested. I really enjoyed the short
stories in his book El Llano en llamas. I believe there are 17 short stories
in this book. When I did a little research on him a few years ago I realized
that Juan Rulfo is most likely related to my wife via his maternal
grandmother. Apulco, Jalisco is a small town and was most likely a quite a bit
smaller in the early 1900s. Today I noticed that more Jalisco records are
available online including Apulco, so I'll try to see how my wife and he are
related.

Saludos,
Juan Aguayo

------ Original Message ------
Received: 02:51 PM PDT, 07/19/2011
From: "Rick Rodriguez"
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Hi Alice,

I definitely need to read his books! The style I'm referring to is kind of
Juan Rulfo's style, fun, it’s narrative, entertaining, descriptive so you
don't want to put down the book until you finish reading it.

R. Rodríguez

Published by Alicat_2025 – Fri, 2011-07-15 16:00 | Permalink

Comment

Rick,

I know for certain Rain of Gold is published in Spanish because I have a copy of
Lluvia de Oro, but I don't know about his other books. Also, Victor seems very
proud of his Los Altos roots, so it seems fitting that Los Altos recognizes him.
He said in one of his recent books, Crazy Loco Love, that everybody he ever met
with the last name Villasenor turned out to be his relative. Also, what is this
Alteno writing style you are referring to?

Thanks,

Alice

Comment

Hello Alice,
Just wondering if you've ever met Victor Villasenor. 

--- On Fri, 7/15/11, alice wissing wrote:

From: alice wissing
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 10:54 PM

Rick,

I know for certain Rain of Gold is published in Spanish because I have a copy of
Lluvia de Oro, but I don't know about his other books. Also, Victor seems very
proud of his Los Altos roots, so it seems fitting that Los Altos recognizes him.
He said in one of his recent books, Crazy Loco Love, that everybody he ever met
with the last name Villasenor turned out to be his relative. Also, what is this
Alteno writing style you are referring to? 

Thanks,

Alice

Comment

I, too had already begun my family interviews and genealogy when I
discovered *Rain of Gold* in the early 90s. At my recommendation, many of my
extended family also read it and loved it. It took years for them to stop
asking me, "When are you going to write our story?" (Okay, maybe I never
actually told them I wouldn't. Who knows? Isn't that a secret dream of
many of us? Not for publication, but for our family?)

Raquel H. Ruiz

Published by Alicat_2025 – Thu, 2011-07-14 17:30 | Permalink

Comment

Daniel,

I'm so glad to hear that somebody out there has read a Victor Villasenor Book!
Everybody from Los Altos should be so proud that such a gifted writer has
ancestry from there. It was his father Juan Salvador Villasenor who was born
there but left during the Revolution (like many of our grandparents did). At the
beginning of Rain of Gold, also known as Lluvia de Oro, there is a family tree
that identifies Juan Salvador's parents as Juan Villasenor and Margarita. Many
other children of the couple are listed as well: Jose, Alejo, Luisa, Emilia,
Lucha, Domingo and "otros siete hijos que sobreviven" (whatever that means). We
need to do the math and figure out approximately when these people would have
been born and then review the records for Arandas. I'm going to guess that Juan
Salvador (Victor's dad) was born around 1890.

In Victor's books (particularly Wild Steps of Heaven), he often refers to his
dad as having an evil Spanish father who was fair (I think he described him as a
redhead) and pampered. He married an India, who Victor held in the highest
regard as being very wise and spiritual. He claims she was responsible for the
family's survival during the Revolution. It has been a while since I've read the
books and hope I'm remembering everything correctly.

Here is contact information which I copied from Victor's website - his sister is
named Linda and she answers all of his e-mail: linda@victorvillasenor.com.

Alice

Comment

Alice,

We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor Villaseñor
as one of ours. I would like to bring him up in my next Los Altos
Chroniclers reunion later this month and see if we can recognize him not
only regionally but all over Jalisco and Mexico. Are his books available in
Spanish also? I bet he inherited the alteño "picardía" writing style.

I am also planning to start a Los Altos de Jalisco website
(www.losaltosdejalisco.mx) where I can add his biography, publications,
recognitions and many more of his important achievements so people here in
Los Altos can know what he's accomplished.

Anyone else know about other accomplished persons with Alteño roots in their
ancestry?

R. Rodríguez

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de alice
wissing
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de julio de 2011 7:23 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Daniel,

I'm so glad to hear that somebody out there has read a Victor Villasenor
Book!
Everybody from Los Altos should be so proud that such a gifted writer has
ancestry from there. It was his father Juan Salvador Villasenor who was born
there but left during the Revolution (like many of our grandparents did). At
the beginning of Rain of Gold, also known as Lluvia de Oro, there is a
family tree that identifies Juan Salvador's parents as Juan Villasenor and
Margarita. Many other children of the couple are listed as well: Jose,
Alejo, Luisa, Emilia, Lucha, Domingo and "otros siete hijos que sobreviven"
(whatever that means). We need to do the math and figure out approximately
when these people would have been born and then review the records for
Arandas. I'm going to guess that Juan Salvador (Victor's dad) was born
around 1890.

In Victor's books (particularly Wild Steps of Heaven), he often refers to
his dad as having an evil Spanish father who was fair (I think he described
him as a
redhead) and pampered. He married an India, who Victor held in the highest
regard as being very wise and spiritual. He claims she was responsible for
the family's survival during the Revolution. It has been a while since I've
read the books and hope I'm remembering everything correctly.

Here is contact information which I copied from Victor's website - his
sister is named Linda and she answers all of his e-mail:
linda@victorvillasenor.com.

Alice

Comment

Rick,
 
Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also, he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message, especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
 
I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even more motivated to learn about my own ancestors.
 
Steve in NC

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:

From: Rick Rodriguez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM

Alice,

We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor Villaseñor
as one of ours. I would like to bring him up in my next Los Altos
Chroniclers reunion later this month and see if we can recognize him not
only regionally but all over Jalisco and Mexico. Are his books available in
Spanish also? I bet he inherited the alteño "picardía" writing style.

I am also planning to start a Los Altos de Jalisco website
(www.losaltosdejalisco.mx) where I can add his biography, publications,
recognitions and many more of his important achievements so people here in
Los Altos can know what he's accomplished.

Anyone else know about other accomplished persons with Alteño roots in their
ancestry?

R. Rodríguez

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de alice
wissing
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de julio de 2011 7:23 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Daniel,

I'm so glad to hear that somebody out there has read a Victor Villasenor
Book!
Everybody from Los Altos should be so proud that such a gifted writer has
ancestry from there. It was his father Juan Salvador Villasenor who was born
there but left during the Revolution (like many of our grandparents did). At
the beginning of Rain of Gold, also known as Lluvia de Oro, there is a
family tree that identifies Juan Salvador's parents as Juan Villasenor and
Margarita. Many other children of the couple are listed as well: Jose,
Alejo, Luisa, Emilia, Lucha, Domingo and "otros siete hijos que sobreviven"
(whatever that means). We need to do the math and figure out approximately
when these people would have been born and then review the records for
Arandas. I'm going to guess that Juan Salvador (Victor's dad) was born
around 1890.

In Victor's books (particularly Wild Steps of Heaven), he often refers to
his dad as having an evil Spanish father who was fair (I think he described
him as a
redhead) and pampered. He married an India, who Victor held in the highest
regard as being very wise and spiritual. He claims she was responsible for
the family's survival during the Revolution. It has been a while since I've
read the books and hope I'm remembering everything correctly.

Here is contact information which I copied from Victor's website - his
sister is named Linda and she answers all of his e-mail:
linda@victorvillasenor.com.

Alice

Comment

Victor Villaseno resides in Oceanseide California and he has a Thanksgiving dinner open to all his friends.

--- On Fri, 7/15/11, Steve Apodaca wrote:

From: Steve Apodaca
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 9:37 PM

Rick,
 
Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also, he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message, especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
 
I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even more motivated to learn about my own ancestors.
 
Steve in NC

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:

From: Rick Rodriguez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM

Alice,

We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor Villaseñor
as one of ours. I would like to bring him up in my next Los Altos
Chroniclers reunion later this month and see if we can recognize him not
only regionally but all over Jalisco and Mexico. Are his books available in
Spanish also? I bet he inherited the alteño "picardía" writing style.

I am also planning to start a Los Altos de Jalisco website
(www.losaltosdejalisco.mx) where I can add his biography, publications,
recognitions and many more of his important achievements so people here in
Los Altos can know what he's accomplished.

Anyone else know about other accomplished persons with Alteño roots in their
ancestry?

R. Rodríguez

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de alice
wissing
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de julio de 2011 7:23 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Daniel,

I'm so glad to hear that somebody out there has read a Victor Villasenor
Book!
Everybody from Los Altos should be so proud that such a gifted writer has
ancestry from there. It was his father Juan Salvador Villasenor who was born
there but left during the Revolution (like many of our grandparents did). At
the beginning of Rain of Gold, also known as Lluvia de Oro, there is a
family tree that identifies Juan Salvador's parents as Juan Villasenor and
Margarita. Many other children of the couple are listed as well: Jose,
Alejo, Luisa, Emilia, Lucha, Domingo and "otros siete hijos que sobreviven"
(whatever that means). We need to do the math and figure out approximately
when these people would have been born and then review the records for
Arandas. I'm going to guess that Juan Salvador (Victor's dad) was born
around 1890.

In Victor's books (particularly Wild Steps of Heaven), he often refers to
his dad as having an evil Spanish father who was fair (I think he described
him as a
redhead) and pampered. He married an India, who Victor held in the highest
regard as being very wise and spiritual. He claims she was responsible for
the family's survival during the Revolution. It has been a while since I've
read the books and hope I'm remembering everything correctly.

Here is contact information which I copied from Victor's website - his
sister is named Linda and she answers all of his e-mail:
linda@victorvillasenor.com.

Alice

Comment

Here is another entry from the book .

Noviembre 7 de 1795- Don Jose Dionisio Barbosa, de 28 anos, espanol, origianrio y vecino del Valle de San Mateo del Pilon, y residente de esteValle del Guaxuco, hijo legitimo de don Jose Manuel Barbosa, difunto y de dona Maria Manuela Villareal, de aquella vecindad, con dona Maria Guadalupe de la Garza, de 18 anos, espanola, originaria y vecina de este Valle, hija legitima de Francisco de la Garza y de dona Juana Josepha de la Garza, de esta vecindad.

Thats it for now , I searched the whole book and only found the two that I sent .

Take care,
Welester

Comment

maybe someone can contact him and see if he would like an "honorary"
membership in the NR group. . .which by the way would include a
invitation to speak at the next NR S.California get together.

it never hurts to ask.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

francisco sevilla wrote:
> Victor Villaseno resides in Oceanseide California and he has a
Thanksgiving dinner open to all his friends.
>
> --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Steve Apodaca wrote:
>
> From: Steve Apodaca
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 9:37 PM
>
> Rick,
>
> Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor
Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos
Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking
Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also,
he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of
them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message,
especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
>
> I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with
passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy
before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even
more motivated to learn about my own ancestors.
>
> Steve in NC
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:
>
>
> From: Rick Rodriguez
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM
>
>
> Alice,
>
> We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor
Villaseñor
> as one of ours.

Comment

Whe is the "next NR S. California get together"?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Puentes
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 20:36:33
To:
Reply-to: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

maybe someone can contact him and see if he would like an "honorary"
membership in the NR group. . .which by the way would include a
invitation to speak at the next NR S.California get together.

it never hurts to ask.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

francisco sevilla wrote:
> Victor Villaseno resides in Oceanseide California and he has a
Thanksgiving dinner open to all his friends.
>
> --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Steve Apodaca wrote:
>
> From: Steve Apodaca
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 9:37 PM
>
> Rick,
>
> Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor
Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos
Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking
Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also,
he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of
them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message,
especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
>
> I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with
passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy
before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even
more motivated to learn about my own ancestors.
>
> Steve in NC
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:
>
>
> From: Rick Rodriguez
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM
>
>
> Alice,
>
> We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor
Villaseñor
> as one of ours.

Comment

That would be a neat idea, even if I cannot personally  attend....I just got 4 of his books, and started Rain of Gold.  I am so excited..i t's taking me back in time...to 1917- 1920 which  is when our G randfather, Cristino,  came to the US, during the time of the revolution.  Both he and his brother Jose arrived with their wives and children.    Maybe Victor  Villasenor  would consider this invitation.  It would be wonderful for everyone who could attend . 

I must tell you that I married into this Mexican family.....and that was many years ago....in the 1960's.  For me when we went to visit my French grandmother every Sunday, we would sit in a parlor and listen to the clock tick for hours, all dressed up in our Sunday best for Mass and starving, because w e had  fasted for communicon.   It was excrutiating as we "paid our respects".   We were six children and we didn't even get a glass of water, some mints though.  I had to go ask my father "when" we would be going and would it be "soon".  Being the oldest that was my job each Sunday....b ut my Mexican family taught us how a family should be....with their "a brazos" coming and going each time we met, and such  delicious food!   The first time I did the same to my father.....he had a worried look on his face...and said "W hy are you giving me a hug, will I not see you again?"   I told him it was only a sign of love.....after that it has been a part of our family "tradition" and was carried into the homes of all our friends too.     

U ntil a few years ago (when I moved), I belonged to a Catholic parish where most of the parish members were  Mexican, and they had a Spanish Mass.  I loved the music, so   I joined the choir, because oh I love to sing, and I sang my heart out, doing solos even...and when you sing for some reason, you don't seem to  have an accent...but I do not speak Spanish....I understand some and speak a little, but that is not exactly the same thing, as most of you know .  O ne day I asked one of the other choir members to translate the words as we sang....well, that nearly did me in.   Each song   was more beautiful than the one before it.  Something that  had only been  beautiful sounds to me, had meaning.  As I learned  each and every word and what they meant ,  it  became more and more difficult to sing. The passion and the meaning of each  left me totally speechless, and after awhile I could not sing at all.    I had nothing but  tears rolling down my cheeks.   I told them no more....they must not tell me the meaning of a  single lyric,  because I would not be able to sing....everyone laughed that day....  and gave me another "a brazo".   

Nancy Casillas

Saint Clair, Michigan

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Puentes"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 8:36:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

maybe someone can contact him and see if he would like an "honorary"
membership in the NR group. . .which by the way would include a
invitation to speak at the next NR S.California get together.

it never hurts to ask.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

francisco sevilla wrote:
 > Victor Villaseno resides in Oceanseide California and he has a
Thanksgiving dinner open to all his friends.
 >
 > --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Steve Apodaca wrote:
 >
 > From: Steve Apodaca
 > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
 > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
 > Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 9:37 PM
 >
 > Rick,
 >
 > Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor
Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos
Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking
Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also,
he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of
them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message,
especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
 >
 > I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with
passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy
before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even
more motivated to learn about my own ancestors.
 >
 > Steve in NC
 >
 > --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:
 >
 >
 > From: Rick Rodriguez
 > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
 > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
 > Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM
 >
 >
 > Alice,
 >
 > We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor
Villaseñor
 > as one of ours.

Comment

Nancy,
 
What a heart warming story, thanks for sharing it with us.
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: "nancasillas@comcast.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

That would be a neat idea, even if I cannot personally  attend....I just got 4 of his books, and started Rain of Gold.  I am so excited..i t's taking me back in time...to 1917- 1920 which  is when our G randfather, Cristino,  came to the US, during the time of the revolution.  Both he and his brother Jose arrived with their wives and children.    Maybe Victor  Villasenor  would consider this invitation.  It would be wonderful for everyone who could attend . 

I must tell you that I married into this Mexican family.....and that was many years ago....in the 1960's.  For me when we went to visit my French grandmother every Sunday, we would sit in a parlor and listen to the clock tick for hours, all dressed up in our Sunday best for Mass and starving, because w e had  fasted for communicon.   It was excrutiating as we "paid our respects".   We were six children and we didn't even get a glass of water, some mints though.  I had to go ask my father "when" we would be going and would it be "soon".  Being the oldest that was my job each Sunday....b ut my Mexican family taught us how a family should be....with their "a brazos" coming and going each time we met, and such  delicious food!   The first time I did the same to my father.....he had a worried look on his face...and said "W hy are you giving me a hug, will I not see you again?"   I told him it was only a sign of love.....after that it has been a
part of our family "tradition" and was carried into the homes of all our friends too.     

U ntil a few years ago (when I moved), I belonged to a Catholic parish where most of the parish members were  Mexican, and they had a Spanish Mass.  I loved the music, so   I joined the choir, because oh I love to sing, and I sang my heart out, doing solos even...and when you sing for some reason, you don't seem to  have an accent...but I do not speak Spanish....I understand some and speak a little, but that is not exactly the same thing, as most of you know .  O ne day I asked one of the other choir members to translate the words as we sang....well, that nearly did me in.   Each song   was more beautiful than the one before it.  Something that  had only been  beautiful sounds to me, had meaning.  As I learned  each and every word and what they meant ,  it  became more and more difficult to sing. The passion and the meaning of each  left me totally speechless, and after awhile I could not sing at all.    I had nothing but  tears
rolling down my cheeks.   I told them no more....they must not tell me the meaning of a  single lyric,  because I would not be able to sing....everyone laughed that day....  and gave me another "a brazo".   

