Dr.mt

Another Interesting IGI Entry

Published by Visitor (not verified) –
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Genealogy Research

Again, thank you so much for your help. I am so happy. Helen
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: arturoramos
>
> Helen:
>
> Here is another interesting entry that may or may not be your ancestor but the

Comments

Published by Denise Hernand… – Sun, 2013-02-24 06:57 | Permalink

Comment

Femat and Femá with Romo de Vivar

Hello

I came across this information today:

The name Femá is also written as Femat, judging from two documents:

1. Marriage dispensa for Don Fernando Femá and Dona Teodora Romo de Vivar,
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic...Church Records, 1590-1995
Guadalajara
Diócesis de Guadalajara
Matrimonios 1735-1819
Image 45 of 278

This doc has a tree for Monica Romo de Vivar and two of her sons and their sons and their son/daughter (who wish to marry). One son of Monica has the name Fermin Femá and the other is given as Pedro Romo de Vivar.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18402-92423-90?cc=1874591&wc…

2. The Información Matrimonial for Fermín Antonio Femat and
Mónica Romo de Vivar (dated 17/Oct/1715 in Aguascalientes, Sagrario) IMAGE 166 ON THE FOLLOWING:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11627-22110-47?cc=1410092&…

Monica's proposed husband is named as Fermin Antonio Femat, and his father has the same name (end with a "t", no accent mark)

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Published by alicebb – Tue, 2010-07-20 21:30 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Group,
I'm hoping there's someone out there that likes reading the old church entries.  This is an unusual request, I know; but I don't know any other way to do this.  On the pilot site, I'm researching difunciones entries for Nstra Sra De Guadalupe, Salinas Victoria, Nvo Leon 1745-1836, specifically image 140.  It's on the right, third from the bottom.  This is my 7ggrandfather, Martin De Arrambide, and I need to know if I'm reading the entry correctly.  I'm not sure about a word that comes after his name; it could indicate that my research with that line is finished in Mexico.  Also, does it say that he had a mason's burial?  What's that? I'm confused and all help would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks so much,   Alice

Romo de Vivar, Tiscareno, de la Cruz, Martin del Campo, Hurtado de Medoza, de la Mora

Published by Denise Hernand… –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello fellow reseachers

I found a marriage dispensa recently indexed, with the following information:

Don Pedro Romo de Vivar married to Dona Lorenza Tiscareno

Comments

Published by Denise Hernand… – Sun, 2013-02-24 04:30 | Permalink

Comment

The index was from 10 Dec 2011, not recently, sorry for any confusion!
The year of the dispensa is 1756.
Regards
Denise

Guadalajara Dispensas?

Published by abram101 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi everybody,

Comments

Published by katy_brecht_quesada – Fri, 2013-02-22 21:20 | Permalink

Comment

you know you can index a collection from the guadalajara dispensas that hasn't been indexed yet(at least most of it, even if you can't decipher every single name), and submit it to her. she will most likely reply within a week(or less if you're lucky).

Comment

Abram,

The following don't show up as being worked on currently at http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/p/news-coming-soon.html

Matrimonios 1725-1726 film 167994
Matrimonios 1725-1726 film 168368
Matrimonios 1727-1729 film 168370
Matrimonios 1728 film 167995
Matrimonios 1728 film 167996
Matrimonios 1730 film 167997
Matrimonios 1730 film 167998
Matrimonios 1731-1732 film 168116

You could start indexing these as Katy said. Try and be as accurate as possible with the names and location. Adding the names of the parents is especially helpful to people as well as the page number that the genealogical information is located and if possible the surname that they share.

Armando

Published by Armando – Fri, 2013-02-22 16:53 | Permalink

Comment

You have bad luck in that most of your posts aren't emailed to the group. It's because of a glitch with the server that still hasn't been corrected.

I am surprised Claudia never got back with you on indexing dispensas.

I don't think there is a project for indexing documents post 1900 for Nochistlán. Joseph Puentes might know.

You can go to https://www.familysearch.org/volunteer/indexing to see if there is a project you are interested in.

To reiterate, I think an index of the Información Matrimonial records of Nochistlán would be very helpful to a lot of people.

Armando

Diego Macías Valadez y Tomasa de Chávez

Published by agomgar –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Buenas tardes,

Estoy buscando información sobre DIEGO MACIAS VALADEZ, casado con Tomasa de Chavez, el 12 de febrero de 1673 en Aguascalientes.

Comments

Published by blchavezjr – Thu, 2013-02-21 16:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hi. My name is Bernie Chavez.I am researching My familywhich are from the
area around Guadalajara, Jalisco. Specifically, my great-grandfather,
Bernardino Chavez and his parents, Cenofio Chavez and Cristina (Magallanes)
Chavez all lived in this area.
Bernardino was, according to family lore, cristened In May of 1860 in the
Parroquia de San Jose de Analco in Guadalajara. Not much else is known
about his life in Mexico apart from that. We do know that he crossed the
border around the time of the revolution, 1909 or 1910.
My great grandmother, Luz (Mendoza) Chavez was born in or around 1891 to
Eleno and Cruzita Mendoza. again, not much is known of her, either. We are
sure that she lived in Jalisco, but most family stories about her are not
clear where in the state.
I would greatly appreciate any help you have to offer.
thanks,
Bernie Chavez

Published by Angelina Markle – Thu, 2013-02-21 17:15 | Permalink

Comment

Welcome to our group Bernie. I'm glad to have a fellow Chavez working with
us. My Chaves line is from Atoyac and Teocuitatlan de Corona in Jalisco ...
about an hour west of Guadalajara, hopefully we can make some sort of
connection.

Your message speaks of family lore ... have you found his baptismal record
yet?

-Angelina-

Published by mexicanfhr – Thu, 2013-02-21 21:52 | Permalink

Comment

Bernie,
Welcome to the group.

I would suggest checking the following links:
Bernardino Chavez: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1995 > Guadalajara > San Jose de Analco > Bautismos 1851-1863 > Image 505 of 732
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19362-35815-59?cc=1874591&wc…

Cenobio Chavez & Cristina Magallenes: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1995 > Guadalajara > San Jose de Analco > Matrimonios 1837-1868 > Image 500 of 728
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18686-119198-10?cc=1874591&w…

Maria Sebera Chavez: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1995 > Guadalajara > San Jose de Analco > Bautismos 1836-1843 > Image 555 of 620
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18382-20946-32?cc=1874591&wc…

The first link, is to the christening record for Bernardino Chavez (your great-grandfather).

The second link, is to the marriage record of your great-great-grandparents).

The third link, is to the christening record for Maria Sebera Chavez, a sister to your great-great-grandfather

With these three records, you should be able to trace your family back to your great-great-great-great-grandparents.

I hope that this is of help to you. And if you have any questions feel free to ask.

thanks,
Jonathan Walker

Published by mistyriver123 – Fri, 2013-02-22 02:15 | Permalink

Comment

Bernie...Welcome to the group.

I found a marriage record for Cenobio Chavez and Cristina Magallanas
29 December 1858 - in Guadalajara - San Jose de Analco -film M603868

They are also listed in Matrimonios 1857-1868 - from the heading of Guadalajara
then Parroquia de San Jose de Analco - Image 550 -

I am unable to decipher the names of the parents of Cenobio & Christina, who
are listed in this document hopefully, one of the primos on Nuestros Ranchos
can be of further assistance in reading the document.

Best wishes in your new journey.....
Helyn

________________________________
From: "Bernie Chavez, Jr."
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:18 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chavez

Hi. My name is Bernie Chavez.I am researching  My familywhich are from the
area around Guadalajara, Jalisco. Specifically, my great-grandfather,
Bernardino Chavez and his parents, Cenofio Chavez and Cristina (Magallanes)
Chavez all lived in this area.
Bernardino was, according to family lore, cristened In May of 1860 in the
Parroquia de San Jose de Analco in Guadalajara. Not much else is known
about his life in Mexico apart from that. We do know that he crossed the
border around the time of the revolution, 1909 or 1910.
My great grandmother, Luz (Mendoza) Chavez was born in or around 1891 to
Eleno and Cruzita Mendoza. again, not much is known of her, either. We are
sure that she lived in Jalisco, but most family stories about her are not
clear where in the state.
I would greatly appreciate any help you have to offer.
thanks,
Bernie Chavez

Published by Esther Jordan Lopez – Fri, 2013-02-22 08:45 | Permalink

Comment

The only exception is that the year for Matrimonios is 1837-1868, film
#38630, pg.81, Record #882 and what I got from this:

*Cenobio Chavez *was 19 years old when he married. His father and mother
were *Lorenzo Chavez and Juana Gaspar*. *Cristina Magallanes *was 16 years
old originaria de Santiago ______________________. Her father and mother
were *Jesus Magallanes and Andrea Moreno.
*
Armando could probably tell you the rest which is harder to read. I hope
this helps also.

