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Testamento de Juan de las Ruelas

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Hola a todos:

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Beatriz de las Ruelas

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Una hipótesis que se maneja, aunque sería difícil de probar, es que esta Beatriz de las Ruelas sería la esposa de Santos Rojo, ambos pobladores de Saltillo a finales del siglo XVI y principios del XVII (por lo menos ella, que enviudó).

Ruelas y de paso Menchaca

Comment

Hola Menchaca:

Pues es posible, dado que Don Juan dejó sus bienes en Zacatecas, unas casas arrendadas y no he visto registros de personas con apellido Ruelas posteriormente.

La familia Menchaca es de las primeras de Querétaro y existe hasta la fecha. Su hacienda ya fue fraccionada por la misma familia.

Saludos

Marcelina

Juan de las Ruelas

Comment

Marcelina

i don't know who Juan de las Ruelas is. Is he related to the Sotomayor family? do you have the link to his testamento?

Danny C. Alonso

Familia Ruelas

Comment

Hola Danny:

Realmente no se, no tengo libros sobre Zacatecas, pero puede estar relacionado con la familia Sotomayor. Lo expuse como contribución porque alguien podría saberlo.

Saludos

Marcelina

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hello all, I found out that this alteno family who settled in Penjamo, Gto. originally came from Queretaro, MX. Mariano Gonzalez Leal doesnt mention this not sure why.

Comments

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

I recently learned that I descend from Alonso Galván de Rojas through Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas the wife of Juan de Villalobos Tiscareño. I found a website that mentions the origins of the Galván de Rojas.

Hace poco aprendí que soy descendiente de Alonso Galván de Rojas por medio de Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas la esposa de Juan de Villalobos Tiscareño. Encontré una página que habla de el origen del los Galván de Rojas.

Hernando Galván, criador de ganado de ovejas, nació en Galicia hacia 1550. Llegó a la Nueva España hacia 1570.

Antes de casarse, tuvo por hijo, en una mujer soltera, a Hernando Galván (c.1573, que tuvo por hijo a Francisco el 29-VIII-1594; a su padre se le llama "Hernando Galván, el mozo"; la madrina fue la hija de Juan Rico, la menor: quizá Juana; Hernán Galván, el mozo, casó con Francisca el 12-IX-1605 (segundas nupcias).
Hernando Galván casó con una hija de Juan Rico de Rojas (Francisca de Espíndola; ver Rico de Rojas). Tuvieron por hijos a 1) Constanza de Rojas (c.1577), que caso con Gonzalo Zamorano el 25-VIII-1597, 2) Catalina de Espíndola (c.1579), que casó con Diego Ramírez Coy, 3) Juan Galván (c.1582), que casó con doña Magdalena de Castro, 4) Alonso Galván (c.1584; Alonso Galván y Ana López se casaron y velaron el 4-I-1608), 5) Hernando, 6) Cristóbal, 7) Diego (30-XI-1593, que debió morir de niño), 8) Miguel Galván (13-V-1596, aunque su partida está después de la del 15-II-1612; padrinos: Diego Ramírez y su mujer; fue padrino el 16-XII-1616 de Magdalena, hija de Gabriel Rico y María de Nava, y el 4-IX-1629 de Diego, hijo de Manuel de Guevara e Isabel Picón), y 9) doña Francisca de Espíndola, que casó con don José de Gaona y Aguirre, antes de 1629. A doña Francisca le llaman "doña Francisca Galvana" en la partida del 13-XI-1630. A Catalina de Espínola (quizá hija de Diego Ramírez Coy y Catalina de Espíndola, nacida el 4-IX-1599), mujer de Jorge de Villafuerte, también se le llama "Catalina Rico" (cfr. 20-V-1629 y 20-III-1632). Hernán Galván testó el 31-XII-1607 con codicilo del 9-I-1608.
http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/galvan.html

If Alonso the son of Hernando married Ana López in 1608 who is the Alonso that fathers Juan b. 1612 and Alonso II b. 1622 with Juana Salcedo? Is it the same person and is Ana López and Juana Salcedo the same person or did Ana López die and therefore Alonso married Juana Salcedo? If Juan was baptized in 1612 then his father Alonso was born before 1600, circa 1590. An Alonso mentioned being born about that time is the son of Hernando and Francisca that married Ana López.

There is however another Alonso from the same time period - Alonso Galván y su mujer tuvieron por hijo a Hernando el 24-XI-1603; el padrino fue su tío, Hernando Galván. Alonso era hijo de Tomás de Castelolón y Catalina Galván.

That Alonso has to have been born at least 16 years or more prior to 1603. That means before 1587. His mother Catalina Galván had to have been born on or before 1571 which is one year after Hernando Galván arrived in México from Spain. Was she a sister of Hernando? If so that Alonso doesn't descend from Juan Rico de Rojas unless Tomás de Castelolón does.

Can anyone help in finding the missing info?

Quedo corto de tiempo para traducirlo a español. Si le interesa a alguien una traducción hazme saber y lo haré en cuanto me desocupo.

Un saludo cordial, Armando

This is in response to -

Familia Galvan de Rojas

By mendezdelcamino - Posted on 20 August 2009

Hello all, I found out that this alteno family who settled in Penjamo, Gto. originally came from Queretaro, MX. Mariano Gonzalez Leal doesnt mention this not sure why.

I found don Alonso Galvan de Rojas II baptism

18 Nov 1622 in Queretaro, Queretaro, MX

his brother Juan Galvan de Rojas 5 jan 1612 also in Queretaro.
Have not found the 3rd brother Gonzalez Leal mentions, Pedro Galvan de Rojas.

This family eventually made it to Los altos. Alonso II married twice, Luisa Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, aka Luisa de Rodas. and then to Ana Lopez y Ramirez aka, Ana de la Rivera, Ana de Liebano, Ana Rubio, Ana.

-Daniel
Armando

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Si estos Galvan son la misma familia, la problema es que hay varios Hernando y varios
Alonso Galvan. Se necesita mas comprobacion a conectar el alteno. Soy experto en las
lineas altenas y genealogias nobilarias de Mexico los que no era titulado y los que si eran
titulado. Me encanta el estudio de esas familias nobles de la Ciudad de Mexico, ya que
mis Perez de Camino era parte de esa oligarquia. Para comprender y estudiar esa nobleza
mexicana se necesita y requiere estudiar toda la nobleza mexicana ya que si alguien conecta
con ellos encontrara que se casaban como familias entre los Perez de Camino, Martinez del Rio,
Leonel-Gomez de Cervantes, Romero de Terreros, Rincon Gallardo, etc algunas familias que honoro
y amo bastante por su servicio y amistad.

Pues ya me diste la ultima pista sobre Juan de Villalobos Tiscareno, quien era hijo
de 27 de agosto de 1690 en la villa de Aguascalientes, siendo hijo de don Tomas de Villalobos
y Francisca de Tiscareno (o Tiscareno de Molina) quienes casaron el 26 abril de 1689 cuyos
padres eran Salvador de Villalobos, Francisca Lopez de la Cruz (Martin del Campo) y
el capitan Juan Tiscareno de Molina e Isabel Romo de Vivar. Ojala esto ayuda.

Una cosa de precaucion no se debe confundir hay dos Juan de Villalobos quien caso a
Petronila Galvan de Rojas. Hay dos el primer tuvo hijos alreadores de 1747 cuyo fecha
fue el bautizo de Miguel Geronimo de Villalobos fechado 12 de noviembre de 1747 en
Santa Maria de los Lagos. (Pienso que este era tu linea?) el segundo era Juan de Villalobos
Tiscareno quien caso a Antonia Petronila Galvan de Rojas quienes tuvieron sus hijos alreadores
de los 1720s empezando Juan Manuel bautizado 24 de junio de 1725 en Lagos. La localidad,
nombres pudiese decir que eran los mismos, pero no pienso es el caso con estos. No hay comprobacion
que eran los mismos.

Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:40:03 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
>
> I recently learned that I descend from Alonso Galván de Rojas through Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas the wife of Juan de Villalobos Tiscareño. I found a website that mentions the origins of the Galván de Rojas.
>
> Hace poco aprendí que soy descendiente de Alonso Galván de Rojas por medio de Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas la esposa de Juan de Villalobos Tiscareño. Encontré una página que habla de el origen del los Galván de Rojas.
>
> Hernando Galván, criador de ganado de ovejas, nació en Galicia hacia 1550. Llegó a la Nueva España hacia 1570.
>
> Antes de casarse, tuvo por hijo, en una mujer soltera, a Hernando Galván (c.1573, que tuvo por hijo a Francisco el 29-VIII-1594; a su padre se le llama "Hernando Galván, el mozo"; la madrina fue la hija de Juan Rico, la menor: quizá Juana; Hernán Galván, el mozo, casó con Francisca el 12-IX-1605 (segundas nupcias).
> Hernando Galván casó con una hija de Juan Rico de Rojas (Francisca de Espíndola; ver Rico de Rojas). Tuvieron por hijos a 1) Constanza de Rojas (c.1577), que caso con Gonzalo Zamorano el 25-VIII-1597, 2) Catalina de Espíndola (c.1579), que casó con Diego Ramírez Coy, 3) Juan Galván (c.1582), que casó con doña Magdalena de Castro, 4) Alonso Galván (c.1584; Alonso Galván y Ana López se casaron y velaron el 4-I-1608), 5) Hernando, 6) Cristóbal, 7) Diego (30-XI-1593, que debió morir de niño), 8) Miguel Galván (13-V-1596, aunque su partida está después de la del 15-II-1612; padrinos: Diego Ramírez y su mujer; fue padrino el 16-XII-1616 de Magdalena, hija de Gabriel Rico y María de Nava, y el 4-IX-1629 de Diego, hijo de Manuel de Guevara e Isabel Picón), y 9) doña Francisca de Espíndola, que casó con don José de Gaona y Aguirre, antes de 1629. A doña Francisca le llaman "doña Francisca Galvana" en la partida del 13-XI-1630. A Catalina de Espínola (quizá
> hija de Diego Ramírez Coy y Catalina de Espíndola, nacida el 4-IX-1599), mujer de Jorge de Villafuerte, también se le llama "Catalina Rico" (cfr. 20-V-1629 y 20-III-1632). Hernán Galván testó el 31-XII-1607 con codicilo del 9-I-1608.
> http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/galvan.html
>
> If Alonso the son of Hernando married Ana López in 1608 who is the Alonso that fathers Juan b. 1612 and Alonso II b. 1622 with Juana Salcedo? Is it the same person and is Ana López and Juana Salcedo the same person or did Ana López die and therefore Alonso married Juana Salcedo? If Juan was baptized in 1612 then his father Alonso was born before 1600, circa 1590. An Alonso mentioned being born about that time is the son of Hernando and Francisca that married Ana López.
>
> There is however another Alonso from the same time period - Alonso Galván y su mujer tuvieron por hijo a Hernando el 24-XI-1603; el padrino fue su tío, Hernando Galván. Alonso era hijo de Tomás de Castelolón y Catalina Galván.
>
> That Alonso has to have been born at least 16 years or more prior to 1603. That means before 1587. His mother Catalina Galván had to have been born on or before 1571 which is one year after Hernando Galván arrived in México from Spain. Was she a sister of Hernando? If so that Alonso doesn't descend from Juan Rico de Rojas unless Tomás de Castelolón does.
>
> Can anyone help in finding the missing info?
>
> Quedo corto de tiempo para traducirlo a español. Si le interesa a alguien una traducción hazme saber y lo haré en cuanto me desocupo.
>
> Un saludo cordial, Armando
>
>
> This is in response to -
>
> Familia Galvan de Rojas
>
> By mendezdelcamino - Posted on 20 August 2009
>
> Hello all, I found out that this alteno family who settled in Penjamo, Gto. originally came from Queretaro, MX. Mariano Gonzalez Leal doesnt mention this not sure why.
>
> I found don Alonso Galvan de Rojas II baptism
>
> 18 Nov 1622 in Queretaro, Queretaro, MX
>
> his brother Juan Galvan de Rojas 5 jan 1612 also in Queretaro.
> Have not found the 3rd brother Gonzalez Leal mentions, Pedro Galvan de Rojas.
>
> This family eventually made it to Los altos. Alonso II married twice, Luisa Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, aka Luisa de Rodas. and then to Ana Lopez y Ramirez aka, Ana de la Rivera, Ana de Liebano, Ana Rubio, Ana.
>
> -Daniel
> Armando

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Ya se que los Villalobos no partenece al titulo del foro pero ya quemencionaste
parece que si los dos Juan y dos Petronila o Petra o Petrona son los mismos a
lo menos parece una vez que parece como Antonia Petrona en los 1740s
y dudo que Juan de Villalobos que deberia nacer ca. 1725 tuvo hijos a 14 de
edad. No he encontrado un matrimonio pero si parece que con los mismos.
Pero otra vez sin probacion de documentos es solo fabricacion. Necesitamos encontrar
algun documento para ser seguro en esto.

Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Daniel, todos los bautismos de los hijos de Juan Villalobos y Petra alias
Petrona alias Petronila Galvan transcurren en Lagos entre 1723 y 1744 y son
tan pocos los Villalobos y Galvan que no me cabe duda que son los mismos. El
proceso de eliminación resulta en deducción y no en fabricación. Fabricación
es por ejemplo decir que Tomas Alva Edison es de los Altos por Alva sin
tener comprobación cuando es una zona muy lejana de otro pais de otro idioma
etc o decir que ya había llegado hombres blancos a México antes del siglo
XVI porque Quetzalcoatl era blanco con pelo rubio sin saber porque estaba
pintado así y sin tener evidencias de europeos antes de tal siglo. Entiendo
que es facil de llegar a conclusiones erróneos sin el proceso de eliminación
pero ya que uno elimina todas las posibilidades que sean otra persona queda
muy poca duda. De todas formas ya había pedido copias del bautismo y el
matrimonio de Juan José Villalobos Galván. Tal vez puede confirmar lo que yo
he deducido. Celestino Villalobos era quien primero me dio los nombres de
los padres de Juan como Tomas y Francisca Tiscareño. Tal vez el nos puede
dar más información de como llegó a esa misma conclusión pero por
comunicación que he tenido con el ya se que no lo va a poder hacer en estos
dias.
Pasa lo mismo si haces una busqueda de Pedro Gonzalez y Petra Moreno, los
padres de la novia de un hijo de Juan José Villalobos Galván, y veras que no
siempre llevan los nombres igualitos pero tienen que ser siempre los mismos,
Pedro Gonzalez de Rubalcava y Anna Petra Moreno Gamino.

Armando

2010/10/3 Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino

>
> Ya se que los Villalobos no partenece al titulo del foro pero ya
> quemencionaste
> parece que si los dos Juan y dos Petronila o Petra o Petrona son los mismos
> a
> lo menos parece una vez que parece como Antonia Petrona en los 1740s
> y dudo que Juan de Villalobos que deberia nacer ca. 1725 tuvo hijos a 14 de
> edad. No he encontrado un matrimonio pero si parece que con los mismos.
> Pero otra vez sin probacion de documentos es solo fabricacion. Necesitamos
> encontrar
> algun documento para ser seguro en esto.
>
>
> Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:40:03 -0700
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
> >
> > I recently learned that I descend from Alonso Galván de Rojas through
> Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas the wife of Juan de Villalobos Tiscareño.
> I found a website that mentions the origins of the Galván de Rojas.
> >
> > Hace poco aprendí que soy descendiente de Alonso Galván de Rojas por
> medio de Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas la esposa de Juan de Villalobos
> Tiscareño. Encontré una página que habla de el origen del los Galván de
> Rojas.
> >
> > Hernando Galván, criador de ganado de ovejas, nació en Galicia hacia
> 1550. Llegó a la Nueva España hacia 1570.
> >
> > Antes de casarse, tuvo por hijo, en una mujer soltera, a Hernando Galván
> (c.1573, que tuvo por hijo a Francisco el 29-VIII-1594; a su padre se le
> llama "Hernando Galván, el mozo"; la madrina fue la hija de Juan Rico, la
> menor: quizá Juana; Hernán Galván, el mozo, casó con Francisca el 12-IX-1605
> (segundas nupcias).
> > Hernando Galván casó con una hija de Juan Rico de Rojas (Francisca de
> Espíndola; ver Rico de Rojas). Tuvieron por hijos a 1) Constanza de Rojas
> (c.1577), que caso con Gonzalo Zamorano el 25-VIII-1597, 2) Catalina de
> Espíndola (c.1579), que casó con Diego Ramírez Coy, 3) Juan Galván (c.1582),
> que casó con doña Magdalena de Castro, 4) Alonso Galván (c.1584; Alonso
> Galván y Ana López se casaron y velaron el 4-I-1608), 5) Hernando, 6)
> Cristóbal, 7) Diego (30-XI-1593, que debió morir de niño), 8) Miguel Galván
> (13-V-1596, aunque su partida está después de la del 15-II-1612; padrinos:
> Diego Ramírez y su mujer; fue padrino el 16-XII-1616 de Magdalena, hija de
> Gabriel Rico y María de Nava, y el 4-IX-1629 de Diego, hijo de Manuel de
> Guevara e Isabel Picón), y 9) doña Francisca de Espíndola, que casó con don
> José de Gaona y Aguirre, antes de 1629. A doña Francisca le llaman "doña
> Francisca Galvana" en la partida del 13-XI-1630. A Catalina de Espínola
> (quizá
> > hija de Diego Ramírez Coy y Catalina de Espíndola, nacida el 4-IX-1599),
> mujer de Jorge de Villafuerte, también se le llama "Catalina Rico" (cfr.
> 20-V-1629 y 20-III-1632). Hernán Galván testó el 31-XII-1607 con codicilo
> del 9-I-1608.
> > http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/galvan.html
> >
> > If Alonso the son of Hernando married Ana López in 1608 who is the Alonso
> that fathers Juan b. 1612 and Alonso II b. 1622 with Juana Salcedo? Is it
> the same person and is Ana López and Juana Salcedo the same person or did
> Ana López die and therefore Alonso married Juana Salcedo? If Juan was
> baptized in 1612 then his father Alonso was born before 1600, circa 1590. An
> Alonso mentioned being born about that time is the son of Hernando and
> Francisca that married Ana López.
> >
> > There is however another Alonso from the same time period - Alonso Galván
> y su mujer tuvieron por hijo a Hernando el 24-XI-1603; el padrino fue su
> tío, Hernando Galván. Alonso era hijo de Tomás de Castelolón y Catalina
> Galván.
> >
> > That Alonso has to have been born at least 16 years or more prior to
> 1603. That means before 1587. His mother Catalina Galván had to have been
> born on or before 1571 which is one year after Hernando Galván arrived in
> México from Spain. Was she a sister of Hernando? If so that Alonso doesn't
> descend from Juan Rico de Rojas unless Tomás de Castelolón does.
> >
> > Can anyone help in finding the missing info?
> >
> > Quedo corto de tiempo para traducirlo a español. Si le interesa a alguien
> una traducción hazme saber y lo haré en cuanto me desocupo.
> >
> > Un saludo cordial, Armando
> >
> >
> > This is in response to -
> >
> > Familia Galvan de Rojas
> >
> > By mendezdelcamino - Posted on 20 August 2009
> >
> > Hello all, I found out that this alteno family who settled in Penjamo,
> Gto. originally came from Queretaro, MX. Mariano Gonzalez Leal doesnt
> mention this not sure why.
> >
> > I found don Alonso Galvan de Rojas II baptism
> >
> > 18 Nov 1622 in Queretaro, Queretaro, MX
> >
> > his brother Juan Galvan de Rojas 5 jan 1612 also in Queretaro.
> > Have not found the 3rd brother Gonzalez Leal mentions, Pedro Galvan de
> Rojas.
> >
> > This family eventually made it to Los altos. Alonso II married twice,
> Luisa Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, aka Luisa de Rodas. and then to Ana Lopez y
> Ramirez aka, Ana de la Rivera, Ana de Liebano, Ana Rubio, Ana.
> >
> > -Daniel
> > Armando
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Si estas corecto no es fabricacion es deducion. Es que soy muy cuidado con registros.
Pero si son los mismos. Ademas en 1740s a lo menos parece una vez como Antonia
Petra Galvan. Ya agrege estos datos como la mismas personas.

Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino

> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 22:18:11 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
>
> Daniel, todos los bautismos de los hijos de Juan Villalobos y Petra alias
> Petrona alias Petronila Galvan transcurren en Lagos entre 1723 y 1744 y son
> tan pocos los Villalobos y Galvan que no me cabe duda que son los mismos. El
> proceso de eliminación resulta en deducción y no en fabricación. Fabricación
> es por ejemplo decir que Tomas Alva Edison es de los Altos por Alva sin
> tener comprobación cuando es una zona muy lejana de otro pais de otro idioma
> etc o decir que ya había llegado hombres blancos a México antes del siglo
> XVI porque Quetzalcoatl era blanco con pelo rubio sin saber porque estaba
> pintado así y sin tener evidencias de europeos antes de tal siglo. Entiendo
> que es facil de llegar a conclusiones erróneos sin el proceso de eliminación
> pero ya que uno elimina todas las posibilidades que sean otra persona queda
> muy poca duda. De todas formas ya había pedido copias del bautismo y el
> matrimonio de Juan José Villalobos Galván. Tal vez puede confirmar lo que yo
> he deducido. Celestino Villalobos era quien primero me dio los nombres de
> los padres de Juan como Tomas y Francisca Tiscareño. Tal vez el nos puede
> dar más información de como llegó a esa misma conclusión pero por
> comunicación que he tenido con el ya se que no lo va a poder hacer en estos
> dias.
> Pasa lo mismo si haces una busqueda de Pedro Gonzalez y Petra Moreno, los
> padres de la novia de un hijo de Juan José Villalobos Galván, y veras que no
> siempre llevan los nombres igualitos pero tienen que ser siempre los mismos,
> Pedro Gonzalez de Rubalcava y Anna Petra Moreno Gamino.
>
> Armando
>
> 2010/10/3 Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino
>
> >
> > Ya se que los Villalobos no partenece al titulo del foro pero ya
> > quemencionaste
> > parece que si los dos Juan y dos Petronila o Petra o Petrona son los mismos
> > a
> > lo menos parece una vez que parece como Antonia Petrona en los 1740s
> > y dudo que Juan de Villalobos que deberia nacer ca. 1725 tuvo hijos a 14 de
> > edad. No he encontrado un matrimonio pero si parece que con los mismos.
> > Pero otra vez sin probacion de documentos es solo fabricacion. Necesitamos
> > encontrar
> > algun documento para ser seguro en esto.
> >
> >
> > Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > > Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:40:03 -0700
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
> > >
> > > I recently learned that I descend from Alonso Galván de Rojas through
> > Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas the wife of Juan de Villalobos Tiscareño.
> > I found a website that mentions the origins of the Galván de Rojas.
> > >
> > > Hace poco aprendí que soy descendiente de Alonso Galván de Rojas por
> > medio de Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas la esposa de Juan de Villalobos
> > Tiscareño. Encontré una página que habla de el origen del los Galván de
> > Rojas.
> > >
> > > Hernando Galván, criador de ganado de ovejas, nació en Galicia hacia
> > 1550. Llegó a la Nueva España hacia 1570.
> > >
> > > Antes de casarse, tuvo por hijo, en una mujer soltera, a Hernando Galván
> > (c.1573, que tuvo por hijo a Francisco el 29-VIII-1594; a su padre se le
> > llama "Hernando Galván, el mozo"; la madrina fue la hija de Juan Rico, la
> > menor: quizá Juana; Hernán Galván, el mozo, casó con Francisca el 12-IX-1605
> > (segundas nupcias).
> > > Hernando Galván casó con una hija de Juan Rico de Rojas (Francisca de
> > Espíndola; ver Rico de Rojas). Tuvieron por hijos a 1) Constanza de Rojas
> > (c.1577), que caso con Gonzalo Zamorano el 25-VIII-1597, 2) Catalina de
> > Espíndola (c.1579), que casó con Diego Ramírez Coy, 3) Juan Galván (c.1582),
> > que casó con doña Magdalena de Castro, 4) Alonso Galván (c.1584; Alonso
> > Galván y Ana López se casaron y velaron el 4-I-1608), 5) Hernando, 6)
> > Cristóbal, 7) Diego (30-XI-1593, que debió morir de niño), 8) Miguel Galván
> > (13-V-1596, aunque su partida está después de la del 15-II-1612; padrinos:
> > Diego Ramírez y su mujer; fue padrino el 16-XII-1616 de Magdalena, hija de
> > Gabriel Rico y María de Nava, y el 4-IX-1629 de Diego, hijo de Manuel de
> > Guevara e Isabel Picón), y 9) doña Francisca de Espíndola, que casó con don
> > José de Gaona y Aguirre, antes de 1629. A doña Francisca le llaman "doña
> > Francisca Galvana" en la partida del 13-XI-1630. A Catalina de Espínola
> > (quizá
> > > hija de Diego Ramírez Coy y Catalina de Espíndola, nacida el 4-IX-1599),
> > mujer de Jorge de Villafuerte, también se le llama "Catalina Rico" (cfr.
> > 20-V-1629 y 20-III-1632). Hernán Galván testó el 31-XII-1607 con codicilo
> > del 9-I-1608.
> > > http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/galvan.html
> > >
> > > If Alonso the son of Hernando married Ana López in 1608 who is the Alonso
> > that fathers Juan b. 1612 and Alonso II b. 1622 with Juana Salcedo? Is it
> > the same person and is Ana López and Juana Salcedo the same person or did
> > Ana López die and therefore Alonso married Juana Salcedo? If Juan was
> > baptized in 1612 then his father Alonso was born before 1600, circa 1590. An
> > Alonso mentioned being born about that time is the son of Hernando and
> > Francisca that married Ana López.
> > >
> > > There is however another Alonso from the same time period - Alonso Galván
> > y su mujer tuvieron por hijo a Hernando el 24-XI-1603; el padrino fue su
> > tío, Hernando Galván. Alonso era hijo de Tomás de Castelolón y Catalina
> > Galván.
> > >
> > > That Alonso has to have been born at least 16 years or more prior to
> > 1603. That means before 1587. His mother Catalina Galván had to have been
> > born on or before 1571 which is one year after Hernando Galván arrived in
> > México from Spain. Was she a sister of Hernando? If so that Alonso doesn't
> > descend from Juan Rico de Rojas unless Tomás de Castelolón does.
> > >
> > > Can anyone help in finding the missing info?
> > >
> > > Quedo corto de tiempo para traducirlo a español. Si le interesa a alguien
> > una traducción hazme saber y lo haré en cuanto me desocupo.
> > >
> > > Un saludo cordial, Armando
> > >
> > >
> > > This is in response to -
> > >
> > > Familia Galvan de Rojas
> > >
> > > By mendezdelcamino - Posted on 20 August 2009
> > >
> > > Hello all, I found out that this alteno family who settled in Penjamo,
> > Gto. originally came from Queretaro, MX. Mariano Gonzalez Leal doesnt
> > mention this not sure why.
> > >
> > > I found don Alonso Galvan de Rojas II baptism
> > >
> > > 18 Nov 1622 in Queretaro, Queretaro, MX
> > >
> > > his brother Juan Galvan de Rojas 5 jan 1612 also in Queretaro.
> > > Have not found the 3rd brother Gonzalez Leal mentions, Pedro Galvan de
> > Rojas.
> > >
> > > This family eventually made it to Los altos. Alonso II married twice,
> > Luisa Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, aka Luisa de Rodas. and then to Ana Lopez y
> > Ramirez aka, Ana de la Rivera, Ana de Liebano, Ana Rubio, Ana.
> > >
> > > -Daniel
> > > Armando
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Estoy de acuerdo que hay que tener precaución de no llegar a conclusiones
falsas. Haces bien en ser precavido. Ya que mencionaste a Leonel de
Cervantes en una de las respuestas, en la página de Encarnación de Díaz nos
dice que de el desciende José (Jusepe) Cervantes y de Alva quien se casó con
Josefa Cárdenas padres de Juan de Dios Cervantes Cárdenas bautizado en 1686
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
se casó con María de Avila
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
tuvieron a María Josefa según el matrimonio de 1732 con Antonio de
Abalos
(también es de Avalos y Dávalos)
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
María
Josefa Cervantes Avila, tuvo a Andrés de Abalos Cervantes
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
quien
se casó con Rita Rosalia Esparza Moreno
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
y
tuvieron a Rafael de Abalos Esparza
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
quien
se casó con Malena Nazaria Lozano Reyes
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
y
tuvieron a Juana Dávalos Lozano
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
quien
se casó con Bernardo Villalobos Santoyo, hijo de José María Villalobos
González y María Calista Santoyo Espinoza, quienes tuvieron a mi bisabuela
Hermelinda Villalobos Dávalos
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…

Saludos, Armando

2010/10/3 Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino

>
> Si estas corecto no es fabricacion es deducion. Es que soy muy cuidado con
> registros.
> Pero si son los mismos. Ademas en 1740s a lo menos parece una vez como
> Antonia
> Petra Galvan. Ya agrege estos datos como la mismas personas.
>
>
> Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino
>

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Saludos Daniel:

Ya nos habiamos comunicado en el pasado. Soy Villalobos22. Agradezco la
ayuda que siempre nos prestas en cuestiones dificiles.

Acerca de Juan de Villalobos. Necesito tu ayuda. Mencionas a dos Juan de
Villalobos. Y yo tengo a uno en mi arbol. Donde cae este?

Tengo a Juan como padre de mi abuelo (7 generacion) Bartholome de
Villalobos nacido en 1691 poco antes de la muerte de Juan.
Juan se caso en 1684 con Beatriz Romo de Vivar Tiscareno (nacida 1668 en
Lagos de Moreno) y murio Feb, 1, 1692
Los padres de Beatriz fueron P.O. Romo de Vivar y Lorenza de Tiscareno.
Sabes quien es P.O. o' que nombre significan esas letras? Habias visto a
esta pareja antes?

Creo que tengo la correcta informacion acerca de los padres de Bartholome de
Villalobos (esposo de Maria Gonzalez de Hermosillo) pero que piensas tu?

Bueno Daniel, me gustaria tu opinion. Gracias por cualquier luz que puedas
derramar en esta parejita.

Cordialmente,
Mercedes Gomez Villalobos

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino"
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 12:22 PM
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas

>
> Ya se que los Villalobos no partenece al titulo del foro pero ya
> quemencionaste
> parece que si los dos Juan y dos Petronila o Petra o Petrona son los
> mismos a
> lo menos parece una vez que parece como Antonia Petrona en los 1740s
> y dudo que Juan de Villalobos que deberia nacer ca. 1725 tuvo hijos a 14
> de
> edad. No he encontrado un matrimonio pero si parece que con los mismos.
> Pero otra vez sin probacion de documentos es solo fabricacion. Necesitamos
> encontrar
> algun documento para ser seguro en esto.
>
>
> Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino
>
>
>
>
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:40:03 -0700
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
>>
>> I recently learned that I descend from Alonso Galván de Rojas through
>> Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas the wife of Juan de Villalobos
>> Tiscareño. I found a website that mentions the origins of the Galván de
>> Rojas.
>>
>> Hace poco aprendí que soy descendiente de Alonso Galván de Rojas por
>> medio de Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas la esposa de Juan de
>> Villalobos Tiscareño. Encontré una página que habla de el origen del los
>> Galván de Rojas.
>>
>> Hernando Galván, criador de ganado de ovejas, nació en Galicia hacia
>> 1550. Llegó a la Nueva España hacia 1570.
>>
>> Antes de casarse, tuvo por hijo, en una mujer soltera, a Hernando Galván
>> (c.1573, que tuvo por hijo a Francisco el 29-VIII-1594; a su padre se le
>> llama "Hernando Galván, el mozo"; la madrina fue la hija de Juan Rico, la
>> menor: quizá Juana; Hernán Galván, el mozo, casó con Francisca el
>> 12-IX-1605 (segundas nupcias).
>> Hernando Galván casó con una hija de Juan Rico de Rojas (Francisca de
>> Espíndola; ver Rico de Rojas). Tuvieron por hijos a 1) Constanza de Rojas
>> (c.1577), que caso con Gonzalo Zamorano el 25-VIII-1597, 2) Catalina de
>> Espíndola (c.1579), que casó con Diego Ramírez Coy, 3) Juan Galván
>> (c.1582), que casó con doña Magdalena de Castro, 4) Alonso Galván
>> (c.1584; Alonso Galván y Ana López se casaron y velaron el 4-I-1608), 5)
>> Hernando, 6) Cristóbal, 7) Diego (30-XI-1593, que debió morir de niño),
>> 8) Miguel Galván (13-V-1596, aunque su partida está después de la del
>> 15-II-1612; padrinos: Diego Ramírez y su mujer; fue padrino el
>> 16-XII-1616 de Magdalena, hija de Gabriel Rico y María de Nava, y el
>> 4-IX-1629 de Diego, hijo de Manuel de Guevara e Isabel Picón), y 9) doña
>> Francisca de Espíndola, que casó con don José de Gaona y Aguirre, antes
>> de 1629. A doña Francisca le llaman "doña Francisca Galvana" en la
>> partida del 13-XI-1630. A Catalina de Espínola (quizá
>> hija de Diego Ramírez Coy y Catalina de Espíndola, nacida el 4-IX-1599),
>> mujer de Jorge de Villafuerte, también se le llama "Catalina Rico" (cfr.
>> 20-V-1629 y 20-III-1632). Hernán Galván testó el 31-XII-1607 con codicilo
>> del 9-I-1608.
>> http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/galvan.html
>>
>> If Alonso the son of Hernando married Ana López in 1608 who is the Alonso
>> that fathers Juan b. 1612 and Alonso II b. 1622 with Juana Salcedo? Is it
>> the same person and is Ana López and Juana Salcedo the same person or did
>> Ana López die and therefore Alonso married Juana Salcedo? If Juan was
>> baptized in 1612 then his father Alonso was born before 1600, circa 1590.
>> An Alonso mentioned being born about that time is the son of Hernando and
>> Francisca that married Ana López.
>>
>> There is however another Alonso from the same time period - Alonso Galván
>> y su mujer tuvieron por hijo a Hernando el 24-XI-1603; el padrino fue su
>> tío, Hernando Galván. Alonso era hijo de Tomás de Castelolón y Catalina
>> Galván.
>>
>> That Alonso has to have been born at least 16 years or more prior to
>> 1603. That means before 1587. His mother Catalina Galván had to have been
>> born on or before 1571 which is one year after Hernando Galván arrived in
>> México from Spain. Was she a sister of Hernando? If so that Alonso
>> doesn't descend from Juan Rico de Rojas unless Tomás de Castelolón does.
>>
>> Can anyone help in finding the missing info?
>>
>> Quedo corto de tiempo para traducirlo a español. Si le interesa a alguien
>> una traducción hazme saber y lo haré en cuanto me desocupo.
>>
>> Un saludo cordial, Armando
>>
>>
>> This is in response to -
>>
>> Familia Galvan de Rojas
>>
>> By mendezdelcamino - Posted on 20 August 2009
>>
>> Hello all, I found out that this alteno family who settled in Penjamo,
>> Gto. originally came from Queretaro, MX. Mariano Gonzalez Leal doesnt
>> mention this not sure why.
>>
>> I found don Alonso Galvan de Rojas II baptism
>>
>> 18 Nov 1622 in Queretaro, Queretaro, MX
>>
>> his brother Juan Galvan de Rojas 5 jan 1612 also in Queretaro.
>> Have not found the 3rd brother Gonzalez Leal mentions, Pedro Galvan de
>> Rojas.
>>
>> This family eventually made it to Los altos. Alonso II married twice,
>> Luisa Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, aka Luisa de Rodas. and then to Ana Lopez y
>> Ramirez aka, Ana de la Rivera, Ana de Liebano, Ana Rubio, Ana.
>>
>> -Daniel
>> Armando

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Discúlpenme por meterme a su conversación pero puedo decirte que Daniel
tiene esa información en su página
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=los-altos-reg…
por lo que encuentro ahí mi 7o abuelo Tomás Villalobos era hermano de
tu
7o abuelo Juan Villalobos quienes eran hijos de Salvador de Villalobos
Macías Valadez y Francisca Martín del Campo y López de La Cruz. De ellos
también desciende Celestino Villalobos. Hace falta encontrar la fecha que
quedó la hacienda de La Mesa Redonda en manos de los Villalobos.
Originalmente fue de Pedro de Anda.

Saludos,
Armando

2010/10/3 dougnmerci

> Saludos Daniel:
>
> Ya nos habiamos comunicado en el pasado. Soy Villalobos22. Agradezco la
> ayuda que siempre nos prestas en cuestiones dificiles.
>
> Acerca de Juan de Villalobos. Necesito tu ayuda. Mencionas a dos Juan de
> Villalobos. Y yo tengo a uno en mi arbol. Donde cae este?
>
> Tengo a Juan como padre de mi abuelo (7 generacion) Bartholome de
> Villalobos nacido en 1691 poco antes de la muerte de Juan.
> Juan se caso en 1684 con Beatriz Romo de Vivar Tiscareno (nacida 1668 en
> Lagos de Moreno) y murio Feb, 1, 1692
> Los padres de Beatriz fueron P.O. Romo de Vivar y Lorenza de Tiscareno.
> Sabes quien es P.O. o' que nombre significan esas letras? Habias visto a
> esta pareja antes?
>
> Creo que tengo la correcta informacion acerca de los padres de Bartholome
> de Villalobos (esposo de Maria Gonzalez de Hermosillo) pero que piensas tu?
>
> Bueno Daniel, me gustaria tu opinion. Gracias por cualquier luz que puedas
> derramar en esta parejita.
>
> Cordialmente,
> Mercedes Gomez Villalobos
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino"
> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 12:22 PM
> To: "Patty Hoyos"
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
>
>
>
>> Ya se que los Villalobos no partenece al titulo del foro pero ya
>> quemencionaste
>> parece que si los dos Juan y dos Petronila o Petra o Petrona son los
>> mismos a
>> lo menos parece una vez que parece como Antonia Petrona en los 1740s
>> y dudo que Juan de Villalobos que deberia nacer ca. 1725 tuvo hijos a 14
>> de
>> edad. No he encontrado un matrimonio pero si parece que con los mismos.
>> Pero otra vez sin probacion de documentos es solo fabricacion. Necesitamos
>> encontrar
>> algun documento para ser seguro en esto.
>>
>>
>> Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>>> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:40:03 -0700
>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
>>>
>>> I recently learned that I descend from Alonso Galván de Rojas through
>>> Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas the wife of Juan de Villalobos Tiscareño.
>>> I found a website that mentions the origins of the Galván de Rojas.
>>>
>>> Hace poco aprendí que soy descendiente de Alonso Galván de Rojas por
>>> medio de Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas la esposa de Juan de Villalobos
>>> Tiscareño. Encontré una página que habla de el origen del los Galván de
>>> Rojas.
>>>
>>> Hernando Galván, criador de ganado de ovejas, nació en Galicia hacia
>>> 1550. Llegó a la Nueva España hacia 1570.
>>>
>>> Antes de casarse, tuvo por hijo, en una mujer soltera, a Hernando Galván
>>> (c.1573, que tuvo por hijo a Francisco el 29-VIII-1594; a su padre se le
>>> llama "Hernando Galván, el mozo"; la madrina fue la hija de Juan Rico, la
>>> menor: quizá Juana; Hernán Galván, el mozo, casó con Francisca el 12-IX-1605
>>> (segundas nupcias).
>>> Hernando Galván casó con una hija de Juan Rico de Rojas (Francisca de
>>> Espíndola; ver Rico de Rojas). Tuvieron por hijos a 1) Constanza de Rojas
>>> (c.1577), que caso con Gonzalo Zamorano el 25-VIII-1597, 2) Catalina de
>>> Espíndola (c.1579), que casó con Diego Ramírez Coy, 3) Juan Galván (c.1582),
>>> que casó con doña Magdalena de Castro, 4) Alonso Galván (c.1584; Alonso
>>> Galván y Ana López se casaron y velaron el 4-I-1608), 5) Hernando, 6)
>>> Cristóbal, 7) Diego (30-XI-1593, que debió morir de niño), 8) Miguel Galván
>>> (13-V-1596, aunque su partida está después de la del 15-II-1612; padrinos:
>>> Diego Ramírez y su mujer; fue padrino el 16-XII-1616 de Magdalena, hija de
>>> Gabriel Rico y María de Nava, y el 4-IX-1629 de Diego, hijo de Manuel de
>>> Guevara e Isabel Picón), y 9) doña Francisca de Espíndola, que casó con don
>>> José de Gaona y Aguirre, antes de 1629. A doña Francisca le llaman "doña
>>> Francisca Galvana" en la partida del 13-XI-1630. A Catalina de Espínola
>>> (quizá
>>> hija de Diego Ramírez Coy y Catalina de Espíndola, nacida el 4-IX-1599),
>>> mujer de Jorge de Villafuerte, también se le llama "Catalina Rico" (cfr.
>>> 20-V-1629 y 20-III-1632). Hernán Galván testó el 31-XII-1607 con codicilo
>>> del 9-I-1608.
>>> http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/galvan.html
>>>
>>> If Alonso the son of Hernando married Ana López in 1608 who is the Alonso
>>> that fathers Juan b. 1612 and Alonso II b. 1622 with Juana Salcedo? Is it
>>> the same person and is Ana López and Juana Salcedo the same person or did
>>> Ana López die and therefore Alonso married Juana Salcedo? If Juan was
>>> baptized in 1612 then his father Alonso was born before 1600, circa 1590. An
>>> Alonso mentioned being born about that time is the son of Hernando and
>>> Francisca that married Ana López.
>>>
>>> There is however another Alonso from the same time period - Alonso Galván
>>> y su mujer tuvieron por hijo a Hernando el 24-XI-1603; el padrino fue su
>>> tío, Hernando Galván. Alonso era hijo de Tomás de Castelolón y Catalina
>>> Galván.
>>>
>>> That Alonso has to have been born at least 16 years or more prior to
>>> 1603. That means before 1587. His mother Catalina Galván had to have been
>>> born on or before 1571 which is one year after Hernando Galván arrived in
>>> México from Spain. Was she a sister of Hernando? If so that Alonso doesn't
>>> descend from Juan Rico de Rojas unless Tomás de Castelolón does.
>>>
>>> Can anyone help in finding the missing info?
>>>
>>> Quedo corto de tiempo para traducirlo a español. Si le interesa a alguien
>>> una traducción hazme saber y lo haré en cuanto me desocupo.
>>>
>>> Un saludo cordial, Armando
>>>
>>>
>>> This is in response to -
>>>
>>> Familia Galvan de Rojas
>>>
>>> By mendezdelcamino - Posted on 20 August 2009
>>>
>>> Hello all, I found out that this alteno family who settled in Penjamo,
>>> Gto. originally came from Queretaro, MX. Mariano Gonzalez Leal doesnt
>>> mention this not sure why.
>>>
>>> I found don Alonso Galvan de Rojas II baptism
>>>
>>> 18 Nov 1622 in Queretaro, Queretaro, MX
>>>
>>> his brother Juan Galvan de Rojas 5 jan 1612 also in Queretaro.
>>> Have not found the 3rd brother Gonzalez Leal mentions, Pedro Galvan de
>>> Rojas.
>>>
>>> This family eventually made it to Los altos. Alonso II married twice,
>>> Luisa Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, aka Luisa de Rodas. and then to Ana Lopez y
>>> Ramirez aka, Ana de la Rivera, Ana de Liebano, Ana Rubio, Ana.
>>>
>>> -Daniel
>>> Armando
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Cuidado esa pagina ya tiene mas del ano y no he corregido bastante
cosas que ahora he econtrado. Utilizadlo como un base pero no como
cosa final ya que SI contiene errores.