Nancy Casillas

Saint Clair, Michigan

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Puentes"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 8:36:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

maybe someone can contact him and see if he would like an "honorary"
membership in the NR group. . .which by the way would include a
invitation to speak at the next NR S.California get together.

it never hurts to ask.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

francisco sevilla wrote:
 > Victor Villaseno resides in Oceanseide California and he has a
Thanksgiving dinner open to all his friends.
 >
 > --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Steve Apodaca wrote:
 >
 > From: Steve Apodaca
 > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
 > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
 > Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 9:37 PM
 >
 > Rick,
 >
 > Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor
Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos
Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking
Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also,
he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of
them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message,
especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
 >
 > I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with
passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy
before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even
more motivated to learn about my own ancestors.
 >
 > Steve in NC
 >
 > --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:
 >
 >
 > From: Rick Rodriguez
 > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
 > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
 > Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM
 >
 >
 > Alice,
 >
 > We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor
Villaseñor
 > as one of ours.

Comment

Umm you are welcome...and you would not believe how such a simple thing as a hug on greeting has become a part now of most American US families...and friends.  I see it often now.    I assure you this was not a habit 50 years ago.  I attribute it completely to the Mexican influence here in our culture, and their love of family. 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 5:10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Nancy,
 
What a heart warming story, thanks for sharing it with us.
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: "nancasillas@comcast.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

That would be a neat idea, even if I cannot personally  attend....I just got 4 of his books, and started Rain of Gold.  I am so excited..i t's taking me back in time...to 1917- 1920 which  is when our G randfather, Cristino,  came to the US, during the time of the revolution.  Both he and his brother Jose arrived with their wives and children.    Maybe Victor  Villasenor  would consider this invitation.  It would be wonderful for everyone who could attend . 

I must tell you that I married into this Mexican family.....and that was many years ago....in the 1960's.  For me when we went to visit my French grandmother every Sunday, we would sit in a parlor and listen to the clock tick for hours, all dressed up in our Sunday best for Mass and starving, because w e had  fasted for communicon.   It was excrutiating as we "paid our respects".   We were six children and we didn't even get a glass of water, some mints though.  I had to go ask my father "when" we would be going and would it be "soon".  Being the oldest that was my job each Sunday....b ut my Mexican family taught us how a family should be....with their "a brazos" coming and going each time we met, and such  delicious food!   The first time I did the same to my father.....he had a worried look on his face...and said "W hy are you giving me a hug, will I not see you again?"   I told him it was only a sign of love.....after that it has been a
 part of our family "tradition" and was carried into the homes of all our friends too.     

U ntil a few years ago (when I moved), I belonged to a Catholic parish where most of the parish members were  Mexican, and they had a Spanish Mass.  I loved the music, so   I joined the choir, because oh I love to sing, and I sang my heart out, doing solos even...and when you sing for some reason, you don't seem to  have an accent...but I do not speak Spanish....I understand some and speak a little, but that is not exactly the same thing, as most of you know .  O ne day I asked one of the other choir members to translate the words as we sang....well, that nearly did me in.   Each song   was more beautiful than the one before it.  Something that  had only been  beautiful sounds to me, had meaning.  As I learned  each and every word and what they meant ,  it  became more and more difficult to sing. The passion and the meaning of each  left me totally speechless, and after awhile I could not sing at all.    I had nothing but  tears
 rolling down my cheeks.   I told them no more....they must not tell me the meaning of a  single lyric,  because I would not be able to sing....everyone laughed that day....  and gave me another "a brazo".   

Nancy Casillas

Saint Clair, Michigan

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Puentes"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 8:36:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

maybe someone can contact him and see if he would like an "honorary"
membership in the NR group. . .which by the way would include a
invitation to speak at the next NR S.California get together.

it never hurts to ask.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

francisco sevilla wrote:
 > Victor Villaseno resides in Oceanseide California and he has a
Thanksgiving dinner open to all his friends.
 >
 > --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Steve Apodaca wrote:
 >
 > From: Steve Apodaca
 > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
 > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
 > Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 9:37 PM
 >
 > Rick,
 >
 > Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor
Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos
Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking
Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also,
he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of
them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message,
especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
 >
 > I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with
passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy
before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even
more motivated to learn about my own ancestors.
 >
 > Steve in NC
 >
 > --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:
 >
 >
 > From: Rick Rodriguez
 > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
 > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
 > Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM
 >
 >
 > Alice,
 >
 > We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor
Villaseñor
 > as one of ours.

Comment

Yes, we did not see white men in America embracing each other until President Clinton started it. For some reason, after that it took off, also the high fives and other types of handshakes borrowed from other cultures. What I don't see yet is the kisses on the cheeks between men like you see in France and the Arab countries. I was astounded when President Bush kissed some Arab princes, but I have not seen him kiss any other men here.

Emilie

> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 23:00:09 +0000
> From: nancasillas@comcast.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
>
> Umm you are welcome...and you would not believe how such a simple thing as a hug on greeting has become a part now of most American US families...and friends. I see it often now. I assure you this was not a habit 50 years ago. I attribute it completely to the Mexican influence here in our culture, and their love of family.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alicia Carrillo"
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 5:10:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
>
> Nancy,
>
> What a heart warming story, thanks for sharing it with us.
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Ca
>
> From: "nancasillas@comcast.net"
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
>
>
>
> That would be a neat idea, even if I cannot personally attend....I just got 4 of his books, and started Rain of Gold. I am so excited..i t's taking me back in time...to 1917- 1920 which is when our G randfather, Cristino, came to the US, during the time of the revolution. Both he and his brother Jose arrived with their wives and children. Maybe Victor Villasenor would consider this invitation. It would be wonderful for everyone who could attend .
>
> I must tell you that I married into this Mexican family.....and that was many years ago....in the 1960's. For me when we went to visit my French grandmother every Sunday, we would sit in a parlor and listen to the clock tick for hours, all dressed up in our Sunday best for Mass and starving, because w e had fasted for communicon. It was excrutiating as we "paid our respects". We were six children and we didn't even get a glass of water, some mints though. I had to go ask my father "when" we would be going and would it be "soon". Being the oldest that was my job each Sunday....b ut my Mexican family taught us how a family should be....with their "a brazos" coming and going each time we met, and such delicious food! The first time I did the same to my father.....he had a worried look on his face...and said "W hy are you giving me a hug, will I not see you again?" I told him it was only a sign of love.....after that it has been a
> part of our family "tradition" and was carried into the homes of all our friends too.
>
> U ntil a few years ago (when I moved), I belonged to a Catholic parish where most of the parish members were Mexican, and they had a Spanish Mass. I loved the music, so I joined the choir, because oh I love to sing, and I sang my heart out, doing solos even...and when you sing for some reason, you don't seem to have an accent...but I do not speak Spanish....I understand some and speak a little, but that is not exactly the same thing, as most of you know . O ne day I asked one of the other choir members to translate the words as we sang....well, that nearly did me in. Each song was more beautiful than the one before it. Something that had only been beautiful sounds to me, had meaning. As I learned each and every word and what they meant , it became more and more difficult to sing. The passion and the meaning of each left me totally speechless, and after awhile I could not sing at all. I had nothing but tears
> rolling down my cheeks. I told them no more....they must not tell me the meaning of a single lyric, because I would not be able to sing....everyone laughed that day.... and gave me another "a brazo".
>
> Nancy Casillas
>
> Saint Clair, Michigan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Joseph Puentes"
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 8:36:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
>
> maybe someone can contact him and see if he would like an "honorary"
> membership in the NR group. . .which by the way would include a
> invitation to speak at the next NR S.California get together.
>
> it never hurts to ask.
>
>
> joseph
>
> ======================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)
>
>
>
> francisco sevilla wrote:
> > Victor Villaseno resides in Oceanseide California and he has a
> Thanksgiving dinner open to all his friends.
> >
> > --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Steve Apodaca wrote:
> >
> > From: Steve Apodaca
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 9:37 PM
> >
> > Rick,
> >
> > Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor
> Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos
> Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking
> Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also,
> he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of
> them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message,
> especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
> >
> > I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with
> passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy
> before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even
> more motivated to learn about my own ancestors.
> >
> > Steve in NC
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Rick Rodriguez
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM
> >
> >
> > Alice,
> >
> > We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor
> Villaseñor
> > as one of ours.
>
>

Comment

Steve,

Thanks for the info. I've already talked about Victor Villaseñor to some
people in charge from the Departement of Culture from some municipalities.
I will be pushing and reminding them to include his books in their next
workshops. All I need now is to find where to buy the books and pick them up
on my next trip I make to the US, hopefully very soon.

Thanks again,

Ricardo Rodriguez Camarena

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Steve
Apodaca
Enviado el: viernes, 15 de julio de 2011 11:37 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Rick,
 
Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor Villasenor that
are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos Salvajes del
Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas,
Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also, he has written several
bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of them to read with my 3
year old daughter, and I really like the message, especially in one titled
The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
 
I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with passion
about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy before I
read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even more motivated
to learn about my own ancestors.
 
Steve in NC

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:

From: Rick Rodriguez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM

Alice,

We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor Villaseñor
as one of ours. I would like to bring him up in my next Los Altos
Chroniclers reunion later this month and see if we can recognize him not
only regionally but all over Jalisco and Mexico. Are his books available in
Spanish also? I bet he inherited the alteño "picardía" writing style.

I am also planning to start a Los Altos de Jalisco website
(www.losaltosdejalisco.mx) where I can add his biography, publications,
recognitions and many more of his important achievements so people here in
Los Altos can know what he's accomplished.

Anyone else know about other accomplished persons with Alteño roots in their
ancestry?

R. Rodríguez

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de alice
wissing Enviado el: jueves, 14 de julio de 2011 7:23 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Daniel,

I'm so glad to hear that somebody out there has read a Victor Villasenor
Book!
Everybody from Los Altos should be so proud that such a gifted writer has
ancestry from there. It was his father Juan Salvador Villasenor who was born
there but left during the Revolution (like many of our grandparents did). At
the beginning of Rain of Gold, also known as Lluvia de Oro, there is a
family tree that identifies Juan Salvador's parents as Juan Villasenor and
Margarita. Many other children of the couple are listed as well: Jose,
Alejo, Luisa, Emilia, Lucha, Domingo and "otros siete hijos que sobreviven"
(whatever that means). We need to do the math and figure out approximately
when these people would have been born and then review the records for
Arandas. I'm going to guess that Juan Salvador (Victor's dad) was born
around 1890.

In Victor's books (particularly Wild Steps of Heaven), he often refers to
his dad as having an evil Spanish father who was fair (I think he described
him as a
redhead) and pampered. He married an India, who Victor held in the highest
regard as being very wise and spiritual. He claims she was responsible for
the family's survival during the Revolution. It has been a while since I've
read the books and hope I'm remembering everything correctly.

Here is contact information which I copied from Victor's website - his
sister is named Linda and she answers all of his e-mail:
linda@victorvillasenor.com.

Alice

Comment

Estimado Ricardo,

Desciendo de una hermana Antonio el Amo de Aceves y Casillas Cabrera. Felipa Catarina era hija de Juan
Francisco de Aceves y Antonia de Casillas y Cabrera. Felipa casó el 17 de febrero de 1773 en San Francisco
de Asís, Tepatitlán con José Ignacio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza. Tuvieron entre otros a mi quinta bisabuela
María Josefa Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza quien casó a José Rosalino Leonel de Cervantes quienes tuvieron a
Maria de Jesús Leonel de Cervantes. Esta casó a Jose Manuel de Aceves y tuvieron a Filomena de Aceves quien
casó a José Antonio Rubio de Zepeda estos tuvieron Atilana Rubio de Zepeda abuela de abuelo paterno.
Probable ya tienes bastante informacion sobre el Amo Aceves, ya que desciendes de el segun mi entendimiento.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Published by mendezdetorres – Thu, 2011-07-14 01:15 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Alice,

I have always wondered the connection between Victor Villasenor and Los Altos de Jalisco. I will
admit I only have read Rain of Gold, very good read. Also, in spanish Lluvia de Oro. I would
love to research his ancestry. How could I contact his sister. It is very probable that he
comes from the Villasenor-Cervantes family, but one would have to research it.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Records found in Mexico Distrito Federal Catholic Church Records 1886-1933 cover much older dates than title indicates.

Published by nancasillas –
Forums
Genealogy Research

You have to know the name of the church to find a record. Open the file and then go directly to the Church as they are listed. Some have records going back to the 1500's.

Comments

Dispensas

Published by alicebb –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain wil

Comments

Published by Marthaharo – Wed, 2011-07-13 14:30 | Permalink

Comment

Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").

And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask for
the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.

I hope this help you

Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales cuando
los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
de por medio.

Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> worth it. Thanks so much.
> Alice

Published by alicebb – Wed, 2011-07-13 14:45 | Permalink

Comment

Thanks Patty.  So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.  So when I research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.  All this time, I thought dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.  Thanks so much,  Alice     

--- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:

From: patty haro
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM

Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").

And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask for
the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.

I hope this help you

Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales cuando
los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
de por medio.

Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> worth it.  Thanks so much.
> Alice

Published by Marthaharo – Wed, 2011-07-13 15:30 | Permalink

Comment

Well, some times you can find the complete dispensa there and other times
just the letter allowing the marriage, depending on the priest

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required
> it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial. So when I
> research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> dispensa was necessary, I would find it there. All this time, I thought
> dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner. Thanks so
> much, Alice
>
> --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
>
>
> From: patty haro
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
>
>
> Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
> the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
> the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
>
> And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
> groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> for
> the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.
>
> I hope this help you
>
> Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> cuando
> los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
> de por medio.
>
> Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
> matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> > worth it. Thanks so much.
> > Alice
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Published by Armando – Wed, 2011-07-13 19:00 | Permalink

Comment

Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A majority
of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
Guadalajara.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required
> it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial. So when I
> research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> dispensa was necessary, I would find it there. All this time, I thought
> dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner. Thanks so
> much, Alice
>
> --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
>
>
> From: patty haro
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
>
>
> Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
> the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
> the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
>
> And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
> groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> for
> the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.
>
> I hope this help you
>
> Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> cuando
> los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
> de por medio.
>
> Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
> matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> > worth it. Thanks so much.
> > Alice
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Published by alicebb – Wed, 2011-07-13 21:45 | Permalink

Comment

Wow Armando.  This is all new information for me.  I went to the Diocesis of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary translation says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes.  Not sure what capellanias refer to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes refer to holy orders or ordination? 
Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocesis?  In other words, when other diocesis were carved out of there.  That would be really useful.  Thanks so much.   Alice  

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM

Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A majority
of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
Guadalajara.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Thanks Patty.  So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required
> it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.  So when I
> research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.  All this time, I thought
> dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.  Thanks so
> much,  Alice
>
> --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
>
>
> From: patty haro
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
>
>
> Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
> the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
> the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
>
> And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
> groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> for
> the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.
>
> I hope this help you
>
> Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> cuando
> los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
> de por medio.
>
> Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
> matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> > worth it.  Thanks so much.
> > Alice
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Published by Armando – Thu, 2011-07-14 08:30 | Permalink

Comment

Alice,

Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
a good explanation in Spanish at
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
becoming a priest.
A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never thought
I would find this info.

For some reason the earlier link for the Diócesis de Guadalajara link had
added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Wow Armando. This is all new information for me. I went to the Diocesis
> of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary translation
> says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes. Not sure what capellanias refer
> to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes
> refer to holy orders or ordination?
> Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the
> Guadalajara diocesis? In other words, when other diocesis were carved out
> of there. That would be really useful. Thanks so much. Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
>
>
> Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
> was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
> because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
> parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A majority
> of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
> under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
> permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
> Guadalajara.
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>

>
> There is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
> reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was
> required
> > it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial. So when I
> > research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> > and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> > dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> > dispensa was necessary, I would find it there. All this time, I thought
> > dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner. Thanks
> so
> > much, Alice
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: patty haro
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
> >
> >
> > Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo
> allow
> > the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and
> normally
> > the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> > church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
> >
> > And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to
> the
> > groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> > for
> > the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion
> matrimonial.
> >
> > I hope this help you
> >
> > Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> > cuando
> > los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> > parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> > dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una
> limosna
> > de por medio.
> >
> > Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> > solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> > impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la
> info
> > matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> > > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > > matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be
> totally
> > > worth it. Thanks so much.
> > > Alice
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Published by alicebb – Sat, 2011-07-16 21:15 | Permalink

Comment

Armando,  Thanks so much for the explanation.  I can see where knowing what cities and towns were under Guadalajara's diocese at different points in time makes all the difference in the usefulness of this resource.
Unless I missed it.  I didn't see a map illustrating the geographical area the diocese emcompassed throughout its history.  I thought that one point even Monterrey, NL was under the Guadalajara diocese, but I could be wrong.  Again thank you for your help.   Alice 

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 3:17 PM

Alice,

Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
a good explanation in Spanish at
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
becoming a priest.
A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never thought
I would find this info.

