Los molesto con la liga de el estado de Aguascalientes.
aqui esta, no se si esten completas todas la parroquias
https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.famil…
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:15 PM, wrote:
> Los molesto con la liga de el estado de Aguascalientes.
>
>
Thank you so much to: Linda, Mickey, Angelina, Alicia, Raquel
& Veronica for your advice and recommendations for hotels
in the Guadalajara area. I am especially grateful to
Do you by any chance know the parents, paternal and maternal grandparents of Francisco Sanchez Flores? Thanks.....
----- Original Message -----
From: nbperez@att.net
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 7:40:14 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tlajomulco, Guadalajara trip
Thank you so much to: Linda, Mickey, Angelina, Alicia, Raquel
& Veronica for your advice and recommendations for hotels
in the Guadalajara area. I am especially grateful to
Veronica who lives near Tlajomulco and volunteered guidance
in my search.
Dr. Francisco Sanchez Flores, born in Tlajomulco in 1910, was
known as "Pancho Panelas" in the mariachi & folkloric dance world.
He was also a noted painter of indigenous art and I believe has artwork
in exhibition in the Regional Museum in Guadalajara. I would love to
visit a cultural center named after him in Tlajomulco, as well as a
school. Maybe Veronica could find their locations for me as it would
be very exciting to see them. As mentioned, just walking the same
streets as did our ancestors is a very spiritual, special feeling, which
I experienced when I went to El Paso in search of my cousin. With the
help of this wonderful group, my trip should be very productive.
Thanks to you all - Nancy
Hello Ruben,
The parents of Dr. Francisco Sanchez Flores are:
Jesus Sanchez Guerrero & Esther Flores. Paternal
grandparents were Marcelina Guerrero Zepeda &
Francisco Sanchez. Maternal grandparents were
Miguel Flores & Maximiana Saldana.
Although I can go further back, my main goal is to
research more recent family history. For instance,
I have been unable to locate marriage info for
Dr.FS Flores (perhaps he never married), or his uncle
Dr. Francisco Sanchez Guerrero, born in 1860 in Guadalajara,
and died in 1924. My hope is these records will definitely
point me in the right direction to connect with my grandmother.
If you go to the "latest images" feature, pg. 3, of NR, you will find
3 photos of the Guerrero family I am searching, including a description.
(The Nicolas family photos are not mine).
Veronica, thank you for the website articles you sent me. I actually
already had those and at least 10 others. Unfortunately, after carefully
studying the photo, I now think it is not that of Francisco S. Flores
but is of the general, especially because of the uniform. What do you
think? I would love to find his photo so I could compare it with the one
I have of his father (included in NR photo gallery).
Thanks to all helping with my mystery.
Nancy
Efectivamente, varias instituciones en Tlajomulco llevan el nombre de Francisco sanchez, como escultor hizo obras en otras ciudades. Estare encantada de ayudarte en el reencuentro de tu ancestro. Aproximadamente en una semana aprovechare a vicitar el municipio y te contare que encontre referente a las instituciones que llevan su nombre.
Aqui hay un enlace de un lugareño que muestra Tlajomulco de una forma mas natural y puedes apreciar el monumento a Francisco sanchez Flores
Indeed, several institutions are named Tlajomulco Francisco Sanchez, as a sculptor he works in other cities. I'll be happy to help in reuniting your ancestor. About a week to take advantage vicit the town and tell you that I found regarding the institutions that bear his name.
Here is a link that shows a local Tlajomulco in a more natural and you can see the monument to Francisco Sanchez Flores:
http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/2800807/conozcan-mi-pueblo-tlajomulco…
Biography: http://www.museocjv.com/panchopanelasbiografia.htm
Todo lo mejor!
Veronica
I too am grateful for Veronica,
It's people helping other people in need that makes this group so wonderful.
Nancy, good luck in your travels to Mexico. Tell us all about it upon your return.
Suerte!
Alicia
________________________________
From: "nbperez@att.net"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 7:40 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tlajomulco, Guadalajara trip
Thank you so much to: Linda, Mickey, Angelina, Alicia, Raquel
& Veronica for your advice and recommendations for hotels
in the Guadalajara area. I am especially grateful to
Veronica who lives near Tlajomulco and volunteered guidance
in my search.
Dr. Francisco Sanchez Flores, born in Tlajomulco in 1910, was
known as "Pancho Panelas" in the mariachi & folkloric dance world.
He was also a noted painter of indigenous art and I believe has artwork
in exhibition in the Regional Museum in Guadalajara. I would love to
visit a cultural center named after him in Tlajomulco, as well as a school. Maybe Veronica could find their locations for me as it would
be very exciting to see them. As mentioned, just walking the same
streets as did our ancestors is a very spiritual, special feeling, which
I experienced when I went to El Paso in search of my cousin. With the
help of this wonderful group, my trip should be very productive.
Thanks to you all - Nancy
Alguien sabe el origen de esta Josefa Ruíz de Esparza quien casó a Domingo Ruíz de la Fuente? Ella falleció el 22 de junio de 1668 en Aguascalientes.
Aver si alguien que ha investigado por ahí me puede ayudar en esta búsqueda. Hace días entronqué con estos López de Castro.
Hello Nuestros Rancheros,
I thought I would pass along a link to a website that some of you may be interested in for ordering handmade folklorico dolls. http://misreinas.com
Does anyone know if the Mexico, Catholic Church records on Familysearch is down? I was on it earlier, but now can't seem to get back on neither on Explorer or Firefox.
Thanks so much, Alice
Alice
If the site was down earlier today, it is now back up (this posting is at 8:49 PM). I tried a couple of different states/towns/collections, and all was OK.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Good Evening George,
Yes! I'm back in business. Thanks so much. Alice
--- On Mon, 1/16/12, gpf13@aol.com wrote:
From: gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Search
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 4:57 AM
Alice
If the site was down earlier today, it is now back up (this posting is at 8:49 PM). I tried a couple of different states/towns/collections, and all was OK.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
It sounds like he was the one who registered her as his daughter and gave him her last name. This often ocurrs when two people live together, though not marry still recognizes his natural child.
Hola Daniel:
Se me hace un poco más fácil escribirte en español, sabiendo que también lo hablas. Nunca en todo mi tiempo de genealogista he podido descifrar los padres de la persona que ha dicho que fue hijo de padres no conocidos ni cuando dicen ser hijos naturales, que sólo mencionan a la mamá. Tengo una buena amiga, tía lejana, que sorprendentemente con mucho esfuerzo pudo con estas similares circunstancias que te digo en uno de sus antepasados de línea directa de su segundo apellido, lograr sacar el nombre del padre y abuelos cuando el registro sólo decía el de la madre.
En una ocasión, ví una dispensa donde al principio el contrayente decía ser hijo de padres no conocidos, pero cuando uno de los testigos denuncia el parentesco entre los novios, vuelve a declarar el novio y menciona a sus padres aunque sí era hijo natural, además que conocía muy bien por donde le venía el parentesco con la pretensa. Con esto sabemos que la gente sí sabía de quienes eran hijos y por circunstancias especiales como tu dices, no lo decían.
El caso que siempre he deseado resolver y que tampoco hasta donde sé, lo pudo descifrar mi tío Gabriel, fue con el apellido Agraz. Resulta que cuando José de Tadeo de Agraz casa con Andrea de Contreras y Araiza, el 14 de Febrero de 1737 en Tecolotlán, Tadeo dice ser hijo de padres no conocidos. Sé que había otros Agraz, pocos años antes en Tecolotlán que podían haber sido parientes de Tadeo. También ahorita me da la idea, que encontré a un Tadeo bautizado en Tecolotlán por las fechas en que debió haber nacido y no me acuerdo bien pero uno de los padres se apellidaba Araiza, y Andrea mi antepasada era Araiza.