Daniel

> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:26:42 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
>
> Discúlpenme por meterme a su conversación pero puedo decirte que Daniel
> tiene esa información en su página
> http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=los-altos-reg…
> por lo que encuentro ahí mi 7o abuelo Tomás Villalobos era hermano de
> tu
> 7o abuelo Juan Villalobos quienes eran hijos de Salvador de Villalobos
> Macías Valadez y Francisca Martín del Campo y López de La Cruz. De ellos
> también desciende Celestino Villalobos. Hace falta encontrar la fecha que
> quedó la hacienda de La Mesa Redonda en manos de los Villalobos.
> Originalmente fue de Pedro de Anda.
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
> 2010/10/3 dougnmerci
>
> > Saludos Daniel:
> >
> > Ya nos habiamos comunicado en el pasado. Soy Villalobos22. Agradezco la
> > ayuda que siempre nos prestas en cuestiones dificiles.
> >
> > Acerca de Juan de Villalobos. Necesito tu ayuda. Mencionas a dos Juan de
> > Villalobos. Y yo tengo a uno en mi arbol. Donde cae este?
> >
> > Tengo a Juan como padre de mi abuelo (7 generacion) Bartholome de
> > Villalobos nacido en 1691 poco antes de la muerte de Juan.
> > Juan se caso en 1684 con Beatriz Romo de Vivar Tiscareno (nacida 1668 en
> > Lagos de Moreno) y murio Feb, 1, 1692
> > Los padres de Beatriz fueron P.O. Romo de Vivar y Lorenza de Tiscareno.
> > Sabes quien es P.O. o' que nombre significan esas letras? Habias visto a
> > esta pareja antes?
> >
> > Creo que tengo la correcta informacion acerca de los padres de Bartholome
> > de Villalobos (esposo de Maria Gonzalez de Hermosillo) pero que piensas tu?
> >
> > Bueno Daniel, me gustaria tu opinion. Gracias por cualquier luz que puedas
> > derramar en esta parejita.
> >
> > Cordialmente,
> > Mercedes Gomez Villalobos
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino"
> > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 12:22 PM
> > To: "Patty Hoyos"
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
> >
> >
> >
> >> Ya se que los Villalobos no partenece al titulo del foro pero ya
> >> quemencionaste
> >> parece que si los dos Juan y dos Petronila o Petra o Petrona son los
> >> mismos a
> >> lo menos parece una vez que parece como Antonia Petrona en los 1740s
> >> y dudo que Juan de Villalobos que deberia nacer ca. 1725 tuvo hijos a 14
> >> de
> >> edad. No he encontrado un matrimonio pero si parece que con los mismos.
> >> Pero otra vez sin probacion de documentos es solo fabricacion. Necesitamos
> >> encontrar
> >> algun documento para ser seguro en esto.
> >>
> >>
> >> Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> >>> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:40:03 -0700
> >>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
> >>>
> >>> I recently learned that I descend from Alonso Galván de Rojas through
> >>> Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas the wife of Juan de Villalobos Tiscareño.
> >>> I found a website that mentions the origins of the Galván de Rojas.
> >>>
> >>> Hace poco aprendí que soy descendiente de Alonso Galván de Rojas por
> >>> medio de Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas la esposa de Juan de Villalobos
> >>> Tiscareño. Encontré una página que habla de el origen del los Galván de
> >>> Rojas.
> >>>
> >>> Hernando Galván, criador de ganado de ovejas, nació en Galicia hacia
> >>> 1550. Llegó a la Nueva España hacia 1570.
> >>>
> >>> Antes de casarse, tuvo por hijo, en una mujer soltera, a Hernando Galván
> >>> (c.1573, que tuvo por hijo a Francisco el 29-VIII-1594; a su padre se le
> >>> llama "Hernando Galván, el mozo"; la madrina fue la hija de Juan Rico, la
> >>> menor: quizá Juana; Hernán Galván, el mozo, casó con Francisca el 12-IX-1605
> >>> (segundas nupcias).
> >>> Hernando Galván casó con una hija de Juan Rico de Rojas (Francisca de
> >>> Espíndola; ver Rico de Rojas). Tuvieron por hijos a 1) Constanza de Rojas
> >>> (c.1577), que caso con Gonzalo Zamorano el 25-VIII-1597, 2) Catalina de
> >>> Espíndola (c.1579), que casó con Diego Ramírez Coy, 3) Juan Galván (c.1582),
> >>> que casó con doña Magdalena de Castro, 4) Alonso Galván (c.1584; Alonso
> >>> Galván y Ana López se casaron y velaron el 4-I-1608), 5) Hernando, 6)
> >>> Cristóbal, 7) Diego (30-XI-1593, que debió morir de niño), 8) Miguel Galván
> >>> (13-V-1596, aunque su partida está después de la del 15-II-1612; padrinos:
> >>> Diego Ramírez y su mujer; fue padrino el 16-XII-1616 de Magdalena, hija de
> >>> Gabriel Rico y María de Nava, y el 4-IX-1629 de Diego, hijo de Manuel de
> >>> Guevara e Isabel Picón), y 9) doña Francisca de Espíndola, que casó con don
> >>> José de Gaona y Aguirre, antes de 1629. A doña Francisca le llaman "doña
> >>> Francisca Galvana" en la partida del 13-XI-1630. A Catalina de Espínola
> >>> (quizá
> >>> hija de Diego Ramírez Coy y Catalina de Espíndola, nacida el 4-IX-1599),
> >>> mujer de Jorge de Villafuerte, también se le llama "Catalina Rico" (cfr.
> >>> 20-V-1629 y 20-III-1632). Hernán Galván testó el 31-XII-1607 con codicilo
> >>> del 9-I-1608.
> >>> http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/galvan.html
> >>>
> >>> If Alonso the son of Hernando married Ana López in 1608 who is the Alonso
> >>> that fathers Juan b. 1612 and Alonso II b. 1622 with Juana Salcedo? Is it
> >>> the same person and is Ana López and Juana Salcedo the same person or did
> >>> Ana López die and therefore Alonso married Juana Salcedo? If Juan was
> >>> baptized in 1612 then his father Alonso was born before 1600, circa 1590. An
> >>> Alonso mentioned being born about that time is the son of Hernando and
> >>> Francisca that married Ana López.
> >>>
> >>> There is however another Alonso from the same time period - Alonso Galván
> >>> y su mujer tuvieron por hijo a Hernando el 24-XI-1603; el padrino fue su
> >>> tío, Hernando Galván. Alonso era hijo de Tomás de Castelolón y Catalina
> >>> Galván.
> >>>
> >>> That Alonso has to have been born at least 16 years or more prior to
> >>> 1603. That means before 1587. His mother Catalina Galván had to have been
> >>> born on or before 1571 which is one year after Hernando Galván arrived in
> >>> México from Spain. Was she a sister of Hernando? If so that Alonso doesn't
> >>> descend from Juan Rico de Rojas unless Tomás de Castelolón does.
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone help in finding the missing info?
> >>>
> >>> Quedo corto de tiempo para traducirlo a español. Si le interesa a alguien
> >>> una traducción hazme saber y lo haré en cuanto me desocupo.
> >>>
> >>> Un saludo cordial, Armando
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is in response to -
> >>>
> >>> Familia Galvan de Rojas
> >>>
> >>> By mendezdelcamino - Posted on 20 August 2009
> >>>
> >>> Hello all, I found out that this alteno family who settled in Penjamo,
> >>> Gto. originally came from Queretaro, MX. Mariano Gonzalez Leal doesnt
> >>> mention this not sure why.
> >>>
> >>> I found don Alonso Galvan de Rojas II baptism
> >>>
> >>> 18 Nov 1622 in Queretaro, Queretaro, MX
> >>>
> >>> his brother Juan Galvan de Rojas 5 jan 1612 also in Queretaro.
> >>> Have not found the 3rd brother Gonzalez Leal mentions, Pedro Galvan de
> >>> Rojas.
> >>>
> >>> This family eventually made it to Los altos. Alonso II married twice,
> >>> Luisa Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, aka Luisa de Rodas. and then to Ana Lopez y
> >>> Ramirez aka, Ana de la Rivera, Ana de Liebano, Ana Rubio, Ana.
> >>>
> >>> -Daniel
> >>> Armando
> >>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>
> >>> To post, send email to:
> >>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Siempre ha averiguado lo que encontraba por otros medios especialmente por
lo que hay en Geneanet del genealogista profesional Javier Sanchiz tambien
de Francisco Martín Lara y de vez en cuando Salvador Cabral y Guillermo
Tovar de Teresa y algunos otros medios cuando no encuentro la información en
Pilot.

Armando

2010/10/4 Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino

>
> Cuidado esa pagina ya tiene mas del ano y no he corregido bastante
> cosas que ahora he econtrado. Utilizadlo como un base pero no como
> cosa final ya que SI contiene errores.
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:26:42 -0500
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
> >
> > Discúlpenme por meterme a su conversación pero puedo decirte que Daniel
> > tiene esa información en su página
> >
> http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=los-altos-reg…
> <
> http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=los…
> >y
> > por lo que encuentro ahí mi 7o abuelo Tomás Villalobos era hermano de
> > tu
> > 7o abuelo Juan Villalobos quienes eran hijos de Salvador de Villalobos
> > Macías Valadez y Francisca Martín del Campo y López de La Cruz. De ellos
> > también desciende Celestino Villalobos. Hace falta encontrar la fecha que
> > quedó la hacienda de La Mesa Redonda en manos de los Villalobos.
> > Originalmente fue de Pedro de Anda.
> >
> > Saludos,
> > Armando
> >
> > 2010/10/3 dougnmerci
> >
> > > Saludos Daniel:
> > >
> > > Ya nos habiamos comunicado en el pasado. Soy Villalobos22. Agradezco la
> > > ayuda que siempre nos prestas en cuestiones dificiles.
> > >
> > > Acerca de Juan de Villalobos. Necesito tu ayuda. Mencionas a dos Juan
> de
> > > Villalobos. Y yo tengo a uno en mi arbol. Donde cae este?
> > >
> > > Tengo a Juan como padre de mi abuelo (7 generacion) Bartholome de
> > > Villalobos nacido en 1691 poco antes de la muerte de Juan.
> > > Juan se caso en 1684 con Beatriz Romo de Vivar Tiscareno (nacida 1668
> en
> > > Lagos de Moreno) y murio Feb, 1, 1692
> > > Los padres de Beatriz fueron P.O. Romo de Vivar y Lorenza de Tiscareno.
> > > Sabes quien es P.O. o' que nombre significan esas letras? Habias visto
> a
> > > esta pareja antes?
> > >
> > > Creo que tengo la correcta informacion acerca de los padres de
> Bartholome
> > > de Villalobos (esposo de Maria Gonzalez de Hermosillo) pero que piensas
> tu?
> > >
> > > Bueno Daniel, me gustaria tu opinion. Gracias por cualquier luz que
> puedas
> > > derramar en esta parejita.
> > >
> > > Cordialmente,
> > > Mercedes Gomez Villalobos
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > From: "Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino"
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 12:22 PM
> > > To: "Patty Hoyos"
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Ya se que los Villalobos no partenece al titulo del foro pero ya
> > >> quemencionaste
> > >> parece que si los dos Juan y dos Petronila o Petra o Petrona son los
> > >> mismos a
> > >> lo menos parece una vez que parece como Antonia Petrona en los 1740s
> > >> y dudo que Juan de Villalobos que deberia nacer ca. 1725 tuvo hijos a
> 14
> > >> de
> > >> edad. No he encontrado un matrimonio pero si parece que con los
> mismos.
> > >> Pero otra vez sin probacion de documentos es solo fabricacion.
> Necesitamos
> > >> encontrar
> > >> algun documento para ser seguro en esto.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > >>> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:40:03 -0700
> > >>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familia Galvan de Rojas
> > >>>
> > >>> I recently learned that I descend from Alonso Galván de Rojas through
> > >>> Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas the wife of Juan de Villalobos
> Tiscareño.
> > >>> I found a website that mentions the origins of the Galván de Rojas.
> > >>>
> > >>> Hace poco aprendí que soy descendiente de Alonso Galván de Rojas por
> > >>> medio de Antonia Petronila Galván de Rojas la esposa de Juan de
> Villalobos
> > >>> Tiscareño. Encontré una página que habla de el origen del los Galván
> de
> > >>> Rojas.
> > >>>
> > >>> Hernando Galván, criador de ganado de ovejas, nació en Galicia hacia
> > >>> 1550. Llegó a la Nueva España hacia 1570.
> > >>>
> > >>> Antes de casarse, tuvo por hijo, en una mujer soltera, a Hernando
> Galván
> > >>> (c.1573, que tuvo por hijo a Francisco el 29-VIII-1594; a su padre se
> le
> > >>> llama "Hernando Galván, el mozo"; la madrina fue la hija de Juan
> Rico, la
> > >>> menor: quizá Juana; Hernán Galván, el mozo, casó con Francisca el
> 12-IX-1605
> > >>> (segundas nupcias).
> > >>> Hernando Galván casó con una hija de Juan Rico de Rojas (Francisca de
> > >>> Espíndola; ver Rico de Rojas). Tuvieron por hijos a 1) Constanza de
> Rojas
> > >>> (c.1577), que caso con Gonzalo Zamorano el 25-VIII-1597, 2) Catalina
> de
> > >>> Espíndola (c.1579), que casó con Diego Ramírez Coy, 3) Juan Galván
> (c.1582),
> > >>> que casó con doña Magdalena de Castro, 4) Alonso Galván (c.1584;
> Alonso
> > >>> Galván y Ana López se casaron y velaron el 4-I-1608), 5) Hernando, 6)
> > >>> Cristóbal, 7) Diego (30-XI-1593, que debió morir de niño), 8) Miguel
> Galván
> > >>> (13-V-1596, aunque su partida está después de la del 15-II-1612;
> padrinos:
> > >>> Diego Ramírez y su mujer; fue padrino el 16-XII-1616 de Magdalena,
> hija de
> > >>> Gabriel Rico y María de Nava, y el 4-IX-1629 de Diego, hijo de Manuel
> de
> > >>> Guevara e Isabel Picón), y 9) doña Francisca de Espíndola, que casó
> con don
> > >>> José de Gaona y Aguirre, antes de 1629. A doña Francisca le llaman
> "doña
> > >>> Francisca Galvana" en la partida del 13-XI-1630. A Catalina de
> Espínola
> > >>> (quizá
> > >>> hija de Diego Ramírez Coy y Catalina de Espíndola, nacida el
> 4-IX-1599),
> > >>> mujer de Jorge de Villafuerte, también se le llama "Catalina Rico"
> (cfr.
> > >>> 20-V-1629 y 20-III-1632). Hernán Galván testó el 31-XII-1607 con
> codicilo
> > >>> del 9-I-1608.
> > >>> http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/galvan.html
> > >>>
> > >>> If Alonso the son of Hernando married Ana López in 1608 who is the
> Alonso
> > >>> that fathers Juan b. 1612 and Alonso II b. 1622 with Juana Salcedo?
> Is it
> > >>> the same person and is Ana López and Juana Salcedo the same person or
> did
> > >>> Ana López die and therefore Alonso married Juana Salcedo? If Juan was
> > >>> baptized in 1612 then his father Alonso was born before 1600, circa
> 1590. An
> > >>> Alonso mentioned being born about that time is the son of Hernando
> and
> > >>> Francisca that married Ana López.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is however another Alonso from the same time period - Alonso
> Galván
> > >>> y su mujer tuvieron por hijo a Hernando el 24-XI-1603; el padrino fue
> su
> > >>> tío, Hernando Galván. Alonso era hijo de Tomás de Castelolón y
> Catalina
> > >>> Galván.
> > >>>
> > >>> That Alonso has to have been born at least 16 years or more prior to
> > >>> 1603. That means before 1587. His mother Catalina Galván had to have
> been
> > >>> born on or before 1571 which is one year after Hernando Galván
> arrived in
> > >>> México from Spain. Was she a sister of Hernando? If so that Alonso
> doesn't
> > >>> descend from Juan Rico de Rojas unless Tomás de Castelolón does.
> > >>>
> > >>> Can anyone help in finding the missing info?
> > >>>
> > >>> Quedo corto de tiempo para traducirlo a español. Si le interesa a
> alguien
> > >>> una traducción hazme saber y lo haré en cuanto me desocupo.
> > >>>
> > >>> Un saludo cordial, Armando
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> This is in response to -
> > >>>
> > >>> Familia Galvan de Rojas
> > >>>
> > >>> By mendezdelcamino - Posted on 20 August 2009
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello all, I found out that this alteno family who settled in
> Penjamo,
> > >>> Gto. originally came from Queretaro, MX. Mariano Gonzalez Leal doesnt
> > >>> mention this not sure why.
> > >>>
> > >>> I found don Alonso Galvan de Rojas II baptism
> > >>>
> > >>> 18 Nov 1622 in Queretaro, Queretaro, MX
> > >>>
> > >>> his brother Juan Galvan de Rojas 5 jan 1612 also in Queretaro.
> > >>> Have not found the 3rd brother Gonzalez Leal mentions, Pedro Galvan
> de
> > >>> Rojas.
> > >>>
> > >>> This family eventually made it to Los altos. Alonso II married twice,
> > >>> Luisa Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, aka Luisa de Rodas. and then to Ana
> Lopez y
> > >>> Ramirez aka, Ana de la Rivera, Ana de Liebano, Ana Rubio, Ana.
> > >>>
> > >>> -Daniel
> > >>> Armando
> > >>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > >>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >>>
> > >>> To post, send email to:
> > >>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >>>
> > >>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> > >>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >>
> > >> To post, send email to:
> > >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >>
> > >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> > >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >>
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Daniel,

Me llegó una copia del matrimonio de Franisco Galván y Petronila Villalobos. No sabia que ya estaba paleografiado y mencionado en este foro.

10 de Octubre de 1688
Petronila de Villalobos, esp. vezina de esta ? en la Hacienda del salto grande, hija lexitima de Cristóbal de Villalobos difunto, y Doña Nicolasa de Contreras; con Francisco Galván, hijo lexitimo de Hernando Galvan y Doña Juana Pérez de Ortega, esp. vezinos de la Villa de Leon, del Obispado de Mechoacán.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16928

Con eso parece que el Francisco Galván nacido en Lagos en 1660 no fue el mismo que casó con esta Petronila Villalobos porque en esa partida de bautismo dice -
Bauticé a Francsco español hijo legitimo de Alonso Galván de Rojas y de Luisa de Rodas echele el agua por estar en peligro fueron padrinos Alonso Moreno de Ortega y Doña Josepha de Villegas su madre nació a 16 de octrubre de de dicho año. Br. Alejo de Vidaurre

Supongo que Cristóbal Villalobos fue hijo de Tomás de Villalobos y Catarina Macías Valadez y Villegas y la esposa fue Nicolasa Contreras Lomelín por lo que encuentro en http://historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/nobles.html que dice -
un sitio de ganado Mayor en la Jurisdicción de Teocaltiche en el río que llaman los Sauces, camino debajo de Michoacán, contiguo a otro mi sitio de los herederos de Thomas de Villalobos, el cual es mío propio y lo hube y compre de Doña Nicolasa Lomelín viuda de Don Cristóbal de Villalobos, y de Francisco Galván y de Doña Petronila de Villalobos su mujer (…) el cual linda por el oriente, norte y sur con tierras de dicho Antonio de Acosta y por el poniente con tierras del Bachiller Francisco Martín del Campo. Y con todas sus entradas y salidas, usos y costumbres, derechos y servidumbres, cuantas ha y tiene, y por derecho le deba pertenecer, y con la casa, ranchos, corrales y más que en el hubiere fabricado (…) en precio y cuantía de quinientos pesos de oro común en reales.(13)

Si tu o alguien mas tiene información sobre esas familias se lo agradecería mucho.

Saludos cordiales,
Armando

Familia Galvan de Rojas

Comment

Hola don Armando,

Al respesto a su respuesta sobre los Galvan de Rojas. Encontre hace algunos
meses algunos datos que todavia no estan listo ser publicados sobre esta familia,
ya he probado la conexcion entre los Altos de Jalisco y los de Queretaro. Pero
hay confusion en los fines del siglo XVII, no he tenido tiempo en trabajar en esta linea.

Con este dato que ha propocionado dice que habia dos Francisco Galvan de Rojas
en la area de los Altos de Jalisco. Primer el que caso a la Sra. Petronila de Villalobos
y luego su primo tambien nombrado Francisco Galvan de Rojas bautizado el 26 de
octubre de 1660 en Santa Maria de los Lagos hijo de don Alonso Galvan de Rojas y
Luisa de Rodas o Ruvalcaba, casaron 2 de marzo de 1653 en Lagos de Moreno.

No he encontrado el matrimonio de don Cristobal de Villalobos y Nicolasa de Lomelin
pero aun el expediente que Ud refiero dice lo siguiente:

un sitio de ganado Mayor en la Jurisdicción de Teocaltiche en el río que llaman los Sauces,
camino debajo de Michoacán, contiguo a otro mi sitio de los herederos de Thomas de Villalobos,
el cual es mío propio y lo hube y compre de Doña Nicolasa Lomelín viuda de Don Cristóbal de
Villalobos, y de Francisco Galván y de Doña Petronila de Villalobos su mujer (…) el cual linda por
el oriente, norte y sur con tierras de dicho Antonio de Acosta y por el poniente con tierras del
Bachiller Francisco Martín del Campo. Y con todas sus entradas y salidas, usos y costumbres,
derechos y servidumbres, cuantas ha y tiene, y por derecho le deba pertenecer, y con la casa,
ranchos, corrales y más que en el hubiere fabricado (…) en precio y cuantía de quinientos pesos
de oro común en reales.(13)

Esto dice que Cristobal Villalobos quien caso Nicolasa de Lomelin debe ser el mismo quien se bautizo
en Aguascalientes 27 de marzo de 1641 en Aguascalientes, hijo de Thomas de Villalobos y Catarina
Macias Valadez donde tuvo su sitio de ganado en la jurisdiccion de Aguascalientes.

No se los origenes de la Nicolasa de Lomelin Contreras podia ser hija de Nicolas Perez y Jimenez Contreras y Maria de Lomelin,
hija de Carlo Lomellini, vezinos de Nochistlan. La problema es que era casada con Melchor Gonzalez de Hermosillo,
bautizado 19 de enero de 1643 en Jalostotilan hijo de Melchor Gonzalez de HErmosillo y Beatriz Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba.
Podia ser que Nicolasa de Lomelin Contreras caso dos veces, pero aun se necesita probar.

Si tuvo exito encontrar el matrimonio del hermano Francisco Galvan de Rojas, otro hijo de HErnando Galvan de Rojas y
Juana de Salcedo, originarios de Queretaro. Se llamaba Alfredo Antonio Galvan de Roxas casado con MAria Juana
de Salcedo el 23 de mayo de 1701 lo encontre en los matrimonios de Ciudad Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato. Como
saben ciudades como Leon, Salamanca, Guanajuato, Ciudad MAnuel Doblado estan entre los de Queretaro y Los Altos
de Jalisco, en Guanajuato tambien vivian los Galvan de Rojas, como lo consta el matrimonio que Ud propociono
Hernando Galvan de Roxas y Juana Perez de Ortega vecinos de Leon, en el Obispado de Michoacan, aunque
Juana Perez de Ortega era de la villa de Santa Maria de los Lagos, casados en Leon el 21 de abril de 1653
hija de Alonso Perez de Ortega y Maria de Xerez, vecinos de Santa Maria de los Lagos.

Tambien vengo de esta linea por otro hermano llamado Nicolas Galvan de Rojas, tambien utilizo el apellido
Rubio de Zepeda, aun desconozco el origen de dicho apellido pero era hijo de Hernando Galvan de rojas
y Juana Perez de Ortega caso a Catalina de Liebano, vecina de Ayo el Chico hija de Juan Ascencio de Leon y
Geronima de Liebano.

Podia pedirle por una copia del matrimonio que recibio, quisiera estudiarlo poco mas.

Daniel Méndez y Pérez de Camino

Alonso Galván

Comment

Hola:

Hubo cuando menos dos primos con el nombre de Alonso Galván, uno hijo de Hernado Galván y otro de Tomás de Castellón. Los detalles están en mi entrada Testamento de Hernando Galván.

Hay una rama de la familia en Apaseo.

Saludos

Marcelina

Jose de Guzman y prado

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hello Nuestros Ranchos forum,

does anyone know something about don jose de Guzman y prado?