--Esther

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 1:08 AM, Misty wrote:

> Bernie...Welcome to the group.
>
> I found a marriage record for Cenobio Chavez and Cristina Magallanas
> 29 December 1858 - in Guadalajara - San Jose de Analco -film M603868
>
> They are also listed in Matrimonios 1857-1868 - from the heading of
> Guadalajara
> then Parroquia de San Jose de Analco - Image 550 -
>
> I am unable to decipher the names of the parents of Cenobio & Christina,
> who
> are listed in this document hopefully, one of the primos on Nuestros
> Ranchos
> can be of further assistance in reading the document.
>
> Best wishes in your new journey.....
> Helyn
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Bernie Chavez, Jr."
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:18 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chavez
>
> Hi. My name is Bernie Chavez.I am researching My familywhich are from the
> area around Guadalajara, Jalisco. Specifically, my great-grandfather,
> Bernardino Chavez and his parents, Cenofio Chavez and Cristina (Magallanes)
> Chavez all lived in this area.
> Bernardino was, according to family lore, cristened In May of 1860 in the
> Parroquia de San Jose de Analco in Guadalajara. Not much else is known
> about his life in Mexico apart from that. We do know that he crossed the
> border around the time of the revolution, 1909 or 1910.
> My great grandmother, Luz (Mendoza) Chavez was born in or around 1891 to
> Eleno and Cruzita Mendoza. again, not much is known of her, either. We are
> sure that she lived in Jalisco, but most family stories about her are not
> clear where in the state.
> I would greatly appreciate any help you have to offer.
> thanks,
> Bernie Chavez

Published by Esther Jordan Lopez – Fri, 2013-02-22 10:30 | Permalink

Comment

Bernie,
In case you don't have this:

*Bernardino de Jesus Chavez Magallanes ch. 25 May 1860*. His birth being 6
days earlier in San Jose de Analco Guadalajara, Jalisco, *Film 38594
(1851-1863) Image 505. *This record confirms his parents and grandparents
on both sides.

--Esther

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 7:39 AM, Esther Jordan wrote:

> The only exception is that the year for Matrimonios is 1837-1868, film
> #38630, pg.81, Record #882 and what I got from this:
>
> *Cenobio Chavez *was 19 years old when he married. His father and mother
> were *Lorenzo Chavez and Juana Gaspar*. *Cristina Magallanes *was 16
> years old originaria de Santiago ______________________. Her father and
> mother were *Jesus Magallanes and Andrea Moreno.
> *
> Armando could probably tell you the rest which is harder to read. I hope
> this helps also.
>
> --Esther
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 1:08 AM, Misty wrote:
>
>> Bernie...Welcome to the group.
>>
>> I found a marriage record for Cenobio Chavez and Cristina Magallanas
>> 29 December 1858 - in Guadalajara - San Jose de Analco -film M603868
>>
>> They are also listed in Matrimonios 1857-1868 - from the heading of
>> Guadalajara
>> then Parroquia de San Jose de Analco - Image 550 -
>>
>> I am unable to decipher the names of the parents of Cenobio & Christina,
>> who
>> are listed in this document hopefully, one of the primos on Nuestros
>> Ranchos
>> can be of further assistance in reading the document.
>>
>> Best wishes in your new journey.....
>> Helyn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "Bernie Chavez, Jr."
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:18 PM
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chavez
>>
>> Hi. My name is Bernie Chavez.I am researching My familywhich are from the
>> area around Guadalajara, Jalisco. Specifically, my great-grandfather,
>> Bernardino Chavez and his parents, Cenofio Chavez and Cristina
>> (Magallanes)
>> Chavez all lived in this area.
>> Bernardino was, according to family lore, cristened In May of 1860 in the
>> Parroquia de San Jose de Analco in Guadalajara. Not much else is known
>> about his life in Mexico apart from that. We do know that he crossed the
>> border around the time of the revolution, 1909 or 1910.
>> My great grandmother, Luz (Mendoza) Chavez was born in or around 1891 to
>> Eleno and Cruzita Mendoza. again, not much is known of her, either. We are
>> sure that she lived in Jalisco, but most family stories about her are not
>> clear where in the state.
>> I would greatly appreciate any help you have to offer.
>> thanks,
>> Bernie Chavez

Published by Armando – Fri, 2013-02-22 17:00 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Esther,

I will try and do that a little later.

Saludos,
Armando

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Esther Jordan wrote:

> The only exception is that the year for Matrimonios is 1837-1868, film
> #38630, pg.81, Record #882 and what I got from this:
>
> *Cenobio Chavez *was 19 years old when he married. His father and mother
> were *Lorenzo Chavez and Juana Gaspar*. *Cristina Magallanes *was 16 years
> old originaria de Santiago ______________________. Her father and mother
> were *Jesus Magallanes and Andrea Moreno.
> *
> Armando could probably tell you the rest which is harder to read. I hope
> this helps also.
>
> --Esther
>
>

Published by Armando – Sat, 2013-02-23 08:15 | Permalink

Comment

En la Parroquia de Señor San José de Analco a veinticinco de Diciembre de
mil
ochocientos cincuenta y ocho Yo el Presbitero Don Joaquín Escoto cura
propio y ante
los testigos Don José Palacios y Nemecio Maldonado previa la información de
estilo y
publicada que se leyeron el doce, diez y nueve y veinticinco del presente
recepción
de los santos sacramentos de Penitencia y sagrada comunión, examen y
aprobación
en la Doctrina Cristiana de ambos contrayentes tomé de manos según el
orden de N. S. M, Y. á Cenobio Chavez soltero de diez y nueve años de edad
originario y vecino de este Curato hijo legitimo de Lorenzo Chavez que vive
y de
Juana Gaspar difunta con Cristina Magallanes doncella y de diez y seis años
de edad originario de Santiago Yscuintla y vecina de este ____ cuatro años
hija
legitima de Jesus Magallanes difunto y Andrea Moreno que vive fueron sus
padrinos Juan Najar y Carmen Chavez y lo firmé

Joaquín Escoto

I had to compare other marriage entries by Joaquín Escoto to understand it
all. Santiago Ixcuintla is in Nayarit.

Lorenso de Jesus Chávez and Juana de Dios Gaspar were married 23 May 1827
in Tonalá

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18570-36115-22?cc=1874591&wc…

The parents of Lorenzo Chávez were José María Chávez and María Valentina
Casillas married 11 Jan 1805 in Tonalá

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18559-59991-69?cc=1874591&wc…

Saludos,
Armando

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Esther Jordan wrote:

> The only exception is that the year for Matrimonios is 1837-1868, film
> #38630, pg.81, Record #882 and what I got from this:
>
> *Cenobio Chavez *was 19 years old when he married. His father and mother
> were *Lorenzo Chavez and Juana Gaspar*. *Cristina Magallanes *was 16 years
> old originaria de Santiago ______________________. Her father and mother
> were *Jesus Magallanes and Andrea Moreno.
> *
> Armando could probably tell you the rest which is harder to read. I hope
> this helps also.
>
> --Esther
>
>

Published by Miramontes – Fri, 2013-02-22 16:45 | Permalink

Comment

The baptism is 25 May 1860. It's in Family Search. You have to order the index C60385-9.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 5:07 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 85, Issue 15

Send Research mailing list submissions to
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Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
DAILY DIGEST
****************************************

Today's Topics:

1. Chavez (Bernie Chavez, Jr.)
2. Re: Welcome to the Group Bernie Chavez (angelina@markleweb.com)
3. Re: Chavez (Misty)
4. Re: Chavez (Esther Jordan)
5. Re: Chavez (Esther Jordan)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:18:50 -0700
From: "Bernie Chavez, Jr."
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chavez
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi. My name is Bernie Chavez.I am researching My familywhich are from the area around Guadalajara, Jalisco. Specifically, my great-grandfather, Bernardino Chavez and his parents, Cenofio Chavez and Cristina (Magallanes) Chavez all lived in this area.
Bernardino was, according to family lore, cristened In May of 1860 in the Parroquia de San Jose de Analco in Guadalajara. Not much else is known about his life in Mexico apart from that. We do know that he crossed the border around the time of the revolution, 1909 or 1910.
My great grandmother, Luz (Mendoza) Chavez was born in or around 1891 to Eleno and Cruzita Mendoza. again, not much is known of her, either. We are sure that she lived in Jalisco, but most family stories about her are not clear where in the state.
I would greatly appreciate any help you have to offer.
thanks,
Bernie Chavez

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:13:23 -0800
From:
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Welcome to the Group Bernie Chavez
Message-ID: <10D4399B06EE4849AAA689E4FF4E0AA3@ariel>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Welcome to our group Bernie. I'm glad to have a fellow Chavez working with us. My Chaves line is from Atoyac and Teocuitatlan de Corona in Jalisco ...
about an hour west of Guadalajara, hopefully we can make some sort of connection.

Your message speaks of family lore ... have you found his baptismal record yet?

-Angelina-

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:08:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Misty
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chavez
Message-ID:
<1361524130.45272.YahooMailNeo@web141002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Bernie...Welcome to the group.

I found a marriage record for Cenobio Chavez and Cristina Magallanas
29 December 1858 - in Guadalajara - San Jose de Analco -film M603868

They are also listed in Matrimonios 1857-1868 - from the heading of Guadalajara then Parroquia de San Jose de Analco - Image 550 -

I am unable to decipher the names of the parents of Cenobio & Christina, who are listed in this document hopefully, one of the primos on Nuestros Ranchos can be of further assistance in reading the document.