Sabes tú, cuando decían ser hijos de padres no conocidos, como le hacían para elegir el apellido que llevaban? si en realidad el apellido era suyo o se lo inventaban?
Saludos,
Enrique Agraz
Thank you, Daniel, so I think I made the right decision. I needed to be
sure. :-)
Esther
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino <
mendezdetorres@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> It sounds like he was the one who registered her as his daughter and gave
> him her last name. This often ocurrs when two people live together, though
> not marry still recognizes his natural child. Most times when this would
> not occur, it would list the mother and padre desconocido. I recently
> learned that another reason for marriages when mentioned was "de padres no
> conocidos" was because the person refused to identify their parents so they
> would not have to go through the dispensation process, etc especially when
> consanguinity was obvious.
>
> Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
>
New Year's greetings to all.
Hi Raymond,
Is says that both the bride and groom are "de esta villa" or "from this village", so they were from the then Villa de Aguascalientes. The amonestaciones were read on May 1, 2 and 3, so I expect the Información Matrimonial would be dated May or April.
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Which kind of clarification do you need? I think it says:
May 12, 1819, marriage of Olayo Medrano, son of Juan Ma. Medrano & Rita Martines; with Dolores Gascon, daughter of Pedro Gascon & Rosalia Esparsa. Witnesses, Juan Valades & Matiano Fuentes.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Thanks Victoriano,
I couldn't make out the names of all parents, that helps. I also would like to know where the bride and groom are from, if possible. Also, how long before the wedding would the Matromonial Investigation appear?
Thanks in advance.
Raymond Medrano
On Jan 14, 2012, at 10:01 PM, mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx wrote:
> Which kind of clarification do you need? I think it says:
> May 12, 1819, marriage of Olayo Medrano, son of Juan Ma. Medrano & Rita Martines; with Dolores Gascon, daughter of Pedro Gascon & Rosalia Esparsa. Witnesses, Juan Valades & Matiano Fuentes.
> Regards,
> Victoriano Navarro
I subscribe to a newsletter from Replacements.com, and recently they had an article about antique chocolate pots, and it included the history of chocolate.
Hi Emilie,
Molinillos still exist and are available at Mexican mercados. You reminded me that it's time to head downtown to Mi Tierra's restaurante y panaderia and sip some of that great hot chocolate they make and enjoy it with a fresh chamuco or polvoron. It gets cold here, too!
Alice
--- On Sat, 1/14/12, Emilie Garcia wrote:
From: Emilie Garcia
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mexican Hot Chocolate
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012, 8:40 PM
I subscribe to a newsletter from Replacements.com, and recently they had an article about antique chocolate pots, and it included the history of chocolate. I was intrigued by a recipe they included:
"the original cocoa beverage comes from the Mayans and Aztecs, and was often a mixture of ground cocoa beans, water, wine, and peppers. It did not take long for the Spaniards to begin heating this blend and sweetening it with sugar to suit their tastes".
"the first published recipe for a chocolate drink was published in Spain---"A Curious Treatise of the Nature of Quality of Chocolate" by Antonio Colmenero de Ledesma in 1644. The recipe called for 100 cacao beans, 2 chiles, a handful of anise, "Ear Flower", one vanilla pod, 2 ounces of cinnamon, twelve almonds or hazelnuts, one pound of sugar, and Achiote (annatto seeds to color the drink) to taste. All of these ingredients were boiled together and then frothed with a molinillo, a traditional Aztec carved wooden tool".
Up here in the Northwest where I live, it is especially cold in the winter, so I enjoy a cup of Mexican hot chocolate, but I don't follow the recipe above which sounds labor-intensive with all that grinding, finding and purchasing of several exotic ingredients, etc. (what in the world is "ear flower"?). I find it convenient to just buy the tablets of Ibarra brand manufactured at the Chocolatera de Jalisco in Guadalajara. All it contains is sugar, cocoa, and cinnamon. Some of my cousins prefer the Abuelita brand, but I bet that old Spanosh recipe made by scratch would be wonderful (except for maybe the chiles in it---some Kahlua would be better).
I recall my mother making hot Mexican chocolate and using one of those wooden molinillos which was just a stick with a bulbous end with wooden rings around the bottom. She would rub the stick between her palms to froth the drink. I often wonder what happened to that little molinillo.
Emilie
Port Orchard, Washington
Iv'e been trying to read this document for the past 2 hours and only found 10 words with help of my mom.So it would be awesome if some one can please translate this document for.
TRONCO
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García = They married each other.
Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez = They are their children, so they are brother and sister. Each one married to someone else not shown here.
Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez = Both female, they are cousins and their granddaughters. Each one married to someone else not shown here.
Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán = They are second cousins and their great-grandchildren. Each one married to someone else not shown here.
Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano = They are third cousins, their gg-grandchildren, and they married each other.
Joseph María and María García are the parents of Ignacio, who is the father of Refugio, who is the mother of Antonio, who is the father of Felipe (all the names in the left column)
Joseph María and María García are also the parents of Deseana, who is the mother of Sebastiana, who is the mother of Ma. Luisa, who is the mother of Leonarda (all the names in the right column).
Feipe and Leonarda are third cousins and got married.
;)
Victoriano Navarro
En la Iglesia Parroquial de Nochistlan a trece de mayo de 1879 yo el Presbítero Don Rafael G Portugal teniente de Cura con licencia parroquial case y vele in fascie Ecletia a Felipe Armas, soltero de 21 años de edad, originario y vecino de la Jabonera, de esta feligresía, hijo legitimo de Antonio Armas finado y de Bernarda Suares que vive, con Leonarda Lozano, célibe, de 20 años de edad, originaria y vecina del mismo punto, hija legitima de ¿¿Pablo?? Lozano y de Luisa Duran que viven. Dispensados por el Ilustrísimo Señor Arzobispo por impedimento de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual como se ve en el decreto inserto al frente de esta partida, previos los consentimientos necesarios y las diligencias que prescribe el Santo Concilio de Trento, sus amonestaciones leídas inter Misamm solemnia en tres días festivos que lo fueron el 27 de abril, 4 y 11 de mayo, de las que no resultó impedimento alguno aun pasado el término legal, así como el examen en la doctrina cristiana y las obligaciones del estado sobre lo que se hallaron suficientemente instruidos y la confesión sacramental. Fueron sus padrinos Julián de los Santos y Bonifacia Padilla. Testigos Doroteo de los Santos y Rosalío Méndez. Para que conste lo firmé con el Señor Cura.
Ysidro Argüelles Rafael G. Portugal.
Victoriano Navarro
[Correction of prior posting.]
The brides's father is actually Serbulo Lozano.
The bride and groom are also related: 3rd cousins (4th degree consanguinity). There should be a dispensation with the matrimonial investigation.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
I had brought up the fact that they are 3rd cousins in one of my earlier
posts. There's no need to search for the dispensation. I have found enough
records to show they are related through Manuel Lozano and María Agustina
de Aguallo
Armando
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:48 PM, wrote:
> The groom's father is actually Serbulo Lozano.
>
> The bride and groom are also related: 3rd cousins (4th degree
> consanguinity). There should be a dispensation with the matrimonial
> investigation.