For some reason the earlier link for the Diócesis de Guadalajara link had
added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Wow Armando.  This is all new information for me.  I went to the Diocesis
> of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary translation
> says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes.  Not sure what capellanias refer
> to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes
> refer to holy orders or ordination?
> Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the
> Guadalajara diocesis?  In other words, when other diocesis were carved out
> of there.  That would be really useful.  Thanks so much.   Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
>
>
> Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
> was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
> because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
> parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A majority
> of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
> under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
> permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
> Guadalajara.
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>

>
> There is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
> reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Thanks Patty.  So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was
> required
> > it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.  So when I
> > research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> > and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> > dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> > dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.  All this time, I thought
> > dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.  Thanks
> so
> > much,  Alice
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: patty haro
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
> >
> >
> > Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo
> allow
> > the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and
> normally
> > the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> > church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
> >
> > And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to
> the
> > groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> > for
> > the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion
> matrimonial.
> >
> > I hope this help you
> >
> > Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> > cuando
> > los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> > parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> > dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una
> limosna
> > de por medio.
> >
> > Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> > solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> > impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la
> info
> > matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> > > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > > matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be
> totally
> > > worth it.  Thanks so much.
> > > Alice
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Published by Armando – Tue, 2011-07-19 15:30 | Permalink

Comment

Alice, Monterrey was under the diocese of Michoacán until 15 December 1777.
After that it was under the Diocese of Linares o Nueva León. I do see a note
that says 26 January 1863 Metropolitan Changed Diocese of Linares o Nueva
León (From Mexico (Mexico) to Guadalajara (Mexico)). I don't know what the
details on that are though.
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dmonm.html#hist

Armando

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Armando, Thanks so much for the explanation. I can see where knowing what
> cities and towns were under Guadalajara's diocese at different points in
> time makes all the difference in the usefulness of this resource.
> Unless I missed it. I didn't see a map illustrating the geographical area
> the diocese emcompassed throughout its history. I thought that one
> point even Monterrey, NL was under the Guadalajara diocese, but I could be
> wrong. Again thank you for your help. Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 3:17 PM
>
>
> Alice,
>
> Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
> them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
> a good explanation in Spanish at
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
> Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
> becoming a priest.
> A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
> found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
> http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never
> thought
> I would find this info.
>
> For some reason the earlier link for the Diócesis de Guadalajara link had
> added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Wow Armando. This is all new information for me. I went to the Diocesis
> > of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary
> translation
> > says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes. Not sure what capellanias
> refer
> > to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes
> > refer to holy orders or ordination?
> > Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the
> > Guadalajara diocesis? In other words, when other diocesis were carved
> out
> > of there. That would be really useful. Thanks so much. Alice
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Armando
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
> >
> >
> > Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
> > was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
> > because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
> > parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A
> majority
> > of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
> > under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
> > permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
> > Guadalajara.
> >
> >
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
> >
>
>
> >
> > There is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
> > reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
> >
> >
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
> >
> > Armando
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was
> > required
> > > it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial. So when
> I
> > > research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> > > and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> > > dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if
> a
> > > dispensa was necessary, I would find it there. All this time, I
> thought
> > > dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.
> Thanks
> > so
> > > much, Alice
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: patty haro
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo
> > allow
> > > the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and
> > normally
> > > the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if
> the
> > > church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
> > >
> > > And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to
> > the
> > > groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they
> ask
> > > for
> > > the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion
> > matrimonial.
> > >
> > > I hope this help you
> > >
> > > Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> > > cuando
> > > los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> > > parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> > > dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una
> > limosna
> > > de por medio.
> > >
> > > Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> > > solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> > > impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la
> > info
> > > matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk
> of
> > > > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > > > matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be
> > totally
> > > > worth it. Thanks so much.
> > > > Alice
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Published by alicebb – Tue, 2011-07-19 20:45 | Permalink

Comment

Armando,   This is where I got the idea that Nuevo Leon was under the Guadalajara diocese.  In Israel Cavazaos Garza, Breve historia de Nuevo Leon, p.104 it reads:  "Ya en 1741, el obispo de Guadalajara, don Juan Gomez de Parada, establecio una escuela formal y nombro como maestro a Martin de Arrambide (my 6grgrandfather), encargandole mucho la buena educacion de los ninos."  The author  doesn't really say what city in Nuevo Leon.  Do you think Nuevo Leon was divided in regards to dioceses?  This is where a map illustrating dioceses at different times in history would be helpful.  Then again, my Spanish literacy isn't the greatest, so I might have misunderstood.     Thanks again,  Alice

--- On Tue, 7/19/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 10:20 PM

Alice, Monterrey was under the diocese of Michoacán until 15 December 1777.
After that it was under the Diocese of Linares o Nueva León. I do see a note
that says 26 January 1863 Metropolitan Changed Diocese of Linares o Nueva
León (From Mexico (Mexico) to Guadalajara (Mexico)). I don't know what the
details on that are though.
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dmonm.html#hist

Armando

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Armando,  Thanks so much for the explanation.  I can see where knowing what
> cities and towns were under Guadalajara's diocese at different points in
> time makes all the difference in the usefulness of this resource.
> Unless I missed it.  I didn't see a map illustrating the geographical area
> the diocese emcompassed throughout its history.  I thought that one
> point even Monterrey, NL was under the Guadalajara diocese, but I could be
> wrong.  Again thank you for your help.   Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 3:17 PM
>
>
> Alice,
>
> Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
> them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
> a good explanation in Spanish at
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
> Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
> becoming a priest.
> A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
> found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
> http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never
> thought
> I would find this info.
>
> For some reason the earlier link for the Diócesis de Guadalajara link had
> added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Wow Armando.  This is all new information for me.  I went to the Diocesis
> > of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary
> translation
> > says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes.  Not sure what capellanias
> refer
> > to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes
> > refer to holy orders or ordination?
> > Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the
> > Guadalajara diocesis?  In other words, when other diocesis were carved
> out
> > of there.  That would be really useful.  Thanks so much.   Alice
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Armando
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
> >
> >
> > Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
> > was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
> > because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
> > parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A
> majority
> > of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
> > under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
> > permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
> > Guadalajara.
> >
> >
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
> >
>
>
> >
> > There is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
> > reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
> >
> >
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
> >
> > Armando
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Patty.  So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was
> > required
> > > it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.  So when
> I
> > > research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> > > and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> > > dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if
> a
> > > dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.  All this time, I
> thought
> > > dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.
> Thanks
> > so
> > > much,  Alice
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: patty haro
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo
> > allow
> > > the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and
> > normally
> > > the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if
> the
> > > church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
> > >
> > > And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to
> > the
> > > groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they
> ask
> > > for
> > > the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion
> > matrimonial.
> > >
> > > I hope this help you
> > >
> > > Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> > > cuando
> > > los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> > > parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> > > dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una
> > limosna
> > > de por medio.
> > >
> > > Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> > > solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> > > impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la
> > info
> > > matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk
> of
> > > > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > > > matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be
> > totally
> > > > worth it.  Thanks so much.
> > > > Alice
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Published by Jaime Alvarado – Wed, 2011-07-20 15:00 | Permalink

Comment

Armando,
I did not know that Nuevo Leon was at any time under the Dioceses of Michoacan. All the dispensas I've found for Nuevo Leon, prior to 15 of December of 1777 when the "Arzobispado de Monterrey" was established, were in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. I would be very interested in learning which period or locations in Nuevo Leon were under the jurisdiction of Michoacan, as it may be useful to locate certain records for my Nuevo Leon side of my family, that I've been unable to find elsehwere.

Armando,
Yo no sabia que Nuevo Leon estuvo bajo la Diocesis de Michoacan. Todas la dispensa que he encontrado para Nuevo Leon, previas al 15 de diciembre de 1777, cuando se fundo el Arzobispado de Monterrey, estaban en la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. Estoy muy interesado en conocer en que periodo, o que localidades de Nuevo Leon estuvieron bajo la jurisdiccion de Michoacan, ya que me seria muy util para buscar ciertos registros de familiares originarios de Nuevo Leon que no he podido localizar aun.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

Published by alicebb – Wed, 2011-07-20 16:30 | Permalink

Comment

Jaime,
Not sure that you saw my prior post on Nuevo Leon and the Guadalajara diocese regarding the appointment of my 6grgrandfather Martin Arrambide Arsa.  I don't mind researching, but I'd like to think that I'm not barking up the wrong tree, either.  I'd like to research his informacion matrimonial regarding his marriage of 11/22/1762 in Salinas Victoria, NL.  I've never researched the dispensas in the Guadalajara diocese and I'd like to go about it intelligently.  Are they listed by state, city, or simply by date?  Thanks so much for your help.
Alice Blake 

--- On Wed, 7/20/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, July 20, 2011, 9:45 PM

Armando,
I did not know that Nuevo Leon was at any time under the Dioceses of Michoacan. All the dispensas I've found for Nuevo Leon, prior to 15 of December of 1777 when the "Arzobispado de Monterrey" was established, were in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. I would be very interested in learning which period or locations in Nuevo Leon were under the jurisdiction of Michoacan, as it may be useful to locate certain records for my Nuevo Leon side of my family, that I've been unable to find elsehwere.

Armando,
Yo no sabia que Nuevo Leon estuvo bajo la Diocesis de Michoacan. Todas la dispensa que he encontrado para Nuevo Leon, previas al 15 de diciembre de 1777, cuando se fundo el Arzobispado de Monterrey, estaban en la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. Estoy muy interesado en conocer en que periodo, o que localidades de Nuevo Leon estuvieron bajo la jurisdiccion de Michoacan, ya que me seria muy util para buscar ciertos registros de familiares originarios de Nuevo Leon que no he podido localizar aun.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

Published by Armando – Wed, 2011-07-20 19:00 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Alice and Jaime,

I was going by what the websites said that I had found and provided earlier.
It seems you two will have to be the ones that can give us the answers. I
searched for more info on the dioceses and did a lot of reading but I
couldn't find anything that provided where dispensas would be located or why
the bishop of Guadalajara would be opening schools in Nuevo León when it was
under the diocese of Michoacán. Much less historical maps. Sorry I couldn't
be of more help on the subject.
The dispensas are normally by date but many times are out of range and
sometimes in a completely different volume. Hopefully someday they all get
indexed first and placed online and then fully transcribed at a later date.
My understanding is Luz Montejano Hilton didn't get all of them into her
book. They can be extremely valuable records for us.

Armando

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Jaime,
> Not sure that you saw my prior post on Nuevo Leon and the Guadalajara
> diocese regarding the appointment of my 6grgrandfather Martin Arrambide
> Arsa. I don't mind researching, but I'd like to think that I'm not barking
> up the wrong tree, either. I'd like to research his informacion matrimonial
> regarding his marriage of 11/22/1762 in Salinas Victoria, NL. I've never
> researched the dispensas in the Guadalajara diocese and I'd like to go about
> it intelligently. Are they listed by state, city, or simply by date?
> Thanks so much for your help.
> Alice Blake
>
> --- On Wed, 7/20/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:
>
>
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 20, 2011, 9:45 PM
>
>
> Armando,
> I did not know that Nuevo Leon was at any time under the Dioceses of
> Michoacan. All the dispensas I've found for Nuevo Leon, prior to 15 of
> December of 1777 when the "Arzobispado de Monterrey" was established, were
> in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. I would be very interested in learning
> which period or locations in Nuevo Leon were under the jurisdiction of
> Michoacan, as it may be useful to locate certain records for my Nuevo Leon
> side of my family, that I've been unable to find elsehwere.
>
> Armando,
> Yo no sabia que Nuevo Leon estuvo bajo la Diocesis de Michoacan. Todas la
> dispensa que he encontrado para Nuevo Leon, previas al 15 de diciembre de
> 1777, cuando se fundo el Arzobispado de Monterrey, estaban en la Sagrada
> Mitra de Guadalajara. Estoy muy interesado en conocer en que periodo, o que
> localidades de Nuevo Leon estuvieron bajo la jurisdiccion de Michoacan, ya
> que me seria muy util para buscar ciertos registros de familiares
> originarios de Nuevo Leon que no he podido localizar aun.
>
>
> Saludos
>
> Jaime Alvarado

Published by Armando – Wed, 2011-07-20 21:15 | Permalink

Comment

Alice and Jaime,

I just remembered there was a very informative post here at NuestrosRanchos
by George Fulton on the subject of dispensas for Monterrey. You should read
that one. It is at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19548 I guess the
Linares diocese is simplified as being from that of Michoacan even though it
was mostly from Guadalajara.

Armando

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Armando wrote:

> Hello Alice and Jaime,
>
> I was going by what the websites said that I had found and provided
> earlier. It seems you two will have to be the ones that can give us the
> answers. I searched for more info on the dioceses and did a lot of reading
> but I couldn't find anything that provided where dispensas would be located
> or why the bishop of Guadalajara would be opening schools in Nuevo León when
> it was under the diocese of Michoacán. Much less historical maps. Sorry I
> couldn't be of more help on the subject.
> The dispensas are normally by date but many times are out of range and
> sometimes in a completely different volume. Hopefully someday they all get
> indexed first and placed online and then fully transcribed at a later date.
> My understanding is Luz Montejano Hilton didn't get all of them into her
> book. They can be extremely valuable records for us.
>
> Armando
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>> Jaime,
>> Not sure that you saw my prior post on Nuevo Leon and the Guadalajara
>> diocese regarding the appointment of my 6grgrandfather Martin Arrambide
>> Arsa. I don't mind researching, but I'd like to think that I'm not barking
>> up the wrong tree, either. I'd like to research his informacion matrimonial
>> regarding his marriage of 11/22/1762 in Salinas Victoria, NL. I've never
>> researched the dispensas in the Guadalajara diocese and I'd like to go about
>> it intelligently. Are they listed by state, city, or simply by date?
>> Thanks so much for your help.
>> Alice Blake
>>
>> --- On Wed, 7/20/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Date: Wednesday, July 20, 2011, 9:45 PM
>>
>>
>> Armando,
>> I did not know that Nuevo Leon was at any time under the Dioceses of
>> Michoacan. All the dispensas I've found for Nuevo Leon, prior to 15 of
>> December of 1777 when the "Arzobispado de Monterrey" was established, were
>> in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. I would be very interested in learning
>> which period or locations in Nuevo Leon were under the jurisdiction of
>> Michoacan, as it may be useful to locate certain records for my Nuevo Leon
>> side of my family, that I've been unable to find elsehwere.
>>
>> Armando,
>> Yo no sabia que Nuevo Leon estuvo bajo la Diocesis de Michoacan. Todas la
>> dispensa que he encontrado para Nuevo Leon, previas al 15 de diciembre de
>> 1777, cuando se fundo el Arzobispado de Monterrey, estaban en la Sagrada
>> Mitra de Guadalajara. Estoy muy interesado en conocer en que periodo, o que
>> localidades de Nuevo Leon estuvieron bajo la jurisdiccion de Michoacan, ya
>> que me seria muy util para buscar ciertos registros de familiares
>> originarios de Nuevo Leon que no he podido localizar aun.
>>
>>
>> Saludos
>>
>> Jaime Alvarado

Published by alicebb – Tue, 2011-07-26 23:30 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you Armando and other members,  I'm learning something new everyday!   Alice Blake

--- On Thu, 7/21/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 4:00 AM

Alice and Jaime,

I just remembered there was a very informative post here at NuestrosRanchos
by George Fulton on the subject of dispensas for Monterrey. You should read
that one. It is at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19548 I guess the
Linares diocese is simplified as being from that of Michoacan even though it
was mostly from Guadalajara.