Best wishes in your new journey.....
Helyn

________________________________
From: "Bernie Chavez, Jr."
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:18 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chavez

Hi. My name is Bernie Chavez.I am researching? My familywhich are from the area around Guadalajara, Jalisco. Specifically, my great-grandfather, Bernardino Chavez and his parents, Cenofio Chavez and Cristina (Magallanes) Chavez all lived in this area.
Bernardino was, according to family lore, cristened In May of 1860 in the Parroquia de San Jose de Analco in Guadalajara. Not much else is known about his life in Mexico apart from that. We do know that he crossed the border around the time of the revolution, 1909 or 1910.
My great grandmother, Luz (Mendoza) Chavez was born in or around 1891 to Eleno and Cruzita Mendoza. again, not much is known of her, either. We are sure that she lived in Jalisco, but most family stories about her are not clear where in the state.
I would greatly appreciate any help you have to offer.
thanks,
Bernie Chavez

Help Reading a Dispensa

Published by abram101 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi there team,

I'm having such a hard time reading and understanding this dispensa so if anyone can please help thanks.=]

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Fri, 2013-02-22 19:10 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Abram,

I understand dating back to the times of the Roman Empire women could get married as young as 14. Also, you could be in your 20's and still need the permission of your parents to get married. In the case of Pioquinto, his parents were already dead. Regarding your other post, maybe you should not try to index the Guadalajara Dispensas until you have more experience reading them, otherwise you may write down incorrect or incomplete information. You just have to keep reading until you become familiarized with the writing, spelling variations and abbreviations used.

This is what I can read in the dispensa:
Theocaltiche, January 9, 1913

Groom: Anttº Ximenes (Antonio Jiménez), legitimate son of Diego Ximenes & Cathalina de Arellanos, Españoles, neighbours of the Partido de Nochistlan.

Bride: Juana de Arze (Arce), legitimate dauther of Juan de Arze & Petrona Martines de Alarcon, deceased (only her),neighbours of this town (They also call her Petra, and these names may or not be an abbreviation of Petronila)

Lorenzo de Rubalcava, great grandfather of the groom, was the brother of Josepha Bapta (Baptista) de Rublacava, great grandmother of the bride,

Lorenzo was the father of Agueda de Rubalcava (grandmother of the groom), and Cathalina was the mother of the groom (they don't spell out the relationship between Agueda and Cathalina)

Josepha Bapta de Rublacava was the great grandmother of the bride; Joseph Martinez de Alarcon was the grandfather of the bride, and he was the father of Petra, mother of the bride (they don't spell out the relationship between Josepha and Joseph).

Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Thu, 2013-02-21 11:16 | Permalink

Comment

Nochistlán, March 11, 1796

Groom: Pioquinto García, Español, 15 years old, born and living in Puesto de Nanguè, legitimate son of Christoval Garcia and Ana Maria Lopez (both deceased).

Bride: Maria Estefana de Yslas, Española, 15 years old, born and living in Puesto de Nanguè, legitimate daughter of Josef Maria de Yslas and Juana Ma. de Quesada.

Ygancio López (maternal grandfather of the groom) and Lugarda López (paternal grandmother of the bride) were siblings.

Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

Victoriano,

Thanks lots it's breath taking how young my ancestors would marry.I suppose their parents agreed on this.

I also need help on another dispensa im sorry if this is to much to ask for.This Dispensa is for Antonio Ximenez Y Juana De Arce.

Obviously these two were related Antonio Ximenez great grandfather Lorenzo Rubalcava was brother with Juana De Arce great grandmother Josepha Baptista De Rubalcava.And that is all i can understand I actually want understand the whole dispensa here but the writing is just to unbearable to read.Would you please help me?or point out some interesting factors here?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18418-36879-14?cc=1874591&wc…

Published by katy_brecht_quesada – Wed, 2013-02-20 23:27 | Permalink

Comment

this doucment states that they share the 3rd degeree of consanguity(aka. technical term for second cousins) this doucment also states the parents of the groom and bride.

the next page states how they are related in the 1st testigo paragraph.

pioquinto's maternal grandpa-ygnacio lopez, and estfana's paternal grandma- lugarda lopez, are silings.

Dr. Jean Stuntz' Speech is Online

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
Announcements and Events

I just wanted to let you all know that Dr. Jean Stuntz' Speech for the
Los Béxareños August meeting is available on the Nuestra Familia Unida
podcast project:

http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com/podcast/mujer.html

Comments

Early marriages from Ojo Caliente, Zacatecas

Published by gpf13 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

The online films for marriages for Ojo Calientes, Zacatecas date from 1861, which is consistent with the LDS Family History Library catalog.

Comments

Published by superhorrible – Wed, 2013-02-20 22:17 | Permalink

Comment

George, You are out of luck. For marriages from Ojo Caliente you need to check the matrimonial investigations prior 1861. The marriage book is missing. If you don't find what you are looking for check San Francisco de los Adame, Guadalupe and El Sagrario. Another option also is that the Baptismal records from Ojo Caliente includes the name of the grandparents that is very nice. Good Luck. Susana

Comment

Susana

Thanks for the reply; that, unfortunately, is what I expected. The matrimonial investigations do go back to the early 1700, so not all is lost!

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Could someone help translate ? Baptism record of Rosa Rodriguez

Published by monicarice7777 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

En La Parroquia del Sagrario á treinta de Setiembre de mil ochocientos ochocenta y nueve, el Pbro. D.

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Thu, 2013-02-21 11:01 | Permalink

Comment

I agree, chances of having another Gerónima, daughter of Ygnacio and Teófila are slim. The only thing that doesn't is the surname of the mother, Espino VS Espinosa, although being the maternal surname, maybe they din't use it much and got confused over the years. I think each researcher has to decide how much information is good enough for them in order to make a connection. Is 50% confidence good enough? 75%? 95%?

I had a case similar to yours, although the surname of the mother was completely different in the marriage and baptism records of her three children. However, since the names and ages of all the children matched in both kinds of records, as well as their place of birth, I assumed for some reason they didn't really know their mother's surname.

Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Wed, 2013-02-20 08:30 | Permalink

Comment

The matching birthday date would be a great clue to pinpoint that you found someone's birth or baptism certificate, however in this case the feast of San Geronimo (Saint Jerome) falls on September 30th, so many children born or baptized on or around that day may have been named Geronimo or Geronima.
Also, when calculating birth years from age, one has to consider whether the person already had a birthday or not that year. In your case the documents are from October and the birthday was on September, so you can do a simple subtraction of year minus age.
Although the record says they were Evangelicos, if at least one of them was Catholic they may have had a Catholic wedding as well, so you may see if there is any additional information in those records (they did baptize Rosa as Catholic, right?).

Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Published by monicarice7777 – Wed, 2013-02-20 23:38 | Permalink

Comment

Yes, her daughter Rosa was baptized catholic. I started my search first in Sargario Parish where Rosa was born but have not found anything.
In each of the records that I find for my gg Geronima she is a different age:
Marriage on 9 Ocotober 1888 age 21 Zacatecas, Zacatecas
1930 Texas census 12 April age 65
1940 Texas census 11 April age 69
I keep in mind that she was born on September 30th. I am positive that all three records are my GG records. Would she have possibly gone back to her home town to marry ? I know she was a devoted Catholic because I was told she was very upset when my Grandfather converted to Free Masonary and My Great Aunt converted to Protestant religions.You said it was common to name the child Geronima but would it also be a common coincidence that Geromima Ramirez Espino parents name would be the same, being Ygnacio and Maria Teofila ? They are the only two I find living and married together in San Luis Potosi where My GG Geronima Ramirez was born. I have yet to find my GG father's Jose Ynez's birth record either. I was told he died very young. Rosa was born 18889, Abraham 1902 and Mercedes 1910. So I know he was alive until 1909? Thanks again so much. I love this web site.
Monica Torres-Rice

Published by monicarice7777 – Tue, 2013-02-19 23:13 | Permalink

Comment

My Great Grandfather was born and Married in Zactecas , Zacatecas. I am looking to verify if Maria Geronima Espino from San Luis Potosi is the same as Geronima Ramirez who married in Zacatecas, Zacatecas. I know from thier marriage record in 1888 it names My GG Geronima's parents as Ygnacio Ramires and Maria Teofila Espinosa. The name Ygancio Ramires matches but his wife's name is Maria Teofila Espino. I was told by family that Teofila was from Spain but I have not verified that as of yet. My gg Geronima used the birthdate 30 Sept 1864 but after finding marriage doc it said she was age 21 on would place her birth about 1867. Maria Geronima's baptism doc says she is 8 days old and baptism took place on 7 October 1866 which would make her birthdate 30 September 1866 ? Any insight would help...Monica Torres-Rice

Marriage Reference : Image pages 304 and 323; reference no 847, 895, & 896
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22164-19088-79?cc=1916240…

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Tue, 2013-02-19 22:26 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Monica,

I've seen birth certificates of siblings where they give the names and ages of parents and names of grandparents. After doing the math, sometimes the birth year of a parent is off by a few years form record to record. So, unless you find the birth or baptism certificate of a person, the age you calculate based on the information they give is many times approximate. If you go back a few centuries you will start seeing documents where they say that the person has "more or less" so many years of age.

I have a branch of Evangélicos in my family. They were not Catholic, however, many of them were baptized as Catholics, so I guess they converted later in life.

As for Jose Ynez Rodriguez, if he was baptized in another town it may be hard to find him. Keep looking in familysearch every now and then. Maybe one of these days someone will index a record of him and put the information online.

Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Tue, 2013-02-19 20:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Monica,

I think in most cases newborns were baptized in the local parish, but sometimes they would take the baby to another town in order to be baptized. That was the case with my parents, they took them to the town where their godparents lived. In any case, many times they mention the place where the baby was born. The age people declare in their marriage records may be off by plus or minus five years or so. They didn't use to keep great track of their age back in the day.

Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

Hi Victoriano, I did find in my GGParents marriage record that they were said to be 22 and 21 of age. We're they pretty accurate about birthdays if they are documented? And i'm still wondering if she would have a church document ? It reads as a civil register and underneath their names is the word "Evangelico" does this mean they were not Catholic ? My GG Mother always used the year 1864 but after finding her marriage record she would be born 1867. My GG mother's death cert said she was 95 but i'm not sure if my grandfather just told them that's how old she was when she passed. I was told that my GG father Jose Ynez Rodriguez died at an early age but I have been unable to locate any other documents birth or death. The marriage certificate says he was born in Zacatecas, Zacatecas. Is there another town I should be looking for those documents in ? Thank you, Monica Torres-Rice

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Tue, 2013-02-19 10:34 | Permalink

Comment

This is how one may interpret the information:
Date: September 30, 1889
Priest: Esteban Alvares
Baptized girl: Rosa (born in Zacatecas on August 30, at 4:00 AM)
Parents: Jose Ynez Rodriguez & Geronima Ramirez
Paternal grandparents: Juan Rodriguez & Francisca Alva
Maternal grandparents; Ygnacio Ramirez & Teofila Espinosa
Godparents (Padrinos, P.): Norberto Guzman & Serapia Guzman.

It does say that Horberto (¿Norberto?) and Serapia have the same surname (Guzman) and they are abbreviating the names of the grandfathers by not writing down their surnames (since they already mentioned them when naming the parents).

Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

Thank you for helping me clear up my understanding. I thought the P. was Teofila Espinosa's middle initial. Do you know if people would normally baptize children in nearby Parishes of where they lived or would they travel some distance. I am trying to locate birth records for Jose Ynez Rodriguez. On his marriage certificate it says he was born in Zactecas, Zacatecas about 1866. But I find no birth record for him in that year in the City of Zacatecas. Thank you, again, Monica Torres-Rice

"Hijo (and Hija) de la Iglesia"

Published by BiblioRanger –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Just wondering - I found the marriage record (1688) where both my 8th GGF and GGM are listed as children of the church. Does anyone know the significance of this? Are they orphans?

Comments

Comment

That would be as Linda said, parents unknown. The child was left at the doorstep of the church by person or persons unknown.

Alicia,

San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "casavolver@lpbroadband.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:38 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hija de la iglesia

Carolyn Gomez Duran
What is the answer?

Comment

Alicia what do you think happens to door step babies (expuestos) were they usually turned over to the church? I seldom see them in the lineage of the family that baptized them.
Linda

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hija de la iglesia

That would be as Linda said, parents unknown. The child was left at the doorstep of the church by person or persons unknown.

Alicia,

San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "casavolver@lpbroadband.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:38 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hija de la iglesia

Carolyn Gomez Duran
What is the answer?

Comment

Linda,

I wish I knew the answer. I also wonder about that. I know that in the Municipio of Nochistlan, the church took the indians under their wing as directed by the hierarchy and it was the indians who became the parish scribes and who received an education rather than the espanoles because they were taught by the church leaders.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hija de la iglesia

Alicia what do you think happens to door step babies (expuestos) were they usually turned over to the church? I seldom see them in the lineage of the family that baptized them.
Linda

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hija de la iglesia
 
That would be as Linda said, parents unknown. The child was left at the doorstep of the church by person or persons unknown.

Alicia,

San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "casavolver@lpbroadband.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:38 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hija de la iglesia

Carolyn Gomez Duran
What is the answer?

Juan Lopes de Lara y Doña Catalina de Nava su hermana

Published by Lawrence Bouett –
Forums
Genealogy Research

The above-captioned individuals are padrinos at the baptism of Carlos Ximénes de Castro in Lagos de Moreno in 1648; can anyone shed some documented light on who they are, and what relationship they h

Comments

Published by Armando – Mon, 2013-02-18 18:39 | Permalink

Comment

Juan López de Lara and Doña Catalina de Nava were siblings of María López de Lara. All three were children of Andrés López de Lara and María González de Villegas y López de Nava. María López de Lara also had children named Catalina and Juan.

Armando

Comment

Armando,

Thanks for that information; can you provide any documentation?

In addition to the three children named (Carlos, Catalina, and Juan), María Lópes de Nava and Antonio Ximénes de Castro also had Juan de Díos (b. unk., m. Francisca Gutiérres de Mendosa Camacho), Antonio (bap. 16 oct 1646) and Fabiana (m. 30 jul 1699). Carlos was baptized 22 feb 1648.

Lawrence Bouett

Comment

Juan was baptized 12 Oct 1618 film 221879 image 293

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18576-10063-41?cc=1874591&wc…

Catalina married 25 Mar 1650 film 221404 image 389

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-24109-12?cc=1874591&wc…

More info on this family can be found in Retoños de España en La Nueva Galicia (2011) by Mariano González Leal. I recommend that you try and find a copy of the 10 volume collection even though there are some errors in it.

Armando

Family History Centers

Published by V.Q.C. –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I've been recently thinking about ordering certain microfilms from FamilySearch to view them at my local Family History Center.

Comments

Published by gpf13 – Mon, 2013-02-18 21:33 | Permalink

Comment

VQC

While you can certainly view films at a Family History Center (FHC), you should first take a look at the Family Search website and see what is available on line. The site is at https://www.familysearch.org/

If you decide or order a film, the film ordering process is handled through this same website. You must be a registered user to order films.

There is a nominal charge for a short term loan; you can extend the loan (for a fee), as well as get the film on permanent loan (another fee) at the FHC. The fee is paid when you make the order. The film can only be used at the FHC, and is viewed their with a microfilm reader. Some centers will have a film scanner, or other printing capabilities. These are different machines than the reader.

The microfilm readers project an image from the film on a white screen; it is not computerized. The microfilm readers usually have a zoom feature, but cannot invert the image (that is, make a positive image into a negative image).

The online images are of high quality, unless of course, the original documents are in poor condition, and can be saved on your computer. At the FHC you can usually save a scanned image to a flash drive. The online images are superior to those scanned at a FHC.

Some of the online images can only be viewed at a FHC, although this is not the case for the films for Mexico. In some cases (again, not for Mexico) there are other restrictions.

The volunteers at the FHC will assist with the microfilm readers.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Help Reading a 1669 Marriage Record From Lagos de Moreno

Published by Lawrence Bouett –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have a marriage record that I'm having a bit of trouble reading.

Comments

Published by Armando – Mon, 2013-02-18 15:02 | Permalink

Comment

The second surname of Juan de Torres is Villasana. Look at the letter s in the word vesino, they are written the same. Same thing for the second s in sesentainueve años. He is adding a loop at the bottom of the s in order to get the pen over to the next letter. Because of that this priest wrote the letter s in three different forms.

Also read the following thread www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19186

Armando

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Mon, 2013-02-18 13:43 | Permalink

Comment

I think it says:
En treinta dias del mes de julio de 16/69 ..... alferes /
Juan de Torres Villavana vesino (vecino) de la siudad (cuidad) de San Luis con/
lisensia que traxo de su lejitimo parrocho (licencia que trajo de su legítimo párroco). hijo lijitimo/
de Juº de Torres Villavana entaiador (entallador) i voluntario de la siu/dad
de San Luis i de Dª Ysavel de Leida i Teran. Con Dª Fa/
biana Jimenes de Castro donsella. hija lijitima del cappn./
Dn Antonio Jimenes de Castro i de Dª Maria Lopes de Lara/
difunta. aviendo echo las dilijensias (habiendo hecho las diligencias ...)

Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Rodriguez De Santana

Published by abram101 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi there every one,

Comments

Published by Armando – Sun, 2013-02-17 19:43 | Permalink

Comment

Today is your lucky day. You need to thank Claudia Casillas and Rosalinda Ruiz for posting an index of dispensas 1724-1725 Film 168367 because it includes a dispensa for Fabian Rodríguez & Margarita Pérez. I think the best way you could pay them back is by helping with the indexing of at least one film.

http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/2013/02/1724-1725-fhl-source-film-1…

Armando

Comment

Hi there Armando,

Thanks for all the help, and excuse my ignorance but i have no clue on how to locate a dispensation record.I also have no clue what it is.
May you please explain to me what a dispensation is and how to locate it Familysearch.org?I went to the link you gave and i found the names Fabian Rodriguez and Margarita Perez and there is a number in the beginning(071)what does that number stand for?It would be an honor to do so again excuse my ignorance because i also have no clue on how to index a film sorry for being completely ignorant.

Comment

Hi Abram,

Towards the top of each page of indexed dispensation records on Claudia's blog, Guadalajara Dispensas, there's a link to the film itself, right after the term "Source film." That link takes you to the first page of the film being indexed. The number 071 refers to the image number, 71, which you type into the box on the page-- that is why we index, so you don't have to search page-by-page.

Here's the link for the record for Fabian and Margarita: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18417-37963-26?cc=1874591&wc… .

The record does identify the parents of both people-- I'll let you read that part.

Good luck!