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA
Even having all the information I need, I would ALWAYS search for the dispensation. Sometimes they have some interesting and previously unknown piece of the puzzle ;)
Victoriano Navarro
Abram Flores
who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
This would be the corrected transcription based on the input (with some corrections -mainly accents- according to modern Spanish):
En la Iglesia Parroquial de Nochistlan a trece de mayo de 1879 yo el Presbítero Don Rafael G. Portugal teniente de Cura con licencia parroquial casé y velé in fascie Ecletia a Felipe Armas, soltero de 21 años de edad, originario y vecino de la Jabonera, de esta feligresía, hijo legítimo de Antonio Armas finado y de Bernarda Juares que vive, con Leonarda Lozano, célibe, de 20 años de edad, originaria y vecina del mismo punto, hija legítima de Cérbulo Lozano y de Luisa Durán que viven. Dispensados por el Ilustrísimo Señor Arzobispo por impedimento de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual como se ve en el decreto inserto al frente de esta partida, previos los consentimientos necesarios y las diligencias que prescribe el Santo Concilio de Trento, sus amonestaciones leídas inter Misamm solemnia en tres días festivos que lo fueron el 27 de abril, 4 y 11 de mayo, de las que no resultó impedimento alguno aun pasado el término legal, así como el examen en la doctrina cristiana y las obligaciones del estado sobre lo que se hallaron suficientemente instruidos y la confesión sacramental. Fueron sus padrinos Librado Durán y Decideria Yañes. Testigos Telésforo Durán y Mauricio Lopez. Para que conste lo firmé con el Señor Cura.
Ysidro Argüelles -- Rafael G. Portugal.
Victoriano Navarro
Victoriano ... Thank you for this transcription; this is actually very helpful.
Abram ... This document is a challenge to read for a couple of reasons. (1) The image is blurred so enlarging the image is not too helpful, and (2) the handwriting is rather cramped, which makes is hard if you are not too familiar with the church language.
We all had a hard time at first with documetns from the later part of the 1800s; this is not untypical. What is really nice about them, and what makes Victoriano's transcription most helpful, is that the general format of both baptismal and amrriage documents changes very little. They are the same in all the essential points, evenin the 1600s. You will find that many of the older documents have less ornate handwriting, and are easier to read.
To analyze this document...
(1) The beginning is almost always the name of the church, town, and date
(2) The priest's name
(3) The term like case y vele (or sometimes case y no vele)
(4) The groom's name, state (single, widower), where he's from, sometimes his age and often his parent's names.
(4) The same information for the bride.
... if either was married before, the former spouse may be named instead of his or her parents.
(5) If there was a dispensation, as in this case, it is mentioned, but few details
(6) some church language about the marriage being in accordance withthe decrees of the Counsil of Trent, and sometimes the dates of publishing the banns
(7) more church language
(8) the padrino's names
(9) the witness's names
finally, one or more signatures.
With the date of the marriage, and the age of the couple, you will now be able to find their parents in the Nochhistlan extracted records (births 1875 and before). Using the Family Search extracted records together with the images, your research should get easier.
Don't be too concerned if you can't read every word in the document. You will be able to pick out the key points: date, brides & groom's names, their parents names, and likely where they are from.
Hang in there, it will get easier!
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
George,
Thanks for your comments! Indeed most of the records say pretty much the same, just changing names, dates and some details regarding that particular marriage.
Abram: "consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual" means that they share an ancestor (or a couple of them) 4 generations away form each one of them. So they share a gg-grandfather, or a gg-grandmother, or both. Maybe Armando can tell you who are these gg-grandparents and the line that connects them to the bride and groom.
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Abram Flores
thanks for this info George appreciate it alot.
Estimados colegas y primos,
Desde un principio me interesó esta discusión sobre la familia Armas, pero ahora que analizo cuidadosamente el acta de Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano, puedo establecer que los dos están emparentados conmigo. Yo desciendo de Juan José de Armas y de Rosa María de Aguirre, tronco común de estos Armas aquí en discusión. También conecto con otras familias de Nochistlán, como los Durán, Armas, Aguirre, Yáñez, Juárez, Lozano, Sandoval, etc. contenidas en está genealogía.
Me puse a investigar un poco en FamilySearch y en mis archivos, y establecí que en realidad Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano estaban ligados por sangre, pero no por un parentesco de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual, sino por dos. O sea que eran primos terceros por dos líneas, aunque en la investigación de la información matrimonial solo salió a luz un parentesco. Los troncos comunes de ellos eran: (1) Nicolás de Aguirre y Ma. Felipa Contreras [casados el 20 de mayo de 1744]; y (2) Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García [casados el primero de octubre de 1755, en Nochistlán]. Los parentescos se pueden resumir de la siguiente forma:
TRONCO
Nicolás de Aguirre y Felipa Contreras
Rosa Ma. Aguirre........1.......Joaquín Aguirre
Luciano Armas...........2......Ma. Remigia Aguirre
Antonio Armas........3...........Cérbulo Lozano
Felipe Armas........4..........Leonarda Lozano
TRONCO
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García
Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez
Ma. Refugio Pérez.....2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez
Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán
Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano
Es necesario informarles entonces que Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo no son tronco común para esta pareja, como se había aseverado anteriormente. Pero sí son los abuelos paternos de Cérbulo Lozano, padre de Leonarda Lozano.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Yo ya había enviado un mensaje corrigiendo mi error de decir que Manuel
Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo son el tronco común de Felipe Armas y
Leonarda Lozano. Tengo a Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo como el
tronco común de Margarito Armas y Macedonia Jauregui Glz. A la vez tengo a
Nicolás de Aguirre y Felipa Contreras como otro tronco común de Felipe
Armas y Leonarda Lozano. Esto es lo que yo tengo después de haber revisado
las imágenes de los registros de matrimonio de las siguientes personas.
Tronco Nicolás de Aguirre and Felipa Contreras
María Rosa de Aguirre....1...Joaquín de Aguirre
Luciano de Armas..........2...María Remigia de Aguirre
Antonio de Armas..........3...Serbulo Lozano
Felipe Armas.................4...Leonarda Lozano
Tronco Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo
Jose María Lozano...1...María Calista Lozano
Serbulo Lozano.......2...Jacinta Aguirre
Leonarda Lozano....3....Francisca Glz
Margarito Armas.....4....Macedonia Jauregui
Cuando di el tronco incorrecto era para explicar que no era necesario
encontrar la dispensa para saber como estaban emparentados Felipe Armas y
Leonarda Lozano y para que la persona que esta buscando a sus ancestros
dedicara el tiempo en buscar los registros de bautismo y de matrimonio por
la razón que es principiante en esto y por lo mismo tiene mucha dificultad
en sus búsquedas. Le sería demasiado difícil buscar la dispensa en esta
etapa de su aprendizaje. Ya después de buscar todos los registros posibles
y no encontrar el tronco común es cuando seria necesario buscar la dispensa
para dar con el tronco y ojala ya habrá aprendido leer los documentos con
mayor facilidad.
Armando
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 4:50 AM, wrote:
> Estimados colegas y primos,
>
> Desde un principio me interesó esta discusión sobre la familia Armas, pero
> ahora que analizo cuidadosamente el acta de Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano,
> puedo establecer que los dos están emparentados conmigo. Yo desciendo de
> Juan José de Armas y de Rosa María de Aguirre, tronco común de estos Armas
> aquí en discusión. También conecto con otras familias de Nochistlán, como
> los Durán, Armas, Yáñez, Juárez, Lozano, Sandoval, etc. contenidas en está
> genealogía.