Armando

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Armando wrote:

> Hello Alice and Jaime,
>
> I was going by what the websites said that I had found and provided
> earlier. It seems you two will have to be the ones that can give us the
> answers. I searched for more info on the dioceses and did a lot of reading
> but I couldn't find anything that provided where dispensas would be located
> or why the bishop of Guadalajara would be opening schools in Nuevo León when
> it was under the diocese of Michoacán. Much less historical maps. Sorry I
> couldn't be of more help on the subject.
> The dispensas are normally by date but many times are out of range and
> sometimes in a completely different volume. Hopefully someday they all get
> indexed first and placed online and then fully transcribed at a later date.
> My understanding is Luz Montejano Hilton didn't get all of them into her
> book. They can be extremely valuable records for us.
>
> Armando
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>> Jaime,
>> Not sure that you saw my prior post on Nuevo Leon and the Guadalajara
>> diocese regarding the appointment of my 6grgrandfather Martin Arrambide
>> Arsa.  I don't mind researching, but I'd like to think that I'm not barking
>> up the wrong tree, either.  I'd like to research his informacion matrimonial
>> regarding his marriage of 11/22/1762 in Salinas Victoria, NL.  I've never
>> researched the dispensas in the Guadalajara diocese and I'd like to go about
>> it intelligently.  Are they listed by state, city, or simply by date?
>> Thanks so much for your help.
>> Alice Blake
>>
>> --- On Wed, 7/20/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Date: Wednesday, July 20, 2011, 9:45 PM
>>
>>
>> Armando,
>> I did not know that Nuevo Leon was at any time under the Dioceses of
>> Michoacan. All the dispensas I've found for Nuevo Leon, prior to 15 of
>> December of 1777 when the "Arzobispado de Monterrey" was established, were
>> in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. I would be very interested in learning
>> which period or locations in Nuevo Leon were under the jurisdiction of
>> Michoacan, as it may be useful to locate certain records for my Nuevo Leon
>> side of my family, that I've been unable to find elsehwere.
>>
>> Armando,
>> Yo no sabia que Nuevo Leon estuvo bajo la Diocesis de Michoacan. Todas la
>> dispensa que he encontrado para Nuevo Leon, previas al 15 de diciembre de
>> 1777, cuando se fundo el Arzobispado de Monterrey, estaban en la Sagrada
>> Mitra de Guadalajara. Estoy muy interesado en conocer en que periodo, o que
>> localidades de Nuevo Leon estuvieron bajo la jurisdiccion de Michoacan, ya
>> que me seria muy util para buscar ciertos registros de familiares
>> originarios de Nuevo Leon que no he podido localizar aun.
>>
>>
>> Saludos
>>
>> Jaime Alvarado

Published by Jaime Alvarado – Tue, 2011-07-26 22:45 | Permalink

Comment

Alice,
Unfortunately the 'dispensas' were never sorted from its origins into volumes by city or state. However, because of the extreme endogamy of Nuevo Leon, the number of dispensas corresponding to that region is striking. In addition, similar to local 'Licencias Matrimoniales' the chronological order is not followed at the time these records were photo-documented.
Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Published by alicebb – Tue, 2011-07-26 23:30 | Permalink

Comment

Jaime,
Would a couple have an informacion matrimonial entered first at the parish level and then if necessary, a dispensa at the diocese level?  Thanks so much,  Alice Blake 

--- On Wed, 7/27/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 5:38 AM

Alice,
Unfortunately the 'dispensas' were never sorted from its origins into volumes by city or state. However, because of the extreme endogamy of Nuevo Leon, the number of dispensas corresponding to that region is striking. In addition, similar to local 'Licencias Matrimoniales' the chronological order is not followed at the time these records were photo-documented.
Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Published by Jaime Alvarado – Thu, 2011-07-28 22:00 | Permalink

Comment

Alice,
That is my impression. I recently stumbled into an instance,that indicates that was the case as the consanguinity was discovered for a couple after such information was disclosed in the marriage investigation of their respective brother-sister. That marriage of several years, and several children, was declared invalid and the couple was ordered to live separately. They had to go through the entire process, beginning with "informacion matrimonial" and a "dispensa' from Guadalajara, and eventually they were remarried. This example may explain a couple of instances among members of my family in Nuevo Leon where I found two separate weddings between individuals with the same names as well as those of their parents. At the time I though it was a remarkable coincidence.

Sincerely

Jaime

Published by longsjourney – Fri, 2011-07-29 08:45 | Permalink

Comment

Jaime I found the same thing in Jerez, Zacatecas Mexico where a couple discovers they have a blood relationship and separate until the dispensation is granted and then they remarry. In fact I've found it 2 or 3 times.
thank you for sharing
Linda in B.C.

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas

Alice,
That is my impression. I recently stumbled into an instance,that indicates that was the case as the consanguinity was discovered for a couple after such information was disclosed in the marriage investigation of their respective brother-sister. That marriage of several years, and several children, was declared invalid and the couple was ordered to live separately. They had to go through the entire process, beginning with "informacion matrimonial" and a "dispensa' from Guadalajara, and eventually they were remarried. This example may explain a couple of instances among members of my family in Nuevo Leon where I found two separate weddings between individuals with the same names as well as those of their parents. At the time I though it was a remarkable coincidence.

Sincerely

Jaime

Published by alicebb – Fri, 2011-07-29 11:45 | Permalink

Comment

Thanks for your information, Jaime.  In as little time as I've been researching my genealogy, I've come to realize all things are possible.
Alice Blake

--- On Fri, 7/29/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 4:51 AM

Alice,
That is my impression. I recently stumbled into an instance,that indicates that was the case as the consanguinity was discovered for a couple after such information was disclosed in the marriage investigation of their respective brother-sister. That marriage of several years, and several children, was declared invalid and the couple was ordered to live separately. They had to go through the entire process, beginning with "informacion matrimonial" and a "dispensa' from Guadalajara, and eventually they were remarried. This example may explain a couple of instances among members of my family in Nuevo Leon where I found two separate weddings between individuals with the same names as well as those of their parents. At the time I though it was a remarkable coincidence.

Sincerely

Jaime

MARIA SILVESTRE HERNANDEZ HERMOSILLO

Published by D.I.VALLES –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Estimados compañeros, estoy en la búsqueda de la ascendencia de José María López Gonzalez c.c.

Comments

Published by Esther Jordan Lopez – Wed, 2011-07-27 17:45 | Permalink

Comment

Here's one that may nor may not help you. *Jose Maria Lopez *married to *Maria
Silvestre Hernandez *on *9 Oct 1833, Santiago, Capula, Michoacan *His
parents: *Jose Maria Lopez y Maria Pasquala [M604697 (1761-1876) film
0798010]*
Esther Jordan Lopez

2011/7/27

> Estimados compañeros, estoy en la búsqueda de la ascendencia de José María
> López Gonzalez c.c. María Silvestre Hernándes Hermosillo probablemente
> casados entre 1845 y 1853, muy seguramente en Tlaltenango de Sanchez Román.
> Encontré ya las actas de bautismo de 9 de 13 hijos, y tengo referencias de
> otros dos. Sin embargo no he encontrado matrimonios de los hijos de Jose
> María López y de María Silvestre Hernandez, encontrando el matrimonio de
> alguno de ellos puedo darme una idea de donde y en que fechas buscar el
> matrimonio de los padres (José María López Gonzalez y María Silvestre
> Hernandez Hermosillo)
>
> Si alguno de ustedes tiene alguna referencia a esto, aprecio mucho que me
> proporcione el dato.
>
> A continuación envío los datos:
>
> 1. José María López Gonzalez. Hijo de Visente López y de Francísca Gonzalez
> Días.
>
> José se casó con María Silvestre Hernández Hermosillo, hija de ¿Tapias?
> Hernández y Eustaquia Hermosillo.
>
> Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
> 2 F i. Lola López Hernández.
> 3 M ii. Cristobal López Hernández nació en 1855.
> Cristobal se casó con Estefana Soriano Saldaña, hija de Lucio Soriano y
> Jesús Saldaña, el 8 Mayo 1877 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas.
> Estefana nació en 1857.
> 4 iii. Maria de la Encarnación López Hernández nació
> el 26 Marzo 1860 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas, México y tuvo
> su bautismo infantil el 27 Marzo 1860 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román,
> Zacatecas.
> 5 iv. Miguel López Hernández nació el 7 Mayo 1863 en
> Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas, México y tuvo su bautismo infantil
> el 25 Mayo 1863 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas, México.
> 6 F v. María Natividad López Hernández tuvo su
> bautismo infantil el 5 Enero 1865 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román,
> Zacatecas.
> 7 M vi. Rafael López Hernández tuvo su bautismo
> infantil1 el 24 Octubre 1866 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas.
> 8 M vii. Manuel López Hernández tuvo su bautismo
> infantil2 el 7 Enero 1875 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas.
> 9 M viii. Modesto López Hernández nació3 el 23 Febrero
> 1871 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas, México y tuvo su bautismo
> infantil4 el 24 Febrero 1871 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas,
> México.
> 10 M ix. Silvestre López Hernández nació5 el 1 Enero
> 1877 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas y tuvo su bautismo infantil6
> el 11 Enero 1877 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas.
>
> 11 M x. David López Hernández nació7 el 4 Abril 1878 en
> Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas, México y tuvo su bautismo infantil8
> el 17 Abril 1878 en Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas, México.
> 12 M xi. Mariano Gerardo López Hernández.
> Mariano se casó con Elena Mateos Vega.
>
>
>
> Fuentes
>
> 1. Notaría Parroquial, Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
> Tlaltenango, Zacatecas., Caja 18, libro 5, pag. 79, 24 Oct 1866.
> 2. Notaría Parroquial, Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
> Tlaltenango, Zacatecas., Caja 19, libro 2, pag. 214.
> 3. Notaría Parroquial, Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
> Tlaltenango, Zacatecas., Caja 19, libro 1, pag. 169, 24 Feb 1871.
> 4. Notaría Parroquial, Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
> Tlaltenango, Zacatecas., Caja 19 , libro 1, pag. 169, 24 Feb 1871.
> 5. Notaría Parroquial, Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
> Tlaltenango, Zacatecas., Caja 19, libro 2, pag. 491, 11 Ene 1877.
> 6. Notaría Parroquial, Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
> Tlaltenango, Zacatecas., Caja 19, libro 2, pag. 491, 11 Ene 1877.
> 7. Notaría Parroquial, Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
> Tlaltenango, Zacatecas., Caja 19, libro 2, pag. 706, 17 Abr 1878.
> 8. Notaría Parroquial, Parroquia de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
> Tlaltenango, Zacatecas., Caja 19, libro 2, pag. 706, 17 Abr 1878.
>
>
>
> Atentamente
>
> Israel Valles
> Durango, MX

Testamentaría histórica

Published by Felipe Reyes Romo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Pongo a disposición del grupo "Nuestros Ranchos", reproducciones de
documentos esenciales para el estudio genealógico de las familias: Romo de
Vivar; De Trillo (Trillo); López de Nava; De Reyes (Reyes); De Tiscareño

Comments

Published by Lucio Esparza Reyes – Mon, 2007-03-05 17:47 | Permalink

Comment

me gustaria me haga saber como puedo obtener una copia del testamento de las familias tiscareño, gracias espero su respuesta.

Published by jalfonsohr – Mon, 2006-12-11 19:30 | Permalink

Comment

Estimado Dn Felipe Reyes:
Le agradecería me indicara cómo puedo conseguir una copia de testamentos de
la familia Romo de Vivar...
Muchas gracias, de antemano,
Alfonso Hernandez-Romo
AV.La Paz 2758, Arcos Sur 44130,
Guadalajara,Jalisco, México
Mi correo es alfonsoherna@gmail.com

El día 11/12/06, felipe reyes escribió:
>
> Pongo a disposición del grupo "Nuestros Ranchos", reproducciones de
> documentos esenciales para el estudio genealógico de las familias: Romo de
> Vivar; De Trillo (Trillo); López de Nava; De Reyes (Reyes); De Tiscareño
> (Tiscareño); Villalobos; Lozano; Muñóz de la Barba y Cid Escobar. Se trata
> de una compilación de fotocopias de Testamentos registrados entre 1680 y
> 1780 en Aguascalientes, que amablemente me ha proporcionado el Archivo
> Notarial del Estado de Aguascalientes, como parte de sus servicios de
> atención a investrigadores. Felipe Reyes Romo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Te gusta estar en control, crea tu propia experiencia en Internet
> http://live.com
>

Comment

Fuente documental: Archivo Notarial del Estado de Aguascalientes. Documentos
para la Historia de las familias:Romo de Vivar; De Trillo (Trillo); López de
Nava; De Reyes (Reyes); De Tiscareño(Tiscareño); Villalobos; Lozano; Muñóz
de la Barba; Cid Escobar

Testamento de Jacinto Lozano
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 19-XI-1683 Localizacion- 2 7 31 51f-53v
Escribano- Alonso Navarrete Argote

Testamento de Ana López de Nava
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 4-VII-1690 LOCALIZACION- 8 9 20 22f-23v
ESCRIBANO- Antonio Pérez de Velasco

Testamento de Pedro Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 13-II-1692 LOCALIZACION- 84 1 6 7v-10v
ESCRIBANO O AUTORIDAD- Antonio Pérez de Velasco

Testamento de Isabel Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 11-VI-1692 LOCALIZAICON- 84 1 37 50f-51f
ESCRIBANO - Antonio Pérez de Velasco

Testamento de Nicolás Ramírez Valdés (A) María Siordia
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 30-X-1694 LOCALIZACION- 84 3 26 48v-49v
ESCRIBANO- Antonio Pérez de Velasco

Testamento de Felipe López de Nava
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 5-V-1699 LOCALIZACION- 3 5 28 45v-48v
ESCRIBANO - Alonso Ruiz de Esparza

Testamento de Juan de Tiscareño
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 8-VIII-1700 LOCALIZACION- 79 3 55 110v-
ESCRIBANO- Salvador Delgado Cervantes

Testamento de María López de Nava y Mayorga
LUGAR- Asientos FECHA- 27-I-1709 LOCALIZACION- 5 2 68 107f-108v
ESCRIBANO- Juan Gómez de Esparza

Testamento de Nicolás Romo del Vivar. Albaceas: María de Villalobos y
Miguel de Cobos (clérigo) y Luis Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 27-XI-1713 LOCALIZACION- 6 3 115 167v-170f
ESCRIBANO - Baltazar de Aguilera

Testamento de María de Villalobos: Albaceas Miguel de Cobos y Pedro Romo
de Vivar.
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 13-IV-1720 LOCALIZACION- 8 1 20 22v-25f
ESCRIBANO - Baltazar de Aguilera

Testamento de Antonio Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 3-IX-1720 LOCALIZACION- 7 1 153 170f-v
ESCRIBANO - Diego Miguel de Prados

Testamento de Inés de Reyes
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 6-II-1726 LOCALIZACION- 9 6 8 8v-9f
ESCRIBANO - Baltazar de Aguilera

Testamento de Pedro Romo de Vivar ( Presbítero): Albacea Alejo Romo de
Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 31-VIII-1734 LOCALIZACION- 12 3 38 78f-88f
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Lucía de Reyes
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 1-II-1736 LOCALIZACION- 13 3 14 27v-30f
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Pedro de Reyes
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 4-V-1736 LOCALIZACION- 13 3 48 105v-109f
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de José Tomás de Trillo
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 30-IV-1749 LOCALIZACION- 17 1 28 43f-47f
ESCRIBANO - Gerónimo Díaz de Sandi

Testamento de Antonio Trillo
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 4-XI-1750 LOCALIZACION- 17 6 68 93f-99v
ESCRIBANO O AUTORIDAD- Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Melchor de los Reyes
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 17-IX-1751 LOCALIZACION- 17 7 63 108v-111v
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Diego López de Nava
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 4-VIII-1753 LOCALIZACION- 18 2 47 60f-61v
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Francisco Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 9-X-1755 LOCALIZACION- 18 8 53 83f-84f
ESCRIBANO - Gerónimo Díaz de Sandi

Testamento de Diego Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 19-II-1756 LOCALIZACION- 19 2 3 2v-3v
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de María Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 24-V-1756 LOCALIZACION- 19 1 21 28f-31v
ESCRIBANO - Gerónimo Díaz de Sandi

Testamento de Manuel Lozano
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 23-X-1756 LOCALIZACION- 19 1 36 54v-58f
ESCRIBANO - Gerónimo Díaz de Sandi

Testamento de Diego López de Nava
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 20-XII-1758 LOCALIZACION- 19 7 49 82f-88f
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

CONTRATANTES- Felipe de Trillo (presbítero)
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 30-IX-1762 LOCALIZACION- 21 3 35 72v-77v
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Cristóbal Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 24-I-1763 LOCALIZACION- 21 5 8 11f-14f
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Juan de Trillo
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 28-II-1764 LOCALIZACION- 22 3 8 9v-12f
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de José de Reyes
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 4-III-1765 LOCALIZACION- 22 5 32 59v-61v
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Juan de Reyes ( Presbítero)
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 7-IX-1766 LOCALIZACION- 22 6 13 36v-39v
ESCRIBANO - Gerónimo Díaz de Sandi

Testamento de Vicente Ferrer López de Nava
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 26-VII-1768 LOCALIZACION- 23 4 11 25f-27v
ESCRIBANO - Nicolás Flores Alatorre

Testamento de Marìa Muñoz de la Barba
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 27-IV-1773 LOCALIZACION- 84 4 32 50f-52v
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Francisco Javier Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Asientos FECHA- 6-VIII-1773 LOCALIZACION- 24 9 5 10f-18v
ESCRIBANO - Juan Antonio Mantilla

Testamento de Juan Féliz Márquez y Trillo
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 29-II-1774 LOCALIZACION- 82 1 11 16f-18v
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de Luis de Reyes
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 17-IV-1775 LOCALIZACION- 81 1 13 15v-17v
ESCRIBANO - Manuel Rafael de Aguilera

Testamento de José María Cid Escobar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 15-II-1778 LOCALIZACION- 25 8 11 21v-23v
ESCRIBANO - Pedro José María Díaz de León

Testamento de María Teresa López de Nava
LUGAR- Hacienda de Santos FECHA- 7-II-1782 LOCALIZACION- 82 4 2 3f-4v
ESCRIBANO - José Vicente de Valenzuela

1070.-TIPO DOCUMENTAL- Testamento
CONTRATANTES- Manuel Jiménez
LUGAR- Asientos FECHA- 21-V-1782 LOCALIZACION- 27 1 7 13f-16f
ESCRIBANO - José Emeterio Cos Gayón, teniente de alcalde mayor.