Rosalinda Ruiz

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Sun, 2013-02-17 12:32 | Permalink

Comment

Unfortunately in many marriage records when groom is a widower, instead of writing the names of his parents they would write down the name of the late wife (same for widows marrying). So, if the parents are not mentioned in the first marriage, then you have to search for other documents as Armando says.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Published by Armando – Sun, 2013-02-17 12:01 | Permalink

Comment

You should look for the records of Información Matrimonial to see of the parents are mentioned there. You should also look for the records of marriages and Información Matrimonial of children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. Once you have looked for all of those you should look for dispensas of children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.

This is the same process you should be using for everyone you have not found ancestors for.

Since you have so many ancestors in Nochistlán it would be worth your time to index all of the Información Matrimonial records. You can make a spreadsheet with names of the bride and the groom and their parents and the date. It can be time consuming but you it will likely help you a lot.

Armando

i'm a bit confused on this marriage dispensations

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Forums
Genealogy Research

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18405-8602-36?cc=1874591&wc=…

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Sun, 2013-02-17 12:19 | Permalink

Comment

It says:
Y antes de que fuese casado con Maria Carrillo el dicho Pedro Cid Caldera tubo (tuvo) por hija natural a Franca. Cid Caldera.
Before being married to María Carrillo, the said Pedro Cid Caldera had Francisca Cid Caldera as a love child.
So, it seems that only Pedro was her biological parent.
Also, there are two persons named Pedro Cid Caldera: The father, married to Maria Carrillo, and their son, married to Juana Rosales.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Looking for birth record for Jose Ynes Rodriguez born @1866 in Zacatecas, Mexico

Published by monicarice7777 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello, I'm needing help to find Jose Ynes Rodriguez's birth and death record. I found his marriage document in Zacatecas, Mexico on 9 November 1888. He was a shoe maker in Zactecas, Zacatecas.

Comments

Published by monicarice7777 – Thu, 2013-02-14 09:53 | Permalink

Comment

I found My GGF Jose Ynes Rodriguez and Geronima Ramirez's marriage in the Civil Registeration of Zacatecas,Zacatecas Anos 1888-89. Under the number 842 it reads their names and the word "Evangelicos."Does this mean they were not married in the catholic church ? Thank you for any insight. Monica

Published by gpf13 – Tue, 2013-02-12 21:10 | Permalink

Comment

Monica

Is there a Catholic church marriage for Jose? If so, then there should be a matrimonial investigation. Sometimes matrimonial investigations will have baptismal information, ocassionally even a specific citation for the baptismal record (volume and number or page).

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Any suggestions?

Published by lorenzocarrillo94 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello everyone , sorry i haven't been on here much anymore. We lost my grandmother to cancer In October and had lots of things going on and didnt do too much genealogical work.

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Thu, 2013-02-14 08:28 | Permalink

Comment

You can also try geni.com , although they may link your tree to others not well researched at all.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Who's Stuck? Who Doesn't Know Where To Start?

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Are you stuck? Are you wondering where to start? Well one good place would be to ask your questions on the research@nuestrosranchos.org list. We might not be able to help but we'll try.

If you are just starting out in genealogy then you need to familiarize yourself with your local Family History Center. Your local FHC is part of the LDS church and is an absolute goldmine of information for Mexican Genealogy and other locations around the world. Go to www.familysearch.org to find your closest location with the best hours to fit your schedule: go to the site and click on "Library" and "Family History Centers" to find your location. Give them a call and pay them a visit. Ask questions about how the center works.

Comments

Published by cavilah – Mon, 2007-01-15 20:11 | Permalink

Comment

Hi, there. This information is very helpful (Thanks!) and I agree that the LDS sites are ideal locations to start looking but, in my case, I know for a fact that the records prior to the 1955 in Momax, Zacatecas (possibly Tlaltenango, also), were destroyed by student protesters, so I doubt that I'll have much luck going that route. I have been able to get to a certain point from information I recieved from my mother, but it seems that I have many branches out there where I got stuck and couldn't proceed. I'm hoping someone from my area (Tlaltenango, Momax, Atolinga) and surnames (Ávila, Álva, Haro, Campos, Róbles, etc.) search can share with me their information in case I can tie our lines at a certain level where the may have branched out. I have a PAF & gedcom (??) file in case anyone wants to peruse it. I really don't know where I can post any of this for you all to look at, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

OK, I think I'm rambling, but I hope someone understands what I'm trying to get at!!! :-)

Comment

I was told the films were copied by the LDS at the capitol and not in each town or village. There were always at least 2 copies for the records, one stayed in each parrish and the second went into the main archives. It could be wrong but this is what I was told at the history center. There may still be hope for you to find your info..
Linda in Everett

cavilah wrote:

Hi, there. This information is very helpful (Thanks!) and I agree that the LDS sites are ideal locations to start looking but, in my case, I know for a fact that the records prior to the 1955 in Momax, Zacatecas (possibly Tlaltenango, also), were destroyed by student protesters, so I doubt that I'll have much luck going that route. I have been able to get to a certain point from information I recieved from my mother, but it seems that I have many branches out there where I got stuck and couldn't proceed. I'm hoping someone from my area (Tlaltenango, Momax, Atolinga) and surnames (Ávila, Álva, Haro, Campos, Róbles, etc.) search can share with me their information in case I can tie our lines at a certain level where the may have branched out. I have a PAF & gedcom (??) file in case anyone wants to peruse it. I really don't know where I can post any of this for you all to look at, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

OK, I think I'm rambling, but I hope someone understands what I'm trying to get at!!! :-)

Comment

Hi, Linda, thanks for that information. I so hope you are correct because then I can get ahead in this search of mine. I do appreciate your input!

Cristina in California

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
I was told the films were copied by the LDS at the capitol and not in each town or village. There were always at least 2 copies for the records, one stayed in each parrish and the second went into the main archives. It could be wrong but this is what I was told at the history center. There may still be hope for you to find your info..
Linda in Everett

cavilah wrote:

Hi, there. This information is very helpful (Thanks!) and I agree that the LDS sites are ideal locations to start looking but, in my case, I know for a fact that the records prior to the 1955 in Momax, Zacatecas (possibly Tlaltenango, also), were destroyed by student protesters, so I doubt that I'll have much luck going that route. I have been able to get to a certain point from information I recieved from my mother, but it seems that I have many branches out there where I got stuck and couldn't proceed. I'm hoping someone from my area (Tlaltenango, Momax, Atolinga) and surnames (Ávila, Álva, Haro, Campos, Róbles, etc.) search can share with me their information in case I can tie our lines at a certain level where the may have branched out. I have a PAF & gedcom (??) file in case anyone wants to peruse it. I really don't know where I can post any of this for you all to look at, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

OK, I think I'm rambling, but I hope someone understands what I'm trying to get at!!! :-)

Comment

Cristina:

Whoever told you that records in these towns prior to 1955 were destroyed misinformed you. While civil records may be missing for some years, the church records are very complete for Tlaltenango (back to about 1630) and Atolinga (back to the founding of San Cayetano in 1788 or so) and exist with some years missing for Momax also back to that parrish's founding in 1776. Best of all, nearly all of these records are indexed.

What you will have to have is the names of your ancestors who were baptized or married prior to 1880 or so because LDS has not indexed beyond that year.

I tried looking at your genealogy files, but they are very difficult to decipher, as they are not in any standard format and have many of the older ancestors marked as living and with no birth dates or marriage dates. As guidance, GEDCOMs should not be posted in file folders, they should be uploaded to the GEDCOM database and files that are uploaded should NOT contain any living person's information. If you post things in the file folders ideally they should be Ahnentafel or register charts in text.

I share most of your surnames and have a great deal of information on the Haros of Tlaltenango. If you can organize your information and point us to a specific lineage where you are having trouble, I am sure there are members that would be willing to help.

Comment

Arturo, thanks so much for that information. I will have to check with my mom because this is the information that she has. I don't know where she got it, but she had told me that the years prior to her birth year (1956) had been destroyed. I will have to let her know in case there was a misunderstanding. Thanks again for pointing this out. :-) As for my files, I apologize por posting them in the wrong place, but I didn't know where else to post them. I tried uploading it in the gedcom area, but it kept asking me for a password and I would put my usual password and was getting an error message. I asked for my password to be e-mailed to me, but when I tried to use that password (which seemed to have been automatically generated), I still was unsuccessful logging in to that area of the website. Anyway, I know my file is very difficult to understand, but the reason is that I do not know where to start and I only have information passed down from my family. I will try
to get everything organized so that I can share it with the group and hopefully get a lead to follow.

Thanks, again, and please all keep checking my files for updates. I will try really hard to get them all squared away.

Cristina

arturoramos wrote:

Cristina:

Whoever told you that records in these towns prior to 1955 were destroyed misinformed you. While civil records may be missing for some years, the church records are very complete for Tlaltenango (back to about 1630) and Atolinga (back to the founding of San Cayetano in 1788 or so) and exist with some years missing for Momax also back to that parrish's founding in 1776. Best of all, nearly all of these records are indexed.

What you will have to have is the names of your ancestors who were baptized or married prior to 1880 or so because LDS has not indexed beyond that year.

I tried looking at your genealogy files, but they are very difficult to decipher, as they are not in any standard format and have many of the older ancestors marked as living and with no birth dates or marriage dates. As guidance, GEDCOMs should not be posted in file folders, they should be uploaded to the GEDCOM database and files that are uploaded should NOT contain any living person's information. If you post things in the file folders ideally they should be Ahnentafel or register charts in text.