> Me puse a investigar un poco en FamilySearch y en mis archivos, y
> establecí que en realidad Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano tenían un
> parentesco de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual, o sea que eran primos
> terceros. El tronco común de ellos eran Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María
> García [casados el primero de octubre de 1755, en Nochistlán]. El
> parentesco se puede resumir de la siguiente forma:
>
> TRONCO
> Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García Ignacio
> Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez
> Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez
> Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán
> Felipe Armas........4.........**Leonarda Lozano
>
> Es necesario informarles entonces que Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de
> Aguayo no son el tronco común de esta pareja, como se había aseverado
> anteriormente.
>
> Steven Francisco Hernández López
Acabo de encontrar otro
Tronco Joaquín de Aguirre y Lorenza Corona
María Remigia de Aguirre...1...Miguel de Aguirre
Serbulo Lozano.................2...Jacinta Aguirre
Leonarda Lozano...............3...Francisca Glz
Margarito Armas...............4...Macedonia Jauregui
Armando
Abram Flores
can you give me the link to where you got this info please.?
Abram Flores
sorry to ask but can you please put them like in order like this individuals father is or this individuals husband or wife is name them.
Hi Abram,
I think that:
TRONCO
Nicolás de Aguirre y Felipa Contreras
Rosa Ma. Aguirre........1.......Joaquín Aguirre
Luciano Armas...........2......Ma. Remigia Aguirre
Antonio Armas........3...........Cérbulo Lozano
Felipe Armas........4..........Leonarda Lozano
Means:
4 Groom: Felipe Armas
3 His father: Antonio Armas
2 His Grandfather: Luciano Armas
1 His G-grandmother: Rosa Ma. Aguirre
His GG-grandparents: Nicolás de Aguirre y Felipa Contreras
4 Bride: Leonarda Lozano
3 Her father: Cérbulo Lozano
2 Her grandmother: Ma. Remigia Aguirre
1 Her G-grandfather: Joaquín Aguirre
Her GG-grandparents: Nicolás de Aguirre y Felipa Contreras
Doing the same for the second chart should give you the other branch with Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García as gg-grandparents of bride and groom:
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García
Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez
Ma. Refugio Pérez.....2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez
Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán
Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Abram Flores
okay so it goes like this right felipe armas marries leonarda lozano antonio armas marrie ma. luisa duran ma. refugio perez married sebastiana yanez ignacio perez married ma. deseana perez joseph maria perez sotelo married maria garcia.and i still didnt get the first tronco
Nope.
TRONCO
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García = They married
Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez = They are their children, so they are brother and sister.
Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez = Both female, they are cousins and their granddaughters.
Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán = They are second cousins and their great-grandchildren
Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano = They are third cousins, their gg-grandchildren, and they married.
Victoriano Navarro
Abram Flores
thank you
Abram Flores
wait so who marry who and and whose the father and the mother of the children.im pretty sure i can figure all of this out my but i have been very busy with school homework and that is the reason why i ask so many questions.So thanks to every one who has helped so far
Abram,
If you don't have genealogy software, you need to get it because that's the best method of placing every family member in their respective place, otherwise they are just names.
You can download free PAF software from the familysearch website. It will make a big difference in understanding who is married to whom and which generation each person belongs to.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: "aflore2855@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:50 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
Abram Flores
wait so who marry who and and whose the father and the mother of the children.im pretty sure i can figure all of this out my but i have been very busy with school homework and that is the reason why i ask so many questions.So thanks to every one who has helped so far
PAF is really easy to use, and I recommend it.
You can also get a program to go with it called PAF Companion, that prints very nice reports and charts (including in color). You have to buy this one, but it is only about $10.00, and well worth the money. The reports it generates are best when you have Microsoft Word, but it works with other word processors as well.
Both of these have been around for a long time, but they both run on Windows Vista without any problems(I would expect they also are ok with Windows 7).
There is a very old Macintosh version, but it may not run on the current Mac operating system. By comparison with the Windows version, it is not very good.
There is other software, as well. Some not expensive (perhaps $40-50); others cost much more. For the price, PAF and PAF Companion are tough to beat!
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Abram Flores
well for right now i am using ancestry.com which one is better
Abram------Be careful with Ancestry.com's system. Make your tree Private as soon as possible, otherwise their trolling robot software (Family Tree) will allow people to pull over information you have put in by putting it on their "shaking leaves". Those shaking leaves are supposed to only be "hints" that other peoples' ancestors might be related, but usually only the name is the same but the location and date are way off. Always check things out first with Family Search.
When you make your tree Private, people will be forced to contact you via the Ancestry system to discuss your information instead of just assuming you are related because of a common name.
I assume you signed up for a subscription to Ancestry.com? And then started a tree there that way?
I think it is better to have a genealogy program like PAF in your computer. They all work the way the Ancestry.com system works, but people can't take your information. Once you have developed a tree on the software in your computer you can upload it to Ancestry, but remember to make it Private.
I once had Family Tree in my computer, but it automatically linked to their trolling robot and started to give me "hints" I didn't need because they were so inaccurate.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: aflore2855@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:28:44 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogy Software
>
> Abram Flores
> well for right now i am using ancestry.com which one is better
Abram Flores
wow thanks for that info.
By the way, TRONCO means TRUNK, as in a Tree Trunk. It just means they are showing a trunk or a branch of a Family Tree. You may just ignore the word.
Victoriano Navarro
Abram,
You will find them once you use the procedures we have explained in
previous messages.
Armando
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:36 AM, wrote:
> Abram Flores
> sorry to ask but can you please put them like in order like this
> individuals father is or this individuals husband or wife is name them.
Hello Steven,
First of all I would like to say that I do not speak Spanish, and my Spanish reading skills are very limited to say the least.
By using Webster's 21st Century Spanish/English Dictionary and applying what I call "common sense," I tend to get the basic meaning of the postings written in Spanish.
Steven, your posting was a challenge for me and any corrections in my translation/understand of it will be greatly appreciate.
At first I didn't think this Armas/Lozano discussion applied to my husband (Tino's) ancestry, but as stated in my previous email I later found a common ancestry connection to various individuals being mentioned.
I believe your posting states you are a descendant/desciendo, of Juan Jose de Armas and of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and that this "trunk," is common to the Armas in discussion.
My husband (Tino) also has a strong connection with ancestors/family from Nochislan, one being Rosa Maria de Aguirre, who is Tino's 3rd GreatGrand-Aunt, bapt 22 March 1752.
The only information I have for Rosa, is that she is the daughter of Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras.
Here's where I need help... Is Juan Jose de Armas the spouse of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and if so, what is the source of that information and the names of their offspring.?.
Are you saying that Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are related/sharing common ancestry in the 4th degree, and are 3rd cousins (?) and that the common ancestry/trunk is Joseph Maria Perez Sotelo and Maria Garcia (married 01 Oct 1755 in Nochistlan) ?
Joseph Maria Sotelo Perez and Maria Garcia are my husband's 4th GGParents. I have only one child noted for them, a Juana Maria Perez Garcia, who married Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras. This couple is my husband's 3rd GGParents.
Steven, will you please explain the "trunk," listing that you posted for Joseph Maria Perez Sotelo and Maria Garcia...how is Ignacio Perez related to them as well as the other individuals noted?.
From all this I believe that you and my husband Florentino L. Corbera Jr. are related... not sure to what degree...
Sincerely,
Patricia J. Silva Corbera
----- Original Message -----
From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:50:33 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Parentesco de Consanguinidad en cuarto grado igual
Estimados colegas y primos,
Desde un principio me interesó esta discusión sobre la familia Armas, pero ahora que analizo cuidadosamente el acta de Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano, puedo establecer que los dos están emparentados conmigo. Yo desciendo de Juan José de Armas y de Rosa María de Aguirre, tronco común de estos Armas aquí en discusión. También conecto con otras familias de Nochistlán, como los Durán, Armas, Yáñez, Juárez, Lozano, Sandoval, etc. contenidas en está genealogía.