Comments

Dying poor

Comment

Many people that were well off during their lifetime are recorded in their record of "defuncîon"as being poor. Life was tough and it was easy to go from doing alright to being poor, especially in old age. Many assets were often distributed before death occurred so then there is no need for a will and the "acta de defuncíon" will say "pobre".

Familia Guzmán y Prado

Comment

Hola Danny:

Como no se cuando nació José, hice una busqueda más amplia y me resultó un familia en de Aguascalientes en Familysearch:

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHPR-8D9 : 14 July 2015), Luis De Mendosa and Felipa De Gusman Y Prado, 20 Feb 1702; citing El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,823.

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHPR-DMP : 14 July 2015), Melchor De Richarte and Ana De Gusman Prado, 20 Jan 1726; citing El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,825.

Son siete registros pero no se si te sirvan.

Saludos

Marcelina

guzman yprado

Comment

Thank you Mr. Ricci and Marcelina. this is very helpful. but it still seems strange that someone name Don Jose de guzman y Prado was a exposito.

Danny C. Alonso

Exposito

Comment

Dear Danny,

I am in agreement with you that this isn't a typical "exposito" case as a double surname is given. They probably knew who his parents were. Actually in many cases they knew who the parents were but they were kept secret. A great uncle of mine adopted a child who was labeled "exposito" but this great uncle knew who the parents were. A not to distant relative had an affair and fathered the child. My great uncle adopted the child without ever divulging that there was also a blood relationship between Him and his adopted child. He preferred that the circumstances of the affair be kept secret. I was never able to find out the identity of my aunt's biological father, just that he shared the same surname as my great uncle.

Many times the "exposito" child was a blood relative to the family that was adopting him/her, just like my aunts case.

Rick A. Ricci

Jose de Guzman y prado

Comment

Hi Danny,

Don José de Guzmán y Prado is my 9th great grandfather, but, I'm not sure I completely understand your question, although, I think you're asking why is someone poor, who was abandoned as a child, being addressed with the honorific "don." Also, I know who you're referring to, but, for others, it's always helpful to give the spouse and the time frame.

A few things, first, I agree with Rick that life was tough during these times, many of these people were farmers, cattle ranchers, etc., so it wouldn't take much to lose your livelihood if your cattle or livestock became sick, or were attacked by other animals, or were stolen, or any number of other problems that come with raising livestock. Also, I agree that the compound surname is probably a clue to his parentage.

Second, not everyone addressed as don or doña had wealth or property, some were addressed as don or doña because of the positions they held in the community or because of who their ancestors were. Even today in Europe, many people from aristocratic families have little wealth or property, but, are still important members of society because of who their ancestors were.

Third, I'm not entirely sure of the origin of don José de Guzmán y Prado, but, I doubt he was really viewed as an abandoned child of unknown parents during his lifetime, in fact, I agree he probably knew exactly who his parents were. I think many of the people listed as hijos de padres no conocidos or expósitos probably did not know who their parents were, but, among those that were addressed as don or doña, or who used compound surnames of known prominent families, or who held high positions or ranks such as capitán like don José de Guzmán y Prado and his brother don Alonso de Guzmán y Prado, I think they probably were well aware of their actual origin, and, others probably were too. Among the more prominent families, the designation expósito and hijo de padres no conocidos seems to be used as a way to cover up some sort of scandal or illegitimacy. Although, I'm not sure that's what's going on here.

Daniel Mendez had a theory that don José de Guzmán y Prado and don Alonso de Guzmán y Prado were actually the children of don Francisco Pérez de Guzmán and doña Clara de Ayala, I don't remember all the reasons he gave, but, I do remember it made sense. I don't know what happened to my notes on this family, but, I do remember there is also some connection to Melchor de Guzmán who married Jacinta Gutiérrez de Valdivia, but, I don't remember what it is without my notes, although, I'm guessing Melchor and his wife probably appear in different records for the expósito Guzmán y Prado's as padrinos and such. It should be noted that Melchor de Guzmán's children and grandchildren also use the compuesto Guzmán y Prado, as well as, Ayala, so there probably is also a connection between Melchor de Guzman and don Francisco Pérez de Guzmán and doña Clara de Ayala.

Also, don Alonso de Guzmán y Prado had a daughter named doña Clara de Guzmán, who also went by doña Clara de Ayala, which definitely suggests a connection to don Francisco Pérez de Guzmán and doña Clara de Ayala. The only thing that doesn't make sense is, if don Francisco Pérez de Guzmán and doña Clara de Ayala are the parents of don Alonso and don José why aren't they acknowledged as such? Although, on the other hand, if they aren't related, why are the Guzmán y Prado children named after someone who they have no connection to? Also, since don José is left on the doorstep of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, why didn't he assume the apellido of the family that raised him, Esparza? It's also not like the Guzmán y Prado brothers just assumed a random apellido, like de la Cruz, they assumed a compuesto used by other prominent citizens of Aguascalientes for a reason. So, are Francisco Pérez de Guzmán and Clara de Ayala the parents? Not sure, but, I would say they are probably related and may, in fact, be the ancestors of the Guzmán y Prado's. I think, but am not sure, that Francisco Pérez de Guzmán and Clara de Ayala began baptizing their children in the 1640s, and I would say the Guzmán y Prado's were born in the mid to late 1660s, probably towards the end of the childbearing years for Clara de Ayala, but, maybe, still possible. Also, Clara de Ayala died in June of 1669(no testo). She probably wasn't too old in 1669, so if she was the mother of the Guzmán y Prado's, maybe she was ill and that was the reason for giving up the children to be raised by Pedro Ruiz de Esparza. Another possibility is that Clara de Ayala is the grandmother of the Guzmán y Prado's, which would explain them naming children after her. The theory being that one of her children born in the 1640s became pregnant and, in order to prevent a scandal, was given up to be raised by someone else. Either way, if Francisco de Guzmán and Clara de Ayala are the parents or grandparents, something must've prevented them from raising the children themselves, since, they could've simply said the children were expósitos in the house of Francisco de Guzmán, so, perhaps they were ill, or didn't have the resources. Or, perhaps, there's no connection at all to the Guzmán y Prado's. But the fact that there's a Clara de Guzmán y Prado, aka, Clara de Ayala married to Baltasar de Aguilera, suggests otherwise.

Lastly, regarding the defunción of José de Guzmán y Prado, I'm not entirely sure he was poor. I've seen several instances where it says no testo for one spouse, and then, shortly after, when the other spouse dies, they will leave a very detailed testament. Plus, capitán José de Guzmán y Prado is listed as a merchant on several records, so, his livelihood didn't depend on crops or livestock. I've seen several documents on sigue.aguascalientes where he's buying and selling, mostly slaves, but, even that still shows he has some assets. Also, his wife doña Catalina de Mendoza, daughter of capitán Francisco de Mendoza and doña Magdalena de Villalobos brought a dowry to the marriage of 1000 pesos in property, clothes and one slave. And, when his father in law died he was named as Albaceas along with his brother in law, the priest, Joseph de Mendoza, so, he may have received something from the Will also.

The fact is, many of these ancestors clearly were trying to prevent certain information from coming to light. I'm not sure if they were trying to hide it from other family members, contemporaries, ecclesiastical authorities, or future generations. But, hopefully, once enough records are gathered a clearer picture will emerge of this family and we will be able to piece together their ancestry. I will try to find my notes, as well as, add additional children to Wikitree and maybe that will uncover additional findings.

Chris

jose de guzman y prado

Comment

Thank you Chris and Mr. Ricci. This is extremely helpful. i didnt know any of this information. a lot of this is very interesting. I'll need to go through this more than once.

Danny C. Alonso

Guzman y Prado

Comment

Guzman y Prado is not my line, but in my frustrating search for the root of the Ruelas/Sotomayor line I came across an entry a while back that may help you...or not.

In 1707 Francisco Lino de Guzman from Pinos desired to enter the priesthood. His parents were Capt. Alonso de Guzman de Prado and Polonia de Castaneda. Various witnesses stated that Alonso was the legitimate son of Capt. Francisco de Guzman y Prado and Clara de Ayala.

There are many relatives from religious orders mentioned, mainly on Polonia’s side. However, they did identify two cousins (primos hermanos) of Alonso:

Dr. D. Geronimo de Aguilar (deceased), Canonigo Magistral de la Cd de Guadalajara
Dr. D. Diego de Aguilar, Racionero de la Sta. Iglesia Catedral de Cd de Valladolid

You can see the full extraction in my Dropbox account. Click on MLM extractions (draft).doc. It is on page 120 of 139.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…

Below is a link to the original 19 Sep 1707 Aguascalientes entry in film 168697, Ordenes 1707-1736, Image 335 of 633. From the Ordenes films in the Guadalajara Diocese archives.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DV94-XS?i=334&wc=3JWG-W3F%…

Guzman y Prado is an interesting line. That exposito element is challenging. Good luck. Hope these links work..and help.

Regards to all,
Mary Lou Montagna

Guzman y Prado

Comment

Wow, Mary Lou this is amazing. This solves half of a huge mystery. I descend from both Alonso de Guzman y Prado and Joseph de Guzman y Prado, so this helps me out tremendously. Although, it also confuses me now even more. I've believed and have been told since I began researching three years ago that both were brothers. Even if there weren't other posts mentioning they were brothers, it still seemed obvious that they were, especially since they're the only two people that use the compuesto Guzman y Prado until their own children begin using it. Plus, they are relatively close in age. Joseph de Guzman y Prado even appears as the padrino to some of Alonso de Guzman y Prado's children. They even intermarried into the same families. So, now knowing that Alonso de Guzman y Prado is the son of Francisco de Guzman and Clara de Ayala, even though this does add more confusion, I think it definitely now suggests that Joseph de Guzman y Prado is a possible illegitimate child of one of the children of Francisco de Guzman and Clara de Ayala. Thanks so much Mary Lou for sharing this information. And, thanks for making the dropbox available to all of us.

Chris

Dropbox

Comment

Very glad to share. Realize now that what I post in Dropbox does not allow the reader to search and find specific words. That is disappointing because it limits research of larger files. If you'll send me your email I'll be happy to provide you with copies of my Word documents. Thanks.

Mary Lou

where is san gregorio is chihuahua?

Forums

Genealogy Research

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-FS98-W8?i=160&wc=3J41-JWL%…

Comments

San Gregorio

Comment

Katy

In the 1930 census there is a hacienda named San Gregorio in the municipio of Allende, Chihuahua.

George Fulton

San Gregorio

Comment

thanks for the prompt response, & i think i found her baptism there just now in the link below

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6SL3-QD7?i=1019&wc=3J1R-W3…

San Gregorio

Comment

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/29935593

O.E.

FW: Somos Primos September 2016 (5)

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

-----Original Message-----
From: mimilozano@somosprimos.com [mailto:mimilozano@somosprimos.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 3:42 PM
To: mimilozano@aol.com
Subject: Somos Primos September 201

Blasones y Apellidos Hard Cover set of books

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

From: Joseph Puentes [mailto:makas@nc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 7:57 PM
To: 'general@nuestrosranchos.org'
Cc: 'ignacio_narro@yahoo.com'

Comments

price

Comment

I am interested in this book, but one year ago it sold for $43.00 now it's $108. The link you are giving is for $375.00

Blasones y Apellidos

Forums

Genealogy Research

Dear Friends and Members of the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society:

Gertrudis Romero de Chaves

Forums

Genealogy Research

I can’t understand the marriage references to Joseph Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Gertrudis Romero.

Comments

Royal ancestry of Linda

Comment

Dear Linda,

The comment of third and fourth cousins marrying repeatedly in your family tree brings up a story on one of your ancestors. A king who was married went to spend the summer at the home of a distant cousin. He had a summer fling with his distant cousins daughter and got her pregnant. After a daughter was born from this summer fling, the newly born daughter was taken and raised as royalty as she was the first born of this king. He had a family member raise her. Many years later this King was at war with another king that was a descendant of el Cid.

After the war, peace was made and a marriage was negotiated to help keep the peace. This illegitimate daughter was married to the other king and they had two daughters. After this much older king died after six years of marriage, she remarried and had more children. You descend from this second marriage.

She and her second husband were held in high regard by the king as he was her half brother. Her second husband helped govern Asturias and she was known as the queen of Asturias as she had been previously been married to a king, a daughter to the king, and half sister to a king. Asturias was not a separate Kingdom and was part of her half brothers kingdom.

She and her second husband became greedy and attempted to break away the kingdom of Asturias and claimed to be their official King and Queen. It did not go well for them and they lost their high standing in the royal court. If they had left well enough alone she could have continued to be called the unofficial Queen of Asturias and he could of continued helping govern the area. He had his eyes taken out as punishment for trying to become the King of Asturias.

R.A. Ricci

Gertrudis Romero de Chaves

Comment

Thank you all for your help. It seems my family almost always married third and fourth cousins. I have found a lot of information in the marriage investigations and baptism records. However, that Gertrudis took her great grandmother's surname, Zamora, instead of her father's, mother's, or grandmother's surname confused me. I don't speak Spanish but I have learned to pick out the relevant information from FamilySearch.org records. However, I still need help in figuring out some of the family connections. They are quite complicated.

Linda Romero

Surname complications

Comment

Dear Linda,
I agree that the use of different surnames makes research complicated at times, but I have also used this practice to look for clues as to the ancestry. This line that you are researching is one that I have worked on for a long time. It is part of my book that shows how many founding families were related to each other in Spain before coming over to Nueva Galicia. I trace some of Lucas's ancestors back many centuries. You will find the changing of a surname to be a common practice. Even though at first I did not like the complications of the multiple surnames, I have found that it was excellent practice for the work that I am doing in Spain and Italy. What has made this work easier is the practice of "marrying cousins" provides a wealth of information that help explain the changing surnames.

Good Luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Surname complications

Comment

I envy your ability to read the Matrimonios and research back to Spain and Italy. I am very interested in learning more about Lucas Romero de Chaves ancestry prior to and after immigration. My brothers and I are directly descended from Lucas and would like to learn more about our family. Is your book for sale? Do you have any suggestions on researching my family in English?

I know so many birth, death, and marriage dates, but no stories about who they were and how they lived.

Please keep me informed about your research of the founding families. I am amazed by how they are all related.

Linda Romero
romero89 AT earthlink.net

Language complications

Comment

Dear Linda,

Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions on researching in English. It is not only Spanish that is important in researching our ancestors. Portuguese, basque (Euskara), Latin, French, Italian, Hebrew, Arabic, and even German are languages that I have encountered in my research. Many of these languages have different dialects which makes it even more difficult.

I am still adding more information to my book and it isn't ready to be published. I will let you know when it is finally published.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

complications

Comment

Having recently joined NR, I get a sense that I am about ten years too late and I have so much to learn.
The statement you made has me very curious: "It is part of my book that shows how many founding families were related to each other in Spain before coming over to Nueva Galicia."
Is there a list of these founding families on this site?
As for marrying cousins, I see several surnames in both maternal and paternal branches of the family.

Thanks,
hijadelcharro

Romero de Chavez Zamora

Comment

The Zamora comes from both Lucas Romero de Chavez's father and mother; and the de la Mora comes from his maternal grandmother.

Lucas is the son of Nicola Romero de Chavez and Maria Alcala y Mendoza

Nicolas is the son of Alonso Romero de Chavez and Juana Maria Zamora

Maria Alcala y Mendoza is the daughter of Juan-Lucas Alcala y de Orosco and Juana de la Mora de Aviña Mendoza

Juan-Lucas Alcala Orosco y Zamora is the son of Juan Alcala y Orosco (III) and Isabel Zamora

R.A.Ricci

Gertrudis Romero de Chaves

Comment

Linda,

She is the daughter of Lucas Romero de Chavez and Petronila Gonzalez de
Hermosillo. You can see her ancestors here on the Wikitree:

http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Romero%20Zamora-Family-Tree-1

Danny C. Alonso

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Linda wrote:

> I can’t understand the marriage references to Joseph Gonzalez de
> Hermosillo and Gertrudis Romero. It looks like she is the daughter of
> Lucas Romero de Chaves and petronila Gonzalez de Hermosillo but the record
> says she is Gertrudis Romero de Mora or Zamora.
>
> Can someone clear this up for me?
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D2XQ-8?i=118&wc=3JW5-VZ3%3…
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Linda Romero

Batch Numbers for respective Film Numbers

Forums

Genealogy Research

Comments

Batch Numbers for respective Film Numbers

Comment

Thank you for your offer. Any way I have a film number to order and also a date, may 20, 1688 baptism Silao, Gto. I was willing to see what the film content, through a batch number.

In fact that date was giving to me by Lic Mariano Gonzalez-Leal in reference to his so much expected book, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia (II) which will have my De Cos Y Leon surname.

My 8th. ancestor, Miguel De Leon Y Ramírez De Coy was baptized that date in Silao. his grandpha Juan De Leon was born in Aragon, Spain.

conrique escribió:

No, Leticia. All LDS films do NOT have Batch numbers, - - - and the Librarians at the Family History Center we both frequent tell me that there is no Cross-Index list for Film #-to-existing-Batch numbers.
But Lynn Turner (of LDS in Salt Lake City and a member of this Forum) could set us straight if this is in error !

As to the Film Numbers that you inquired about (#291844, #291845, and #291846) of Silao, Guanajuato, I think they relate to church records of the Santiago Apostol Parish and I do not believe they have respectrive Batch numbers.

I do have 6 Batch Numbers/Film#s for the Santiago Apostol Parish in Neutla (ranging from 1719 to 1843) - - - if it is the same - - - that I can provide you, if they relate to your search.

Saludos,

Efrain

Batch Numbers for respective Film Numbers

Comment

Efrain et al,

I responded to a post with a similar topic in the last email list (vol 20, issue
11), however, I left out some stuff...

The Parish and Vital Records list on micrfiche is the best PUBLISHED resource
for batch numbers. Beware that it has not been updated for nearly 10 years, but
it is a good place to start. I mentioned my favorite way to identify batch
numbers in my earlier email. It is correct to say that not all microfilms have
batch numbers, my best guess (and it's only a guess) is about 1/3 of the parish
records in the Family History Library collection have been extracted. Please
beware that not all of these have ended up in the IGI database.

Besides finding batch numbers on your own, you can also email
support@familysearch.org. The Family History Dept. has an internal limited
access database where support agents can search a microfilm number and pull up a
batch number. This internal database is not 'public knowledge' because I think
most people would lynch us if they knew it existed...it's a lot better than the
1998 P&VR list. Also, if you contact support don't tell them that I sent you. I
also have access to this database, however, my time is limited and will only be
able to do look-ups on a limited basis. I would look up btach numbers for the
before mentioned microfilms, but I'm in Austin, TX at the moment and don't have
access to the database. Thanks for your patience and let's explore some options
on how we can get a more comprehensive list of the batch numbers initially for
this research group. For more information on the IGI please see my blog post:

http://hispanicgenealogy.blogspot.com/2007/07/igi-on-familysearchorg.ht…

-Lynn

----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Batch Numbers for respective Film Numbers

Comment

Hi Leticia,

I noticed your correspondence included a reference to a forebear with the name "de Coy." Do you know anything about the name?

I have an ancestor with that name, a female, Catalina Gomez de Coy married to Juan de Caliz, living in Lepe, Spain, very south, near Portugal. They lived in the late 1500's. Their son immigrated to New Spain & gave his name as Bernardo de los Santos Coy. The name persists in south Texas.

One Mexican author I read was of the opinion that the name was from the Scottish McCoy, introduced into Spain by a traveler coming to visit the grave of Santiago.

I would appreciate anything you might know.

Thanks, Jan Jaeckle

Leticia Leon wrote:
Thank you for your offer. Any way I have a film number to order and also a date, may 20, 1688 baptism Silao, Gto. I was willing to see what the film content, through a batch number.

In fact that date was giving to me by Lic Mariano Gonzalez-Leal in reference to his so much expected book, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia (II) which will have my De Cos Y Leon surname.

My 8th. ancestor, Miguel De Leon Y Ramírez De Coy was baptized that date in Silao. his grandpha Juan De Leon was born in Aragon, Spain.

conrique escribió:

I do have 6 Batch Numbers/Film#s for the Santiago Apostol Parish in Neutla (ranging from 1719 to 1843) - - - if it is the same - - - that I can provide you, if they relate to your search.

Saludos,

Efrain

Batch Numbers for respective Film Numbers

Comment

Jan,

That is very interesting. I had not heard that theory. I am descended from the same line. I am descended from Juan Caliz and Bernardo Santos Coy through my Arredondo family. I have a list of descendants but that is about it.

Have you checked out dna testing on the line or check spanish archives for information?

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Jan Jaeckle : --------------

> Hi Leticia,
>
> I noticed your correspondence included a reference to a forebear with the
> name "de Coy." Do you know anything about the name?
>
> I have an ancestor with that name, a female, Catalina Gomez de Coy
> married to Juan de Caliz, living in Lepe, Spain, very south, near Portugal.
> They lived in the late 1500's. Their son immigrated to New Spain & gave his
> name as Bernardo de los Santos Coy. The name persists in south Texas.
>
> One Mexican author I read was of the opinion that the name was from the
> Scottish McCoy, introduced into Spain by a traveler coming to visit the grave of
> Santiago.
>
> I would appreciate anything you might know.
>
> Thanks, Jan Jaeckle
>
>
>
>
> Leticia Leon wrote:
> Thank you for your offer. Any way I have a film number to order and also a
> date, may 20, 1688 baptism Silao, Gto. I was willing to see what the film
> content, through a batch number.
>
> In fact that date was giving to me by Lic Mariano Gonzalez-Leal in reference to
> his so much expected book, Reto

Ramirez De Coy

Comment

Hi! I have no clue, yet.
I am waiting for Lic. Mariano Gonzalez-Leal next edition of "Retonos de España en la Nueva Galicia", it will contain my ancestors.
My guess is "Ramirez De Coy" was converted to "De Cos" maybe during a procedure to claim a royal benefit. Merely an especulation on my part. Ramirez De Coy is a surname that arrived to Silao in a group of hidalgos which is equivalent to knight

It seems surname "De Leon" suddenly started been used as "De Cos Y Leon"

Here an extract from an e-mail from Don Mariano to me:

"Silao fue en el Virreinato asiento de importantes actividades
agrícolas, que
atrajeron numerosas familias españolas nobles, cuyas probanzas son válidas
para las Órdenes Nobiliarias españolas, por ejemplo los Jasso, Ponce
de
León, Arguello, Fernández de Bobadilla, Fernández de Sousa, Franco de
Escalante, Olazabalegui, Sáenz de Tagle, Muñatones de la Sierra,
Cervantes-Rendon, Ramírez de Coy, de la Gasea, etcétera.
Como la mayor parte de las fundaciones españolas, Silao perdió
importancia
con la independencia. En el siglo XIX y a partrir de la guerra de
independencia comenzó a rezagarse, y mucho peor después de la
revolución de
1910."