Testamento de Ignacio Antonio Matías Trillo (Presbítero)
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 11-VIII-1783 LOCALIZACION- 27 2 90 181f-185f
ESCRIBANO - Pedro José María Díaz de León

1100.-TIPO DOCUMENTAL- Testamento
CONTRATANTES- María Catarina de los Reyes
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 5-IV-1784 LOCALIZACION- 27 5 6 11v-14v
ESCRIBANO - Pedro José María Díaz de León

Testamento de Antonio Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 22-II-1785 LOCALIZACION- 28 1 31 60f-63f
ESCRIBANO - Pedro José María Díaz de León

Testamento de José Eusebio Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 1-IX-1789 LOCALIZACION- 30 1 83 142f-144f
ESCRIBANO - Pedro José María Díaz de León

Testamento de Ana López de Nava
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 19-XI-1791 LOCALIZACION- 83 3 22 24f-26f
ESCRIBANO - Antonio Pérez de Velasco

Testamento de Ana Josefa Palacio Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 24-XI-1796 LOCALIZACION- 33 6 68 117v-119v
ESCRIBANO - Juan José Carrillo y Vértiz

Testamento de Francisco Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 27-I-1798 LOCALIZACION- 34 6 9 16f-18f
ESCRIBANO - José Luis Ruiz de Esparza

Testamento de Vicente López de Nava
LUGAR- Valle de Huejúcar FECHA- 29-IV-1799 LOCALIZACION- 82 5 13 18f-21f
ESCRIBANO - José Moya de Moya

_________________________________________________________________
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Comment

Hola Ferero,

Durante las últimas semanas he estado investigando acerca de algunos ancestros con el apellido García, Trillo, Villalpando etc. Me topé con este post de hace unos años, Parece muy interesante y de hecho ya me ha sido util para aclarar la personalidad de Felipe Trillo, Presbítero. Muchas gracias por compartir esta lista. ¿Es posible ver los documentos originales on line? ¿Se encuentran en alguna página especial o tienes copias en tu poder que pudieras compartir? Te agradezco de antemano.

Jorge Elias

Published by Bill Figueroa – Mon, 2006-12-11 12:30 | Permalink

Comment

Sr. Reyes,

Le agradecería me enviara una lista de las personas que otorgaron
testamentos de los cuales tiene Ud. fotocopias. Me interesan principalmente
los testamentos de personas apellidadas Lozano, Romo de Vivar, Trillo,
Tiscareño y López de Nava. Muchas gracias.

Guillermo Figueroa Strecker

----- Original Message -----
From: "felipe reyes"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:46 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Testamentaría histórica

Pongo a disposición del grupo "Nuestros Ranchos", reproducciones de
documentos esenciales para el estudio genealógico de las familias: Romo de
Vivar; De Trillo (Trillo); López de Nava; De Reyes (Reyes); De Tiscareño
(Tiscareño); Villalobos; Lozano; Muñóz de la Barba y Cid Escobar. Se trata
de una compilación de fotocopias de Testamentos registrados entre 1680 y
1780 en Aguascalientes, que amablemente me ha proporcionado el Archivo
Notarial del Estado de Aguascalientes, como parte de sus servicios de
atención a investrigadores. Felipe Reyes Romo

_________________________________________________________________
Te gusta estar en control, crea tu propia experiencia en Internet
http://live.com

Comment

Hola desde Guadalajara:

Me interesan las copias que usted consiguio, seria posible
que las escaneara o fotografiara digitalmente para que pueda
enviarmelas por medio de e-mail o del servicio de pando.

Mil gracias por su ayuda.

Atentamente:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

El día 11/12/06, Bill Figueroa escribió:
>
> Sr. Reyes,
>
> Le agradecería me enviara una lista de las personas que otorgaron
> testamentos de los cuales tiene Ud. fotocopias. Me interesan
> principalmente
> los testamentos de personas apellidadas Lozano, Romo de Vivar, Trillo,
> Tiscareño y López de Nava. Muchas gracias.
>
> Guillermo Figueroa Strecker
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "felipe reyes"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:46 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Testamentaría histórica
>
>
> Pongo a disposición del grupo "Nuestros Ranchos", reproducciones de
> documentos esenciales para el estudio genealógico de las familias: Romo de
> Vivar; De Trillo (Trillo); López de Nava; De Reyes (Reyes); De Tiscareño
> (Tiscareño); Villalobos; Lozano; Muñóz de la Barba y Cid Escobar. Se trata
> de una compilación de fotocopias de Testamentos registrados entre 1680 y
> 1780 en Aguascalientes, que amablemente me ha proporcionado el Archivo
> Notarial del Estado de Aguascalientes, como parte de sus servicios de
> atención a investrigadores. Felipe Reyes Romo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Te gusta estar en control, crea tu propia experiencia en Internet
> http://live.com
>

PRESENTACION

Published by LUPITA GONZALE… –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

SALUDOS, A TODO EL GRUPO
SOY MIEMBRO NUEVO EN ESTE ESPACIO, MI NOMBRE ES LUPITA GONZALEZ, EL INTERES DE PERTENECER AQUI, ES QUE MI ASCENDENCIA POR PARTE DE MI MADRE, ES DE LOS ALTOS DE JALISCO, EN ESPECIAL VALLE DE GUADALUPE, PERO TAMBIEN SUS ALREDEDORES,JALOSTOTITLAN, CAÑADAS, LAGOS, NOCHISTLAN, AGUASCALIENTES, Y OTROS LUGARES, LLEVO MENOS DE UN AÑO HACIENDO EL ARBOL GENEALOGICO DE LA FAMILIA, Y CREO QUE LLEVO ALGO AVANZADO, ESTOY DISPUESTA A COMPARTIR INFORMACION, SI EXISTEN PERSONAS FUERA DE GUADALAJARA, LES PUEDO APOYAR BUSCANDO EN LOS ARCHIVOS DE LA SAGRADA MITRA.

Comments

Published by jalfonsohr – Thu, 2008-02-07 07:34 | Permalink

Comment

Mi madre--María de los Angeles Romo Quezada. nació en Encarnación de Díaz, jalisco, en 1914. Sus padres, Simón Romo Garcia, y su madre, maría de la Cruz Quezada Ramirez, ambos de Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco. Me gustaría saber más detalles de sus familias, ya que ignoro más detalles...podrías auxiliarme?
Un afectuoso saludo.
Alfonso H. Romo

Published by Maureen Bejar – Sat, 2008-01-26 14:08 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Lupita:
Welcome to the group. Many of us are researching the same names. Please check the GEDCOM link on this site for any person matching your research. I have Alvarez, Casillas, Rubalcava, Ledesma, Alva and Orozco in my database. I have many Ledesma's mainly from San Miguel El Alto and Tepatitlan, but I do have some documentation on Ledesma's from Valle de Guadalupe, which are not linked to my family tree yet. Please let me know some names you are researching and I will take a look if I have any documentation and would be happy to forward it.

Maureen Bejar

Comment

Saludos a todos:

Soy nuevo en este grupo, mi nombre es Rafael David
Rivera Pérez, Nací en Guadalajara, Jalisco y
actualmente radico en Nogales, Sonora.

Mis ancestros son de Jalisco (Guadalajara, Juchitlan,
Ahualulco y al parecer Ameca).

Mi interés es investigar sobre los apellidos "Rivera",
"Lizaola", "Tisnado" y "Martín del Campo"

Mucho les agradeceré cualquier información que me
faciliten de estos apellidos.

Así mismo agradeceré si alguien me indica como
localizar el film del "censo de 1830 de México"

Gracias

____________________________________________________________________________________
¡Capacidad ilimitada de almacenamiento en tu correo!
No te preocupes más por el espacio de tu cuenta con Correo Yahoo!:
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Comment

I am getting this error when I try to access the Nuestros Ranchos website:

Fatal error: Duplicate entry 'f3207a588827b12a8bf3fef61fe93283' for key 1
query: INSERT IGNORE INTO sessions (sid, uid, hostname, timestamp) VALUES
('f3207a588827b12a8bf3fef61fe93283', 0, '168.158.180.249', 1201991291) in
/home/.talley/lafamilia/nuestrosranchos.org/includes/database.mysql.inc on
line 66

Is it the site or is it me?

V-

--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Comment

Belinda Alvarez

Hello Maureen
It´s only today that I find your note from 2008 and hope you're still active in Nuestros Ranchos. Three of my grandparents were from Jalisco. I'm also interested in Alvarez and Rubalcava. My father's paternal grandfather was Filemón Alvarez whom we've always thought was from Corral del Monte Jalisco, but I have no evidence of this. He got married with Filomena Rubalcava on January 7th 1884, whom according to the file I found in FamilySearch, was born on July 12th 1857 in San Juan de los Lagos. It is also there where they got married. They had four children, one of them my grandfather José Refugio. Could these be people you're related to?

I'm afraid I don't more information than this, but hope it is useful for you.

In my case, I'd like to know more of Filomeno Alvarez. I'm also looking for Marcelino Alvarez who was a much loved doctor in Arandas. I know there's a street there named after him and I know he's related to my family but I don't know how.

Another Alvarez I'm looking for is Salvador Alvarez, he was married with Dolores Camarena Garcia but I don't know where he was born nor when ... nor how I'm related to him. Have you found any of these names in your research?

Well, I hope to hear from you soon
Greetings from Sweden
Belinda

Published by Bertha Medina … – Fri, 2008-01-25 15:18 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Lupita

Con interés leí tu presentación en Nuestros Ranchos y por tu ofrecimiento de ayudar buscando en los archivos de la Mitra en Guadalajara, me imagino que vives en esa bella ciudad. Si es así tal vez seas la persona que he estado buscando desde hace mucho. Yo vivo en USA y se me ha dificultado mucho encontrar datos de mi familia materna, pues aunque tengo familiares en Guadalajara, ninguno tiene tiempo o el interés necesario para ayudarme. Mi abuelo nació en Tepatitlán, pero se casó en Guadalajara de donde era mi abuela. Si no fuera mucha molestia te agradecería si pudieras localizar:

El acta de matrimonio de mis abuelos, se casaron en 1904, probablemente entre marzo y mayo, casi estoy segura que la boda fué en la catedral de Guadalajara. Eran: Tiburcio Navarro Acévez y Ma. Elena Ramírez Valdéz. o,

El acta de nacimiento o fé de bautizo de mi abuela Ma. Elena Ramírez Valdéz el día de Corpus Cristi (mayo) de 1882 u 83 en Guadalajara, era gemela su hermanita falleció no sé si antes o después del bautizo. Sus padres fueron Anastacio Ramírez y Amada Valdéz.

Por supuesto que cualquier gasto que implique lo anterior, gustosa lo cubriré.

También me interesaría saber si existe algún registro de artesanos y en dónde, pues mi bisabuelo Anastacio Ramírez era ebanista y hay rumores en la familia de que trabajó en la construcción del altar mayor de la Catedral de Guadalajara, pero no sé a ciencia cierta.

En nov. de 2006 estuvimos en Tepatitlán y aunque no encontré mucho sobre mis ancestros, de casualidad nos tocaron las celebraciones del primer aniversario de la beatificación de Anacleto González Flores que era primo segundo de mi abuelo Tiburcio, por eso y por conocer el lugar sí valió la pena la visita a ése lugar. Siendo tú González González tal vez tengas alguna relación con Anacleto, o tal vez no, pues es un apellido muy común.

Mi esposo y yo estaremos en Guadalajara del 3 al 6 de marzo próximo y podríamos recoger y pagar por lo que puedas conseguirme, además nos dará mucho gusto conocerte. Si es posible lo anterior por favor mandame tu teléfono para llamarte en cuanto lleguemos.

Gracias por tu ofrecimiento y saludos

Bertha Medina de Boehm

En Busca de mis Antepasados
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm

Published by Ramirez – Fri, 2008-01-25 14:00 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Lupita, me da gusto que hayas encontrado esta página. Cada vez somos mas personas quienes compartimos encestros en los Altos de Jalisco y sobre todo el interés de conocer nuestras raíces ancestrales.

Yo vivo en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, pero al igual que tu, tengo ancestros en casi toda la región; Cañadas de Obregón, Valle de Guadalupe, Jalostotitlán, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Teocaltiche, Ocotlán, Nochistlán, etc.

Entre los apellidos que encuentro entre mis ancestros están los Ramírez de Hermosillo, Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, Díaz de León, Domínguez, González Rubio, González de Hermosillo, Martín del Campo, Martín de Sotomayor, de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, Gallardo, Padilla Dávila, Aranda, de Luna, Ibarra, Gutiérrez Coronado, Romero de Chávez, Hernández Gamiño, Pérez Franco, Franco de Paredes, Casillas y Cabrera, López de Elizalde, Ruiz de Esparza, Gallegos, Muñoz de Nava, Becerra, Santa Cruz, Guajardo, de Aceves, Rodríguez de Portugal, Gómez de Portugal, Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, Gutiérrez de Mendoza, Gutiérrez Rubio, Muñoz de Hermosillo, Rodríguez de Frías, González de Híjar, Rodríguez de Híjar, de la Torre Ledezma, Delgadillo, Vallejo, Cornejo, Covarrubias, Arias Maldonado, González de Rubalcava, Villalobos, de Anda Altamirano, de la Cámara y Menoyo, Marín de Peñaloza, de Loza, Fernández de Rueda, Castellanos, Valdivia, Torres, de Ochoa Garibay, Navarro Gaytán, Ortíz de Zárate, Plascencia, Lozano Isla, Gil, Macías Valadez, Estrada Bocanegra, Cortés, Ruiz de Velasco, España, Sonora, Ulloa, Sigala, de Alba, Carvajal de Ulloa, de León, Murguía, Cano, Montes, de la Paz y Castro, Tello de Orozco, Camarena, Romo de Vivar, Velázquez, Ramírez de Mendoza, Muñoz de la Barba, Vargas Machuca, Enríquez del Castillo, Marentes de Otaduy, Reynoso y Rentería, Quijas y Escalante, Bracamonte, Íñiguez, etc.

En lo que pueda ayudarte estoy a tus órdenes.
Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Participa en nanometrajes y gana grandes premios
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Comment

Holá, Jorge-Luis!

Hablo español, pero me hace dificil escribir, porque mis estudios eran en
inglés. Me perdone los errores.

He estado trabajando mucho en la genealogía de mi familia ROMO DE VIVAR.
Los ancestros conocidos son de Encarnación de Díaz y de Tepatitlán de
Morelos, y más tarde, de Guadalajara. Lo que he descubierto, se puede ver
abajo. Pero antes de Gregorio ROMO, (1780), no encuentro nada más que
nombres, y antes de Bernabe ROMO, pierdo la sequencia.

Noto que uno de los nombres que se encuentra en su presentación es PADILLA
RIVERA. Mi tía M. Guadalupe Romo Gutiérrez se casó con Salvador Padilla
Rivera. ¿Puede ser que es la misma familia? Me puede ayudar a seguir la
sequencia más para atrás?

Y algo más. Se dice en la familia que Salvador Padilla Rivera, cuando se
casó con M. Guadalupe Romo, compró la hacienda familiar, la Hacienda de
Calderón, no muy lejos de la ciudadad de Zapotlanejo, que ahora se llama
Ex-Hacienda de Calderón. Me interesaría aprender más sobre la hacienda y su
historia en la familia ROMO (DE VIVAR) antes de la venta.

Me puede ayudar o dirigir a donde pueda aprender más acerca la familia?