Me puse a investigar un poco en FamilySearch y en mis archivos, y establecí que en realidad Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano tenían un parentesco de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual, o sea que eran primos terceros. El tronco común de ellos eran Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García [casados el primero de octubre de 1755, en Nochistlán]. El parentesco se puede resumir de la siguiente forma:
TRONCO
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García
Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez
Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez
Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán
Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano
Es necesario informarles entonces que Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo no son el tronco común de esta pareja, como se había aseverado anteriormente.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Hello Steven,
First of all I would like to say that I do not speak Spanish, and my Spanish reading skills are very limited to say the least.
By using Webster's 21st Century Spanish/English Dictionary and applying what I call "common sense," I tend to get the basic meaning of the postings written in Spanish.
Steven, your posting was a challenge for me and any corrections in my translation/understand of it will be greatly appreciate.
At first I didn't think this Armas/Lozano discussion applied to my husband (Tino's) ancestry, but as stated in my previous email I later found a common ancestry connection to various individuals being mentioned.
I believe your posting states you are a descendant/desciendo, of Juan Jose de Armas and of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and that this "trunk," is common to the Armas in discussion.
My husband (Tino) also has a strong connection with ancestors/family from Nochislan, one being Rosa Maria de Aguirre, who is Tino's 3rd GreatGrand-Aunt, bapt 22 March 1752.
The only information I have for Rosa, is that she is the daughter of Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras.
Here's where I need help... Is Juan Jose de Armas the spouse of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and if so, what is the source of that information and the names of their offspring.?.
Are you saying that Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are related/sharing common ancestry in the 4th degree, and are 3rd cousins (?) and that the common ancestry/trunk is Joseph Maria Perez Sotelo and Maria Garcia (married 01 Oct 1755 in Nochistlan) ?
Joseph Maria Sotelo Perez and Maria Garcia are my husband's 4th GGParents. I have only one child noted for them, a Juana Maria Perez Garcia, who married Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras. This couple is my husband's 3rd GGParents.
Steven, will you please explain the "trunk," listing that you posted for Joseph Maria Perez Sotelo and Maria Garcia...how is Ignacio Perez related to them as well as the other individuals noted?.
From all this I believe that you and my husband Florentino L. Corbera Jr. are related... not sure to what degree...
Sincerely,
Patricia J. Silva Corbera
----- Original Message -----
From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:50:33 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Parentesco de Consanguinidad en cuarto grado igual
Estimados colegas y primos,
Desde un principio me interesó esta discusión sobre la familia Armas, pero ahora que analizo cuidadosamente el acta de Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano, puedo establecer que los dos están emparentados conmigo. Yo desciendo de Juan José de Armas y de Rosa María de Aguirre, tronco común de estos Armas aquí en discusión. También conecto con otras familias de Nochistlán, como los Durán, Armas, Yáñez, Juárez, Lozano, Sandoval, etc. contenidas en está genealogía.
Me puse a investigar un poco en FamilySearch y en mis archivos, y establecí que en realidad Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano tenían un parentesco de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual, o sea que eran primos terceros. El tronco común de ellos eran Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García [casados el primero de octubre de 1755, en Nochistlán]. El parentesco se puede resumir de la siguiente forma:
TRONCO
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García
Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez
Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez
Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán
Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano
Es necesario informarles entonces que Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo no son el tronco común de esta pareja, como se había aseverado anteriormente.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Your ancestors
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, wrote:
> Abram Flores
> who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
>
I just realized I gave you the wrong ones. The correct ones that are the
common ancestors of Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are Nicolás de Aguirre
and Felipa Contreras. Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo would
have caused a need for a dispensa in 4th degree of Margarito Armas Lozano
and Macedonia Jauregui Aguirre.
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, wrote:
> Abram Flores
> who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
>
Abram Flores
i am confused can you clarify the whole common ancestor thing of felipe armas and leonarda lozano please?
I must admit I got lost in following the exchange between Abram Flores and Ranchos Members.
It wasn't until Armando's correction posting that I realized that Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras are my husband's (Florentino/Tino Corbera) 4th Great Grandparents.
I have the following:
Nicolas and Phelipa parents of 7 children - (1) Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre (2) Maria Josepha Gonzalez Aguirre (3) Rosa Maria Contreras Aguirre (4) Maria Gertrudis Contreras Aguirre (5) Maria Salome Contreras Aguirre (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre.
Child # (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre are Tino's 3rd GGFathers.
Child # (6) descends to Tino's Maternal Great Grandmother Maria Aniseta Losano Aguirre and her second marriage to Jose Victoriano Rodriguez Perez, their son Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez is Tino's maternal Grandfather (Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez married Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade, they the parents of Maria Refugio Perez born 4 July 1903 Rancho Jabonera, Nochistlan, Zacatecas, who is Tinos' mother).
Child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras is also Tino's 3rd GGF married to Juana Maria Perez Garcia, they the parents of (Jose Timoteo Aguirre married to Maria Ambrosia Placencia, parents of Maria Senovia Aguirre, Tino's Great-Grandmother and her second husband Juan Nepomuceno Delgadillo Andrade). Maria Senovia and Juan Nepomuceno parents of Maria Hilaria Aguirre Andrade and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade is Tino's maternal Grandmother. She and her husband Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez share common ancestry via Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras...
My PAF software program relationship calculator lists them as spouses as well as 3rd cousins...
Maria Andrea Aguirre ANDRADE (mtDNA) and Jose Fernando Aguirre PEREZ are 3rd cousins. Their common ancestors are Nicolas Yanes de AGUIRRE and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez CONTRERAS.
To date I have not located a marriage record for Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. I do have copies of their death records from Susanville Lassen County CA. USA.
Do in part to spelling variations I missed Abram Flores' question about "who is Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo?"
This couple I have in my PAF as Jose Manuel Torres Losano and Maria Agustina de Aguayo.
They are also Tino's ancestors...
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:52:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father
I just realized I gave you the wrong ones. The correct ones that are the
common ancestors of Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are Nicolás de Aguirre
and Felipa Contreras. Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo would
have caused a need for a dispensa in 4th degree of Margarito Armas Lozano
and Macedonia Jauregui Aguirre.
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, wrote:
> Abram Flores
> who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
>
Isn't that amazing. Abram's persistence has caused two people in the group to look seriously at the genealogical information and now they've found a family connection..........I love it!!
Our ancestors speak to us in whatever form is necessary to get our attention.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father
I must admit I got lost in following the exchange between Abram Flores and Ranchos Members.
It wasn't until Armando's correction posting that I realized that Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras are my husband's (Florentino/Tino Corbera) 4th Great Grandparents.
I have the following:
Nicolas and Phelipa parents of 7 children - (1) Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre (2) Maria Josepha Gonzalez Aguirre (3) Rosa Maria Contreras Aguirre (4) Maria Gertrudis Contreras Aguirre (5) Maria Salome Contreras Aguirre (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre.
Child # (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre are Tino's 3rd GGFathers.
Child # (6) descends to Tino's Maternal Great Grandmother Maria Aniseta Losano Aguirre and her second marriage to Jose Victoriano Rodriguez Perez, their son Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez is Tino's maternal Grandfather (Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez married Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade, they the parents of Maria Refugio Perez born 4 July 1903 Rancho Jabonera, Nochistlan, Zacatecas, who is Tinos' mother).
