Nuestros Ranchos Site

Hi, I have the same problem. My paternal line lived on/near the Hacienda Trujillo, just west of Fresnillo. The Online Family Search church records go no older than about 1858. My father and step mother lived in the area and they were 'unofficially' told church records before 1860ish were destroyed in the past during the Revolution. I have not been able to confirm this information. I was going to reach out to one of the LDS Family History Centers and inquire as they could have more information about the status of records from before 1860.

When asking for help, it is important to provide as much information as you can . You should add midddle names and any padrinos that you have found in the documents that you have already combed through. Another thing would be to write the different variations of Rubalcava that you have used in your search since there are many abbreviations for this name. The more information that you can provide, the easier it is for someone to pick up the search where you left off.

I found a record with Francisco using Xavier as a middle name. I can’t name how many variations of abbreviations of the Rubalcava I have seen as after a few minutes I can think of another one. Some of the abbreviations include different variations of Gonzalez along with Rubalcava.

It would also be helpful to know the names of the children that you have already found. Providing more specific dates also helps, especially the ages of the youngest child you have found along with the oldest child.

Francisco Xavier Gonzalez de Rubalcava was baptized on 23/October / 1707, in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, parents Miguel Gonzalez de Rubalcava and Maria Fernández de Rueda. This Francisco Xavier Gonzalez de Rubalcava would have born too late to have children in 1715.

Looking at the dates and location leads me to believe that it is a strong possibility that your Francisco Xabier Gonzalez de Rubalcava is the same person of that name that is the son of Fulgencio González de Rubalcava and Maria Laris that has children with Estefania Alcala.

Rick A. Ricci

1). Lazaro Rodríguez + Ynes Chavez

2). Juan Rodríguez (bap.23Feb 1707) + Andrea Lopes

3).Juan Antonio Bricio Rodriguez + Ana Gregoria Estrada

4). Jose Miguel Rodriguez + Maria Antonia Lopez

5). Juan Ramon Rodriguez + Maria Vicenta Ximenez

6). Maria Antonia Rodriguez + Jesus Rubalcava

7). Maria Carmen Ruvalcava + Terezo Prieto

8). Gerardo Rubalcava y Prieto + Remedios Juarez

9). George J. Prieto y Juarez + Maria Mendez

10). Valerie Prieto y Mendez

Ana Gregoria de Estrada is the daughter of Francisco (?) Estrada and Maria Josepha Prieto. Not sure if the first name is Francisco.

Rick A. Ricci

Valerie

The two in the subject line are my 5th great grandparents.

There is a discrepancy which I would like to know if you can clear up. One of their children was Jose Miguel Rodriguez de Estrada and the Rodriguez patronym carried on through the next generations until my grandfather, Jose Pedro Rodriguez, and then to my mother who also carried the Rodriguez name.

Do you have any information about Juan Antonio Bricio Rodriguez; whether Bricio was his paternal last name; where he was born; who are his ancestors.

Thanks.

Charles Clark
cclarklaw807@pacbell.net

Thank you for all the information, I had hit a brick wall and couldn't go further into the Rubalcava line. I still learning how to use your website but look forward to learning more and more.

1.) Antonio de Miramontes and Maria de Esquibel

2.) Isabel de Miramontes and Andres Martinez Correa and
3.) Francisco Antonio Correa and Maria Sandoval de Guzman
4.) Baltazar de los Relles Correa and Magdalena D’Avila Salcedo
5.) Jose Felipe de Santiago Correa and Rosa Castañeda Delgado
6.) Jph. Ma. Desciderio Correa and Ma. Quirina Ximenez

Rick A. Ricci

Deciderio Correa is the son of Felipe De Santiago Correa D’Avila and Rosa Castañeda Delgado. Quirina is the daughter of Jose Laureano Ximenez and Maria Guadalupe Chavez.

Deciderio’s whole name Is José María Desiderio Correa Castañeda.

Quirina’s whole name is Maria Quirina Ximenez de Chavez.

Deciderio and Quirina were married on 6 Sep 1826.

I have much more information on their ancestry but it is almost 2:00 in the morning so I will leave that for another day.

I am distantly related to them thorough my Ruiz De Esparza ancestry. Deciderio Correa descends from Lope Ruiz De Esparza.