John Karr Wolfe de ROMO

GENEALOGÍA DE LA FAMILIA ROMO DE VIVAR DE ENCARNACION DE DÍAZ

1. Bernabe ROMO DE VIVAR
+Anna Gertrudis FRANCO
2. Gregorio ROMO b. 1780
+ María de los Dolores de VILLALOBOS b/n. 1782 in
Villa de la Encarnación, Jalisco
3. José Pablo ROMO, b. (before/ántes de)1807
in Encarnación de Díaz
+ María de la Asención CORNEJO
4. José de los Santos ROMO
DE VIVAR
+ María Guadalupe PEDROZA, b. 11 Dec 1843 in
Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco, daughter of Nestor PEDROZA and María Antonia
DÍAZ
5.
Alberto ROMO DE VIVAR, b 29 Oct 1863
5.
Emiliana ROMO DE VIVAR, b. 8 Oct 1865, in Jalisco
5.
Guadalupe ROMO DE VIVAR, b 18 Apr 1867
5. José
Aureliano ROMO (DE VIVAR), b 15 Jun 1869
5. José
Calixto de Jesús ROMO (DE VIVAR), 14 Oct 1871 in Encarnación de Díaz
+ María Juana PEÑA, b. 7 Mar 1873,
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Daughter of Pedro PEÑA and Pilar TOSTADO
6. Moisés J ROMO, b 9 Feb 1895,
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco
+ María Trinidad VÁZQUEZ, b. 7 Jun 1890 in
Guadalajara, Jalisco, d. 1 Nov 1971 in Los Angeles, California, USA,
daughter of José Epitacio VÁZQUEZ and Mónica VENEGAS
7. Javier ROMO b. 1916 in Mexico,
d. 1916.
7. María Rebeca “Camilla” ROMO, b. 26 Aug
1918 in Ocatlán, Jalisco
+ John Marion WOLFE b. 16 Jun 1900, Kansas,
USA, d. 20 Mar 1976, San Francisco, California, USA
8. John Karr WOLFE, b. 8 Feb 1942, San
Francisco, California, USA
8. Carmelita WOLFE, b. 15 Apr 1944, San
Francisco, California, USA
7. Xavier ROMO, b. 13 Apr 1920,
Guadalajara, Jalisco, d. 10 Oct 1977, Torrance, California, USA
7. Eduardo A ROMO, b. 6 Jul 1921,
Guadalajara, Jalisco, d. 28 May 1975, Los Angeles, California
7. María Teresa Romo, b. 1923, Mexico
7. Harry Joseph ROMO, b. 1926
7. William J ROMO, 18 Apr 1927, Fresno,
Fresno, California, d.
7. Gloria Aurora ROMO, b. 1 Nov 1929,
Fresno, California, d. 1 Sep 2004, Chatsworth, California
6. David ROMO, b. 4 Mar 1896, Tepatitlán de
Morelos, Jalisco, d. Apr 1977, Fresno, California
6. Elías F ROMO, b. 27 Jan 1897,
Guadalajara, Jalisco, d. 21 Jun 1971, San Diego, California, USA
6. Emma ROMO, b. abt 1900
6. Beatríz “Betty” ROMO, b. 29 Jul 1902 in
Mexico, d. 15 Oct 1964, Fresno, California
6. Emilia ROMO, b. 8 Aug 1903 in Tepatitlán
de Morelos, Jalisco, d. 12 Jun 1966 in Contra Costa, California
6. María de Jesús ROMO, b. 1906, Mexico
6. Agustín ROMO, b. abt 1908, Mexico
6. Sara ROMO, b. abt 1911, Tepatitlán de
Morelos, Jalisco
+ Leonardo
6. María Guadalupe “Lupe” ROMO, b. abt 1912
6. Benjamín Joseph ROMO, b. 8 Oct 1915,
Mexico, d. 15 Feb 1995, Albany, Alameda, California, USA
5.
Josefina ROMO (DE VIVAR), b. 2 May 1874 in Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco
5. Luís
ROMO (DE VIVAR), 23 Aug 1875, Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco
+
María Guadalupe GUTIÉRREZ, b. 1879, Mexico, d. 1987, Guadalajara, Jalisco

6. Clotilde ROMO

6. María Guadalupe ROMO, b. 1911, Mexico

+ Salvador PADILLA Rivera
5.
Alberto ROMO (DE VIVAR), 4 Jul 1877, Mexico

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Luis
Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:45 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] PRESENTACION

Entre los apellidos que encuentro entre mis ancestros están los Ramírez de
Hermosillo …

Comment

Hola Karr, creo que ya habíamos platicado acerca del Rancho de Calderón, pues como te comenté unos ancestros míos de apellido Gutiérrez vivían ahí, aunque no se mucho sobre ellos, y del rancho pues lo conozco pero no se nada de su historia. En cuanto a la familia Romo de Vivar, lo único que se es que Bernabé Romo de Vivar casó en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco el día 27 de enero de 1761 con Ana Gertrudis Franco.

Ellos tuvieron un hijo llamado José Gregorio Romo de Vivar, tu ancestro, el cual fue bautizado en Aguascalientes el día 20 de marzo de 1772. Se casó en Lagos de Moreno el día 04 de septiembre de 1793 con María de los Dolores Villalobos.

José Gregorio Romo de Vivar y María de los Dolores Villalobos tuvieron un hijo al que le pusieron José Pablo Romo de Vivar, bautizado en la Villa de Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco el día 28 de marzo de 1807. Casó en Encarnación de Díaz el día 18 de noviembre de 1822 con María de la Asención Cornejo.

José Pablo Romo de Vivar y María de la Asención Cornejo tuvieron un hijo llamada José de los Santos Romo Cornejo que fue bautizado el día 02 de noviembre de 1837 en Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco. Casó el 29 de mayo de 1861 con María Guadalupe Pedroza Díaz en Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco.

Creo que lo demás lo tienes tu mas completo. Si por algo no puedes revisar el acta de matrimonio de Bernabé Romo de Vivar y Ana Gertrudis Franco, yo puedo revisarla cuando vaya a la Parroquia de San Francisco en Tepatitlán, eso si, no te aseguro cuando, ya que no tengo fecha para ir. Avísame si quieres el dato.
Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¡Actúa tu película favorita y gana fabulosos premios!
http://cine.prodigymsn.com/nanometraje

Comment

Hola Jorge ,como estas ? Ojala que estes bien. Mencionas La Lina Reynoso ,donde son tus antepasados Reynoso.Mis ante pasados eran de San Julian desde Jalostotitlan. Lo que yo ha investigado todo la Reynosada son los mismos. Yo tambien me toca casi igual la mayor parte de tus antepasados. Mi mero mero antepasado Reynoso era Francisco Reynoso casado con Josefa Renteria . Francisco Reynoso hijo de Francisco Reynoso( de Peru) y Marian Padilla Davila y Velasco.
Ronnie Reynoso casi pariente a todos de Los altos> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:45:11 -0600> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] PRESENTACION> > > Hola Lupita, me da gusto que hayas encontrado esta página. Cada vez somos mas personas quienes compartimos encestros en los Altos de Jalisco y sobre todo el interés de conocer nuestras raíces ancestrales. > > Yo vivo en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, pero al igual que tu, tengo ancestros en casi toda la región; Cañadas de Obregón, Valle de Guadalupe, Jalostotitlán, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Teocaltiche, Ocotlán, Nochistlán, etc.> > Entre los apellidos que encuentro entre mis ancestros están los Ramírez de Hermosillo, Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, Díaz de León, Domínguez, González Rubio, González de Hermosillo, Martín del Campo, Martín de Sotomayor, de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, Gallardo, Padilla Dávila, Aranda, de Luna, Ibarra, Gutiérrez Coronado, Romero de Chávez, Hernández Gamiño, Pérez Franco, Franco de Paredes, Casillas y Cabrera, López de Elizalde, Ruiz de Esparza, Gallegos, Muñoz de Nava, Becerra, Santa Cruz, Guajardo, de Aceves, Rodríguez de Portugal, Gómez de Portugal, Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, Gutiérrez de Mendoza, Gutiérrez Rubio, Muñoz de Hermosillo, Rodríguez de Frías, González de Híjar, Rodríguez de Híjar, de la Torre Ledezma, Delgadillo, Vallejo, Cornejo, Covarrubias, Arias Maldonado, González de Rubalcava, Villalobos, de Anda Altamirano, de la Cámara y Menoyo, Marín de Peñaloza, de Loza, Fernández de Rueda, Castellanos, Valdivia, Torres, de Ochoa Garibay, Navarro Gaytán, Ortíz de Zárate, Plascencia, Lozano Isla, Gil, Macías Valadez, Estrada Bocanegra, Cortés, Ruiz de Velasco, España, Sonora, Ulloa, Sigala, de Alba, Carvajal de Ulloa, de León, Murguía, Cano, Montes, de la Paz y Castro, Tello de Orozco, Camarena, Romo de Vivar, Velázquez, Ramírez de Mendoza, Muñoz de la Barba, Vargas Machuca, Enríquez del Castillo, Marentes de Otaduy, Reynoso y Rentería, Quijas y Escalante, Bracamonte, Íñiguez, etc.> > En lo que pueda ayudarte estoy a tus órdenes.> Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.> _________________________________________________________________> Participa en nanometrajes y gana grandes premios> http://cine.prodigymsn.com/nanometraje&gt; -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comment

Hi there ,

I have de Luna in my line she was Maria Pasquala de Luna married to Juan de Alvarado thier son Jose Antonio Candelario Alvarado de Luna was my Great great great Grandfather , Candelario was born 10th of Feb.1792 in Saltillo , Coahuila and married Maria Quirina Saldivar Gomez in Villa de Sanitago , Nuevo Leon 26 of Oct 1844 . I don't have any info on Juan or Pasquala such as birth dates , baptisms or marriage dates . If you have any info on them I sure would appreciate it .

Thank you ,
Welester G. Alvarado

lo, Martín del Campo, Martín de Sotomayor, de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, Gallardo, Padilla Dávila, Aranda, de Luna, Ibarra, Gutiérrez Coronado, Romero de Chávez, Hernández Gamiño, Pérez Franco, Franco de Paredes, Casillas y Cabrera, López de Elizalde, Ruiz de Esparza, Gallegos, Muñoz de Nava, Becerra, Santa Cruz, Guajardo, de Aceves, Rodríguez de Portugal, Gómez de Portugal, Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, Gutiérrez de Mendoza, Gutiérrez Rubio, Muñoz de Hermosillo, Rodríguez de Frías, González de Híjar, Rodríguez de Híjar, de la Torre Ledezma, Delgadillo, Vallejo, Cornejo, Covarrubias, Arias Maldonado, González de Rubalcava, Villalobos, de Anda Altamirano, de la Cámara y Menoyo, Marín de Peñaloza, de Loza, Fernández de Rueda, Castellanos, Valdivia, Torres, de Ochoa Garibay, Navarro Gaytán, Ortíz de Zárate, Plascencia, Lozano Isla, Gil, Macías Valadez, Estrada Bocanegra, Cortés, Ruiz de Velasco, España, Sonora, Ulloa, Sigala, de Alba, Carvajal de Ulloa, de León, Murguía, Cano, Montes, de la Paz y Castro, Tello de Orozco, Camarena, Romo de Vivar, Velázquez, Ramírez de Mendoza, Muñoz de la Barba, Vargas Machuca, Enríquez del Castillo, Marentes de Otaduy, Reynoso y Rentería, Quijas y Escalante, Bracamonte, Íñiguez, etc.> > En lo que pueda ayudarte estoy a tus órdenes.> Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.> _________________________________________________________________> Participa en nanometrajes y gana grandes premios> http://cine.prodigymsn.com/nanometraje&gt; -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org&gt; -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
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Published by Francisco Herr… – Fri, 2008-01-25 09:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Lupita, te comento que llevo avanzado mi árbol (Ruvalcaba, Moreno, Gonzalez, Gómez Portugal, etc.) con rigenes en los Altos de Jalisco... puedes consultarlo en ancestry.com... si quieres acceder a ellos házmelo saber ara que te envíe una invitación de consulta.
abrazos
paco herrera

LUPITA GONZALEZ GONZALEZ escribió:

SALUDOS, A TODO EL GRUPO
SOY MIEMBRO NUEVO EN ESTE ESPACIO, MI NOMBRE ES LUPITA GONZALEZ, EL INTERES DE PERTENECER AQUI, ES QUE MI ASCENDENCIA POR PARTE DE MI MADRE, ES DE LOS ALTOS DE JALISCO, EN ESPECIAL VALLE DE GUADALUPE, PERO TAMBIEN SUS ALREDEDORES,JALOSTOTITLAN, CAÑADAS, LAGOS, NOCHISTLAN, AGUASCALIENTES, Y OTROS LUGARES, LLEVO MENOS DE UN AÑO HACIENDO EL ARBOL GENEALOGICO DE LA FAMILIA, Y CREO QUE LLEVO ALGO AVANZADO, ESTOY DISPUESTA A COMPARTIR INFORMACION, SI EXISTEN PERSONAS FUERA DE GUADALAJARA, LES PUEDO APOYAR BUSCANDO EN LOS ARCHIVOS DE LA SAGRADA MITRA.
LES COMENTO QUE HA SIDO UNA SORPRESA PARA MI ENCONTRARME, CON APELLIDOS COMO DE RUEDA, ALVAREZ, CASILLAS, MARTIN DEL CAMPO, RUBALCAVA, LEDESMA, ALMEIDA, ROMO DE VIVAR,TISCAREÑO, MOLINA, DE ALBA, LOMELI, TELLO OROZCO ,MASIAS VALADES, DE LA MORA, ZAMORA Y MUCHISIMOS MAS QUE NO RECUERDO POR AHORA, SE QUE AQUI ENCONTRARE MAS DE ALGUN FAMILIAR, Y DESEO SER UN BUEN ELEMENTO EN ESTE GRUPO....
QUEDO A SUS ORDENES .......LUPITA GONZALEZ

Published by Bill Figueroa – Fri, 2008-01-25 08:15 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Lupita. Bienvenida al grupo. Me alegra saber que ya tienes un año de estudiar tu genealogía y que has logrado avanzar bastante. Comparto contigo algunos de los apellidos que mencionaste, y creo que en algún momento dado podremos compartir alguna información genealógica. Aunque yo soy originario de Guatemala y mis raices en su mayoría están en Centroamérica, Estados Unidos, Alemania y otros países, tengo también raices muy profundas en México. Empezé a estudiar mi genealogía hace algunos años y he logrado saber quienes fueron mis ancestros desde la independencia y a través del virreinato, hasta llegar a España y los tiempos anteriores al descubrimiento de América. Si tienes unos minutos, te contaré como encontré a mi ancestros de Aguascalientes, Zacatecas y los Altos de Jalisco, porque creo que esto podría servirte como orientación.

Empezé con mi abuelo, Guillermo Strecker Frías, hijo menor de Wilhelm L. Strecker y de Josefa Frías Esparza. Mi bisabuela era mexicana. María Josefa, a quien cariñosamente llamaban Pepa, nació en Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes, el 19 Mar 1848 y falleció en la ciudad de Guatemala el 11 Mar 1921. Josefa era hija de Antonio Frías Jaso y Refugio Ruiz de Esparza. Poco a poco he ido hilando la historia de mis antepasados. Al principio fue fácil, ya que mi madre me había contado mucho acerca de sus abuelos. Tengo muchas fotografías de ellos y de sus hijas Florencia, Beatriz y Berta Strecker Frías, hermanas de Guillermo. Las tres nacieron en Tepic (Nayarit) en 1871, 1872 y 1876 respectivamente. Mi bisabuelo trasladó a su familia a Guatemala por el año de 1879, cuando fue llamado por el gobierno del general Justo Rufino Barrios para participar en la contrucción del ferrocarril interoceánico. Eran los tiempos del porfiriato en Mexico y de la reforma liberal en Guatemala. Mi bisabuelo, de origen alemán pero educado en los Estados Unidos, era ingeniero civil. La familia Strecker Frías nunca regresó a México. Mi bisabuelo murió pocos años después de llegar a Guatemala de fiebre amarilla, cuando participaba en la contrucción del Canal de Panamá.

Con esa información y algunas cartas que había recibido mi bisabuela de su hermana Virginia a finales del siglo XIX y principios del siglo XX, fui a visitar a mis familiares en México en el año 2002. Luego hize un viaje a Tepic donde busqué información en el Archivo Histórico del Estado de Nayarit y en los Archivos Parroquiales del Sagrario. Lo primero que encontré en esos registros fue el matrimonio de mis bisabuelos, quienes casaron en 1870 en la catedral de Tepic. Aunque mi bisabuelo era Luterano, no tuvo inconveniente en convertirse al catolicismo con tal de casarse con Josefa. En ese tiempo la Iglesia Católica exigía que los extranjeros solicitaran una dispensa llamada de ultramarinos antes de casarse, la cual le fue otorgada en 1870 por la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. En ese tiempo Nayarit era Territorio Militar pero anteriormente había sido Séptimo Cantón de Jalisco. La parroquia dependía de Guadalajara. Ya con esa información visité al Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra, donde logré localizar toda la documentación del proceso matrimonial y de su conversión al catolicismo. Los datos me fueron muy útiles, ya que las entrevistas que sostuvo el párroco con mis bisabuelos son una fuente muy importante para mi genealogía.

De ahí en adelante fui buscando datos en los registros de Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes y otras ciudades donde fui encontrando datos de mis ancestros y de muchísimas familias con las que se entrelazaron a través de los siglos. Por el Ruiz de Esparza me he remontado muchas generaciones hasta llegar al genearca de ese apellido, Lope Ruiz de Esparza. Durante el proceso he ido acumulando una infinidad de datos de los fundadores y primeros pobladores de Aguascalientes, y en general de toda la región de los Altos de Jalisco. He hecho varios viajes a México y pronto estaré visitando la importante y bella ciudad de Aguascalientes. Mi último viaje fué en 2006.