Child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras is also Tino's 3rd GGF married to Juana Maria Perez Garcia, they the parents of (Jose Timoteo Aguirre married to Maria Ambrosia Placencia, parents of Maria Senovia Aguirre, Tino's Great-Grandmother and her second husband Juan Nepomuceno Delgadillo Andrade). Maria Senovia and Juan Nepomuceno parents of Maria Hilaria Aguirre Andrade and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade is Tino's maternal Grandmother. She and her husband Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez share common ancestry via Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras...
My PAF software program relationship calculator lists them as spouses as well as 3rd cousins...
Maria Andrea Aguirre ANDRADE (mtDNA) and Jose Fernando Aguirre PEREZ are 3rd cousins. Their common ancestors are Nicolas Yanes de AGUIRRE and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez CONTRERAS.
To date I have not located a marriage record for Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. I do have copies of their death records from Susanville Lassen County CA. USA.
Do in part to spelling variations I missed Abram Flores' question about "who is Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo?"
This couple I have in my PAF as Jose Manuel Torres Losano and Maria Agustina de Aguayo.
They are also Tino's ancestors...
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:52:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father
I just realized I gave you the wrong ones. The correct ones that are the
common ancestors of Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are Nicolás de Aguirre
and Felipa Contreras. Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo would
have caused a need for a dispensa in 4th degree of Margarito Armas Lozano
and Macedonia Jauregui Aguirre.
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, wrote:
> Abram Flores
> who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
>
I'd like to mention what actually drew me into taking the time to go back and read the postings with reference to Abram's questions was the patience shown in answering his questions by Rancho members. It brought to mind, the only "dumb" question is the question not asked...
Yep! Tino's Perez ancestors from Nochistlan have truly spoken today...
I keep praying that the Corbera "clan," hears and answers my prayers!
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:51:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father
Isn't that amazing. Abram's persistence has caused two people in the group to look seriously at the genealogical information and now they've found a family connection..........I love it!!
Our ancestors speak to us in whatever form is necessary to get our attention.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father
I must admit I got lost in following the exchange between Abram Flores and Ranchos Members.
It wasn't until Armando's correction posting that I realized that Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras are my husband's (Florentino/Tino Corbera) 4th Great Grandparents.
I have the following:
Nicolas and Phelipa parents of 7 children - (1) Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre (2) Maria Josepha Gonzalez Aguirre (3) Rosa Maria Contreras Aguirre (4) Maria Gertrudis Contreras Aguirre (5) Maria Salome Contreras Aguirre (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre.
Child # (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre are Tino's 3rd GGFathers.
Child # (6) descends to Tino's Maternal Great Grandmother Maria Aniseta Losano Aguirre and her second marriage to Jose Victoriano Rodriguez Perez, their son Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez is Tino's maternal Grandfather (Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez married Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade, they the parents of Maria Refugio Perez born 4 July 1903 Rancho Jabonera, Nochistlan, Zacatecas, who is Tinos' mother).
Child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras is also Tino's 3rd GGF married to Juana Maria Perez Garcia, they the parents of (Jose Timoteo Aguirre married to Maria Ambrosia Placencia, parents of Maria Senovia Aguirre, Tino's Great-Grandmother and her second husband Juan Nepomuceno Delgadillo Andrade). Maria Senovia and Juan Nepomuceno parents of Maria Hilaria Aguirre Andrade and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade is Tino's maternal Grandmother. She and her husband Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez share common ancestry via Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras...
My PAF software program relationship calculator lists them as spouses as well as 3rd cousins...
Maria Andrea Aguirre ANDRADE (mtDNA) and Jose Fernando Aguirre PEREZ are 3rd cousins. Their common ancestors are Nicolas Yanes de AGUIRRE and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez CONTRERAS.
To date I have not located a marriage record for Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. I do have copies of their death records from Susanville Lassen County CA. USA.
Do in part to spelling variations I missed Abram Flores' question about "who is Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo?"
This couple I have in my PAF as Jose Manuel Torres Losano and Maria Agustina de Aguayo.
They are also Tino's ancestors...
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:52:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father
I just realized I gave you the wrong ones. The correct ones that are the
common ancestors of Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are Nicolás de Aguirre
and Felipa Contreras. Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo would
have caused a need for a dispensa in 4th degree of Margarito Armas Lozano
and Macedonia Jauregui Aguirre.
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, wrote:
> Abram Flores
> who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
>
Abram Flores
This is awesome.
Abram Flores
can you tell me who are these gg-grandparents and the line that connects them to the bride and groom.?please thanks.
Victoriano, you have the wrong padrinos and testigos. The correct padrinos
and testigos are Labrado Durán y Decideria Yanes testigos Telésforo Durán y
Mauricio Lopes. The mother of Felipe has the surname Juarez in all other
records. The father of Leonarda is Serbulo. I had named all of them in my
earlier post.
Armando
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:16 PM, wrote:
> En la Iglesia Parroquial de Nochistlan a trece de mayo de 1879 yo el
> Presbítero Don Rafael G Portugal teniente de Cura con licencia parroquial
> case y vele in fascie Ecletia a Felipe Armas, soltero de 21 años de edad,
> originario y vecino de la Jabonera, de esta feligresía, hijo legitimo de
> Antonio Armas finado y de Bernarda Suares que vive, con Leonarda Lozano,
> célibe, de 20 años de edad, originaria y vecina del mismo punto, hija
> legitima de ¿¿Pablo?? Lozano y de Luisa Duran que viven. Dispensados por el
> Ilustrísimo Señor Arzobispo por impedimento de consanguinidad de cuarto
> grado igual como se ve en el decreto inserto al frente de esta partida,
> previos los consentimientos necesarios y las diligencias que prescribe el
> Santo Concilio de Trento, sus amonestaciones leídas inter Misamm solemnia
> en tres días festivos que lo fueron el 27 de abril, 4 y 11 de mayo, de las
> que no resultó impedimento alguno aun pasado el término legal, así como el
> examen en la doctrina cri
> stiana y las obligaciones del estado sobre lo que se hallaron
> suficientemente instruidos y la confesión sacramental. Fueron sus padrinos
> Julián de los Santos y Bonifacia Padilla. Testigos Doroteo de los Santos y
> Rosalío Méndez. Para que conste lo firmé con el Señor Cura.
> Ysidro Argüelles Rafael G. Portugal.
>
> Victoriano Navarro
Ooops! The record doesn't have a nice resolution, so I was going to the previous one (which also has a dispensation) which is more readable to figure out some of the words (like Ilmo. Señor Arzobispo). I guess in the back and forth I ended up transcribing the Padrinos and Testigos from the following record, My bad!
Victoriano Navarro
Flores
I am confused so is it juarez or suares and is the father pablo or serbulo?
The two names are Juarez (you can expect to find also spelled at Juares, and sometimes in very old records as Xuares), and Serbulo. I had not seen this other name before, so the combination of hard-to-read handwriting and an unusual name caused the confusion. In Victoriano's first transcription of the document, he was unsure of the name, which he noted with the question marks.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Hola! Envío revisión de las dispensas de archivo de Diocesis de Guadalajara: 1797 Film 168097 / OAH-2435. Espero mi querida Claudia Reynoso las incluya en su archivo que muy amablemente comparte.
Wow, que bien! Gracias Veronica. Ya postea la version editada (en dos partes, por numeros de films) en guadalajaradispensas.com
Wow, that's great! Thanks Veronica. I've posted my edited version (in two parts per film #s) at guadalajaradipsensas.com
Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com
Does anyone know what a manda is? I know its after they pass away but what exactly is it written up in the church for?? here is a link to my document for your viewing.
Amalia,
A "manda," within the practices of catholics, is a promise made (or included in a will) to God, to the Virgin, or to a Saint, either because of devotion or to obtain a determinate Grace.