Rick A. Ricci

.
I have not been able to find Blas Sanchez parents but do have 10 children for them.
If you click on a name it will give you whatever information I have on that person..

https://wc.rootsweb.com/trees/618307/I102338/blasjose-sanchez/registry

I hope this may give you a bit more information.
Decideria is 5th cousin 7 time removed from my Father Chet Castanon

Erlinda Castanon-Long

Celso Martinez is the son of Toribio Martinez and Maria Dolores Gonzalez

Toribio is the son of Avelino Martinez and Martina Cabrera

Ma. Dolores Gonzalez is the daughter of Francisco Gonzalez and Maria López

Ildefonsa Franco is the daughter of Cecilio Franco and Maria de Jesus Viramontes

Here is the marriage record of Cecilio Franco and Maria de Jesus Viramontes

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6WV-RD7

Rick A. Ricci

Buenas tardes,

A mi también me interesa esa área de Tepic y Compostela. Estoy investigando sobre algunas familias antiguas de la zona como los Jácome, Tovar, Muñiz de Velasco, López-Portillo, etc. Por ahora no he podido pasar con los Jácome más allá de Antonio Jácome de Sandoval, alférez real de Santiago de Compostela, que fundó capilla con enterramiento en la parroquia de Santiago en 1656 junto a su esposa Agustina de Tovar, de quien tampoco tengo información. Su hijo Pedro Jácome de Tovar casó con Regina López-Portillo y Galindo y tuvieron amplia descendencia en Guadalajara, que en posteriores generaciones enlazarían con los Muñiz de Velasco, del mismo origen pero con escasa documentación. En fin, espero que nuestros intereses se encuentren en esta búsqueda de información. También tengo interés en el área minera de la sierra (Amatlán de Jora, etcétera), por si coincidimos.

Saludos.

In the Obispado de Michoacan records, there are various examples where you can see that the scribes actually listed where in Africa the bride/groom were traffic'd from. For example:
Matrimonial Information for Diego Martin (Slave of D. Jose de Alcocer) and Maria de la Cruz - San Miguel el Grande (August 18, 1673)

In this case, they list the groom as "de nascion Angola".

An even earlier example here:

Matrimonial Information for Juan Serna (Slave of Alonso de Sierra) y Maria - Silao, GTO (April 1, 1634)

The groom was also listed as originating from Angola.

However, it's worth pointing out that the slaves were probably traded/sold in Angola, but may have come from a different African point of origin. Once on Mexican shores, the scribes probably just noted they came from Angola, not bothering to find out what true African nation they were enslaved from originally.

Just a side note regarding the word "Mulato" is that many priests used Mulato for Mestizo, I've seen this in Zacatecas/Durango, I'm not sure what is the explanation other than they simply misused the term, thus keep in mind that that could also be a possibility.

The earlier records of Nombre de Dios Durango, practically borderline with Zacatecas, mentions quite a few Africans, I'm pretty sure the mining plays a role in it.

I'm curious about this as well. My ancestors come from Sombrerete

I notice that too, for now I can only think of clicking on any of the indexed person in the bottom on the "image index tab" and it will highlight only that person allowing you to see the rest of the image.

Hopefully they implement a switch for ease of viewing. (unless there is one already, haven't check thoroughly.

My wife descends from Jose Vicente Gascon and Mariana Sánchez who were married on 13/ May /1765 in San Diego de Alejandría, Jalisco. She descends from their son Jose Antonio Gascon.

Rick A. Ricci

Alfonso Reynoso Rabago

Es un apellido frecuente en la Sierra de Francia (en España). Hay controversia si la Sierra de Francia, en España, fue habitada por campesinos franceses desde los siglos XI, XII y XIII como medio de contención de los moros o como parte de la lucha por echarlos fuera de ese país. Según otras fuentes se llamó Sierra de Francia desde mucho antes. Hay información sobre estos asuntos en:

Pérez Casado, Ángel y Encinas Martín, Alfredo (2003). Peña de Francia: historia, arte, entorno. Salamanca: Editorial San Esteban.
Colunga, Alberto (1990). Santuario de la Peña de Francia: historia. Salamanca: Editorial San Esteban.

Que se puede consultar desde Gooogle Books.