I am not a good translator.

My ancestor Miguel De Leon was born in Silao, Gto. on may 20, 1688, son of Jose De Leon and Gerónima Ramírez De Coy, his paternal grandparents were Juan De Leon and María De Escapa originals from Aragón, Spain.

There is a web site related to surname Ramírez De Coy it is www.abuelos.com if I recall correctly.

Hope answers arrive soon.

Jan Jaeckle escribió:

Hi Leticia,

I noticed your correspondence included a reference to a forebear with the name "de Coy." Do you know anything about the name?

One Mexican author I read was of the opinion that the name was from the Scottish McCoy, introduced into Spain by a traveler coming to visit the grave of Santiago.

I would appreciate anything you might know.

---------------------------------

¡Sé un mejor besador!
Comparte todo lo que sabes sobre besos en:
http://mx.yahoo.com/promos/mejorbesador.html

Ramirez De Coy

Comment

do not know if this is correct but this is what we have found on the
Coy........

Descendants of Juan de Calis

Generation No. 1

1. JUAN1 DE CALIS was born 1575. He married CATALINA GOMEZ DE COY.

Child of JUAN DE CALIS and CATALINA DE COY is:

2. i. BERNARDO DE LOS SANTOS2 COY, b. 1603.

Generation No. 2

2. BERNARDO DE LOS SANTOS2 COY (JUAN1 DE CALIS) was born 1603. He married
BEATRIZ RUELAS ROJO.

Children of BERNARDO COY and BEATRIZ ROJO are:

3. i. BERNARDO DE LOS SANTOS3 COY, b. 1625; d. 1675.

ii. CATALINA DE LOS SANTOS COY, b. 1630; m. LORENZO GUTIERREZ GARCIA.

Generation No. 3

3. BERNARDO DE LOS SANTOS3 COY (BERNARDO DE LOS SANTOS2, JUAN1 DE CALIS) was
born 1625, and died 1675. He married INEZ DE LA CERDA 1645.

Children of BERNARDO COY and INEZ LA CERDA are:

4. i. PEDRO COY DE4 LOS SANTOS.

ii. JUAN DE CALIX COY DE LOS SANTOS, m. MARIA DIAZ.

5. iii. NICOLAS DE LOS SANTOS COY, b. 1645, Coahuila, Mexico.

iv. JOSE DE LOS SANTOS COY, m. LEONARDA GUAJARDO FLORES MARTINEZ.

v. DIEGO DE LOS SANTOS COY.

6. vi. ANA MARIA DE LA CERDA COY, d. 1707.

vii. BERNARDO DE LOS SANTOS COY, m. JUANA DE CEPEDA.

viii. CATALINA LOS SANTOS COY, m. (1) FRANCISCO SALAZAR TREVINO; m. (2)
LORENZO GUTIERREZ GARCIA; b. 1600.

Generation No. 4

4. PEDRO COY DE4 LOS SANTOS (BERNARDO DE LOS SANTOS3 COY, BERNARDO DE LOS
SANTOS2, JUAN1 DE CALIS) He married FRANCISA TREVINO MORALES.

Child of PEDRO LOS SANTOS and FRANCISA MORALES is:

i. PEDRO COY5 DE LOS SANTOS, b. 1662; m. MARGARITA MARTINES DE LA GARZA
FALCON, May 04, 1681; b. 1662.

5. NICOLAS DE LOS SANTOS4 COY (BERNARDO DE LOS SANTOS3, BERNARDO DE LOS
SANTOS2, JUAN1 DE CALIS) was born 1645 in Coahuila, Mexico. He married ANA
MARIA GUERRA.

Child of NICOLAS COY and ANA GUERRA is:

i. MARIA JOSEFA SANTOS5 COY, b. 1712; m. BLAS MARIA VILLARREAL DE LA GARZA
FALCON, Abt 1745; b. 1712, Real de las Salinas, Nuevo Leon , Mexico; d.
1767, Camargo, Mexico.

6. ANA MARIA DE LA CERDA4 COY (BERNARDO DE LOS SANTOS3, BERNARDO DE LOS
SANTOS2, JUAN1 DE CALIS) died 1707. She married DIEGO FERNANDEZ DE CASTRO.
He was born 1623 in Alferez Real Diego FERNANDEZ CASTRO, and died April 18,
1672.

Child of ANA COY and DIEGO DE CASTRO is:

i. JOSEFA FERNANDEZ5 CASTRO, b. 1652.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leticia Leon"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ramirez De Coy

Hi! I have no clue, yet.
I am waiting for Lic. Mariano Gonzalez-Leal next edition of "Retonos de
España en la Nueva Galicia", it will contain my ancestors.
My guess is "Ramirez De Coy" was converted to "De Cos" maybe during a
procedure to claim a royal benefit. Merely an especulation on my part.
Ramirez De Coy is a surname that arrived to Silao in a group of hidalgos
which is equivalent to knight

It seems surname "De Leon" suddenly started been used as "De Cos Y Leon"

Here an extract from an e-mail from Don Mariano to me:

I am not a good translator.

My ancestor Miguel De Leon was born in Silao, Gto. on may 20, 1688, son of
Jose De Leon and Gerónima Ramírez De Coy, his paternal grandparents were
Juan De Leon and María De Escapa originals from Aragón, Spain.

There is a web site related to surname Ramírez De Coy it is
www.abuelos.com if I recall correctly.

Hope answers arrive soon.

Jan Jaeckle escribió:

Hi Leticia,

I noticed your correspondence included a reference to a forebear with the
name "de Coy." Do you know anything about the name?

I have an ancestor with that name, a female, Catalina Gomez de Coy married
to Juan de Caliz, living in Lepe, Spain, very south, near Portugal. They
lived in the late 1500's. Their son immigrated to New Spain & gave his name
as Bernardo de los Santos Coy. The name persists in south Texas.

One Mexican author I read was of the opinion that the name was from the
Scottish McCoy, introduced into Spain by a traveler coming to visit the
grave of Santiago.

I would appreciate anything you might know.

---------------------------------

¡Sé un mejor besador!
Comparte todo lo que sabes sobre besos en:
http://mx.yahoo.com/promos/mejorbesador.html

Ramirez De Coy

Comment

Hi Leticia,

Around 1600 there was Juan Ramírez de Coy living in Queretaro, married to Maria de Espindola. They had 3 children: Catalina (1599), Francisco (1607) and Jose (1613).

There was also a Catalina de Espindola who married Jorge de Villafuerte and had at least two daughters born in Queretaro: Antonia (1629) and Francisca (1640).

That information appears in the Vital Records Index.

Regards,
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:17:14 -0500> From: marionicia@yahoo.com.mx> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ramirez De Coy> > Hi! I have no clue, yet. > I am waiting for Lic. Mariano Gonzalez-Leal next edition of "Retonos de España en la Nueva Galicia", it will contain my ancestors. > My guess is "Ramirez De Coy" was converted to "De Cos" maybe during a procedure to claim a royal benefit. Merely an especulation on my part. Ramirez De Coy is a surname that arrived to Silao in a group of hidalgos which is equivalent to knight> > It seems surname "De Leon" suddenly started been used as "De Cos Y Leon"> > Here an extract from an e-mail from Don Mariano to me:> > "Silao fue en el Virreinato asiento de importantes actividades> agrícolas, que> atrajeron numerosas familias españolas nobles, cuyas probanzas son válidas> para las Órdenes Nobiliarias españolas, por ejemplo los Jasso, Ponce> de> León, Arguello, Fernández de Bobadilla, Fernández de Sousa, Franco de> Escalante, Olazabalegui, Sáenz de Tagle, Muñatones de la Sierra,> Cervantes-Rendon, Ramírez de Coy, de la Gasea, etcétera.> Como la mayor parte de las fundaciones españolas, Silao perdió> importancia> con la independencia. En el siglo XIX y a partrir de la guerra de> independencia comenzó a rezagarse, y mucho peor después de la> revolución de> 1910."> > I am not a good translator.> > My ancestor Miguel De Leon was born in Silao, Gto. on may 20, 1688, son of Jose De Leon and Gerónima Ramírez De Coy, his paternal grandparents were Juan De Leon and María De Escapa originals from Aragón, Spain. > > There is a web site related to surname Ramírez De Coy it is www.abuelos.com if I recall correctly.> > Hope answers arrive soon.> > > > > Jan Jaeckle escribió:> > Hi Leticia,> > I noticed your correspondence included a reference to a forebear with the name "de Coy." Do you know anything about the name?> > I have an ancestor with that name, a female, Catalina Gomez de Coy married to Juan de Caliz, living in Lepe, Spain, very south, near Portugal. They lived in the late 1500's. Their son immigrated to New Spain & gave his name as Bernardo de los Santos Coy. The name persists in south Texas.> > One Mexican author I read was of the opinion that the name was from the Scottish McCoy, introduced into Spain by a traveler coming to visit the grave of Santiago.> > I would appreciate anything you might know.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > ¡Sé un mejor besador!> Comparte todo lo que sabes sobre besos en:> http://mx.yahoo.com/promos/mejorbesador.html> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Ramírez de Coy Espíndola

Comment

Hola a todos:

Estoy revisando este nodo antiguo y es necesario aclarar lo siguiente:

Juan Ramírez de Coy y María de Espíndola tuvieron más de diez hijos, no tres.

Su hija Catalina Ramírez Espíndola se casó con Matheo Sánchez, pero Juan tuvo otra hija mulata con el mismo nombre que se casó con Jorge de Villafuerte y era cuando menos 10 años menor que su media hermana.

Juan y María son mis abuelos décimos.

Saludos

Marcelina Macías

Batch Numbers for respective Film Numbers

Comment

Leticia and others,

Yes, the name Santos Coy is still in So. Texas. There is information on Bernardo, who became prominent in the Nuevo Santander area. I have run into his name in the family center that has information on settlers in Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas.

Juanita

Jan Jaeckle wrote:
Hi Leticia,

I noticed your correspondence included a reference to a forebear with the name "de Coy." Do you know anything about the name?

One Mexican author I read was of the opinion that the name was from the Scottish McCoy, introduced into Spain by a traveler coming to visit the grave of Santiago.

I would appreciate anything you might know.

Thanks, Jan Jaeckle

In fact that date was giving to me by Lic Mariano Gonzalez-Leal in reference to his so much expected book, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia (II) which will have my De Cos Y Leon surname.

My 8th. ancestor, Miguel De Leon Y Ramírez De Coy was baptized that date in Silao. his grandpha Juan De Leon was born in Aragon, Spain.

conrique escribió:

I do have 6 Batch Numbers/Film#s for the Santiago Apostol Parish in Neutla (ranging from 1719 to 1843) - - - if it is the same - - - that I can provide you, if they relate to your search.

Saludos,

Efrain

Batch Numbers for respective Film Numbers

Comment

Thank you Efraín. If you need any name checking in the films I have on loan I can do it, already are listed in the films section of the group.

Recently, like three months ago a FHC has been stablished in Tijuana, B. C. and I made my first order. It is open tuesday and thrusday from 6 to 9 pm and sunday from 9 to 9.

God! I used to make a trolley and bus trip for 2 hrs 15 min from San Ysidro to Mission Valley and back. I don´t drive. My ancestors made that trip also for sure!

conrique escribió:

I do have 6 Batch Numbers/Film#s for the Santiago Apostol Parish in Neutla (ranging from 1719 to 1843) - - - if it is the same - - - that I can provide you, if they relate to your search.

Saludos,

Efrain

Familia Molina y Quintana en Zacatecas

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hola a todos los genealogistas:

Familia Arriaga en Querétaro

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hola a todos los genealogistas:

Padrones for San Martín de Hidalgo, Cocula, Ameca, or Zacoalco de Torres?

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hi, I would like to know if there are any padrones (census) for the towns of San Martín de Hidalgo (also known as San Martín de la Cal), Cocula, Ameca, or Zacoalco de Torres.

Comments

Padrones for Zacoalco de Torres

Comment

Here are the padrones for Zacoalco de Torres, Jalisco.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-1993-KB?i=4&wc=3JXT-JWL%3A…

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-PLS7-B4?i=1&wc=3JXH-3TL%3A…

Guadalajara Matrimonios

Comment

There is an entry for my maternal GGGG grandfather Ignacio Delgadillo in the following location:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-4495-8?cc=1874591&wc=1…
which begins on image 164 with a couple torn/pasted pages and continues to image 174 on the left page. I understand there was an issue with infidelity and separation of several years but cannot find a final disposition, I saw the term 'desavenencia' toward the end but not sure if the marriage was dissolved.
Any light on the issue is greatly appreciated.

Sancha Velasco de Lacarra

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hola estimados compañeros,

Comments

Velasco's Carillo ancestry

Comment

The Carillo ancestry of the Velasco family is a little confusing as one line with the title holder ends without children, or sons, (depending on how you interpret it) so a nephew takes a title. This nephew is married to a cousin so branches of the Carillo family are joined, but genealogists have confused the lines and provide different trees. Second marriages within the family also helped confuse the lines. A will where a great grandfather is listed helps straighten out the confusing lines. I have straightened out some of the confusion, but am still collecting and sorting primary data to solidify the lines.

There is descent from Eleanor of Aquitane but it is through the wife of the nephew that inherits the title. The wife is a cousin to her husband as they are both Carillos. This wife s ancestry and her husbands is often confused by genealogists as they confuse son in law with son.

Pedro Hernandez de Velasco descent from Garcia Gomez Carillo

Comment

6). Garcia Gomez de Carillo.Señor de Ormasa y Mazuelo, (d.1312) + Elvira Alvarez de Osorio

7). Sancha Garcia Carillo y Osorio + Sancho Sanchez de Velasco I señor de Medina y Pomar, adelantado mayor de Castilla

8). Fernan Sanchez de Velasco (b. 1307, d.1347) + Mayor Juana G

9). Pedro Fernandez de Velasco ( y Castañeda) III Señor de Medina y Pomar (b. 1335, d.1384) [ Pedro is married to Maria Sarmiento but she is not the mother of two of his sons, #10Pedro Hernandez de Velasco and Sancho Sanchez de Velasco.]

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

10). Pedro Hernandez de Velasco [Pedro is married to Isabel de Agüero y Ochoa de Ceballos. I do not know if his son Sancho is from this marriage] [this Pedro inherited property from his father that his father's legitimate wife, Maria Sarmiento, did not want to give up.] {this Pedro was not as stable financially as his brother Sancho Sanchez de Velasco, or his legitimate half siblings. Pedro's inheritance was tied up in court for many years and it was only because his half sibling, Juan Fernandez de Velasco y Sarmiento, was on his side in the dispute, that he was able to get his inheritance. Juan handled the lawsuit against Juan's mother, Maria Sarmiento. Pedro's full brother, Sancho Sanchez de Velasco was also involved in a lawsuit as a representative for their half brother Juan Fernandez de Velasco y Sarmiento. Sancho was in the service of Juan. Pedro eventually ended having some of his property inherited by his son, Sancho Sanchez de Velasco "el comendador", who sold it to his cousin Pedro Fernandez de Velasco y Solier, I Conde de Haro (son of Juan Fernandez de Velasco y Sarmiento and Maria de Solíer, Sra. de Villalpando)

{A document identifies Sancho Sanchez de Velasco "el comendador" (#11) as a Cousin to Pedro Velasco Solier, Conde de Haro making him a grandson of Pedro Fernandez de Velasco ( y Castañeda) III Señor de Medina y Pomar (#9), I had originally believed that Sancho Sanchez de Velasco el comendador was the son of #10Pedro Hernandez de Velasco's brother, Sancho Sanchez de Velasco.}

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
11). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco, "el Comendador" + ?

12). Sancha Sanchez de Velasco + Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño (d.1523)

13). Diego Velasco de Temiño, alcaide de Temiño (d.1530) + Maria Francisca Alcocer de Bañuelos

14). Mariana "Ana" Velasco de Temiño (d.1580) + Pedro Pacheco de Rodriguez (d.1545)

15). Angela de Velasco (b.1542) Diego Flores de la Torre, Capitan, (d.1609)

16). Diego Flores de la Torre y Velasco (d. 1638) + Beatriz de Anda Altamirano y Gonzalez Castañeda

17). Diego Flores de la Torre y de Anda Altamirano (d.1653) + Isabel de Arias y Orosco

18). Diego Flores de la Torre y Arias de Orosco (d.1684) + Teresa González de Hermosillo

19). Juana Flores de la Torre y González de Hermosillo (b.abt 1655), (d.9/Nov/1714) + Tòmas Martin del Campo y Lopez de la Cruz (b.abt 1652), (d.before 19/Oct/1710)

My wife and I repeatedly descend from Tòmas Martin del Campo y Lopez de la Cruz (b.abt 1652), (d.before 19/Oct/1710) and Juana Flores de la Torre y Gonzalez de H.

Source: mygenes2000, R.A.Ricci

Uncle not father.

Comment

Sancho Sanchez el comendador is the son of Pedro de Velasco, half brother of Juan de Velasco y Sarmiento. I do not have the name of Sancho Sanchez de Velasco's mother. The Sancho Sanchez that I had believed was his father is his uncle. In order for the comendador to be a cousin, he had to descend from one of the two brothers. Further research revealed that he does not descend from Sancho Sanchez de Velasco which leaves him to be the son of Pedro. I do have a wife for this Pedro but I don't know if Sancho.Sanchez el comendador is legitimate or illegitimate. If Sancho is legitimate then he is a younger born son. I do have more information of the eldest born son.

I am sorry for having stated that his uncle was his father,

There are many men named Sancho Sanchez which has made the search for "Sancho Sanchez el comendador" a lengthy one. Secondary sources served to add confusion to the search. Looking only at the information from primary sources provides a different picture than the picture that we get from combining primary and secondary sources, so we need to ignore secondary sources.

Both "Sancho Sanchez el comendador" and "Sancho Sanchez Señor de Arnedo" have fathers named Pedro Fernandez de Velasco. It is easy to see how these men have been confused since both Sancho's have the same name, and both Sancho's have fathers with the same name. They are also very closely related. Sancho Sanchez el comendador's grandfather is the great grandfather of Sancho Sanchez Señor de Arnedo.

Some genealogist misread a document and state that Pedro is legitimate but the evidence clearly shows that he was an illegitimate son and that his inheritance was half of a property that he shared with the legitimate wife of his father. This inheritance caused many problems as she did not want to share ownership of this property with his husband's illegitimate sons. A long battle over ownership of said property provides evidence that he is not her son.

///////////////////////////////,

Sancho de Velasco comendador de Castroverde, Cousin to Pedro Velasco Solier, Conde de Haro.

Juan de Velasco and Maria Solier are the parents of Pedro Fernandez de Velasco (y Solier) 1 Conde de Haro

//////////////////////////////

1). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco + Sancha Carillo

2). Fernan Sanchez de Velasco + Mayor de Castañeda

3). Pedro Fernandez de Velasco + Maria Sarmiento

4). Juan De Velasco (y Sarmiento) Maria Solier

5). Pedro Fernandez de Velasco, ( y Solier) + 1 Conde de Haro + Beatriz Manrique de Lara y Castilla

6). Sancho Fernandez de Velasco, Señor de Arnedo + Maria Enriquez de Lacarra

///////////////////////////////,

1). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco + Sancha Carillo

2). Fernan Sanchez de Velasco + Mayor de Castañeda

3). Pedro Fernandez de Velasco ( Pedro is married to Maria Sarmiento but she is not #4 Sancho's mother)

4). Pedro Velasco ("hijo natural", full brother to a Sancho Sanchez de Velasco, half bother to Juan De Velasco y Sarmiento

5). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco, comendador (The comendador is named a cousin to Pedro Fernandez de Velasco, son of Juan de Velasco y Sarmiento) they are actually half first cousins.

6). Sancha Sanchez de Velasco + Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño

Rick A. Ricci

El comendador Sancho de Velasco

Comment

Comunmente no se le llamaba Comendador a Don Sancho de Velasco (Sr de Arnedo) pero en funciones si lo era, ya que recibio en "encomienda" una villa llamada Villaporquera, años despues cuando murio Don Sancho los vecinos pidieron ya no ser encomienda. Esta informacion se encuentra en PARES, archivo Real Cancillería de los Reyes de Castilla. Registro del Sello de Corte.
Otro documento de cuyo contenido completo no conosco pero me parece interesante y que se encuentra en PARES es el siguinte: "Carta de finiquito que dieron Alonso Ruiz y su mujer, a favor de Sancho de Velasco, dada en Tremiño a 31 del mes de mayo de 1460."
¿Quien será este Alonso Ruiz?

Need for more research

Comment

I posted the the information Sancho Velasco el comendador based on a combination of primary and secondary sources. The problem is that secondary sources available to me have different information. Because of this I am not 100% sure If the line is correct. If the primary source on the comendador is correct, then Sancho Sanchez de Velasco el comendador is the son of either Sancho Sanchez de Velasco or his brother Pedro de Velasco. Both of these brothers are illegitimate brothers of Juan Fernandez de Velasco (y Sarmiento). Putting the information together from some secondary sources pointed to a descent from Sancho Sanchez de Velasco. But if Luis de Salazar y Castro's line of descent is correct then the comendador does not descend from Sancho.

Luis de Salazar y Castro mentions Sancho Sanchez de Velasco but erroneously names his mother as Maria Sarmiento, which would make him a full brother. Numerous primary documents clearly show that Sancho and Pedro are not sons of Maria Sarmiento and that they are born out of wedlock. Luis de Salazar y Castro Cites a document that names them as brothers. The document is correct that they are brothers but other primary sources are more specific and show they "brothers from a different mother."

Luis de Salazar y Castro Also gives a line of descent for Sancho Sanchez de Velasco that does not seem right. I need to study it more before I explain all the difficulties with his line of descent. I repeat, if Luis de Salazar y Castro's line of descent is correct, which I find doubtful, then Sancho De Velasco el comendador does not descend from the Sancho De Velasco, half brother of Juan de Velasco y Sarmiento. If this were so, then the only line of descent possible would be from Pedro de Velasco, the other half brother of Juan de Velasco y Sarmiento.

I am hoping that putting this information on this website will spur someone to research this family and help confirm or disprove the lines of descent that I have posted. Using my notes and sources would lead to my same conclusions. I am hoping that someone will research this from a different angle and hopefully come up with new sources.
R.A. Ricci

Primary source vs. historians clarification

Comment

///////////////////////////////,

Sancho de Velasco comendador de Castroverde, Cousin to Pedro Velasco Solier, Conde de Haro.