Entre los apellidos que más me interesan están Ruiz de Esparza, Frias Jaso, Romo de Vivar, López de Elizalde, Gabai de Moctezuma, Trillo, Delgado, Escobedo, Guevara, Iñiguez, Ulloa, Martínez de Sotomayor, Alvarado, Escalera, Lozano, etc. etc. Sin embargo, tengo ya mas de 8,000 personas en mi base de datos, casi todos de Aguascalientes, Nochistlán, Mexticacán, Teocaltiche y en general de muchos pueblos y ciudades de los Altos de Jalisco. Mis líneas de Centroamérica, Estados Unidos, Alemania y otros países las llevo separadamente y son otros tantos miles. Ni para que contarte.

Es todo por hoy, Lupita. Avísame si puedo ayudarte en algo.

Un saludo desde Dallas, Texas U.S.A.

Bill Figueroa

Published by sandragomezenriquez – Fri, 2008-01-25 06:30 | Permalink

Comment

Lupita,

Parece que entendi que estas en Guadalajara.

Aqui todos tenemos un interes comun... Preservar la historia de nuestros antepasados para que las nuevas generaciones no los olviden. Todos companeros y todos dispuestos a ayudar. Yo tengo aproximadamente 6 meses en el grupo.

Bienvenida!

Saludos desde San Antonio, TX,
Sandra Gomez de Mendoza

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Published by sandragomezenriquez – Fri, 2008-01-25 06:30 | Permalink

Comment

Lupita,

Parece que entendi que estas en Guadalajara.

Aqui todos tenemos un interes comun... Preservar la historia de nuestros antepasados para que las nuevas generaciones no los olviden. Todos companeros y todos dispuestos a ayudar. Yo tengo aproximadamente 6 meses en el grupo.

Bienvenida!

Saludos desde San Antonio, TX,
Sandra Gomez de Mendoza

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Abbreviation of a name

Published by gpf13 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I need some help in interpreting an abbreviation of a name.

I have seen names such as "Ma. Ha." and "Ha. Rafaela" in baptismal records.

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Sat, 2011-07-23 14:21 | Permalink

Comment

It could be Helena, Herminia, Hilaria, Hortensia, Heraclia.... It may even be a name not currently spelled with H. Since they are baptismal records I would check the names of the saints of the day, week and month the girl was born and baptised.
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

The abbreviation is not "Ha" it is "Jfa" and it stands for Josefa. There are places where it is written with the letters clearly separated, and other where they are joined, hence the confusion. Josefa is also written Josepha, and abbreviated Jpha.

Names beginning with H are not common; in this particular register, quite rare in fact. The abbreviation Jfa is, however, common.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Very good!

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
gpf13@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 9:58 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problem solved!

The abbreviation is not "Ha" it is "Jfa" and it stands for Josefa. There are
places where it is written with the letters clearly separated, and other
where they are joined, hence the confusion. Josefa is also written Josepha,
and abbreviated Jpha.

Names beginning with H are not common; in this particular register, quite
rare in fact. The abbreviation Jfa is, however, common.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Gaps researching baptisms in Celaya - Family Search

Published by pcenteno –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I've been going through the Family Seach site, searching in Celaya for baptisms around the year 1630 The years jump from abt 1622 to the 1640s.

Comments

Published by Jaime Alvarado – Tue, 2011-07-26 23:15 | Permalink

Comment

Paul,
Gaps in the records are not uncommon and there are many sources. Sometimes volumes were missing, as these could have been destroyed (fire, water, rats, etc.). In other cases, a period maybe misplaced, and with luck sometimes you stumble to records in other volumes of very different decades, and sometimes centuries. My only recommendation is not to give up and keep on searching.

Jaime Alvarado

No se como buscar este microfilm, no esta en el consecutivo, disculpen , todabia no me familiarizo con el buscador.

Published by salvagr –
Forums
Genealogy Research

https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api…

Comments

Published by Marthaharo – Tue, 2011-07-26 12:15 | Permalink

Comment

sigue este link

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Ahora diviertete buscando por fecha!!!

2011/7/26

> https://www.familysearch.org/**search/recordDetails/show?uri=**
> https://api.familysearch.org/**records/pal:/MM9.1.r/9MTX-ZKR/**p1
>
> Esta es la liga, es el Papa de mi tatalabuelo, se la fecho pero no e
> visto el microfilm.
> les agrdesco de antemano.
> Salvador Gutierrez

Comment

es mas facil buscar por estado, ciudad, tipo de sacramento (bautizo
matrimonio, defuncion) y finalmente el año.

Recuerda que en algunos pueblos estan revueltos indios con españoles y en
otros estan separados por eso es mucho mas fácil cuando tienes el número de
film como es en tu caso, ahora solo tienes que tener un poco de paciencia e
ir buscando por las fechas... suerte

2011/7/26 patty haro

> sigue este link
>
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> Ahora diviertete buscando por fecha!!!
>
> 2011/7/26
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/**search/recordDetails/show?uri=**
>> https://api.familysearch.org/**records/pal:/MM9.1.r/9MTX-ZKR/**p1
>>
>> Esta es la liga, es el Papa de mi tatalabuelo, se la fecho pero no e
>> visto el microfilm.
>> les agrdesco de antemano.
>> Salvador Gutierrez

Introducción al grupo: Romero Romo y Leal Carrillo de Teocaltiche

Published by grizzmex –
Forums
Genealogy Research

¡Saludos a todos, y gracias por recibirme!

Comments

Published by isloera – Tue, 2011-07-26 09:55 | Permalink

Comment

Bienvenido al sitio y espero y obtengas mucha ayuda. Yo soy nuevo en todo esto, pero gracias a este sitio ya he podido encontrar ancestros de hasta 14 generaciones y ligarlos directamente con Europa.

Por medio de este sitio me informe de un libro que se llama "San Gabriel Valley Families of Nueva Galicia" y allí hay mucha gente de Teocaltiche muchos carrillos me imagino que esa información podría ayudarte mucho. Suerte!

Israel Sustaita Loera

Olivares from Aguascalientes and Zacatecas

Published by HaciendaRomo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have hit the proverbial brick wall with my maternal Olivares line.

Comments

Published by nancasillas – Fri, 2011-07-22 17:15 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Aurora,

I find much better information in the marriage information records or in the matrimonial records. I found one record of one of Miguel Olivares' children.

It is of his daugher Martina Olivares

Marriage: 19 Mar 1832, Asientos Aquascalientas, Mexico

Groom: Dioncido Salazar

Brides father: Miguel Olivares

Brides mother: Maria Antonia Flores

Film # 1156093

If you look to see if there are marriage information records in that year 1832 and place, then scroll back and forth to the date of March 19th, you will find this record. Sometimes the marriage information records are 4 pages long and list grandparents as well.

Nancy Casillas

Saint Clair, Michigan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurora Romo"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 7:20:26 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Olivares from Aguascalientes and Zacatecas

I have hit the proverbial brick wall with my maternal Olivares line. My great, great grandfather Jose German Olivares  married Sacramento Muro in 1858 in Rincon de Romos, Ags.
They had 3 children all born in Rincon de Romos:
               Ignacio Olivares Muro 1860
               José Sostenes Olivares Muro 1863
               Rosalía Olivares Muro 1866
Jose Matias Olivares my GGGG married Margarita Barrera in 1821 Rincon de Romos, Ags
They had 8 children all born in Rincón de Romos, Ags
                José Eufemio Olivares Barrera 1822
                Ancelmo Olivares Barrera 1825
               Petra Matias Olivares Barrera 1826
               Maria Epifania Olivares Barreras 1829
               Maria Marta Olivares Barreras 1831
               Maria Catarina Olivares Barreras 1833
              José  Trinidad Olivares Barrera 1836
               José German Olivares  Barrera1838
José Gabriel Olivares  married Ma. Rafaela Cervantes 1797, Rincón de Romos, Ags
 Their children all born in Rincón de Romos, Ags
               Francisca Dionicia Guadalupe Olivares Cervantes
               José Matias Olivares Cervantes 1802
                Jesús Olivares Cervantes 1805
               Felipe Olivares Cervantes 1807
                Juan Olivares Cervantes 1809
                 Norberto Olivares Cervantes 1813  
                 José Roberto Olivares Cervantes 1815
                Maria Felipa Olivares Cervantes 1819:
Jose Miguel Olivares married Maria Antonia Flores about 1779 I think in Aguas.
              Their children:
           José Gabriel Olivares Flores, born 1780 San Luis de Letras, Aguas.
           Maria Martina Olivares Flores 1790, Tepatitlan de Morelos
           Juan Clímaco Olivares Flores 1794,   Pinos, Zacatecas
           José de Santa Marta Olivares Flores 1798, Pinos Zacatecas
 
This is where I am stuck, I have looked up the church baptism records for all of Jose Miguel Olivares’ children and none list the grandparents.  Where can I go from here? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Nececito ayuda con la rama de los Olivares
Gracias por qualquier asistencia  que me puedan dar
Aurora DeAnda Olivares (de Romo)                                               

Comment

Aurora Romo

Thank you Nancy,
I had already looked at the marriage document of Martina Olivares and Dionicio Salazar dated Mar. 19, 1832. It did not contain the names of Martina's grandparents.I looked up the Information Matrimonial as you suggested. I found some info on the Film from Asientos Aguascalientes for the year 1931 . The info starts on Image 308. I have gone thru it a few times and don't seem to find the grandparents. The handwriting is VERY difficult to read, I may be missing it.
Again Thank you for your help
Aurora

Need help translating Marriage of Nicolas Garzia & Maria de San Juan

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Yesterday I received help in reading the marriage record for Cayetano Garcia whose parents were Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan.

Comments

Published by arturoramos – Thu, 2011-07-21 02:34 | Permalink

Comment

Emilie:

Your record reads as follows with spelling modernized:

Nicolás Garcia con María de San Juan, indios de Tlaxcala.

En treinta de mayo de de este año de mil setecientos y treinta y seis, en esta parroquia de San Luis Colotlán, el Padre Presbítero Juan José Sánchez Romero con licencia del parroco casó y veló según las ordenes de la Madre Iglesia a Nicolás García, indio originario del barrio de Tlaxcala, hijo legítimo de Juan de la O y a Juana Tomasa, con María de San Juan india originaria de Zacatecas, de la Hacienda de Agustín Díaz, y residente en este pueblo tiempo de ocho meses, hija legítima de Francisco Calisto y de Ana María, indios. Testigos: Simón de la Cruz, indio de sesenta años, Pedro Rojas, indio de cincuenta y seis, y Francisco dela Cruz, indio de treinta y nueve. Padrinos: Nicolás Garcia e Isabel Sánchez.

El barrio de Tlaxcala is one of the old neighborhoods in Colotlán, where traditionally the Tlaxcaltec colonizers who were brought in 1591 to found the town lived. The fact that Nicolás lived there may mean he was Tlaxcaltec and not Tepehuan or Caxcan, the local indigenous people of the region.

Also, the fact that his padrino was Nicolás García may provide a clue to the origin of his surname. He may have been named after his padrino, including his surname, which was not unheard of, particularly for indigenous people who did not have surnames or had no attachment to the Spanish surnames they had been assigned. Note that the Tlaxcaltec colonizers all had surnames when they arrived in Colotlán, some Spanish names and others Náhuatl names.

Comment

Disculpe que escriba en español. Me es mas fácil, espero ser útil.

1. Ayer transcribí el acta de matrimonio que indicas y llego basicamente a la misma redacion que arturo ramos. Por eso no la vuelvo a colocar.

2. Es un dato muy interesante y valioso el que indica arturo ramos de los indios tlaxcaltecas, tepehuanes y Caxcan que vivían en el pueblo y coinsido también en pensar que si Nicolás vivia en el barrio de Tlaxcala era porque pertenecía a este grupo de indios ya que en los pueblos de indios había ese tipo de organización por zonas aunque no se puede descartar la pertenencia a otro grupo. Puede ayudar mucho encontrar su acta de bautismo. Como quiera que sea el barrio era parte del pueblo, no un pueblo aparte por lo que concierne al origen de Nicolas.

3. Muchos de los indios de aquella época no eran registrados con apellidos, pero es posible también que el padrino haya dado el apellido García a su ahijado, aunque en este caso se trata del padrino de Matrimonio. La búsqueda se hace más dificil en estos casos porque además el apellido del padre no coincide con el de los hijos, a veces tampoco con los hijos de españoles que muchas veces colocaban el apellido de la madre en vez del paterno.

4. Respecto a la Hacienda de Agustin Díaz no creo que tenga nada que ver con la hacienda de san Agustin en Valparaiso. Agustín Díaz fue un acaudalado de aquella época que contribuyó al establecimiento y manutención de los Frayles Franciscanos que se establecieron en Zacatecas. Tenía su hacienda en la misma ciudad, según lo que sé. Me parece que dicha hacienda se encontraba en donde ahora está la capilla de San Bernabé en el Barrio de Bracho, en la misma ciudad de Zacatecas (que es de donde dice el acta que es originaria María de San Juan). No sé si Agustín Diaz tenía otras haciendas, pero el este caso me parece que habla de Agustín días como dueño de la hacienda y no como el nombre de ella. Los hacendados tenían a su servicio a veces grandes cantidades de indios que les eran encomendados a su cuidado. Ya en esta epoca las encomiendas antiguas se habían transformado en haciendas.

Es muy interesante la investigación y vale la pena seguir indagando en estas raíces. Los indios tlaxcaltecas fueron un pilar fuerte en la construccion de la sociedad colonial, fueron quienes llevaron las técnicas de labranza y cultivo (junto con los españoles) a los demás grupos étnicos del norte y occidente, como es el caso de Jalisco. Eran trasladados a formar pueblos de indios para civilizar a las demás tribus y están en la base de la identidad Mexicana junto con los aztecas. Le deseo buena suerte en su investigacion.

Jorge Elias

Comment

Jorge--- lei su respuesta y entiendo espanol un poco.

Gracias por la historia del Senor Agustin Dias. Tambien yo pense que era nombre de una persona, un hacendado. La palabra "acaudalado " no conozco, tal vez quiere decir un hombre muy rico.

Ya creo que esta pareja que se caso en Colotlan no eran los ansestros de mi marido porque los dos eran indios, y encontre otra pareja con los mismos nombres en un bautismo de Cayetano Garcia que eran espanoles con origen en Aguascalientes. Desde Cayetano hasta mi marido dicen que eran espanoles de los altos de jalisco (Encarnacion de Diaz, Lagos de Moreno, Santa Maria, etc).

Lo de los Tlaxcanes es cosa interesante para mi. No entendi "tlaxo", y Arturo sabia que quire decir Tlaxala. Mi madre era descendiente de los espanoles y los indios del los tribus Piro/Manso/Tewa de Nuevo Mexico. En 1598 Don Juan de Onate llego a esas partes. Dicen que con Onate vinieron Indios Tlaxcaltecas de Mexico para ayudar civilizar los indios barbaros de esos tiempos. Esos Tlaxcanes tenian sus barrios en Nuevo Mexico, cerca de Taos y Santa Fe, pero vivian como espanoles con derechos como los espanoles. Creo que la conquista no fue por solo tan pocos espanoles sin la ayuda de los indios enemigos de los Aztecas, etc.

Gracias,

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:47:13 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sobre la Hacienda de Agustin Díaz
>
> Disculpe que escriba en español. Me es mas fácil, espero ser útil.
>
> 1. Ayer transcribí el acta de matrimonio que indicas y llego basicamente a la misma redacion que arturo ramos. Por eso no la vuelvo a colocar.
>
> 2. Es un dato muy interesante y valioso el que indica arturo ramos de los indios tlaxcaltecas, tepehuanes y Caxcan que vivían en el pueblo y coinsido también en pensar que si Nicolás vivia en el barrio de Tlaxcala era porque pertenecía a este grupo de indios ya que en los pueblos de indios había ese tipo de organización por zonas aunque no se puede descartar la pertenencia a otro grupo. Puede ayudar mucho encontrar su acta de bautismo. Como quiera que sea el barrio era parte del pueblo, no un pueblo aparte por lo que concierne al origen de Nicolas.
>
> 3. Muchos de los indios de aquella época no eran registrados con apellidos, pero es posible también que el padrino haya dado el apellido García a su ahijado, aunque en este caso se trata del padrino de Matrimonio. La búsqueda se hace más dificil en estos casos porque además el apellido del padre no coincide con el de los hijos, a veces tampoco con los hijos de españoles que muchas veces colocaban el apellido de la madre en vez del paterno.
>
> 4. Respecto a la Hacienda de Agustin Díaz no creo que tenga nada que ver con la hacienda de san Agustin en Valparaiso. Agustín Díaz fue un acaudalado de aquella época que contribuyó al establecimiento y manutención de los Frayles Franciscanos que se establecieron en Zacatecas. Tenía su hacienda en la misma ciudad, según lo que sé. Me parece que dicha hacienda se encontraba en donde ahora está la capilla de San Bernabé en el Barrio de Bracho, en la misma ciudad de Zacatecas (que es de donde dice el acta que es originaria María de San Juan). No sé si Agustín Diaz tenía otras haciendas, pero el este caso me parece que habla de Agustín días como dueño de la hacienda y no como el nombre de ella. Los hacendados tenían a su servicio a veces grandes cantidades de indios que les eran encomendados a su cuidado. Ya en esta epoca las encomiendas antiguas se habían transformado en haciendas.
>
> Es muy interesante la investigación y vale la pena seguir indagando en estas raíces. Los indios tlaxcaltecas fueron un pilar fuerte en la construccion de la sociedad colonial, fueron quienes llevaron las técnicas de labranza y cultivo (junto con los españoles) a los demás grupos étnicos del norte y occidente, como es el caso de Jalisco. Eran trasladados a formar pueblos de indios para civilizar a las demás tribus y están en la base de la identidad Mexicana junto con los aztecas. Le deseo buena suerte en su investigacion.
>
> Jorge Elias

Comment

Arturo --

Thanks so much for that translation.