Efrain Conrique
San Diego, California
-----Original Message-----
>From: hernandezmol@msn.com
>Sent: Jan 12, 2012 4:02 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Manda's, after passing
>
>Does anyone know what a manda is? I know its after they pass away but what exactly is it written up in the church for?? here is a link to my document for your viewing. It is the first record, Alonzo garcia hijo de Villalpando.
>
>http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/alonzovillal.jpg
>
>thank you
>
>Amalia Hernandez Arias
According to the current edition of the Real Academia Dictionary, a manda is indeed a promise made to God, the Virgin or a saint, or a Last Will Testament.
A lot of people used to leave in their Will some money to pay for masses for the resting of their own soul and for masses for the resting of the souls in the Purgatory. The document you cite has a font very difficult to read but it seems to indicate that the mandas are somehow related souls (almas).
Currently a lot of living people still pay mandas for favors received (miracles), not with money but by visiting a shrine (sometimes walking with a big group of people for miles and miles) or by binging a gift and placing it next to some image. I've seen some statues of saints in Mexico City surrounded by printed theses brought by university graduates, statues of the Child Jesus surrounded by toys, statues of St. Charbel with colored ribbons in his open arms, in some churches they cover some walls with small paintings describing a favor, or they may have a board in the wall where people pin small Sacred Heart pendants.
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Ahhhh ok. I will have to take a look at that. The document is from the 1500's from Gomeznarro, Valladolid Spain. Most of it I can translate but I just never heard of its purpose.
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Amalia Hernandez AriasThank you both!!
It's a debt or a promise made to the church and to God.
________________________________
From: "hernandezmol@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:02 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Manda's, after passing
Does anyone know what a manda is? I know its after they pass away but what exactly is it written up in the church for?? here is a link to my document for your viewing. It is the first record, Alonzo garcia hijo de Villalpando.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/alonzovillal.jpg
thank you
Amalia Hernandez Arias
I have come against a brick wall with the Vallarta Family from Hostotipaquillo, Jalisco.
Could anyone please tell me whether Lino is a first name or a nickname?
I have an ancestor named Lino Monrreal early to mid 1800's in Aguascalientes. I haven't found any reference to any other firs
Alice:
Of course Lino is used also as a proper name. My sixth great grandfather was named José Lino de Agraz y Contreras.
Enrique
Lino is Spanish for Linus. There is a St. Linus, Pope, with feast on September 23 (San Lino). I guess some people may also use it as nickname for Paulino, Marcelino, Catalino, etc.
Victoriano Navarro
Thank you, Victoriano. Therefore, Lino is a proper first name, indeed!
I doubted that people would use nicknames on church documents, but on the other hand, it crosssed my mind that it could also be an abbreviation. For the first time I've seen the following abbreviation for Maria--"Maa", in the same church book. Thanks again, Alice
--- On Fri, 1/13/12, mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx wrote:
From: mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Linus
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, January 13, 2012, 4:51 AM
Lino is Spanish for Linus. There is a St. Linus, Pope, with feast on September 23 (San Lino). I guess some people may also use it as nickname for Paulino, Marcelino, Catalino, etc. Victoriano Navarro
Queridos amigos,
Al iniciar este año 2012 deseamos que se logren sus propositos y metas.
Queridos amigos,
Al iniciar este año 2012 deseamos que se logren sus propositos y metas. Que las bendiciones de Dios esten siempre derramandose en Ustedes y sus seres queridos.
Estamos relanzando nuestros servicios de venta de material genealogico el cual estamos "subiendo" diariamente a http://www.Genealogia.org.mx/tienda
Ademas si deseas llamarnos GRATUITAMENTE desde CUALQUIER PARTE DEL MUNDO puedes hacerlo usando SKYPE que es un software gratuito y marcando a GENEALOGIA.ORG.MX (agregas el usuario y hasta podemos chatear usando webcam, si tu no tienes no importa TU PODRAS VERNOS)
(desde mi SmartPhone)
Benicio Samuel Sanchez
Genealogista e Historiador Familiar
Email: samuelsanchez@genealogia.org.mx
Website: http://www.Genealogia.org.mx
Skype: Genealogia.org.mx
FacebooK: www.Facebook.com/Genealogia.org.mx
Office (81) 8393 0011
Cel 81 1513 8354
Saludos afectuosos a todos,
Quisiera preguntar a los miembros de NR si alguno de ustedes desciende de alguno de los siguientes matrimonios:
Que tal Ricardo yo tengo en mi arbol genealogico a JUAN CASILLAS y MARIA VALDIVIA.
saludos ERNESTO DE LEON
Hello Nuestros ranchos,I have come to a road block with my grandparents on my mothers side of the family. My grand father Lucio Carrillo was born in Tepechitlan, Zacatcas around 1899.
Hello
Lucio was my great grandfather and was born from 1899 to 1900. If you have any questions feel free to email me at gumecindoe@gmail.com
Joseph, the email below that you received from Jose Maria Vallejo Mercado was spam.
Hola compañeros, alguno de ustedes sabe donde se encuentra el lugar llamado Rincón de León?
Hola Jorge,
Segun el sitio de internet... "http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com", hay una localidad llamada "Rincon de Leon" en Tierra Nueva, San Luis Potosi y otra en la Huacana Michoacan, estos son los enlaces... "http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/rincon-de-leon-3/" y "http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/rincon-de-leon/".
En el municipio de Leon Guanajuato aparecen... "Rincon Grande, Rincon Verde, y Rincones de la Mora", y en Arandas aparecen... "Rincon de Ocotes,y Boca de Leones".
Este es el enlance a las localidads de Arandas: http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/jalisco/arandas/. Recuerda que quizas los ranchitos/localidades de aquel entonces ya tengan un nombre nuevo o simplemente ya no existen.
Hace un tiempo comparti en NR el enlace a "mexico.pueblosamerica.com", porque crei que seria algo util para localizar pequenos ranchos o localidades que no aparecen en un mapa comun. Espero que te sirva de algo la informacion.
Saludos,
Roberto Hdez
Muchas gracias Roberto, creo que si será de mucha utilidad el enlace que me envías, lo utilizaré de hoy en adelante. De nuevo gracias.
De nada Jorge,
A mi me sirvio el elance para localizar el "ranchito" donde nacio mi Abuelo, ya que al ser tan pequeno... no aparecia en un mapa ordinario. Ademas de poder localizar "ranchitos", tambien podemos ubicar "localidades" que comunmente solo son conocidas por los lugarenos/locales de dichas regiones, estan los clasicos... "El Potrero, El Atascadero, Las Milpas, Cuatro Esquinas, etc...".
Saludos,
Roberto Hdez
Hola a todos,
Estimado Roberto,
Esto precisamente necesitaba ver, datos específicos con fechas más o menos específicas. Con esta información a la mano, se nos hace más fácil seguirle “jalándole al hilito” como dicen por ahí.
A base de esta información me fue posible hacer una búsqueda de matrimonio de tus antepasados más remotos, José Isabel Hernández y María del Refugio Ayala. Ellos se casaron el 8 de septiembre de 1868, el La Barca, Jalisco.