I share most of your surnames and have a great deal of information on the Haros of Tlaltenango. If you can organize your information and point us to a specific lineage where you are having trouble, I am sure there are members that would be willing to help.

Comment

Cristina:

As I wrote in an earlier message, there are many entries in the LDS databases of the extracts from Momax and Tlaltenango for your family. I think that is where you need to focus and start ordering films that are relevant to fill in the information.

If you would like to upload a GEDCOM just let me or Joseph know and we can create a tree for you in the GEDCOM database. You do not need to log on to that database seperately. Just click on the GEDCOM menu item once you have logged into Nuestros Ranchos. You can only read records unless we create a special tree for you to upload and edit records.

See the record I found for one of your ancestor's marriage. This would be a good film to order so that you can find the names of the parents of these two individuals.

ATANACIO CAMPOS
Spouse: NATIVIDAD CORNEJO
Marriage:
24 JAN 1877 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico
Batch: M607146 Film: 0443974

Comment

Arturo, thanks for all our help with this. I think I'm starting to get the hang of it. I found a lot of records already, just by going on familysearch.com. I thought the info. you found was for my great-grandfather, but it turns out to be another person with the same name. Anyway, you gave some see good ideas for my search. Can I e-mail you my file so you can create a tree for me. I do want to start filling in the blanks, but for now I have some placeholders in just so you can see the names. I only put that for the deceased for which I don't have deceased dates. Anway, maybe you can take a look at it and tell me if you think I have too little or too much on it. I think I started adding people that maybe I shouldn't be adding yet and just concentrate on one branch, to start.

Well, again, thanks for all of your help, as well as to all the members who have already helped me so much!!!

Cristina

arturoramos wrote:

Cristina:

As I wrote in an earlier message, there are many entries in the LDS databases of the extracts from Momax and Tlaltenango for your family. I think that is where you need to focus and start ordering films that are relevant to fill in the information.

If you would like to upload a GEDCOM just let me or Joseph know and we can create a tree for you in the GEDCOM database. You do not need to log on to that database seperately. Just click on the GEDCOM menu item once you have logged into Nuestros Ranchos. You can only read records unless we create a special tree for you to upload and edit records.

See the record I found for one of your ancestor's marriage. This would be a good film to order so that you can find the names of the parents of these two individuals.

ATANACIO CAMPOS
Spouse: NATIVIDAD CORNEJO
Marriage:
24 JAN 1877 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico
Batch: M607146 Film: 0443974

Comment

Cristina:

Yes, please email me what you have and I will try to organize it for you and create an Anhentafel or register table for you to post in your file folder. Did you take the files you had in there down?

One question, why do you think that this Atanacio Campos is not your ancestor? The dates and the name of the spouse seem to match the information you provided in your first introductory email.

One rule that should always be followed is that you have to go one generation at a time. It is always tempting to skip to the next generation based on a hunch or oral history when one is stuck, but it is imperative that each generation's link to the next is well documented. Otherwise, the basis for the genealogy falls apart.

I will send you a personal message with my email address.

Comment

Thank you so much for your willingess to help. I know that I get ahead of myself, but this is all a new experience for me and I get so excited when I see a possible ancestor. I will try to reign in my emotions, lol, and go about this a little more logically. For now, I have mostly added only that I am sure of. For example, I obtained the names from my mother first, then looked them up to verify. That is how I found additional details such as birth dates and marriage dates to add. I suppose I should just try to complete one at a time before I continue. I just felt that the more info. I had on anyone, the more leads it could provide to find the next ancestor. Anyway, I will be very patient and do as suggested and, with your help and everyone elses, I'm sure it will be for the best. As for this Atanacio Campos, the reason I know he is not my great-grandfather is because his parents' names were Valentín Campos Campos and Cruz Mota (his full name is Atanacio Campos
Mota) and he was married to María de Jesús Campos Cornejo, hence my grandmother being a Campos Campos. :-) Have you noticed this occurence in your family, where you have families marrying their own relatives? My brother calls our family the "Mexican Hillbillies..." LOL! For example, my grandfather is Haro Haro and his wife, my grandmother, is Campos Campos. Already we see a pattern, yet it doesn't stop there. My granmother turns out to me my grandfather's distant Aunt and also his cousin, or some such strange thing...It is so hard to keep track of the connections!!!

Cristina

P.S. I did delete my files so as not to confuse anyone else!!! I will be sending you my files, shortly. Thanks, again!

arturoramos wrote:

Cristina:

Yes, please email me what you have and I will try to organize it for you and create an Anhentafel or register table for you to post in your file folder. Did you take the files you had in there down?

One question, why do you think that this Atanacio Campos is not your ancestor? The dates and the name of the spouse seem to match the information you provided in your first introductory email.

One rule that should always be followed is that you have to go one generation at a time. It is always tempting to skip to the next generation based on a hunch or oral history when one is stuck, but it is imperative that each generation's link to the next is well documented. Otherwise, the basis for the genealogy falls apart.

I will send you a personal message with my email address.

Comment

Cristina:

The name "Atanacio" is very unique as is the surname "Cornejo" thus I would venture to guess that there is a high likelihood that this Natividad Cornejo is the same person as Maria de Jesus Campos Cornejo. It is not uncommon to find people changing their name during their lives or having priests write down a wrong name, having the name mistranscribed by the person extracting the records or having someone misremember a name (incorrect oral history).

The fact that you have someone with the name "Atanacio Campos" marrying someone with the surname "Cornejo" should be enough to get you to look at the record. You will note that there is another entry for an Atanacio Campos marriage in Momax a decade later. This may be the same person remarrying.

ATANASIO CAMPOS
Marriages:
Spouse: AURELIA VALDIVIA
About 20 AUG 1885 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas
Batch No. M600845 Film No. 0444019

Alternatively, the name Atanacio may be incorrect. There are several baptisms in Momax where there is an "Atilano" Campos married to a Maria Campos having children in the 1860s and 1870s:

MA. DEL CARMEN CAMPOS CAMPOS
Christening: 26 APR 1862 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas
Father: ATILANO DE CAMPOS
Mother: MARIA DE CAMPOS
Batch No. C600844 Film No. 0443990

1. MA. DEL CARMEN CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Female Christening: 26 APR 1862 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

2. REFUGIO CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Female Christening: 04 APR 1864 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

3. VALENTIN CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Male Christening: 18 DEC 1869 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

4. MARGARITA CAMPOS
Gender: Female Christening: 10 JUN 1871 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

5. BONIFACIO CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Male Christening: 07 JUN 1867 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

Comment

Hi, Arturo. One thing is for sure. Although the Atanacio Campos that married Natividad Cornejo is not my great-grandfather as I actually met him and my mom lived with him and her grandmother, María de Jesús Campos Cornejo (called "'Amá Chuche" by her) so he could not have lived that long, I do know that you just gave me a good deal of missing information with your search! The information on Atiliano & María Campos are my ancestors (Atiliano de Santa Brigida Campos Álbares or Álvarez & María Apolina de Campos) as my mother had given me the names. They are my great-great-great grandparents, parents of Valentín Campos who married Cruz Mota. They are parents to my great-grandfather, Atanacio Campos. I didn't have Valentín's siblings name, but you just gave me a nice little gift. THANKS!

arturoramos wrote:

Cristina:

The name "Atanacio" is very unique as is the surname "Cornejo" thus I would venture to guess that there is a high likelihood that this Natividad Cornejo is the same person as Maria de Jesus Campos Cornejo. It is not uncommon to find people changing their name during their lives or having priests write down a wrong name, having the name mistranscribed by the person extracting the records or having someone misremember a name (incorrect oral history).

The fact that you have someone with the name "Atanacio Campos" marrying someone with the surname "Cornejo" should be enough to get you to look at the record. You will note that there is another entry for an Atanacio Campos marriage in Momax a decade later. This may be the same person remarrying.

ATANASIO CAMPOS
Marriages:
Spouse: AURELIA VALDIVIA
About 20 AUG 1885 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas
Batch No. M600845 Film No. 0444019

Alternatively, the name Atanacio may be incorrect. There are several baptisms in Momax where there is an "Atilano" Campos married to a Maria Campos having children in the 1860s and 1870s:

MA. DEL CARMEN CAMPOS CAMPOS
Christening: 26 APR 1862 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas
Father: ATILANO DE CAMPOS
Mother: MARIA DE CAMPOS
Batch No. C600844 Film No. 0443990

1. MA. DEL CARMEN CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Female Christening: 26 APR 1862 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

2. REFUGIO CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Female Christening: 04 APR 1864 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

3. VALENTIN CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Male Christening: 18 DEC 1869 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

4. MARGARITA CAMPOS
Gender: Female Christening: 10 JUN 1871 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

5. BONIFACIO CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Male Christening: 07 JUN 1867 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

Comment

I guess my screenshot did come through. :-( You can find it at http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/cavilah/campos_campos.jpg?t=1168…. It shows my entries for the people mentioned below. I had originally obtained the names from my mother and then I used familysearch.com to verify & obtain dates.

Thanks!