Juan de Velasco and Maria Solier are the parents of Pedro Fernandez de Velasco (y Solier) 1 Conde de Haro

//////////////////////////////

1). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco + Sancha Carillo

2). Fernan Sanchez de Velasco + Mayor de Castañeda

3). Pedro Fernandez de Velasco + Maria Sarmiento

4). Juan De Velasco (y Sarmiento) Maria Solier

5). Pedro Fernandez de Velasco, ( y Solier) + 1 Conde de Haro + Beatriz Manrique de Lara y Castilla

6). Sancho Fernandez de Velasco, Señor de Arnedo + Maria Enriquez de Lacarra

///////////////////////////////,

1). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco + Sancha Carillo

2). Fernan Sanchez de Velasco + Mayor de Castañeda

3). Pedro Fernandez de Velasco ( Pedro is married to Maria Sarmiento but she is not #4 Sancho's mother)

4). Sancho Velasco (hijo natural, named in a big legal dispute)

5). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco, comendador (The comendador is named a cousin to Pedro Fernandez de Velasco)

6). Sancha Sanchez de Velasco + Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño

////////////////////////////////////////

However, an historian a long time ago wrote that he felt that even though the document says they are cousins, there was an added generation on Sancho Sanchez "el comendador"'s part between #'s 4 and 5. That added generation would be Diego Sanchez de Velasco. He did not write out the whole tree but stated that el comendador is really a nephew. If he was correct then the tree would look like this:

1). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco + Sancha Carillo

2). Fernan Sanchez de Velasco + Mayor de Castañeda

3). Pedro Fernandez de Velasco ( Pedro is married to Maria Sarmiento but she is not #4 Sancho's mother)

4). Sancho Velasco (hijo natural, named in a big legal dispute)

5). Diego Sanchez de Velasco

6). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco, comendador

7.) Sancha Sanchez de Velasco + Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño

What we do know is that the comendador was the either the son or the grandson of #4Sancho De Velasco, the natural son of Pedro Fernandez de Velasco (and not his wife Maria Sarmiento). #4Sancho is mentioned in his father's will and in his half brother, Juan Velascos will. He also is in the service of his half brother Juan de Velasco. #4Sancho is also named in a big court case in which he is representing Juan de Velasco's interest.

It depends on whether you believe the primary source document that names him as a cousin, or the historian that believes that there should be an added generation which makes his father the half first cousin and him a nephew of Pedro Fernandez de Velasco. He believed that the confusion came about because of the illegitimate status of #4Sancho Sanchez de Velasco.
Source: Mygenes2000 by R.A.Ricci

Alfonso Ruiz de Temino

Comment

Mr. Ricci,

Do you know who the parents are of Alfonso Ruiz de Temino?

Danny C. Alonso

Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño and Sancho de Velasco

Comment

Dear Danny,

I have not confirmed the identity of the parents of Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño. I have been researching the family and I have many sources to check before presenting my research on his ancestors. I will say that although I have not found evidence that Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño used the title "Señor de Bureba", I believe that he most likely descends from the señores de Bureba and that is why he may have been referred to as such by some genealogists. So Leon is right that we haven't found him with a title of nobility.

There is a big mistake in Wikipedia. They have Sancho de Velasco as the son of Maria Sarmiento. He was not her son. He was illegitimate and did work for his half brother, Juan de Velasco (y Sarmiento). All primary sources are clear that Sancho is not the son of Maria Sarmiento.

The genealogist Luis de Salazar y Castro erroneously claimed that Sancho Sanchez de Velasco was a son of Maria Sarmiento. Many people see the family tree that he put together and assume that it is correct. That is not the only mistake that he makes on this line. There was another half brother of Juan de Velasco named Pedro de Velasco. Luis de Salazar y Castro does not name him. The descent of Sancho is also off as it jumps a few decades. It is obviously missing at least one generation.

R.A. Ricci

Sancha Sanchez de Velasco

Comment

The people who were holding out hope that Sancho Sánchez de Velasco and María Enríquez de Lacarra are the paternal grandparents of Sancha Sanchez de Velasco married to Alfonso Ruiz de Temino will be disappointed to find out that her father, Sancho Sanchez de Velasco, el comendador, has been proven to be from another branch of the family.

But genealogy is a science. When we get additional information, we need to use that information to help us in our research. Sometimes genealogists, myself included, find information that changes the direction of our research. Instead of being disappointed, we need to embrace the new information since our search is for the truth. The search is always for the truth, otherwise hours of research are a waste of time. A fake family tree can be made with much less effort and time. And a fake family tree isn't worth the paper it is written on. The effort and hours of research are only worth it if we are seeking the truth. Any additional information provided for our research is always welcome.

R.A.Ricci

Sancho Sanchez de Velasco el comendador

Comment

.
A primary source states that the comendador is a first cousin to Pedro Fernandez de Velasco so the comendador and Pedro Fernandez de Velasco y Solier. This means that they have the same grandfather.

It depends on whether you believe the primary source document that names him as a cousin, or the historian that believes that there should be an added generation which makes his father the half first cousin and him a nephew of Pedro Fernandez de Velasco. The confusion may be because of the illegitimate status of Sancho Sanchez de Velasco and Pedro Velasco.

What we do know is that the comendador was the either the son or the grandson of Sancho Sanchez De Velasco or Pedro de Velasco the natural sons of Pedro Fernandez de Velasco (and not his wife Maria Sarmiento). Sancho and Pedro are mentioned in his father's will and in their half brother, Juan Velasco's will. They also are in the service of their half brother Juan de Velasco. Sancho is also named in a big court case in which he is representing Juan de Velasco's interest.

Both Genealogists Luis de Salazar y Castro and Luis Vilar y Pascual did not have Sancho Sanchez de Velasco el comendador as a descendant of Sancho Sanchez de Velasco, the half brother of Juan De Velasco y Solier. Both Luis de Salazar y Castro and Luis Vilar y Pascual have mistakes in the family trees that they have constructed for Sancho Sanchez de Velasco. Luis de Salazar y Castro mistakes that he is a full brother and Luis Vilar y Pascual has a mistake for his wife. I can explain the most likely reasons for why they made these mistakes. I can not explain why they don't include Sancho Sanchez el comendador in their lines of descent.

If their lines of descent are correct then Sancho Sanchez de Velasco el comendador must descend from Pedro de Velasco, the other half brother. Not much of this half brother is known to me at this moment except that he was also in the service of his half brother Juan de Velasco y Sarmiento and that he did not receive his full inheritance because Juan de Velascos mother also lay claim to it and she did not want to give it to the illegitimate son of her husband. It was supposed to have been split, half for her and half for Pedro.

/////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////,

1). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco + Sancha Carillo

2). Fernan Sanchez de Velasco + Mayor de Castañeda

3). Pedro Fernandez de Velasco ( Pedro is married to Maria Sarmiento but she is not #4 Sancho's mother)

4). Question is which brother, Sancho de Velasco or Pedro de Velasco, (both hijos naturales, They are named in a big legal disputes between their half brother Juan de Velasco y Sarmiento and his mother.)

5). Sancho Sanchez de Velasco, comendador (The comendador is named a cousin to Pedro Fernandez de Velasco)

6). Sancha Sanchez de Velasco + Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño

Sancho Velasco comendador de Castroverde

Comment

Sancho de Velasco comendador de Castroverde, Cousin to Pedro Velasco Solier, Conde de Haro.

Juan de Velasco and Maria Solier are the parents of Pedro Velasco Solier

Piece by piece the puzzle comes together. Slowly at times, but every little piece that we add brings us closer to completing the puzzle.

R.A. Ricci

Searching for Sancho Velasco el comendador

Comment

Dear Leon de Tejada and Enrique Salvador Agraz Villarrea,

Thank you for clarifying that Sancho Velasco el comendador and Sancho Velasco el Señor de Arnedo are not the same person. Because of your statements, I dropped what I was working on and focused my energy on trying to find out more information on Sancho Velasco el comendador.

Though I have not yet found answers to our questions on Sancho Velasco el comendador, I discovered Isabel Mendoza (Velasco) the half sister to the Virrey (2nd Viceroy). For me personally, this was a bigger find then actually finding Sancho Velasco since I had been looking for an " Isabel Mendoza" that matched all the clues for about four decades.

We do have leads since he is called a cousin, we just need to find out what degree cousin. Once we find out where he was comendador, then we can focus our energy on documents in that area to see if we can find out more about him. I need to go back to working on what I had been working on before, but will go back to looking for Sancho Velasco el comendador when I finish my current projects.

Thanks again,
R.A. Ricci

Sancha Velasco de Lacarra

Comment

The last time that I commented on my Sancha Velasco de Lacarra findings I was accused of riding the tailcoats on the discussion so I won't repeat all of the documentation. Yes, our Sancha Velasco de Lacarra is the one that is an ancestor to the temino de Velasco. And it is through this line that there is a clear why : " Uno de los hijos de Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño y de Sancha de Velasco tomó el nombre de Pedro Gómez de Velasco".

The problem is the evidence is in the inquisition records of the judeo converso part of the family. Anyone refusing to believe that we have judeo converso ancestors will avoid looking at these records which actually lead back to royalty like the Fernandez de Hijar or Velasco lines. Besides descent from Enrique Ii of Castile,there is repeated descent from Portuguese kings, Aragon kings, and Sancho Iv of Castile. There is also a line of descent from English royalty. I will document these lines in my book.

R.A.. Ricci

Dudas

Comment

Para mí hasta que no haya evidencia en vez de promesas y documentos perdidos y ocultos seguimos en la misma.

Nadie me ha podido contestar hasta la fecha lo siguiente: El padre de Sancha de Velasco fue el Comendador Sancho Sánchez de Velasco (nunca se menciona a la madre). ¿Comendador de dónde? ¿A qué orden de Caballería pertenecía?

Veamos. Si Sancha es la supuesta hija de Sancho Fernández de Velasco, Señor de Arnedo y de María Enríquez de Lacarra...

¿Por qué en el único documento que muestra la filiación de Sancha como hija del Comendador Sancho de Velasco (Comisión sobre la herencia del comendador Sancho de Velasco. 1491-9-30 Burgos) NO aparecen Antonio de Velasco y Enríquez de Lacarra, Conde Consorte de Nieva, Francisca y Ana de Velasco y Lacarra entre la gente que pelea por la herencia? En teoría son hermanos de Sancha ¿Dónde están?

Me parece raro que en el pleito de la herencia del Comendador Sancho no aparezca NI UN Velasco y Enríquez de Lacarra ni se mencione a Arnedo.

Los que aparecen en estos dos documentos relativos a la herencia del Comendador Sancho Sánchez de Velasco son los hijos de Sancha de Velasco y de Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño, mencionan a María de Setién esposa de Rodrigo de Velasco, a un Antonio de Velasco, vecino de Villegas (Burgos) y es todo.

Hago notar que Antonio de Velasco y Lacarra, Conde Consorte de Nieva, Señor de Arnedo NO aparece como vecino de Villegas (Burgos), los documentos de la época lo sitúan en su señorío, Arnedo, La Rioja y explícitamente mencionan que es "Señor de Arnedo". El que aparece en el pleito no, algo que es altamente inusual.

Vuelvo a lo mismo ¿Por qué en el pleito por la herencia del comendador Sancho no están los Velasco y Enríquez de Lacarra?

Enrique, por esto y más tengo dudas en este tema. ¿Por qué hacen al Comendador Sancho Sánchez de Velasco y al Señor de Arnedo Sancho Fernández de Velasco la misma persona? No he visto en documentos que mencionen al Comendador como Señor de Arnedo y este último tampoco es mencionado como Comendador.

Si tienes alguna idea o información firme que afirme o contradiga lo escrito te lo agradeceré mucho.

Sancha de Velasco

Comment

Estimado Erik,

Te agradezco la excelente aclaración acerca de lo que hasta ahora sabemos de la filiación de Sancha de Velasco.

Me parece muy viable tu teoría en la que Pedro Gómez de Velasco estaría relacionado con Sancha de Velasco, primero por el hecho de que mencionas que uno de los hijos de Sancha utilizó el mismo nombre y segundo porque los documentos relativos a la herencia del comendador Sancho Sánchez de Velasco, padre de Sancha, citan a un Antonio de Velasco vecino de Villegas (Burgos), región en la que Pedro Gómez de Velasco se había asentado antes.

Como ya has argumentado hasta ahora no hay razones para fusionar al Comendador con el Señor de Arnedo en una misma persona. Estos títulos que se utilizaron distintamente son los que nos están ayudando a dirigir el curso de las investigaciones, además de tomar en cuenta a las personas que participaron en el pleito de herencia del Comendador.

No he estudiado profundamente a esta familia por lo que me reservo a aportar nuevas hipótesis pero ten por seguro que si llegase a encontrar información valiosa en el tema lo haré saber debidamente.

Enrique Agraz

Sancho de Velasco - Fechas

Comment

Estimado Enrique,

Gracias a ti, volver a sacar estos temas es importante porque siempre hay la posibilidad de encontrar información nueva y nos permite comparar datos.

Con lo siguiente podemos cerrar el asunto del Comendador y del Señor de Arnedo:

1) Sancho Fernández de Velasco, Señor de Arnedo. Esposo de María Enríquez de Lacarra. Otorgó su último testamento el 23 de Febrero de 1493 en Valladolid.

2) La comisión sobre la herencia del comendador Sancho de Velasco (padre de Sancha) es del 30 de Septiembre de 1491 en Villadiego, Burgos.

El comendador Sancho Sánchez de Velasco murió antes de 1491, fecha en la que todavía estaba vivo el Señor de Arnedo (muerto no antes de 1493). NO son la misma persona y podemos entonces desechar la teoría de Sancha Velasco de Lacarra.

Creo que lo más sano y centrado sería buscar entre los hermanos del I Conde de Haro.

Aquí hay algo curioso: En el manuscrito del Linaje de Bañuelos que hace Salazar y Castro (que como sabemos miembros de esta familia enlazan con nuestros Temiño) está escrito que Antón Ruiz de Bañuelos, natural de Salas de Bureba, en el testamento que otorgó en 1434 menciona que su hija María de Velasco está en casa de don Pedro de Velasco, Conde de Haro, su tío. Hay que tomar esto con cuidado pero creo que podría ser una pista a seguir respecto a los grados familiares que había respecto a los Temiño, los Bañuelos y los Velasco.

Un abrazo,

P.s. Revisé los testamentos que están en línea (PARES) de Sancho de Velasco, Señor de Arnedo (1482, 1490, 1493) y no encontré mención de Sancha ni de los Temiño ni de María de Setién. Aunque no tenga relevancia para el tema en cuestión mencionan a Pedro de Puelles quien vendió Davalillos y San Asensio a su esposa María Enríquez de Lacarra. (Pedro era hermano de Diego de Puelles y Ponce de León, bisabuelo de Juan de Puelles y Sanz, el que pasó a Zacatecas y dejó descendencia en Nueva Galicia).

Hola! a todos

Comment

me dirijo al Señor R.A.. Ricci para pedirle de favor me informe cuando haya terminado su libro , para comprar un ejemplar ya sea que me diga en donde comprarlo o me indique la vía a seguir .

Sancha Sancez de Velascos father, el comendador

Comment

There is conflicting information on Sanchas father. There seems to be multiple relationships between the Ruiz, banuelos and velasco families and that seems to be the source of the confusion.

There is a Sancha Sanchez de Velasco that is a granddaughter, the source that names her uncle should have read "tio abuelo" instead of tio. Under this scenario she still descends from the Sanchez enriquez Lacarra but with an added generation.but there are other possibilities,

One of the problems that people may have in looking for the correct family tree is that they don't have much experience in the naming practices of the Iberian peninsula in the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries. The naming practices were not consistent from one area to another. Naming practices in Castile, Basque, and Portuguese regions differed. Naming practices weren't always consistent even in the same region. If you look only at genealogical tables that are found in books you often find generations over centuries using the same surname. This practice by genealogists giving people surnames that they never used has made it at times more difficult when looking for primary sources.
One important naming practice would be a persons first name, followed by a second name, a surname that could be a surname passed down or it could be the fathers first name transformed into a surname, the third name would be the persons home town or or a word identifying a landmark as to where they are from, or the surname could be title of an ancestor. Sometimes the whole name was just a complete copy of an ancestors name, the ancestor could have been someone from a few generations back. But in order to unravel family trees, it is important to learn all of the different naming practices and to always look for clues.
Many times the person will use different variations of the same name An example would be "Sancho Temino de Vaelasco was actually Sancho Sanchez Velasco de Temino with "Sancho Sanchez" being the name of an ancestor or his father name also being Sancho, The surname Vealsco being the name of a title being passed down as a surname, and Temino being the surname indicating where the family was from at one time. With the moving from one town to another the surname indicating where they were from sometimes changed to indicate a new town or landmark but sometimes it remained the same despite moving from one region to another.

There was a Ruiz de velasco branch of the family, other branches of the family were "Ruiz Gomez de Velsaco". "Ruiz de Carillo de Velasco". There was also a Velasco branch that married into the Rojas family that also had Sanchos and Sanchas. The key clue for finding Sancho Sanchez de Velasco de Temino's ancestry is to remember that is called a cousin and his daughter a niece to the Fernandez Velascos that they are involved with in a dispute. He may not be a first cousin, even though it only says primo, and not primo segundo.

Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño, señor de Bureba , according to naming practices could have been a Velasco but dropped the Velasco when he became señor de Bureba. So he could have been named Alfonso Ruiz Velasco de Temino.

Another example of these naming practices not always being consistent is : " Uno de los hijos de Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño y de Sancha de Velasco tomó el nombre de Pedro Gómez de Velasco". This could be a giant clue to unraveling the different relationships between the Ruiz, banuelos, Velascos, and Fernandez de Velascos.

R.A.Ricci

Sancha de Velasco

Comment

Estimado Enrique,

Eso francamente me parecen tonterías y creo saber a qué sitio te refieres. Lamentablemente son sitios en los cuales cualquier persona puede colocar datos y hacer de las investigaciones un reverendo desastre. Yo puse hasta Alfonso y Sancha (sin sus padres) en ese mismo sitio pero algún individuo puso que Alfonso era "Señor de Bureba" lo cual es absolutamente erróneo. NUNCA usó ese título y esa misma persona debió de haber sido quien los conectó con los de Arnedo.

A mi no me convence lo del señorío de Arnedo, me parece muy forzado y hasta la fecha no hay evidencia. Hay una rama de los Velasco menos conocida que pasó a Burgos con un Pedro Gómez de Velasco y eso lo escribí antes. Toma esto en consideración: Uno de los hijos de Alfonso Ruiz de Temiño y de Sancha de Velasco tomó el nombre de Pedro Gómez de Velasco. Esto lo evidenció también uno de los grandes que ha dejado un vacío enorme: Guillermo Tovar de Teresa.

¿Coincidencia? ¿Qué opinas?

LdT

FRANCISCA DE NARVAEZ & the Sanchez de la Mejorada of Sierra de Pinos

Forums

Genealogy Research

The Genealogy of Francisca de Narváez
28 Oct 1654 - 4 Apr 1739

Comments

Sanchez de la Mejorada

Comment

.
in my lineage my ancestor Francisco Mendez was married Maria Guadalupe Sanchez de la Mejorada in in July 1795 in Tamazula, Jalisco.. her grandparents were Antonio Sanchez de la Mejorada and Ana Josefa Martinez y Lepe from Tuxpan, Jalisco. his estimated date of birth is abt 1680.
He and Ana Josefa had 10 children that I have found. They are born from abt 1701 to 1725.
My files are on Rootsweb.com under Mexico and you can check the index for the surname I do have to wonder if they are related your your line of Sanchez de la Mejorada since I can't seem to find them or where they came from.
Thank you for sharing such detailed files and work
Linda Castanon-Long

Sanchez de la Mejorada

Comment

Hi Linda,

Thanks for you comment. I’ve researched Antonio Sanchez de la Mejorada and Ana Josefa Martinez y Lepe, looking for a connection to the Pinos branch - and no luck. I noticed on the baptism record for their first daughter, Francisca Theresa, he’s going by “Antonio Garcia de Mejorada,” which I thought is interesting:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G2S2-H?i=207&wc=3J6C-3TR

I’ve seen no other record of him using “Garcia,” but you might want to look around. That was in San Francisco, Tala, Jal. There’s also a Nicolas Garcia de la Mejorada running around in that parish, I saw him mentioned as a testigo on a 25 Nov 1693 marriage, so he’s a contemporary of your Antonio, maybe a brother.

There was another Antonio Sanchez de la Mejorada cc Maria de Leon, who lived in Pluebla de Zaragoza. I have them with 4 children, born 1700-1713. They were probably siblings of Andres SdelaM cc Mariana de Leon (3 children 1708-1712). There was also Nicolas SdelaM cc Josefa Ruiz de Lima (2 children 1699 & 1704), who might be the same who was a testigo in Tala, in 1693. The surname appears a lot in Puebla during the 1700’s.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Birth year correction for Francisca de Narvaez

Comment

Francisca de Narvaez was baptized 28 Oct 1653, and not in 1654.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Narvaez

Comment

Manny,

I have a Miguel Narvaez from aguascalientes born i think about 1690. he was married to Maria de la Concepcion Macias but i dont know when and I dont know really anything about him cause i don't have a marriage or birth or death record for him. his wife is an hija de padres noconocidos. but i think he maybe related to your Narvaez but i don't know how. Like your Narvaez, Miguel Narvaez is also called Narbais and Narbaes. and also sometimes called Miguel Narvaez y de la Cruz like here: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NBQS-M7P

But, since he's a Narvaez and a de la Cruz i thought maybe hes connected to your people and Catalina de la Cruz. he named four of his children some variation of Antonio, like Bernardo Antonio Narvaez, George Antonio Narvaez, Juan Antonio Narvaez and one just Antonio Narvaez. But that's about all i can think of. the baptisms padrinos are mostly the moms people i think cause, its mostly Macias's, no narvaez or any of the names you mention but maybe thats cause theyre in Aguascalientes but i thought maybe you might know if theyre connected to yours.

Danny C. Alonso

Narvaez

Comment

Hi Danny,

Everything I know about this family group I’ve posted. “Narvaez” was a common enough name, and “Cruz,” was super common, especially amongst the lower castes. I think there was an early Spanish family in Aguascalientes named “Cruz,” so you might want to dig around there. I’m not familiar with them, so I’m little help.

Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Narvaez

Comment

Thank you Manny for replying to my post. I was hoping that you came across him before. i will keep looking for clues to see if i find something.

Danny C. Alonso

Cruz = de la Cruz = De la Santa Cruz

Comment

My wife's Cruz (Crus) ancestors went also by De La Cruz and De la Santa Cruz. The family branches extended from Zacatecas to San Juan de Los Lagos and San Miguel el Alto.

Rick A. Ricci

Apellido De la Cruz

Comment

Hola a todos:

El apellido De la Cruz se origina en ramas diferentes: En España fue utilizado al cristianizar a familias judías. En México fue muy utilizado para bautizar a los indígenas y a los negros. Así que resultaría muy difícil determinar el origen de cada rama.