Encontramos Gascón en Los Altos de Jalisco desde épocas remotas pues al parecer campesinos de la Sierra de Francia se establecieron en Los Altos de Jalisco y, de ahí, la creencia de muchos alteños que tienen origen francés. Hay un artículo que quizá te pueda mandar

Olivos Santoyo, Nicolás; Cuadriello Olivos, Hadlyyn “La etnografía: el descubrimiento de muchos méxicos profundos. Entrevista a Andrés Fábregas Puig”. Andamios. Revista de Investigación Social, vol. 9, núm. 19, mayo-agosto, 2012, pp. 161-196.

Estimado Enrique,

Si los Rizo son italiano pero no he tocado ese tema ni su genealogia, pero si conozco algunos que saben de esa familia. Sobre los Gascon,
puede ser frances o vasco, navarro, aragones o catalan. Ya que hubo mucho mezcla de frances y de esa area de la peninsula.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Welcome!

I share a number of those locations-- Ciénega de Mata, Aguascalientes, Pinos, and Tlazazalca.

We can't wait to hear more from you!

R

Good reading, I have found out a lot about my family. Last names changed but my grandfather and family had no clue. One great aunt (age 14) was raped by her half brother in front of my grandmother and had a child but no ones knows what happened to the child. Same aunt left with her husband and went with my great grandfather. Even now there is a lot of scandalous things that occur in the family, father raping daughter, uncle had children with niece. I had never heard of the past stories until I started working on the family tree and my mom and grandmother actually spoke of it. The world does not change, we had crazy things happening back then and still happening now. We all know about it but no one speaks of it.

Alicia,

Re skeletons in the family closet: back in the 1980s when my mother and all her siblings were still alive, I found my mother and her only sister Emilia reluctant to tell me how one of their cousins was related to them---whose daughter was she. My mother and my aunt looked at each other as if to say, "should we tell her?". It was like pulling hen's teeth at first but I finally got it out of them that this cousin's mother was the daughter of a mistress of my great-grandfather. Now my mother and all her siblings are gone, except for Aunt Emilia, and she is spilling all the beans, no holds barred anymore. It is almost with glee, since everyone else is gone, that she is telling where all the bodies are buried. Also, all my research has uncovered many more "secrets".

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:27 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy

Jonathan,

What a great question to ask the group............I have enjoyed reading everyone's postings and the various reasons for beginning to do Genealogical research and the reasons for continuing to do research.

Thanks everyone for sharing so openly and honestly, it makes for a great book on Genealogy.

Now another question, is anyone in your family offended because you do family research and with the findings??
Meaning dark skeleton's in the family closet that may or may not have been intentional findings.

Thanks again to everyone, great reading.
Alicia

Oh, yes! One of my tias was highly insulted when I revealed that my
grandfather was a child whose father was not on his birth record. She
very emphatically told her sisters that it was NOT true.

Then, I just recently learned that this same grandfather was not the
eldest in his family as I'd always been told. I found information
(and on the new Family History pilot site, hurray!) that showed his
brother was his elder by 3 years. THAT record was another "no father
listed." :( Pobre visabuela mia. Marge:)

On Feb 22, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Jonathan,

What a great question to ask the group............I have enjoyed
reading everyone's postings and the various reasons for beginning to
do Genealogical research and the reasons for continuing to do research.

Thanks everyone for sharing so openly and honestly, it makes for a
great book on Genealogy.

Now another question, is anyone in your family offended because you do
family research and with the findings??
Meaning dark skeleton's in the family closet that may or may not have
been intentional findings.

Thanks again to everyone, great reading.
Alicia

No apology needed. I would think that anyone honestly researching genealogy would expect to find such things. As of now, I've only researched a couple of years, 1856-58, in Aguas, Aguas, on the pilot site, and I'll admit that at first I was surprised, but now I'm mostly intrigued at how many "libro recervado", "no se dice", and "N." for last name entries there are. Recently, I asked the group if anyone knew how to access such "libro recervado" information and received no response. With so many entries, I can't believe that no one within our group has family members hidden away in a "libro recervado". I'd love to know. These mysteries make genealogy all the more interesting! Alice BB
--- rricci@lausd.net wrote:

From: "Ricci, Richard"
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:35:38 -0800

I am sorry if I offended anyone with my response. I did not mean to offend anyone with these details. I have been wrestling with disclosing these details and being completely honest with the people who ask me questions about their family. By partially disclosing this way I guess I am testing the waters as to whether or not I should have full disclosure.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Sun 2/22/2009 8:31 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy

Dear Alicia,

How do i answer your question regarding skeletons?
Let me start by saying that one of the reasons that Jaime Holcombe was such a great genealogist, besides his work ethic and his meticulous attention to detail, was his ability to work through, discover and report the skeletons that he came across. He did not find all of them, but he reported the ones he did find.
In the valle de guadalupe we have have had some excellent genealogist that have gained some recognition for their work, I am not embarassed to say that I am one of them. I am embarassed about the next part. For such a small town with so many genealogist gaining some fame, there is a lack of truthful reportimg in some of the genealogies. MMy tio doctor Rito Romo never published his writings because he kept putting it off as he wrestled with this queston, His wife, my aunt, was afraid that he would reveal famliy secrets. A book was recently published by a genealogist from the Valle that every one praises (except for typograhical eroors, picture captions naming the wrong person) that leaves out the genelogy in his own family because of these skeletons. He did not put in print details that led to the killing of his father or his wifes parents data . Another genealogist recently told me he was going to write a big book on the town. Will he include the incest that resulted in chil
dren growing up to be upstanding citizens in the community that probably don't want to know that their biological grand father was their mother's maternal uncle.
What about that great uncle out on the ranch, his wife is really his oldest daughter, His first wife died when his daughter was young. The oldest took on the cares of raising her siblings and performing other wifely duties adding mores children. Who is going to tell them?
How about the biggest financial donator to the town. Who is going to reports that he and, his women claim that he has fathered 35 children in his lifetime . Do they all get listed in the records?
What about the genealogist that should know that his brothers child is not his biological child, A few people know and the genalogist should have figured it out Does he tell his brother or keep quiet? How about the family that keeps repeating that they know that their family name was changed from its original? Do you tell them the real reason why? When these people are second and third cousins do you write anything down?
How about the family that hides other secrets ?
How about the genealogist that had a father that was the result of an affair between a fortyish widow and a teenager. The mother died soon after and the child was raised by his aunt
I know many more. If I ever write the book about my town I could not do a thorough book
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Alicia Carrillo
Sent: Sun 2/22/2009 3:27 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy

Jonathan,

What a great question to ask the group............I have enjoyed reading everyone's postings and the various reasons for beginning to do Genealogical research and the reasons for continuing to do research.

Thanks everyone for sharing so openly and honestly, it makes for a great book on Genealogy.

Now another question, is anyone in your family offended because you do family research and with the findings??
Meaning dark skeleton's in the family closet that may or may not have been intentional findings.

Thanks again to everyone, great reading.
Alicia

As for me I can say no, not on my Mexican side anyways. I have not been able to find out anything that I did not post initially when I signed up with this group. I am still left with the same information. However on my American side, yes, several family members are not too happy with the skeletons in the closet..But it is what it is. I just want to find out more about my Acatic relatives. There was a great dispute when I was a baby that seperated the family, and it is sad, because I still know little about my extended family other than my fathers brothers and sisters. Even that is not great. But I will keep trying.
Cindy Gutierrez

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:27:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy

Jonathan,

What a great question to ask the group............I have enjoyed reading everyone's postings and the various reasons for beginning to do Genealogical research and the reasons for continuing to do research.

Thanks everyone for sharing so openly and honestly, it makes for a great book on Genealogy.

Now another question, is anyone in your family offended because you do family research and with the findings??
Meaning dark skeleton's in the family closet that may or may not have been intentional findings.

Thanks again to everyone, great reading.
Alicia

I must say I have enjoyed everyone's responses. I myself started nearly 20 years ago. It was something my mother and I had always talked about, but I ended up taking the plunge and have never stopped....its addicting....its like finding buried treasure. I have always had a passion for history and archaeology and even though I never majored in archaeology, I love digging for the truth.

When I first started I was looking for my San Juan Capistrano, California ancestors. Well, I found them, and that my Californio ancestors traveled with Anza to San Francisco and settled in Santa Clara County.....I have roots in San Diego, San Juan Capistrano, San Gabriel Valley, Santa Clara County and a Spanish land grant in Galt, CA with a city park named after my ancestors, Chabolla.

My Los Altos ancestors are many. My fathers family came from Aguascalientes and settled in the San Gabriel Valley of California....many other Aguascalientes families did as well, not just mine......

Since joining this group I have found more cousins, in fact one cousin I went to high school with and reunited with him two years ago. Little did I know that my Zacatecas ancestors where his too.