La Plus Belle wrote:
Hi, Arturo. One thing is for sure. Although the Atanacio Campos that married Natividad Cornejo is not my great-grandfather as I actually met him and my mom lived with him and her grandmother, María de Jesús Campos Cornejo (called "'Amá Chuche" by her) so he could not have lived that long, I do know that you just gave me a good deal of missing information with your search! The information on Atiliano & María Campos are my ancestors (Atiliano de Santa Brigida Campos Álbares or Álvarez & María Apolina de Campos) as my mother had given me the names. They are my great-great-great grandparents, parents of Valentín Campos who married Cruz Mota. They are parents to my great-grandfather, Atanacio Campos. I didn't have Valentín's siblings name, but you just gave me a nice little gift. THANKS!

arturoramos wrote:

Cristina:

The name "Atanacio" is very unique as is the surname "Cornejo" thus I would venture to guess that there is a high likelihood that this Natividad Cornejo is the same person as Maria de Jesus Campos Cornejo. It is not uncommon to find people changing their name during their lives or having priests write down a wrong name, having the name mistranscribed by the person extracting the records or having someone misremember a name (incorrect oral history).

The fact that you have someone with the name "Atanacio Campos" marrying someone with the surname "Cornejo" should be enough to get you to look at the record. You will note that there is another entry for an Atanacio Campos marriage in Momax a decade later. This may be the same person remarrying.

ATANASIO CAMPOS
Marriages:
Spouse: AURELIA VALDIVIA
About 20 AUG 1885 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas
Batch No. M600845 Film No. 0444019

Alternatively, the name Atanacio may be incorrect. There are several baptisms in Momax where there is an "Atilano" Campos married to a Maria Campos having children in the 1860s and 1870s:

MA. DEL CARMEN CAMPOS CAMPOS
Christening: 26 APR 1862 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas
Father: ATILANO DE CAMPOS
Mother: MARIA DE CAMPOS
Batch No. C600844 Film No. 0443990

1. MA. DEL CARMEN CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Female Christening: 26 APR 1862 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

2. REFUGIO CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Female Christening: 04 APR 1864 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

3. VALENTIN CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Male Christening: 18 DEC 1869 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

4. MARGARITA CAMPOS
Gender: Female Christening: 10 JUN 1871 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

5. BONIFACIO CAMPOS CAMPOS
Gender: Male Christening: 07 JUN 1867 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico

Comment

Cristina:

That is great that the information I gathered for you was useful. That is why it is important to show gnealogical information in a standard format and include dates whenever they are available. I was unable to decipher from your files who belonged to what generation nor did I have an idea of what years we were talking about. I suppose that the marriage between Valentin Campos and Cruz Mota was too recent to be indexed by LDS.

That means that you would have to manually look it up in the appropriate film. That should not be to difficult as by then most of the books had name indices. You should probably order Momax Film No. 444019 (Matrimonios 1776-1907). The fact that all of those marriages are on one film gives me pause and makes me think that many of the records are missing. However, there are seperate films for informacion matrimonial for most of the years. I would imagine if Valentin was born in 1867 he was married around 1892 or so.

FInding the marriage in the informacion matrimonial films is more difficult as there is more text (a couple of pages for wach marriage) and usually no indices. You would probably have to look through:

Información matrimonial 1879-1886 VAULT INTL Film
444001
Información matrimonial 1886-1894 FHL INTL Film
444002
Información matrimonial 1894-1901 FHL INTL Film
444003

Do you have the names of Cruz Mota's parents? You can go into the FILMS section of the website and click on Zacatecas and then Momax and then click on the last baptism film. You should then be able to simply type "Mota" in the last name field and all of the Motas baptized in the given years will show up.

As an aside, you cannot put attachments on your postings. Only text shows up through email postings. If you want to share a file with the group, please upload it to either a file folder (your own genealogy or create a new one in the Books and Articles or Reference section as you see fit) or if it is a picture, the Albums section is the best place.

Good luck in your continued search.

Comment

There are many reasons why the inter marriage, in most all the historical readings that I have done it truly was calculated and necessary.
Most of the conquistadors were nobles trying to reclaim their families financial to support their titles. If this was achieved it was kept in the family.
Then in addition to and separate they were hidden con versos, meaning public catholic. hidden Jew. It would take pages to explain all the reasons why, The inquisition was coming to new Spain as early as 1596-- To learn more about this tragic time in history there is Cecil Roth's works, Once I became enlightened to the whys, new doors opened up as to what i was finding in my familial search

La Plus Belle wrote:
Thank you so much for your willingess to help. I know that I get ahead of myself, but this is all a new experience for me and I get so excited when I see a possible ancestor. I will try to reign in my emotions, lol, and go about this a little more logically. For now, I have mostly added only that I am sure of. For example, I obtained the names from my mother first, then looked them up to verify. That is how I found additional details such as birth dates and marriage dates to add. I suppose I should just try to complete one at a time before I continue. I just felt that the more info. I had on anyone, the more leads it could provide to find the next ancestor. Anyway, I will be very patient and do as suggested and, with your help and everyone elses, I'm sure it will be for the best. As for this Atanacio Campos, the reason I know he is not my great-grandfather is because his parents' names were Valentín Campos Campos and Cruz Mota (his full name is Atanacio Campos
Mota) and he was married to María de Jesús Campos Cornejo, hence my grandmother being a Campos Campos. :-) Have you noticed this occurence in your family, where you have families marrying their own relatives? My brother calls our family the "Mexican Hillbillies..." LOL! For example, my grandfather is Haro Haro and his wife, my grandmother, is Campos Campos. Already we see a pattern, yet it doesn't stop there. My granmother turns out to me my grandfather's distant Aunt and also his cousin, or some such strange thing...It is so hard to keep track of the connections!!!

Cristina

P.S. I did delete my files so as not to confuse anyone else!!! I will be sending you my files, shortly. Thanks, again!

arturoramos wrote:

Cristina:

Yes, please email me what you have and I will try to organize it for you and create an Anhentafel or register table for you to post in your file folder. Did you take the files you had in there down?

One question, why do you think that this Atanacio Campos is not your ancestor? The dates and the name of the spouse seem to match the information you provided in your first introductory email.

One rule that should always be followed is that you have to go one generation at a time. It is always tempting to skip to the next generation based on a hunch or oral history when one is stuck, but it is imperative that each generation's link to the next is well documented. Otherwise, the basis for the genealogy falls apart.

I will send you a personal message with my email address.

Comment

Mari, thanks for sharing this insightful information. I have not traced my roots that far so I have not thought to ponder on the original reasons. I had thought that the more recent family unions were due to the fact that it was not as easy to travel long distances as it is now and, thus, people found their partners in the same small ranchos or towns and then the family kept growing in that same small area so there was more family to pick from, so to speak. That was my theory, but now I see that there are multiple factors involved...It's interesting to think about what our ancestors might have gone through and all of the history...

mari deGuzman wrote: There are many reasons why the inter marriage, in most all the historical readings that I have done it truly was calculated and necessary.
Most of the conquistadors were nobles trying to reclaim their families financial to support their titles. If this was achieved it was kept in the family.
Then in addition to and separate they were hidden con versos, meaning public catholic. hidden Jew. It would take pages to explain all the reasons why, The inquisition was coming to new Spain as early as 1596-- To learn more about this tragic time in history there is Cecil Roth's works, Once I became enlightened to the whys, new doors opened up as to what i was finding in my familial search

La Plus Belle wrote:
Thank you so much for your willingess to help. I know that I get ahead of myself, but this is all a new experience for me and I get so excited when I see a possible ancestor. I will try to reign in my emotions, lol, and go about this a little more logically. For now, I have mostly added only that I am sure of. For example, I obtained the names from my mother first, then looked them up to verify. That is how I found additional details such as birth dates and marriage dates to add. I suppose I should just try to complete one at a time before I continue. I just felt that the more info. I had on anyone, the more leads it could provide to find the next ancestor. Anyway, I will be very patient and do as suggested and, with your help and everyone elses, I'm sure it will be for the best. As for this Atanacio Campos, the reason I know he is not my great-grandfather is because his parents' names were Valentín Campos Campos and Cruz Mota (his full name is Atanacio Campos
Mota) and he was married to María de Jesús Campos Cornejo, hence my grandmother being a Campos Campos. :-) Have you noticed this occurence in your family, where you have families marrying their own relatives? My brother calls our family the "Mexican Hillbillies..." LOL! For example, my grandfather is Haro Haro and his wife, my grandmother, is Campos Campos. Already we see a pattern, yet it doesn't stop there. My granmother turns out to me my grandfather's distant Aunt and also his cousin, or some such strange thing...It is so hard to keep track of the connections!!!

Cristina

P.S. I did delete my files so as not to confuse anyone else!!! I will be sending you my files, shortly. Thanks, again!

arturoramos wrote:

Cristina:

Yes, please email me what you have and I will try to organize it for you and create an Anhentafel or register table for you to post in your file folder. Did you take the files you had in there down?

One question, why do you think that this Atanacio Campos is not your ancestor? The dates and the name of the spouse seem to match the information you provided in your first introductory email.

One rule that should always be followed is that you have to go one generation at a time. It is always tempting to skip to the next generation based on a hunch or oral history when one is stuck, but it is imperative that each generation's link to the next is well documented. Otherwise, the basis for the genealogy falls apart.

I will send you a personal message with my email address.