Marcelina

Apellido De la Cruz

Comment

Hi Danny

“Cruz” is a difficult surname to research for the reasons that Marcelina gave (gracias Marcelina!). In Spain, it was used for Jews who had converted to Christianity, and in the New World, it was used for Indians and Mulatos and other “New Christians,” usually among the lower castes. It was also used for “hijos de la Yglesia” (foundlings). But there were some Spanish families who used this surname, in Aguascalientes and in Nochistlan, “Cruz Bermejo” comes to mind. In fact, “Narvaez” also appears in Nochistlan, so you might want to dig around there, too.

NICOLASA NARVAEZ

This is a correction from my original post. I had Nicolasa as an hija de la Yglesia, baptized in 1650; she was actually baptized 17 Oct 1649, Nicolasa, Mestiza, hija de Catalina de la Cruz Mestiza soltera. Fue su madrina Luisa Flores India. I don’t know how I missed this, especially since the image is duplicated on both img568 & 569!! I need new glasses…
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG2L-1VR?i=567&wc=3PHZ-PTG

As an example of the difficulties of researching “Cruz,” there were 3 women named “Catalina de la Cruz,” baptizing illegitimate children in Sag SLP during the same timeline: one Mestiza, one India, and one Mulata Libre, all of the lower castes. They might even be the same person!

Gracias y saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Apellido Santa Cruz

Comment

Hola Manny:

Tengo varios años aclarando lo relativo a mis ancestros Ramírez, ya que utilizaban varios alias (hasta diez o más) y tenían hijos con diferentes mujeres. Uno de mis familiares se estableció en Colima en el Siglo XVI, se llamó Juan Ramírez de Alarcón (o Ramírez de Almodóvar), se dedicó al cultivo y venta de cacao, su esposa fué doña Catalina de Santa Cruz. Estaba relacionado con los Ramírez de Alarcón en Querétaro y en la Ciudad de México. En 9 de noviembre de 1561 bautizaron en Asunción D.F. a Melchor, padrinos: Pedro de Reyna, Pedro de Vivanco y el Licenciado Abalos.

Me llamó la atención que uno de los padrinos en 1674 fuera Joseph Alarcón y que sus descendientes casaran con personas García y Lepe. Los Ramírez de Alarcón, los Ramírez de Coy y los Lepe son la misma familia. Los Ramírez utilizaban el García y el Rojas arbitrariamente.

Aunque los descendientes de Doña Francisca de Narvaéz son de un época posterior encontré el siguiente registro de Villa de Reyes San Luis Potosí: 11 de mayo de 1651 se bautizó a Juan hijo de Juan Gutiérrez y de Catalina de Sancta Cruz.

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMH4-693 : 12 December 2014), Catalina De Sancta Crus in entry for Jn. Gutierres Sancta, 11 May 1651; citing SAN FRANCISCO, VILLA DE REYES, SAN LUIS POTOSI, MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 708,515.

Por todo lo que has relatado creo que tanto Catalina como Francisca eran reconocidas por su ascendencia, aunque fueran ilegítimas.
*****

Sobre el apellido Narvaéz encontré dos ramas, pero fue hace varios años, al estudiar la Rebelión de las Alpujarras, una rama mora en la persona de una curandera de apellido Narvaéz que salvó a Don Juan de Austria cuando era niño y se le acusaba de ingrato porque arrasó con los moros. Otra rama proviene de Rodrigo de Narvaéz que recibió el cargo de Alcaide de Antequera por los servicios en la guerra de Granada.

Desde luego hay que tomar en cuenta a Pánfilo de Narvaéz con quienes vinieron los Ramírez.

Saludos

Marcelina

Padrones

Comment

Hello Manny. Fantastic work, I found it fascinating! Did you happen to see any Camacho's in the padrones you mentioned? I have been stuck for many years in trying to find Nicolas Camacho's baptism in SLP(ca. 1680s). He is another Pinos jurisdiction resident that was born in Ciudad SLP. Any tips on locating the padrones would be of great help.

Thanks,
Jose Camacho
rinkos@hotmail.com

Padrones

Comment

Hi Jose,

Thanks for the compliment. You can find links to the padrones here:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23520

There were 3 for SLP, in 1668, 1681 & 1684.

As far as I know, there were 2 families who used "Camacho" in early SLP: the Camacho Bravo, and the Martin(ez) Camacho (who floated between Pinos and SLP). On which rancho did your Nicolas Camacho live, and who was he married to?

I'm going through the Sag SLP baptism 1678-1689, I'll keep my eyes open for Nicolas.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Padrones

Comment

Hello Manny, thanks for the reply. He was a ranchero in la Estancia Vieja (but seem to move around to El Themascal, El Tepozan, Yerbabuena, but they seem to always return to Estancia Vieja). These were at the outskirts of Pinos, Zacatecas jurisdiction and in fact, they were closer to SLP, but had to use Pinos. He married Juana de Roxas in 2/15/1707, a local girl from Mexquitic jurisdiction according to marriage documents (I never found the dispensa).

De ante mano, mil gracias!
Jose Camacho

I could use some help fining a birth record(read post for more details)..

Forums

Genealogy Research

I'm trying to help my grandpa's half brother trace his father's side of the family. He unfortunately doesn't know the names of his paternal grandparents.

Comments

Mexican Civil Records

Comment

Katy

I would take a look at the Mexican Civil records on Ancestry.com. if you do not have a subscription, they are available on the library edition which your local public library may have, or the edition at the Family History Centers (these two editions are not quite the same). The important point is that these are indexed: births, marriages, and deaths. Go to ancestry, and search the catalog for Jalisco. Select the births, marriages, or death database. Images are linked to the indexes.

Ancestry has more indexes than Family Search has for the civil records. For example, in Aguascalientes (where my research is focused), birth indexes go into the early/mid 1940s, marriages go to the 1960s, deaths go somewhat later.

Good luck.

George Fulton

Mexican Civil Records

Comment

i found an index entry for my great uncle's birth record on ancestry, and he was born in the USA, which isn't surprised since my grandpa's mom moved to the states a few years prior.
I might see my great uncle if he shows up to my cousins bbq party/gathering tomorrow. i could ask him if he remembers his dad talking about any siblings, or when/where did his dad die. i'm pretty sure that his dad was at least 20 years older than my great grandma Lupe(she was born in 1922) since he remembers his classmates mistaking his dad for being his grandpa.

Manuel Saldana

Comment

Congratulations on finding the birth record. Remember to ask many questions, not just the obvious ones. If he had siblings ask about their spouses and children. Ask him about stories he may have heard about family. Ask about where and when his father died.

Good luck and have fun at the barbecue,
Rick A. Ricci

Manuel Saldana

Comment

unfortunately he didn't show up at the bbq

Manuel Saldana

Comment

update: case closed since i recently found an immigration record that probably is for him(not gonna go into detail atm) and was able to find a birth record in colotlan from there. I also found out how those cousin matches are related to him as well.

Manuel Saldana

Comment

Manuel Saldaña C
Head of Household Name Pedro Saldaña
Age 10a
Event Place El Castillo, Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
Birth Year (Estimated) 1920
Birthplace Jalisco
Gender Male
Gender (Original Language) Hombre
Page Number 148
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

Pedro Saldaña M 38a Jalisco
Maria Cervantes De Saldaña F 30a Jalisco
Antonio Saldaña C M 12a Jalisco
Manuel Saldaña C M 10a Jalisco
Juan Saldaña C M 8a Jalisco
Ma Juana Saldaña C F 8m Jalisco
CITING THIS RECORD

"México censo nacional, 1930," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M25J-YF4 : 16 November 2014), Manuel Saldaña C in household of Pedro Saldaña, El Castillo, Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico; citing p. 148, Archivo General de la Nación, Distrito Federal (National Archives, Distrito Federal); FHL microfilm 1,507,530.

mentioned in the record of Maria Carmen Saldaña
Manuel Saldaña
mentioned in the record of Maria Carmen Saldaña
Name Manuel Saldaña
Gender Male
Wife Refugio Robles
Daughter Maria Carmen Saldaña
Name Maria Carmen Saldaña
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 17 Nov 1902
Event Place Atotonilco el Alto, Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Female
Age 0
Birth Year (Estimated) 1902
Father's Name Manuel Saldaña
Mother's Name Refugio Robles
CITING THIS RECORD

México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NBTD-8L1 : 28 July 2015), Manuel Saldaña in entry for Maria Carmen Saldaña, 17 Nov 1902; citing Baptism, Atotonilco el Alto, Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 222,145.

Manuel Jesus Saldana
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records
Name Manuel Jesus Saldana
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 20 Jun 1880
Event Place Santísima Virgen, Ixtlahuacán del Río, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Male
Father's Name Florencio Saldana
Mother's Name Cleotilde Losano
CITING THIS RECORD

México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NDY8-PYC : 28 July 2015), Manuel Jesus Saldana, 20 Jun 1880; citing Baptism, Santísima Virgen, Ixtlahuacán del Río, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 628,885.

Manuel Saldana

Comment

Dear Katherine,

I would love to help but you haven't provided any information to distinguish him from other Manuel Saldanas in Jalisco. The only thing that you mention is rio Bolivos.

Here are a few possibilities:

Manuel Saldana
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records
Name Manuel Saldana
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 13 Feb 1891
Event Place Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, Juchitlán, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Male
Father's Name Nasario Saldana
Mother's Name Pan... Urive
CITING THIS RECORD

México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N579-8MK : 28 July 2015), Manuel Saldana, 13 Feb 1891; citing Baptism, Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, Juchitlán, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 270,697.
Manuel Jesus Saldana
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records
Name Manuel Jesus Saldana
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 20 Jun 1880
Event Place Santísima Virgen, Ixtlahuacán del Río, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Male
Father's Name Florencio Saldana
Mother's Name Cleotilde Losano
CITING THIS RECORD

Jose Manuel Saldana Bermejo
Mexico Baptisms
Name Jose Manuel Saldana Bermejo
Gender Male
Christening Date 28 Dec 1853
Christening Place IXTLAHUACAN DEL RIO, JALISCO, MEXICO
Father's Name Rito Saldana
Mother's Name Bartola Bermejo
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2LY-JJY : 12 December 2014), Jose Manuel Saldana Bermejo, 28 Dec 1853; citing IXTLAHUACAN DEL RIO, JALISCO, MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 628,882.

Manuel Saldana Florez
Mexico Baptisms
Name Manuel Saldana Florez
Gender Male
Christening Date 10 May 1869
Christening Place ATOTONILCO EL ALTO,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Julian Saldana
Mother's Name Maria Trinidad Florez
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJYK-W93 : 2 January 2015), Manuel Saldana Florez, 10 May 1869; citing ATOTONILCO EL ALTO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 222,131.

Manuel Saldana Arellano
Mexico Baptisms
Name Manuel Saldana Arellano
Gender Male
Christening Date 05 Jan 1873
Christening Place SAN LUIS,COLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Juan Saldana
Mother's Name Ysabel Arellano

Need more information in order to help,
Rick A. Ricci

Manuel Saldana

Comment

i can definitely eliminate the last three since my great uncle was born in 1963(he's almost a year younger than my mom). I'll see about telling my great uncle about the first entry at least since that one has the highest possibility of being his dad compare to the other Manuels listed. It doesn't help that his dad died when he was still a kid.

Manuel Saldana

Comment

What about your great uncles birth or baptismal record? What about the death record of his father? Did he have other siblings? What about land records? What other information can you provide to guide a search?

If I was sitting in front of your great uncle I would question him for hours while recording the conversation with a tape recorder or cell phone. I would also have a pencil and paper in hand. I have found that some people have their memory jogged when someone is writing down what they are saying. Some people are more relaxed if there it is more of an informal conversation so for them you don't take out paper and pencil. For my wives uncles I tried both ways. I started off without the pencil and paper but wasn't getting anywhere. Once I started writing down information they corrected themselves and had me rewrite some info until finally after hours of interviewing them they gave me two little clues that I used to successfully find their grandfathers death and birth records and their grandmothers first marriage records.

I believe that your Rio Bolivos is may be "Ixtlahuacán del Río, Jalisco, Mexico," as there are many Manuel Saldanas in that town.

Without more information to guide the search it is impossible to know if you have found the right person.

Announce Digest, Vol 108, Issue 6

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can'treadtheseemails!

My Notes on Villasenor, Orozco, and Corona

Forums

Genealogy Research

I am finding the recent posts on Nuestors Ranchos regarding the Villasenor family very interesting. I think this would be a good time to share some of my Villasenor research below in 2 Parts.

Comments

My Notes on Villasenor,

Comment

Thank you all for your two cents.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rick,

Thank you for the confirmation on the conquistador’s matrilineal ancestors.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marcelina,

Thank you for sharing this document. I think there is a real possibility that the said Pedro Garcia Corona could be the father of both Isabel Gonzalez Corona (wife of Francisco de Medina Murillo) and Catalina Gonzalez Corona (wife of Juan de Villasenor Cervantes). If so, then Garcia de Villasenor Cervantes and his wife Francisca Caballero de Medina would be second cousins.

Does anybody know of any marriage or dispensation records for this couple?

This might lead to finding how Catalina Corona is a first cousin to the wife of that Diego Hurtado.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Danny,

I have been reviewing the wikitree ancestors of Juan de Villasenor Cervantes (http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/de%20Villaseñor%20y%20Cervantes-Famil…)

and spotted a miner discrepancy. The discrepancy surrounds Juan de Villasenor Cervantes’ matrilineal ancestor Fernan Yanez de Saavedra (http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Yañez%20de%20Saavedra-Family-Tree-1).

The wikitree version is shown as:

Sancho IV, had a natural daughter:
Brasina Sanchez Villalobos, who married Lope Fernandez Pacheco, parents of:
Maria Lopez de Villalobos, married Juan Garcia de Saavedra, parents of:
Fernan Yanez de Saavedra.

Another version is shown as:

Sancho IV, had a natural daughter:
Teresa Sanchez, who married Rui Gil de Villalobos, parents of:
Maria Rodriguez de Villalobos, who married Lope Fernandez Pacheco, parents of:
Maria Lopez de Villalobos, who married Juan Garcia de Saavedra, parents of:
Fernan Yanez de Saavedra.

I am not sure which version is correct. The second version seems to better explain the “Villalobos” presents and the patronymic names seem to make more sense. Perhaps Brasina “Sanchez Villalobos” and Maria “Rodriguez Villalobos” are the same person.

Both:

“Nobiliario de los reinos y señoríos de España por D. Francisco Piferrer, ilustrado con un Diccionario de Heraldica, DICCIONARIO DE HERALDICA, Tomo II. Segunda Edicion. Madrid. 1858.”

and

“MONARQUIA ESPAÑOLA, BLASON DE SU NOBLEZA: DEDICADO A LA AUGUSTA MAGESTAD DE D. PHELIPE DE BORBON, QUINTO DE ESTE NOMBRE, REY CATHOLICO DE LAS ESPAÑAS, Emperador del America, nuestro Señor: Y à la Reyna nuestra Señora Doña Isabèl Farnese Neoburg Baviera. MADRID: Año 1736.”

make Maria Lopez de Villalobos a granddaughter of the king Sancho IV, but perhaps she was really a great-granddaughter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Escribano Diego “Hurtado de Mendoza” is probably the same Escribano “Diego Hurtado” mentioned in my original post. Does anyone know how this Diego is connected to the convoluted “Hurtado de Mendoza” family of Spain? This might lead to finding the name of his wife, who is said to be a first cousin of Catalina Gonzalez Corona.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sergio,

Thank you for the input. I am interested to know what else you find in “Los Nietos de Don Juan”

The particular line I am interested in is as follows:

The Conquistador Juan de Villasenor Orozco (Catalina Cervantes)
Juan de Villasenor Cervantes (Catalina Corona)
Lucia de Villasenor Cervantes (Gonzalo Lopez del Castillo)
Juan de Villasenor Cervantes (obviously named after his maternal grandfather, married Elena de Arizmendi Gogorron)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Familia González Corona

Comment

Hola otra vez:

Existió un expediente de limpieza de sangre de Don Juan Caballero y Osio en donde se mencionan a sus ancestros. Sobre el ambiente de dicha familia y sus antecedentes se puede consultar la Tesis de Maestría de María Cristina Montoya Rivero llamada "El Clero Secular y el patronazgo de obras de arte en la Nueva España, tres estudios de caso. Facultad de Filosofía y letras páginas 63-67, incluye un cuadro genealógico, mismo que está incompleto, pero puede servir como indicio.

La tesis se encuentra en el PORTAL REMERI en línea, con el título es fácilmente localizable. Tanto Don Francisco de Medina Murillo como su esposa Doña Isabel González Corona, benefactores de Querétaro al hacer donación fundacional para la Orden Carmelita, provenían de Extremadura.

Saludos a todos

Marcelina

Lucía de Villaseñor Corona

Comment

In the book "Familias y casas de la Vieja Valladolid " some of the descendants of Lucia de Villaseñor Corona are listed.

It says that she married Captain Gonzalo López del Castillo, having three siblings:

1. Juan, who married Elena de Arizmendi y Gogorrón, natural de la villa de Querétaro, hija del Captain Pedro de Arizmendi y Gogorrón, poblador del Real de Minas de San Luis Potosí y de la Sra. Antonia de Rivas.
Father Ibarrola says that they had descendants, but doesn't give the James.

2. Garci del Castillo, who married Francisca Caballero de Medina (antepasados de Agustín de Iturbide)

3. Catalina -no info about her

It says that Lucía married again on Nov 14th 1604 to Alférez Real Tomás González de Figueroa, having one daughter out of this marriage : Francisca, who married yo Pedro de Villegas y Peralta

Catalina Gonzales Corona

Comment

Hello,
What time reference are you talking about. I do have a Catalina Gonzales Corona, born in 1705 in Autlan, Jalisco. I don't have a marriage, but her parents are Hernan Gonzales Corona and Maria Ortega. Deedra Corona

Catalina Gonzales Corona

Comment

Deedra,

this Catalina Corona would've been born in the 1500's.

Danny C. Alonso

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:55 PM, wrote:

> Hello, What time reference are you talking about. I do have a Catalina
> Gonzales Corona, born in 1705 in Autlan, Jalisco. I don't have a marriage,
> but her parents are Hernan Gonzales Corona and Maria Ortega. Deedra Corona
>

book on juan villasenor orozco

Comment

found this book from 1949 via google books:

Los nietos de Don Juan

Bibliographic information

QR code for Los nietos de Don Juan
Title Los nietos de Don Juan: datos poco o nada conocidos que pueden ser de utilidad para la genealogia del ilustre conquistador D. Juan de Villaseñor Orozco, fundador de Valladolid de Michoacan
Memorias de la Academia Mexicana de Genealogia y Heraldica
Publisher Editorial Cultura, T.G., 1949
Original from University of Texas
Digitized 23 May 2008
Length 102 pages

https://books.google.dk/books?id=CU5lAAAAMAAJ&q=diego+arias+sotelo&dq=d…

there may be new info for you there.

regards,
Denise

My Notes on Villasenor,

Comment

Guiomar de Orozco Sandoval is the daughter Don Diego de Orozco, Comendador de Poza -Rubias.en la Orden de Santiago and Doña Guiomar de Sandoval y Fernandez .

Doña Guiomar de Sandoval y Fernandez is the daughter of Don Pedro de Sandoval and Catalina Fernandez

That is from primary sources.

Rick A. Ricci

Fuentes directas de la Genealogía Villaseñor Cervantes

Comment

Hola Richard:

Para acreditar directamente la relación entre las familias Villaseñor y Cervantes podrías leer la información de méritos y servicios de Don Bernardo de Villaseñor Cervantes que se encuentra en PARES con la signatura INDIFERENTE, 116, N.22
Es bastante legible y en la segunda página menciona a don Juan de Villaseñor.

Por otra parte, como se advierte en ésta relación, hubo parentesco con doña Francisca Caballero de Medina (tía de un benefactor de Querétaro llamado Don Juan Caballero y Osio)
1. Doña Francisca era hija
2. de Don Juan Caballero y de Doña Francisca de Medina y Corona, ésta era hija
3. de Don Francisco de Medina Murillo y Doña Isabel González Corona

Es posible que la Catalina que estás buscando se apellide González Corona. En la información se cita a un Pedro García Corona. La familia Caballero recibió propiedades extensas y valiosas de Don Francisco de Medina Murillo, una parte en Querétaro y otra entre San Luis Potosí y Jalisco.

Hay otro documento original sobre los autos de la sucesión de Don Juan de Villaseñor, vecino de Mechoacan, testamento otorgado en la estancia de Quironambaro, heredero el monasterio de monjas de Santa Catalina de Sena en Ocaña. Año 1594, CONTRATACION,241,N.1,R.9 contiene imágenes de un expediente extenso.

En el blog Vámonos al Bable, bajo la etiqueta:El Bable Don Juan de Villaseñor y Orozco se menciona el testamento y otros datos extraidos de un libro de Cirilo Álvarez Lira.

Saludos

Marcelina

Catalina Corona, from Extremadura

Comment

Hola Marcelina,

(David, see English below)

No creo hayamos tenido el placer de intercambiar información todavía. Recientemente encontré encontré el libro de Ignacio Dávila Garibi titulado "Los Nietos de Don Juan," referente a los descendientes del Conquistador D. Juan de Villaseñor y Orozco , fundador de Valladolid de Michoacán, hoy Morelia, genearca de los Villaseñor en el occidente de México.

En la página 16-19 detalla la vida del primogénito del Conquistador, también llamado Juan pero de apellido Villaseñor Cervantes. Fue este hijo quien casó con Catalina Corona. En la p. 19 dice “paso a ocuparme en seguida de los diez hijos que hubo y procreó en su legítima esposa Da. Catalina Corona, natural de Extremadura, hija de padres nobles y ricos que le dieron en dote veinte mil ducados.” En las notas 11 y 12 al final del libro dice que extrajo la firma de Da. Catalina del “Archivo de Notarías, Morelia, Mich. Protocolo de Francisco Martín de Alcaraz. Vol. I, s.f. [fechada 10 abril 1592]” Estaré al pendiente conforme leo y estudio este libro para ver si detalla la ascendencia de Da. Catalina.

English:

Hello David,

As mentioned above just last week I found a copy of Davila Garibi’s book “Los Nietos de Don Juan," (the grandchildren of D. Juan de Villaseñor Orozco) at the Hesburgh Library of the University of Notre Dame, close to where I work.

I am currently working my way through inputting the 10 children that Ignacio Dávila Garibi details as descendants of Juan de Villaseñor Cervantes and Catalina Corona. As it says above in Spanish, it seems Catalina was from Extremadura, but her parents are not mentioned in the book, so far.