Genealogy for me gives me a sense of who I am, and I'm proud of that. No one can ever take that away from me. Reading all the books about the plagues through the centuries, I am always in awe that my blood line was strong enough to carry on and conquer adversity.

I think we should all take pride in what we are doing. We should all give ourselves a pat on the back.

Rose Gonzales-Hardy
Fresno, CA

Alicia,
That is an interesting question. Fortunately, I have had no such reaction. I
find that my family members are either very interested and amazed at the
info I've found or take absolutely no interest in it. However, I haven't
uncovered any "skeletons" yet, at least none that weren't already partially
known.

-Angelina-

In general, from my own experience reading through the Tlaltenango films, I've seen far more people classified as mulatos libres than esclavos. But they do exist.

Depending upon what year it was corresponding to the record you submitted, the Balthazar Correa who is named might very well be my Grandmother's first husband's Great Great Grandfather whose name was Miguel Castañeda Correa. Balthazar de los Reyes Correa was married to Maria Magdalena de Avila in Tlaltenango in 1737. I made the following note taken from a baptism where they are referred to as a couple: "Don Baltazar Correa and his wife Doña Maria Magdalena de Avila are named in the baptism of their grandson Lugardo Gonzalez Correa in Tapias, Zacatecas, close to Atolinga, Zacatecas" . Regardless if this is the same Balthazar Correa, slavery as unfortunate as it may be was not uncommon in the region. You'll find many of us share ancestors in the Tlaltenango region who were slaveowners. And you'll also find many who will trace their roots to slaves and thus are part of our heritage.

Other references to slaves are found in many of the older Tlaltenango census lists as well.

The site is up and running. If it asks you to sign in, userid and password shown in the initial note work.

The trick is to ensure you are using MS Internet Explorer (Edge won't work) and you must have MS Silverlight to actually view the document. My current machine does not work, but I still have an older machine on windows 7 with both explorer and silverlight. This has allowed me to view images. I viewed one this evening.

You can also try writing to folks that manage the archives and ask if they will pull a specific document for you. They did it for me once, but they didn't respond to subsequent requests.

FYI... I tried to find the document referenced under the topic Compraventa de Esclavo. The system only allowed me to view the first page of results. Not sure why. I also tried to find a record for Fernando de la Campa y Coz and didn't find anything under Contratantes. I would have been happy to pull it for you if I could have found it.

It was down for months, I contacted them via facebook and email and said that the servers was turned off, and that they didn't know if it was going to be back up soon.
I checked two weeks ago, and it was working again.

This time I've been saving as many documents as possible for fear it might be down in the future again.

I too have had that problem and posted on it years ago...Hope someone has an answer to your question!

Regards
Denise

Yea that site hasn't worked for me for like 2 years. I asked the same question on here and no one answered. Good luck!

I am also have a brick wall on Francisco Xavier Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes in the early 1700s that was married to Juana Dias Montanes de Sandi. Francisco and Juana left many descendants in Theocaltiche, Jalisco. I have a daughter of his marrying in 1741 in Theocaltiche Jalisco. I also have them baptizing a child in 1741 in Aguascalientes and another child in Theocaltiche in 1748.

Rick A. Ricci

I am also have a brick wall on Francisco Xavier Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes in the early 1700s that was married to Juana Dias Montanes de Sandi. Francisco and Juana left many descendants in Theocaltiche, Jalisco. I have a daughter of his marrying in 1741 in Theocaltiche Jalisco.

Rick A. Ricci

I am also have a brick wall on Francisco Xavier Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes in the early 1700s that was married to Juana Dias Montanes de Sandi. Francisco and Juana left many descendants in Theocaltiche, Jalisco. I have a daughter of his marrying in 1741 in Theocaltiche Jalisco.

Rick A. Ricci

I am looking for the parents of Joaquin Munoz de la Barba who is married to Gerónima de Escoto y Tovar. Gerónima was also known as Jeronima De Rodas Ortiz. Joaquín was born circa 1670 and Jeronima was born circa 1672. Jeronima Is the daughter of Ygnacio Escotto and Beatriz.
I descend from Joaquin and Jeronima. They lived in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

Thank you

Rick A. Ricci

I was wondering if is the same Maria Munoz de Barba that I have on my tree married to a Jose Ignacio Reyes .?

Muchísimas gracias. Este descubrimiento me va ayudar por años. Hasta encontré un mapa de los ranchos de mis antepasados. Se lo agradezco mucho.

Andelmo