Comment

I was told by my mother-in-law that records of her family had burned in a church fire, but the LDS had copies through microfilms that I believe were made in the 1950's. So unless the protests were before that, do not give up on the LDS. The records from Mexico they have are amazing. Give them a try.

research Digest, Vol 12, Issue 23, Miguel Caldera

Published by campezina –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Linda,

How does one get in touch with Susana Leniski for information on Miguel
Caldera and Maria Cid? Also, do you know what books Phillip
Wayne Powell has published Miguel Caldera besides The Taming of

Comments

Published by longsjourney – Mon, 2007-01-29 01:15 | Permalink

Comment

Susana is a member of this group. She has submitted her Caldera work to Nuestros Ranchos. Joseph or Arturo, can you help on this?
Linda

"campezina@juno.com" wrote:
Linda,

How does one get in touch with Susana Leniski for information on Miguel
Caldera and Maria Cid? Also, do you know what books Phillip
Wayne Powell has published Miguel Caldera besides The Taming of
America's First Frontier (1548-1597).

I have an ancestress by the name of Maria-Anacleta "Cleta" Caldera from
Tepetongo, Zacatecas.

I have not been able to find information about her parents or where
they came from to San Jose de Arroyo Seco de Abajo in Tepetongo.

Elvira

________________________________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.
http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/fron…

Comment

Elvira:

You can find Susana Leniski's Caldera file in her member's genealogy folder. Maria Cid and her husband Hernan Gonzalez (who was a close collaborator of Miguel) had many children and appear as the common root for a number of Jerez-area dispensations in the Sagrada Mitra.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14128

Also, these are the other books from Philip Wayne Powell that contain documents, etc. regarding Miguel:

War and peace on the North Mexican frontier; a documentary record, collected and arranged by Philip Wayne Powell. Paleographic transcriptions by Maria L. Powell.

Soldiers, Indians & silver; North America's first frontier war.

Comment

Arturo, do you have any idea where the name Cid comes from?
Linda in Everett

arturoramos wrote:

Elvira:

You can find Susana Leniski's Caldera file in her member's genealogy folder. Maria Cid and her husband Hernan Gonzalez (who was a close collaborator of Miguel) had many children and appear as the common root for a number of Jerez-area dispensations in the Sagrada Mitra.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14128

Also, these are the other books from Philip Wayne Powell that contain documents, etc. regarding Miguel:

War and peace on the North Mexican frontier; a documentary record, collected and arranged by Philip Wayne Powell. Paleographic transcriptions by Maria L. Powell.

Soldiers, Indians & silver; North America's first frontier war.

Comment

Linda:

The Cid in Maria Cid... that is a tough nut to crack. Philip Wayne Powell writes in his book that she was likely a half sister of Miguel because she had a different last name, but Susana and I are convinced that both she and Miguel were full siblings and children of Pedro Caldera. As you have probably figured out, siblings in the 1500s did not necessarily share surnames and the fact that half of Maria's children took the name Caldera makes it pretty clear that she was also a descendant of the Caldera line.

So we know that her mother likely had no surname as one is never mentioned and she was a Guachichil woman. Pedro Caldera is never mentioned with the name Cid, but what was a common practice, I have found, is to name children (especially girls) for their grandparents and when doing so giving them the full name including the surname.

So one of my theories is that Pedro Caldera's mother (or perhaps grandmother) was named Maria Cid and she was named after her. Proving this theory would require finding Pedro Caldera's records back in Spain. That is on my long list of to-dos.

Published by longsjourney – Sun, 2007-02-04 14:45 | Permalink

Comment

Just thought I'd mention that I'm working on a civil birth record with an index for Jerez Zacatecas Mexico. I'ts #1081913 Jerez civil birth records 1886-1887. If anyone needs a look up I'd be glad to check for you. It does start Jan 1st 1886.

Linda in Everett

---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Comment

Hi, Linda,

I have one look-up for you: Maria Juliana Olage [Olague], christened 16 FEB 1887 in Jerez, parents Leon Olague and Felise Suriano according to the IGI.

I'd like to know if her grandparents are mentioned and when and where she was born (and her padrinos too).

Thanks

Emilie in Port Orchard
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jerez Zacatecas civil birth record

Just thought I'd mention that I'm working on a civil birth record with an index for Jerez Zacatecas Mexico. I'ts #1081913 Jerez civil birth records 1886-1887. If anyone needs a look up I'd be glad to check for you. It does start Jan 1st 1886.

Linda in Everett

---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Comment

Emily I'll have that for you tomorrow evening.. glad I could be of help.
Linda

Emilie Garcia wrote:
Hi, Linda,

I have one look-up for you: Maria Juliana Olage [Olague], christened 16 FEB 1887 in Jerez, parents Leon Olague and Felise Suriano according to the IGI.

I'd like to know if her grandparents are mentioned and when and where she was born (and her padrinos too).

Thanks

Emilie in Port Orchard
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jerez Zacatecas civil birth record

Just thought I'd mention that I'm working on a civil birth record with an index for Jerez Zacatecas Mexico. I'ts #1081913 Jerez civil birth records 1886-1887. If anyone needs a look up I'd be glad to check for you. It does start Jan 1st 1886.

Linda in Everett

---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Published by katy_brecht_quesada – Tue, 2013-02-12 00:20 | Permalink

Comment

@arturoramos- just because maria cid caldera has the same last name as miguel, doesn't autmatically make them full siblings. for all we now she could have had a different dad than miguel.

Comment

Arturo are the books by Philip Wayne Powell in English or in Spanish? I haven't seen any for sale..
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Elvira:

You can find Susana Leniski's Caldera file in her member's genealogy folder. Maria Cid and her husband Hernan Gonzalez (who was a close collaborator of Miguel) had many children and appear as the common root for a number of Jerez-area dispensations in the Sagrada Mitra.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14128

Also, these are the other books from Philip Wayne Powell that contain documents, etc. regarding Miguel:

War and peace on the North Mexican frontier; a documentary record, collected and arranged by Philip Wayne Powell. Paleographic transcriptions by Maria L. Powell.

Soldiers, Indians & silver; North America's first frontier war.

Comment

Linda:

I have Powell's biography of Caldera in English. I had to buy it used. I think the problem is that the books are out of print in English. You can get "Mexico's Miguel Caldera" pretty easily used on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0816505691

Just last week ordered a couple of (new) copies of the book in Spanish from the Fondo de Economia Politica online bookstore in Mexico. The book in Spanish is called "Capitán mestizo : Miguel Caldera y la Frontera norteña. La pacificación de los chichimecas (1548-1597)." They also have a book by Powell called "La guerra chichimeca (1550-1600)."

http://www.libreriasdelfondo.com/

The other two books I have only ever seen at the Library of Congress here in DC.

I just did a search on bookfinder.com for any books by him and found Soldiers, Indians and Silver, also used on Biblio.com:

http://www.biblio.com/books/91206341.html

Comment

Arturo, I just bought an English version of Mexico's Miguel Caldera, thank you for informing me I could get it in English..
thank you again, Linda in Everett

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

I have Powell's biography of Caldera in English. I had to buy it used. I think the problem is that the books are out of print in English. You can get "Mexico's Miguel Caldera" pretty easily used on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0816505691

Just last week ordered a couple of (new) copies of the book in Spanish from the Fondo de Economia Politica online bookstore in Mexico. The book in Spanish is called "Capitán mestizo : Miguel Caldera y la Frontera norteña. La pacificación de los chichimecas (1548-1597)." They also have a book by Powell called "La guerra chichimeca (1550-1600)."

http://www.libreriasdelfondo.com/

The other two books I have only ever seen at the Library of Congress here in DC.

I just did a search on bookfinder.com for any books by him and found Soldiers, Indians and Silver, also used on Biblio.com:

http://www.biblio.com/books/91206341.html

---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Comment

Hello, out there, who knows the author of "CONQUISTADORES de NUEVA GALICIA"?
Thanks!!!!!!!!

Juanita G. Delgado

arturoramos wrote:

Elvira:

You can find Susana Leniski's Caldera file in her member's genealogy folder. Maria Cid and her husband Hernan Gonzalez (who was a close collaborator of Miguel) had many children and appear as the common root for a number of Jerez-area dispensations in the Sagrada Mitra.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14128

Also, these are the other books from Philip Wayne Powell that contain documents, etc. regarding Miguel:

War and peace on the North Mexican frontier; a documentary record, collected and arranged by Philip Wayne Powell. Paleographic transcriptions by Maria L. Powell.

Soldiers, Indians & silver; North America's first frontier war.

Comment

Go to the files and then to members genealogies then to Lenski, Susana
folder and then click on her user name which is the name in the line
that looks like this:

Submitted by superhorrible on 23 March, 2006 - 12:56pm.

after you click on the "superhorrible" username then you would click on
"contact" and proceed to email her through the system.

or you could more easily just type in "leniski" in the search window and
when you see one of her messages come up then you would click on her
Username and click on contact.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
> Susana is a member of this group. She has submitted her Caldera work to Nuestros Ranchos. Joseph or Arturo, can you help on this?
> Linda
>
> "campezina@juno.com" wrote:
> Linda,
>
>
> How does one get in touch with Susana Leniski for information on Miguel
> Caldera and Maria Cid? Also, do you know what books Phillip
> Wayne Powell has published Miguel Caldera besides The Taming of
> America's First Frontier (1548-1597).
>
> I have an ancestress by the name of Maria-Anacleta "Cleta" Caldera from
> Tepetongo, Zacatecas.
>
> I have not been able to find information about her parents or where
> they came from to San Jose de Arroyo Seco de Abajo in Tepetongo.
>
> Elvira
>
>
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