But this afternoon I was able to clarify a claim that Mr. Dávila Garibi was unsure about, because he had not been able to find the document himself to verify it. One of his personal sources [Rafael Nieto y Cortadellas] had claimed to have seen a marriage entry for one of the 10 children, a Juan de Villaseñor y Corona on 5 Feb 1587 in the Sagrario of the Cathedral of Mexico City under the name of Villaseñor Orozco to a María de Espinoza. I found this image on Familysearch, which I believe is the one that was referenced.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939Z-5BL1-Q?i=233&wc=3P6L-829%3…

My paleographic interpretation of the written character or characters in front of “orozco” is that it is more likely an “h” and therefore reads “horozco,” which was not an uncommon spelling of the name Orozco. I think it is a stretch to make it into a “Vs” for Villaseñor, and therefore Villaseñor Orozco. The main reason is that I think the word for the date interpreted as “cinco” (five) more likley reads “ocho” (eight). This means the marriage took place on 8 Feb 1587, rather than 5 Feb, and that this Juan de Orozco is probably not related to the Villaseñor line.

I will keep us all posted as I make my way further through the book and figure out the other children.

Sergio

PS I will share more after I comb through additional children of Juan de Villaseñor Cervantes and Catalina Corona.

Diego Hurtado

Comment

Hello Genealogist

here is some mentions of the escribano Diego Hurtado also Diego Hurtado de Mendoza:

https://books.google.com/books?id=iFkMAAAAYAAJ&q=Nueva+Galicia+%22Diego…

https://books.google.com/books?id=QwdTAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA126&dq=Nueva+Galici…

https://books.google.com/books?id=OxFKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA155&dq=Nueva+Galici…

Danny C. Alonso

Villaseñor Corona

Comment

Hola Sergio:

Yo no he estudiado a la familia Villaseñor ni a los Cervantes ni a los Bocanegra directamente, únicamente trato de compartir los datos que tengo con Richard, ya que él desciende de dichas familias. Esas familias al igual que los Jaramillo, los Andrada e incluso los Corona están relacionados con Querétaro.

Esta relación se dio porque los conquistadores de Nueva Galicia se asentaron también en Querétaro, que perteneció a Nueva Galicia y luego le fue quitado para agregarlo a Jilotepec en 1548. (Fue con motivo de los tributos).

La cabeza de éste grupo era Don Hernando Pérez de Córdoba y Bocanegra (en realidad Fernández de Córdoba y Bocanegra) que participó en la entrada de conquista de Nuño Beltrán de Guzman, y se encuentra relacionado con mi familia a través de sus ascendientes Ponce de León, cuyo hijo o nieto era Adelantado de Nueva Galicia. Así que algo he encontrado de esas familias pero no las he estudiado formalmente.

Pero me parece muy importante compartir los datos de las diferentes regiones, pues algunas familias -como la mía, los Ramírez de Coy- dejaron descendencia en once países, mi abuelo décimo Juan Ramírez de Coy y Alfaro Bravo de Lagunas utilizó cerca de diez alias y dejó hijos en Puebla, en México, en Colima, en Querétaro, en Guanajuato, en Morelia, y tal vez en Guerrero. Este caso me ha llevado a comprender que las familias no eran estáticas y que los documentos no son siempre fidedignos. Éste abuelo al testar, acepto tener dos esposas, la primera en Cartaya, Huelva y la segunda en Querétaro.

Creo que el testamento que citas será de gran utilidad para Richard y demás estudiosos de la familia Villaseñor. Recibe cordiales saludos.

Marcelina

Villaseñor

Comment

Hello Genealogist,

Austin, Chris and me have been working on the Villaseñor's. Here is what we have so far:

http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/de%20Villaseñor%20y%20Cervantes-Famil…

I don't have Catarina Corona's parents, but she's described in several sources as being very rich, so her parents were probably important.

Danny C. Alonso

i'm confused about these two doucments

Forums

Genealogy Research

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-12623-19?cc=1874591&wc…
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28435-56?cc=1874591&wc…

Comments

i'm confused about these two

Comment

According to image 13, first page, lines 6 and 7 from the bottom to the top, the bride says she is not related to the groom at all, neither by blood nor by family marriages. In the same image, second page, 4th line from the bottom to the top, it also says they are not related.
Victoriano Navarro

Help

Comment

I will start looking at the first one. It's very interesting because it contains confirmation of the Miramontes, Haro, and Ortiz families of Tlaltenango. I cannot recall where I read it, but I believe that there was an Alonso Perez that lived with on of the MIramontes families from Tlaltenango but I believe his relationship is unknown. I'll look for the thread here on NR that contains that information. BTW..Nice find!

Help

Comment

too bad the second document is rather confusing

Help

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No tolerance for the continuing racist views being expressed here.

Hatred hiding behind "science" is still hatred.

Comments

unsubscribe

Comment

Please do not leave. It is only through discourse that we help each other recognize our ignorances. Many times It is only after they see our words in print that we can reflect and realize how offensive our beliefs or comments were. I believe everybody would be better Off if we found a way to share our beliefs so our prejudices come to lighT. Please do not leave. The more you are offended, the more you need to stay to help the community see how offensive these comments are.
If you leave then opinions aren't changed.
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From: noblanktree@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] unsubscribe
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No tolerance for the continuing racist views being expressed here.

Hatred hiding behind "science" is still hatred.

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Question?

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Genealogy Research

So I want to try to trace my American/Mexican ancestors so is there any other website like ancestry.com that you don't have to pay?If someone is subscribed to ancestry.com it would be very nice helpfu

Comments

Abram101

Comment

I tried Ancestry.com and found them way too expensive and no results. I had no success with my searches and a friend of mine told me to use FamilySearch, which is free and quite helpful. I've had success in my searches with Nuestros Ranchos, Mexico Genealogy and familysearch. They are free and very helpful. Afer months of searching, Joseph found my Mother and I almost cried to see her birth certificate since than I stick with NR.

Ann Marie Gutierrez

Abram101

Comment

Ann Marie Gutierrez

Question?

Comment

If your grandfather was using the name Roberto Diaz Flores and all his children go the surname Flores, I wonder whether he used his full name unchanged (Roberto Diaz Flores) and here in the US the authorities just assumed Flores was his only surname, or if he switched the order of his surnames and his real birth name was Roberto Flores Diaz. If you search this name at familysearch you get some hits from US border crossings from Mexico.

As for using Ancestry.com, I agree with Mr. Fulton, you can visit your local library, or the library of a nearby university and they may have a subscription you can use. Maybe even your school.

Good luck with your search,
Victoriano Navarro

Question?

Comment

Victoriano,

I see so do you think one of the those Robertos might be my grandfather?I shall try going to the library and check if they do so.

Question?

Comment

Abram,

Yes, one of those Robertos might be your grandfather, although Roberto, Díaz and Flores are pretty common name and surnames, so chances are there were more people named like your grandfather during his lifetime.

Good luck with your search,
Victoriano Navarro

Ancestry.com Border Crossing Records

Comment

Abram

There is a border crossing record that may be of interest, but you would need some more information to determine if this is the right person:

Roberto Diaz Flores
b. 9-17-1928, Ags., Ags, Mexico
residence: Calle Madero #164, Ags., Ags., Mexico
Crossed the border at El PAso, 5 Jan 1946
unnmarried

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Texas Birth record indices at Ancestry.com

Comment

Abram

Assuming your grandmother was born in the 1930's (not unreasonable with the info you provided) there is one Petra Flores born in Bexar Co., TX:

Petra Flores
b. 18 Sep 1931, Bexar Co.
Father: Mateo Flores
Mother: Andreas Casares

However, more inforamtion is needed to determine if this is the right Petra Flores. There are 12 other Petra Flores born in Texas in the 1930s.

There are also at least two female births with last name Flores, but no first name, in Bexar County.

Perhaps trying to find a marriage record for your grandparents would solve the riddle.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Availability of Ancestry.com

Comment

Many public libraries have a subscription to Ancestry.com; however you have to use it at the library.

The LDS Family History Centers also have access, but once again, you can only use it at the FHC.

At the Family Search website there is a source entitled "United States, Border Crossings from Mexico to United States, 1903-1957" which may be helpful. This is just an index of the files at Ancestry.com. Ancestry.com has images of these records. which may have more information than the index. In a few cases there are even pictures of the person, but that is rare.

There are a number of Texas resources at Family Search that you can search on the web, as well as others at Ancestry.com.

The 1940 Census may be helpful, although the names Roberto Flores and Petra Flores are not distinctive, so if you had any more information your chances of success would be improved.

Getting a copy of your father's birth certificate would be helpful, but it likely would only say his father is from Mexico, but there is always a chance that it may be more specific. There are restrictions on who can get copies of birth records. You would have to look at the rules at the Texas Department of State Health Services. There is also a fee for an official copy.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Availability of Ancestry.com

Comment

George,

May I have the link to that specific website because i couldn't find it.I tried looking for my fathers birth certificate on familysearch.org but was not successful it didn't mention birth records for people born in San Antonio Texas County Bexar;this is a lot different than looking for your ancestors in Mexico.

Texas website

Comment

Abram

This is the site:

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/reqproc/certified_copy.shtm#offline

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Availability of Ancestry.com

Comment

Name: Rogelio F Flores
Date of Birth: 3 Jul 1951
Gender: Male
Birth County: Bexar
Father's Name: Roberto D Flores
Mother's Name: Petra Flores
Roll Number: 1951_0005

The above is from Ancestry.com. It's a birth index. You have to order a birth certificate thru Vital Check in order to see the document. I still pay for this site, but after going through it today I might have to cancel. You used to be able to look at lot of records, now they want you to order all the sources. For the price that I pay I'm certainly over paying for it.

I found a family tree that is online at Ancestry.com of a family that seems to match, but there is very few facts attached to the tree.
From this tree the following info is on it. Again, not sure if this is your family.
Roberto D Flores
1922
20 Mar
Birth
Saltillo, Coahuila de Zaragoza, Mexico
3 source citations
1922
13 Nov
Baptism
Saltillo, Coahuila de Zaragoza, Mexico
1924

1949
Mar
Age: 27
Marriage to Petra Cantu
San Fernando Cathedral, San Antonio, TX
1 source citation
1952
15 Mar
Age: 29
Arrival
Eagle Pass, Texas, United States
1 source citation
1966
23 Sep
Age: 44
Death
San Antonio, TX
2 source citations
Occupation
Baker - Bakery

Roberto Flores Diaz
Maclovio Villegas' extended Family Tree
BIRTH: 20 Mar 1922 - Mexico
MARRIAGE: Mar 1949 - San Antonio, TX (Texas)
DEATH: 23 Sep 1966 - San Antonio, TX (Texas)
PARENTS: Maclovio Flores, Angela Diaz

Texas > San Antonio > 1960 > San Antonio, Texas, City Directory, 1960 > 638
Roberto D. Flores
Residence 1960 San Antonio, Texas
Occupation = Baker
Spouse Petra Flores

Petra Cantu

1921
Birth
Robstown, TX
1949
Mar
Age: 28
Marriage to Roberto Flores Diaz
San Fernando Cathedral, San Antonio, TX
1 source citation
1970
Age: 49
Death
San Antonio, TX

Abram,

You might want to contact Maclovio Villegas' extended Family Tree owner to see if you are related. His/her family tree is public so I think they are willing to be contacted. I would check my local library as people here have suggested. Only go the Genelogy Department to see if they have access to Ancestry.com.

I just noticed that some of the dates for children don't match the marriage date, so probably not your family, but I'll leave it up in case it helps.

Juanita Henniger

Brick Wall with Cantu

Comment

Hi there,

I was able to locate my father (Rogelio Flores) paternal and maternal grandparents. I have Roberto Flores Diaz who was born in Coahuila ,Mexico in March 20 1922 and died in San Antonio Texas in the year 1966.
My grandmother (Petra Flores) my fathers mother was born in Robstown, Texas in April 27 1921 and died in San Antonio, Texas in the year 1970.
I recently hit a brick wall and i'm completely stuck in Petra Flores side of the family. Petra Flores parents are Guillermo Flores and Manuela Cantu. Guillermo Flores I estimated he was born anywhere from 1883-1886 in Mexico im assuming according to the U.S census of 1920. He immigrated to Texas in the year 1900, and got married to Manuela Cantu in the year 1907 in San Patricio, Texas, and died in 1972. They had about 5 kids Gregorio Flores birth:1909 Julian Flores birth: 1918 Petra Flores birth:1921 Bentito Flores birth: 1912 Adelita Flores birth :1918. The brick wall that I hit is with Manuela Cantu. I have Manuela Cantu born in the year 1890 birth place:Texas. The parents I have listed down for her are Eliseo Cantu and Virginia Cantu. For some odd reason and what Im having trouble is there is another Manuela Cantu married to a different man (Rufino Flores) with the same surname as Guillermo? and also the same parents (Eliseo Cantu) (Virginia (Champion) and same birthdate (1890). Could it be that Manuela Cantu had two families at the same time? seems kinda impossible. I would appreciate any comments and any help will be greatly appreciated, thank you.

Flores-Cantu

Comment

Abram

I found both of these families in the 1940 Census for Texas. Your family (Guillermo) is enumerated in Robstown, Nueces Co., TX, and the other family (Rufino) is in Cameron Co. I think you are just looking at a case of very similar names.

It does not make sense for a woman to have two families at the same time.

George Fulton

Flores-Cantu

Comment

HI George,

Thank you for your input, I do find it very strange how similar these two families are. Due to my lack of experience searching in the U.S for my ancestors, I might run into a lot of problems like this, since all my research with my ancestors started of in Mexico with my mothers side of the family. Now that I'm doing my fathers side, it's a little bit more complicated. I still cannot find any info on Eliseo and Virginia Cantu other than information that belongs to a whole other family with very very similar names in Cameron co. I'm still really happy that I found the info that I found because I never met my father or his family and knowing everything that I know now about his family brings a smile to face, and makes me feel closer to them. I really wanna visit San Antonio, Texas one day.

Abram Flores-Armas

Flores

Comment

Abram

The census record for Guillermo Flores is quite interesting because it names the state in Mexico (Tamualipas) where he was born. Also, there seems to be a connection with the family of Candelario Flores that immediately follows his. Guillermo is the head of family #127 but Candelario is called the father in family #128. If this were a separate household Candelario should be called the head of the household, since he is not I am concluding that Candelario is Guillermo's father. Candelario is also from Tamualipas.

George Fulton

Flores

Comment

George

I just found a death certificate for Guillermo Flores, but I'm unsure if this is my Guillermo Flores. In the Death certificate it has his father listed down as Candelario Flores and Angelita Sauceda. What throws me off are his date of birth and where he was born. The date of birth that I have listed down for him is 1881-1886, and the location of his birth is Tamaulipas. In the Death certificate it has his birth year in 1871 and birthplace in Brownsville, Texas. I went ahead and looked at Brownsville, Texas on google maps, and I found out that Brownsville is the border town of Tamaulipas. Further into my research I found a little bit more on Guillermo Flores and his family, but I'm not 100% sure this is the same family. I found a baptismal record on Guillermo Flores born 24 June 1884 in Matamoros, Tamaulipas, son of Candelario Flores and of Angela Saucedo. I also found two more record of 2 of his brothers Santos, and Pedro Flores same location. I later than found another record which caught me with a lot of interest. In the 1910 U.S census theres a document that has Candelario Flores married to Angelita Saucedo living in San Patricio, Texas, same place where my Guillermo Flores married Manuela Cantu in 1907. For his race they have it down as an Octoroon 1/8th black, I found that to be so interesting. Towards the end it has his Candelarios father born in Mexico doesn't specify where and his mother born in Illinois. It also makes sense that Guillermo Flores is not mentioned in the household I'm assuming because he got married like mentioned before in 1907 and he probably had his own household by then. Lastly how can I verify if this is truly Guillermo Flores Family majority of the facts seem to match.

Name Candelria Flores
Event Type Census
Event Date 1910
Event Place Justice Precinct 7, San Patricio, Texas, United States
Gender Male
Age 38
Marital Status Married
Race 1/8 Black
Race (Original) Octoroon
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Relationship to Head of Household (Original) Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1872
Birthplace Mexico
Father's Birthplace Mexico
Mother's Birthplace Illinois
Sheet Letter A
Sheet Number 19
HOUSEHOLD
Candelria Flores Head M 38 Mexico
Angelita Saucedo Wife F 25 Mexico
Pedro Flores Son M 19 Mexico
Lupe Flores Son M 18 Texas
Carmen Flores Daughter F 17 Texas
Condelario Flores Son M 10 Texas

Abram Flores-Armas

Guillermo and Candelario Flores

Comment

Abram

In my opinion, there is a very strong probability that this is your family. I found it somewhat surprising that the census record said that he and his father are from Tamaulipas as this level of detail is quite uncommon for people born in another country (the closest thing I've seen to this is distinguishing between French speaking vs English speaking Canada, although it is frequently just Canada).

Ages in US census records are not always correct, and should be considered approximate unless you have other evidence that substantiates it. The birthdate in a death certificate is not considered primary evidence - it is only as good as the knowledge or memory of the person providing the info. If you can follow a family in several US censuses it is not uncommon to see a person age more or less than 10 years from one census to the next, a little odd when the census is exactly 10 years apart.

The baptism info you found I would consider the right one for your family. The father's name and state of birth is consistent with the Census record, and the baptism date is pretty close match for the son's estimated birth year.

There are some Ancestry.com family trees for the Cantu-Champion family. Some have more documentation, others have less. These are worth looking at, but try to verify the information. There is a fair amount of Texas genealogy info at both Family Search and Ancestry.com that will be helpful. Some of the Family Search sources can only be used at a Family History Center if you are not LDS (I volunteer at a FHC and the public is always welcome).

"Champion" apparently derives from "Campione" which is Italian. There are a lot of Italian records at Family Search.

As far as doing US research compared to Mexican research, the process is generally the same. Depending on the state civil records start at different times, generally rather late in the Western US, and not as readily available. You often have to purchase the record ($10-25 is typical), although some states have them online for free - Texas death records at family search are one example. Privacy laws can complicate things, but for a near blood relative this is often not a problem.

The Find-a-grave website is sometimes very useful. This depends on the volunteer submitting the info, and how much is on the person's gravestone. Look for Texas GenWeb and other sites such as county genealogical or historical societities. There are county histories written in the late 1800s for many counties. Although not all families are in these (people usually had to pay for an entry), if you do find a family of interest there can be valuable clues hard to find elsewhere. A good place to look for these is the website archive.org for a digital copy (these are free). If a book you find iis not there, the website worldcat can help find it.

Sometimes you will not be able to prove a relationship, however you may be able to collect enough information to conclude that a relationship is highly probable. Document as best you can, and state your reasoning and conclusions based on those documents.

Best of luck!

George Fulton

Familia Cantu-Champion

Comment

George

Thank you for the advice and your help very appreciative. I have concluded that Guillermo's father and mother are Candelario Flores and Angelita Saucedo. In regards to the Cantu family, I'm not sure how to get through that brick wall. All the information that I have gathered on Manuela Cantu (wife of Guillermo Flores) matches with the other Cantu family where it says she's married to Rufino Flores, but then it makes no sense to have two families at the same time. Both Manuela Cantu's are born around the same time and they both have the same parents names, and both born in Texas.

Abram Flores-Armas

Flores/Cantu

Comment

there are other free sites but they generally have the files of people who have done the work and are submitting their research. Rootsweb.com is one free site. I know when I put my files on Rootsweb.com I put the film # and page number you can find them at. Like you I don't use Ancestry.com because it is expensive but I did use them in the past. Familysearch.com offers me most of the same information for free.
good luck and don't give up because you will find that one special record that gives you that aha moment.
Linda Castanon-Long

Manuela Cantu Flores

Comment

Abram

I think I've made a breakthrough on Manuela Cantu Flores.

There are two different Manuela Cantu's that lived at very nearly the same time, and married two men surnamed Flores. Both families are well documented in the Texas census records from 1920 to 1940.

The family of Guillermo lived in Nueces County, and the other in Cameron County.

There are a number of posted genealogies on the family of Rufino Flores. His Manuela Cantu was born in 1890 and died in 1980. Her information comes from her death record, and from a fair amount of information at Find-a-Grave. Importantly from the census record she and Rufino did not have a child named Petra.

Guillermo and Manuela, of course, had a child named Petra (your ancestor) - she is named in the census. Among others, they had another daughter named Maria. There are death records for Guillermo and Manual, unfortunately they do not name the spouse. Two important points are that the person doing the notification for both records is Maria F. Salazar, who is called "daughter" on Manuela's death certificate, but her relationship is not stated on Guillermo's, and they are both buried in Robstown, which of course in the community the family lived in.The informer links the two records together, the fact that in one case the informer is called daughter implies the couple is married. You can also find them both on Find-a-grave. Manuela's Find-a-Grave record names her parents, which are the same as the death certificate: Hilario Cantu and Angelita Herrera. This is somewhat circumstantial since I have not found a marriage record for Maria Flores to Mr. Salazar that names her parents. If we found this record, it would remove any doubt.

The details from the death records are:

Manuela C. Flores, b. Aug 27, 1888 Brownsville (or possibly 1883 as the number is a little hard to read) and died Nov 13, 1978 Corpus Christie. Parents Hilario Cantu and Angelita Herrera. Buried Robstown Memorial Park.

Guillermo Flores, b. June 26, 1871, Brownsville, and died Sept 6, 1972, Corpus Christie, Parents Candelario Flores and Angelita Sauceda. Buried Robstown Memorial Park.

You can get the death records from Family Search, or from Ancestry.

George Fulton

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Thanks

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I would like to thank you for your hard work. Thanks to your website, I've been able to break brick walls that I thought were impossible to break. I've noticed that there are some contributors to your site. It may take me a while, but I would like to volunteer and index some films. Let me know which ones are not being worked on right now, and I'll start doing it during my free time. By the way, I've noticed some misspellings on some towns and names. Is it posible to edit some posts so that they come out when searching for a specific place or surname?

Steve in NC

Ayuda para encontrar padres de Martín Muñoz y Dolores Aguilar

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Hola a todos los genealogistas:

Desde hace tiempo, me ha sido imposible encontrar a los padres de los siguientes tíos:

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Ayuda para encontrar padres de Martín Muñoz y Dolores Aguilar

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Marcelina,

i think your asking about the parents of Martin Munoz and Dolores Aguilar, but the marriage is available online.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-64L7-BPY

The parents of Martin Munoz are Pedro Munoz and Albina Rincon. And the parents of Dolores Aguilar are Trinidad Aguilar and Ascencion Palacio. The Padrinos were Bernardo and Anna Martinez.

Danny C. Alonso

Thanks Danny

Comment

Hello Danny:

Thanks for help me. I have two aunties daugthers od Pascual Muñoz, my son "Pascualito" born in 1883. When he was a children in León, Gto. in 1896 one flood kill near of 5000 people. His father Marcelino died in this flood, the family lost all documents, portraits, lost all posesions, my uncle workt to support his family.

My two aunties will be particularly grateful to you for this notice.

Thanks again.

Marcelina

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