At first I thought that this couple, Nicolas and Maria San Juan, were the parents of Joseph Cayetano Garcia (as he is listed in his marriage to Anna Cleta Calzada, who is described as an espanol "originario de Aguascalientes Villa"), but I have since found what I think is Cayetano's baptism, which is a Pedro Cayetano Garcia Belasco who was baptized in the capital city of Aguascalientes on May 11, 1738. This one's parents are listed as Nicolas Garcia and Maria de Snjuan Belasco. In another record, she was described as Maria de San Juan Villalpando. The couple in the record you translated below seem to both be Indians, and as you know, Tony's folks claimed they had no Indian blood. What do you think? Which couple is more likely to be Tony's ancestors?

As I go farther back in the records, now that I have a better browser and FamilySearch keeps adding images, it is getting ever more difficult to pinpoint ancestry because back in the 1700s the grandparents were not listed. If I don't find a marriage, then I get lost and pick the wrong ancestors.

Also, as in more modern times, women mostly were listed with various different surnames according to which record one is looking at which makes research even more difficult..

Oh, that is interesting about the Tlaxcalans. You know my mother was descended from Hispanized Pueblo Indians (Piro/Manso/Tewa), and it is said that it was Tlaxcalans that may have come with the Spaniards to New Mexico in the 1500s, and that the Spaniards brought them to help civilize the Indians in each place they went. So, it wasn't a tiny handful of Spaniards that conquuered Mexico and the New World, but their friendly Indian allies. Well, I digress.

Thank you again for clearing up the language and abbreviations for me.

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:34:22 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Garcia y Maria de San Juan
>
> Emilie:
>
> Your record reads as follows with spelling modernized:
>
> Nicolás Garcia con María de San Juan, indios de Tlaxcala.
>
> En treinta de mayo de de este año de mil setecientos y treinta y seis, en esta parroquia de San Luis Colotlán, el Padre Presbítero Juan José Sánchez Romero con licencia del parroco casó y veló según las ordenes de la Madre Iglesia a Nicolás García, indio originario del barrio de Tlaxcala, hijo legítimo de Juan de la O y a Juana Tomasa, con María de San Juan india originaria de Zacatecas, de la Hacienda de Agustín Díaz, y residente en este pueblo tiempo de ocho meses, hija legítima de Francisco Calisto y de Ana María, indios. Testigos: Simón de la Cruz, indio de sesenta años, Pedro Rojas, indio de cincuenta y seis, y Francisco dela Cruz, indio de treinta y nueve. Padrinos: Nicolás Garcia e Isabel Sánchez.
>
> El barrio de Tlaxcala is one of the old neighborhoods in Colotlán, where traditionally the Tlaxcaltec colonizers who were brought in 1591 to found the town lived. The fact that Nicolás lived there may mean he was Tlaxcaltec and not Tepehuan or Caxcan, the local indigenous people of the region.
>
> Also, the fact that his padrino was Nicolás García may provide a clue to the origin of his surname. He may have been named after his padrino, including his surname, which was not unheard of, particularly for indigenous people who did not have surnames or had no attachment to the Spanish surnames they had been assigned. Note that the Tlaxcaltec colonizers all had surnames when they arrived in Colotlán, some Spanish names and others Náhuatl names.

Comment

That is so interesting and yes, it was a very small group of Spaniards, which seems almost unbelievable.  I will upload an actual record of  Coronado's exploration.  Some of you may find this interesting.  The preface is by Mendoza.

Nancy Casillas

Saint Clair, Michigan  

----- Original Message -----

From: "Emilie Garcia"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 2:02:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Garcia y Maria de San Juan

Arturo --
 
Thanks so much for that translation.  
 
At first I thought that this couple, Nicolas and Maria San Juan, were the parents of Joseph Cayetano Garcia (as he is listed in his marriage to Anna Cleta Calzada, who is described as an espanol "originario de Aguascalientes Villa"), but I have since found what I think is Cayetano's baptism, which is a Pedro Cayetano Garcia Belasco who was baptized in the capital city of Aguascalientes on May 11, 1738.  This one's parents are listed as Nicolas Garcia and Maria de Snjuan Belasco.  In another record, she was described as Maria de San Juan Villalpando.  The couple in the record you translated below seem to both be Indians, and as you know, Tony's folks claimed they had no Indian blood.  What do you think?  Which couple is more likely to be Tony's ancestors?
 
As I go farther back in the records, now that I have a better browser and FamilySearch keeps adding images, it is getting ever more difficult to pinpoint ancestry because back in the 1700s the grandparents were not listed.  If I don't find a marriage, then I get lost and pick the wrong ancestors.  
 
Also, as in more modern times, women mostly were listed with various different surnames according to which record one is looking at which makes research even more difficult..  
 
Oh, that is interesting about the Tlaxcalans.  You know my mother was descended from Hispanized Pueblo Indians (Piro/Manso/Tewa), and it is said that it was Tlaxcalans that may have come with the Spaniards to New Mexico in the 1500s, and that the Spaniards brought them to help civilize the Indians in each place they went.  So, it wasn't a tiny handful of Spaniards that conquuered Mexico and the New World, but their friendly Indian allies.  Well, I digress.  
 
Thank you again for clearing up the language and abbreviations for me.  

Emilie
 

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:34:22 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Garcia y Maria de San Juan
>
> Emilie:
>
> Your record reads as follows with spelling modernized:
>
> Nicolás Garcia con María de San Juan, indios de Tlaxcala.
>
> En treinta de mayo de de este año de mil setecientos y treinta y seis, en esta parroquia de San Luis Colotlán, el Padre Presbítero Juan José Sánchez Romero con licencia del parroco casó y veló según las ordenes de la Madre Iglesia a Nicolás García, indio originario del barrio de Tlaxcala, hijo legítimo de Juan de la O y a Juana Tomasa, con María de San Juan india originaria de Zacatecas, de la Hacienda de Agustín Díaz, y residente en este pueblo tiempo de ocho meses, hija legítima de Francisco Calisto y de Ana María, indios. Testigos: Simón de la Cruz, indio de sesenta años, Pedro Rojas, indio de cincuenta y seis, y Francisco dela Cruz, indio de treinta y nueve. Padrinos: Nicolás Garcia e Isabel Sánchez.
>
> El barrio de Tlaxcala is one of the old neighborhoods in Colotlán, where traditionally the Tlaxcaltec colonizers who were brought in 1591 to found the town lived. The fact that Nicolás lived there may mean he was Tlaxcaltec and not Tepehuan or Caxcan, the local indigenous people of the region.
>
> Also, the fact that his padrino was Nicolás García may provide a clue to the origin of his surname. He may have been named after his padrino, including his surname, which was not unheard of, particularly for indigenous people who did not have surnames or had no attachment to the Spanish surnames they had been assigned. Note that the Tlaxcaltec colonizers all had surnames when they arrived in Colotlán, some Spanish names and others Náhuatl names.

Published by Salvador94 – Wed, 2011-07-20 21:26 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Emilie:

What you said is very common, the mixture of blood and races was something that was inevitable in the Mexican families. As many others, I do have the same situation in my family, I had a greatgrandfather that was blue eyes and had light hair when he was a child but I discovered that by his mother's side he had some black blood, also his mother had the same color of eyes and white skin but she did have some brothers that were brown skin. By the oher side, there is some part of my family that are not blond but studying their ancestry I could realize that they descended only from Spanish, because there were also Spaniards that came here and didn´t have light hair or eyes because of their Arab blood.

About your question about Juan de la O, in my experience I've found that in some cases the indians and also the Spanish changed their surname that corresponded to them, sometimes because of the surname importance or other times because of a personal situation.

Also there is an Hacienda San Agustín del Vergel in Valparaíso, Zacatecas, maybe there is where your ancestor was from.

Sincerely,
Salvador Agraz.

Comment

Enrique --- thank you for the information on that Hacienda de San Agustin.

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: enrique_agraz94@hotmail.com
> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:26:32 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help translating Marriage of Nicolas Garzia & Maria de San
>
> Hi Emilie:
>
> What you said is very common, the mixture of blood and races was something that was inevitable in the Mexican families. As many others, I do have the same situation in my family, I had a greatgrandfather that was blue eyes and had light hair when he was a child but I discovered that by his mother's side he had some black blood, also his mother had the same color of eyes and white skin but she did have some brothers that were brown skin. By the oher side, there is some part of my family that are not blond but studying their ancestry I could realize that they descended only from Spanish, because there were also Spaniards that came here and didn´t have light hair or eyes because of their Arab blood.
>
> About your question about Juan de la O, in my experience I've found that in some cases the indians and also the Spanish changed their surname that corresponded to them, sometimes because of the surname importance or other times because of a personal situation.
>
> Also there is an Hacienda San Agustín del Vergel in Valparaíso, Zacatecas, maybe there is where your ancestor was from.
>
> Sincerely,
> Salvador Agraz.

Published by Armando – Wed, 2011-07-20 19:00 | Permalink

Comment

Emilie,

Can you give us the link to image you are looking at? As far as the Hacienda
de de Agustín Díaz, only someone that is familiar with that name and which
hacienda he owned would know which one it is.

Armando

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

>
> Yesterday I received help in reading the marriage record for Cayetano
> Garcia whose parents were Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan.
>
> Now I am trying to find records for Nicolas and Maria, and there is more
> than one couple with those names.
>
> The one I was looking at today is the marriage record for a Nicolas Garzia
> and a Maria de San Juan who were married on May 30, 1736 in Colotlan,
> Jalisco (Image 187 and 188). The other couple that I found would have been
> too old to be the parents of Cayetano, I think.
>
> Whoever the scribe was, he used a lot of "shorthand" or abbreviations which
> make it hard for me to understand. I finally figured out the Yo. and Ya.
> and Yos, meant Yndio, Yndia, and Yndios. My husband's family were very
> gueros, light-haired with hazel eyes, so if this couple are his ancestors,
> then they must have "lightened up" through the centuries through
> intermarriage with only espanoles. All his other ancestors seem to be
> espanoles.
>
> The record says, I think, that Nicolas was an Yndio from the "Vario de
> Tlaxo". Where, what is that? I think that for Maria it says she was from
> Zacatecas, from the "Haza. de Agustin Diaz", a hacienda? Where is that?
>
> Also, the father of Nicolas is listed as Juan de la O and his mother simply
> as Juana Thomasa, and Maria's are listed as Francisco Ca----? (Calisto?) no
> last name, and no surname for Ana Maria, her mother.
>
> If Juan was a "de la O" where does "Garzia" come in?
>
> I thank you in advance for your help.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA

Comment

Armando--- here is the link:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:47:54 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help translating Marriage of Nicolas Garzia & Maria de San Juan
>
> Emilie,
>
> Can you give us the link to image you are looking at? As far as the Hacienda
> de de Agustín Díaz, only someone that is familiar with that name and which
> hacienda he owned would know which one it is.
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yesterday I received help in reading the marriage record for Cayetano
> > Garcia whose parents were Nicolas Garcia and Maria de San Juan.
> >
> > Now I am trying to find records for Nicolas and Maria, and there is more
> > than one couple with those names.
> >
> > The one I was looking at today is the marriage record for a Nicolas Garzia
> > and a Maria de San Juan who were married on May 30, 1736 in Colotlan,
> > Jalisco (Image 187 and 188). The other couple that I found would have been
> > too old to be the parents of Cayetano, I think.
> >
> > Whoever the scribe was, he used a lot of "shorthand" or abbreviations which
> > make it hard for me to understand. I finally figured out the Yo. and Ya.
> > and Yos, meant Yndio, Yndia, and Yndios. My husband's family were very
> > gueros, light-haired with hazel eyes, so if this couple are his ancestors,
> > then they must have "lightened up" through the centuries through
> > intermarriage with only espanoles. All his other ancestors seem to be
> > espanoles.
> >
> > The record says, I think, that Nicolas was an Yndio from the "Vario de
> > Tlaxo". Where, what is that? I think that for Maria it says she was from
> > Zacatecas, from the "Haza. de Agustin Diaz", a hacienda? Where is that?
> >
> > Also, the father of Nicolas is listed as Juan de la O and his mother simply
> > as Juana Thomasa, and Maria's are listed as Francisco Ca----? (Calisto?) no
> > last name, and no surname for Ana Maria, her mother.
> >
> > If Juan was a "de la O" where does "Garzia" come in?
> >
> > I thank you in advance for your help.
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Surprising surname changes with ancestors?

Published by V.Q.C. –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hi, I would like to share a quite funny, or surprising, discovery I have just made.

Comments

Published by k.y.aguilar – Thu, 2011-07-21 15:07 | Permalink

Comment

While I'm looking for a completely different tree. I found the postings helpful.
Katherine Aguilar

Published by arturoramos – Fri, 2011-07-15 06:56 | Permalink

Comment

It was very common and normal for children to take on their mother's surname instead of their father's.

The current naming system in the Spanish speaking world did not come about until the Bourbon reforms.

Because use of maternal and paternal surnames were both very common, the convention was a bit of a compromise combining the use of both surnames.

As Linda mentions, it was often the custom that the oldest daughter was named after the maternal grandmother, including her surname so she would have a surname different from either of her parents.

Published by longsjourney – Tue, 2011-07-12 11:00 | Permalink

Comment

this is one of the mysteries of genealogy that keeps us shaking our heads and
wondering if we have the correct lineage sometimes.. It's especially interesting
when they use a grandmothers name who you have not identified yet and the
grandmother used her grandmothers surname.. and yet we stay with it until we
unravel the mysteries.. the ancestors must have a good chuckle at us sometimes..
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: "sanjeronimolosbarbosa@yahoo.com"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, July 12, 2011 10:33:10 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surprising surname changes with ancestors?

Hi, I would like to share a quite funny, or surprising, discovery I have just
made. On the marriage act of my third great-great grandfathers José Gerardo
Tapia and María Josefa Gímenez on July 15, 1815; there was quite a tornado of
changes in their surnames.

José Gerardo Tapia, a mulato from Aguacaliente, Cocula; was the legitimate son
of José Antonio Placido Rodríguez and María Mauricia Tapia. So, his real name
would have been José Gerardo Rodríguez Tapia.

But I am certain that he his my great-great grandfather Gregorio Tapia's
paternal grandfather because family testimonies state that Gregorio was very
much dark-skinned. So it might have been that José Gerardo changed his surname
to Tapia for reasons yet unknown.

Second surname change is of his bride and then after wife María Josefa Gímenez,
who was stated as the an Amerindian laborer woman of La Sauceda, the legitimate
daughter of José Leonisio Gutiérrez and María Magsima (or Maxima) Ruelas. So her
real name would have been María Josefa Gutiérrez Ruelas.

In the baptism of one of their sons Seberiano Tapia Villegas, Josefa's surname
is changed as Villegas Jímenez, as it is stated that Seberiano's maternal
grandparents were León Villegas and Macima (again, Maxima) Jímenez. So,
Seberiano Tapia Villegas (a lobo or zambo, according to the cuadro de castas)
son of Gerardo and Josefa, was if the surnames were actually authentic:
Seberiano Rodríguez Gutiérrez.    -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List

To post, send email to:
general(at)nuestrosranchos.org

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Published by Angelina Markle – Tue, 2011-07-12 11:00 | Permalink

Comment

yes .... these surname changes were very common - there were no hard set
rules with surnames until more recent times, especially with the non
Europeans ... just be thankful that you seem to be able to make the
connections - it isn't always obvious.

-Angelina-

Comment

@Angelina, I am really thankful, I believed God helped me because this would have been a hard research if I didn't take a look at this marriage. This marriage was indexed with a different source film number, so I had a harder time looking for it in another batch. Thank you for your comment :)

A. de Castro

@Longsjourney, that is true and I agree with you about ancestors chuckling at the researches. Thank you for your comment :)

Published by V.Q.C. – Tue, 2011-07-12 10:49 | Permalink

Comment

Gerardo's sister was Ynes Rodríguez Tapia and she did have the correct surname. It could of been that Gerardo was mad at his father or something like that. May they rest in peace.

A. de Castro

Comment

I am impressed! How did you go about to e-mail this Link?/

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
sanjeronimolosbarbosa@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 10:42 AM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Extra information

This is the link to their marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
h.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.1.i/dgs%3A004721188.004721188_00101

And here is the link to Seberiano's baptism
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
h.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.1.i/dgs%3A004741332.004741332_00050

A. de Castro

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