Mexico Marriages, 1570-1950 for Jose Ysabel Hernandes
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No image available
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• About this collection
Groom's Name: Jose Ysabel Hernandes
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Refugio Ayala
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 08 Sep 1868
Marriage Place: La Barca,Jalisco,Mexico
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60605-1
System Origin: Mexico-ODM
Source Film Number: 281074
Reference Number:
Luego hice una búsqueda de los hijos de J. Isabel Hernández y de Ma. Refugio Ayala, salieron varios pero no José Refugio. Miren:
Saturnina Hernández
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950 christening: 09 Dec 1883 San Juan Bosco, La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
residence: La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
parents: José Ysabel Hernández, Maria Refugio Ayala
Saturnina Hernández
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950 christening: 09 Dec 1883 San Juan Bosco, La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
residence: Jalisco, Mexico
parents: José Ysabel Hernández, Maria Refugio Ayala
Eduarda Hernandez
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950 christening: 22 Oct 1893 San Juan Bosco, La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
residence: La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
parents: Jose Ysabel Hernandez, Maria Refugio Ayala
Yrinea Hernandes Ayala
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950 christening: 07 Jul 1875 LA BARCA,JALISCO,MEXICO
residence: Jalisco, Mexico
parents: Ysabel Hernandes, Refugio Ayala
Margarito Hernandes Ayala
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950 christening: 24 Feb 1873 La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
residence: La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
parents: Ysabel Hernandes, Refugio Ayala
Margarito Hernandes Ayala
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950 christening: 24 Feb 1873 , LA BARCA, JALISCO, MEXICO
residence: Jalisco, Mexico
parents: Ysabel_ Hernandes, Refugio Ayala
Eulalia Hernandes Ayala
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950 christening: 14 Feb 1870 LA BARCA,JALISCO,MEXICO
residence:
O sea que si consultas los Microfilms correctos, ahi vas a encontras lo que buscas.
Luego me puse a buscar el matrimonio de Casildo Ruiz y Ma. Refugio Soria, pero no me salió. Pero cuando hice una búsqueda de bautizos/nacimientos me salió lo siguiente:
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950 for Jose Pedro De Jesus Ruiz
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No image available
• Search collection
• About this collection
Name: Jose Pedro De Jesus Ruiz
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Aug 1884
Baptism/Christening Place: Ayotlán, Jalisco, Mexico
Birth Date: 01 Aug 1884
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Casildo Ruiz
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Maria Refugio Soria
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Paternal Grandfather's Name: Francisco Ruiz
Paternal Grandmother's Name: Maria Luz Rojas
Maternal Grandfather's Name: Matias Soria
Maternal Grandmother's name: Rafaela Valle
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C64751-2
System Origin: Mexico-EASy
Source Film Number: 280682
Reference Number: v 34 p 48
Como puedes ver aunque no apareció el matrimonio de ellos, la información bautismal sí contiene los nombres de los abuelos. Son los nombres de tus antepasados. Por el momento creo que esto te va a mantener bastante ocupado. Espero que mi ayuda te guste.
Atentamente,
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Algo mas:
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950 for Margarito Hernandes Ayala
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No image available
Search collection
About this collection
Name:
Margarito Hernandes Ayala
Gender:
Male
Baptism/Christening Date:
24 Feb 1873
Baptism/Christening Place:
La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name:
Ysabel Hernandes
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name:
Refugio Ayala
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Paternal Grandfather's Name:
Antonio Hernandes
Paternal Grandmother's Name:
Ygnacia Garcia
Maternal Grandfather's Name:
Andres Ayala
Maternal Grandmother's name:
Sanjuana Espejo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number:
C03127-7
System Origin:
Mexico-EASy
Source Film Number:
281029
Reference Number:
v 34 p 233
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Steven Francisco Hernández López
Hola Steven,
Gracias por la informacion, me faltaba "Eduarda" como una de las hermanas de J. Refugio. Ya tengo la partida de bautismo de J. Refugio, y fue con la que mas batalle' para encontrarla, la razon puede ser porque en el index de Familysearch aparece como Hernandez Agalar vs. Hernandez Ayala.
Saludos,
Roberto Hdez
Estimado Roberto,
Te felicito por tu deseo, la genealogía es un mundo de aventura e historia. También tengo líneas en Ayo el Chico (Ayotlán). Si tus Hernández vienen de ahí , sería probable que son Herández Gamiño. Déjame saber si te puedo ayudar, tengo más de seis años de experencia.
Daniel Méndez Camino
Hola Daniel,
Gracias por ofrecerme tu ayuda, Si la acepto. Al principio tambien Yo pense que mi apellido podria estar relacionado a los Hernandez Gamino de Ayotlan y Arandas, pero la poca informacion que he podido encontrar alrededor de J. Refugio Hdez, apunta hacia una posible conexion con los Hernandez de la Region de la Barca, Jalisco, posiblemente otra rama de Hernandez, aunque todo es posible y de alguna forma esten relacionados a los Hernandez Gamino de Ayotlan y Arandas. Primero necesito encontrar mas informacion de J. Refugio Hernandez Ayala, nacido aproximandamente en 1880, en la region de La Barca o Ayotlan Jalisco.
Gracias Daniel,
Roberto Hdez
hola Roberto,
Bienvenido al apasionante mundo de la genealogia, estoy segura de que entre
los miembros de nuestros ranchos encontrarás mucha ayuda.
Te recomiendo visites el sitio de https://www.familysearch.org/search/ ahi
puedes realizar las busquedas que necesitas y con un poco de suerte
encontrarás los datos de la parroquia y la fecha exacta del bautiso, de ahi
puedes consultar los registros digitalizados, aqui te pongo el link para que
puedas entrar a los registros de jalisco
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
En las partidas bautismales podras conseguir los nombres de los padres y con
un poco mas de suerte, la de los abuelos....y asi vuelves a empezar el
proceso.
Otro consejo...es excelente que te quieras enfocar en tu linea paterna, pero
mantente abierto, a mi por ejemplo se me ha facilitado mucho mas encontrar
los registros de las lineas maternas, cuestion de suertee.
Y finalmente, si un día buscaste en family search y no encontraste, vuelvelo
a intentar en un par de semanas, constantemente estan actualizando la base
de datos!!!
Mucha Suerte y de nuevo, bienvenido
A todos los demas miembros de nuestros ranchos, mil perdones por ser
repetitiva, todo esto nos parece tan obvio, pero alguien te lo tiene que
decir por primera vez, una idea, poner en el sitio un lugar donde se
explique todo esto del family search y como funciona, si necesitan ayuda,
con mucho gusto los ayudo a redactar una guia para principiantes
2011/8/23
> Hola a todos,
>
> Soy un miembro nuevo con cero experiencia en el tema de la Genealogía y
> por lo pronto, solo estoy interesado en investigar el origen de mi apellido
> Paterno(línea directa Paterna), Hernandez. Cuando adquiera madurez y
> experiencia, me enfocaré en mis otras ramas genealógicas. Mi abuelo
> paterno, J. Samuel Hernandez, nació en El Fraile (municipio de Ayotlan (Ayo
> el chico)), Jalisco en 1910, tuvo varios hermanos/as, de los cuales algunos
> aun viven. Basado en el acta de bautismo de mi Abuelo (J. Samuel); Sus
> Padres fueron: J. Refugio Hernandez Ayala y Maria Cruz Ruiz Soria, Abuelos
> Paternos: José Ysabel Hernandez y Maria Refugio Ayala, Abuelos Maternos:
> Casildo Ruiz y Maria Refugio Soria. Entre aproximadamente 1920 y 1930, mi
> Bisabuelo, J. Refugio, y toda la familia, emigró al norte del estado de
> Michoacán. Ya para el censo Mexicano de 1930, ellos residían en San
> Gregorio (municipio de Pajuacaran) Michoacán.
> Estoy teniendo dificultad en encontrar el acta de bautismo de mi bisabuelo,
> J. Refugio. Ya lo busqué en los archivos de la iglesia de Ayotlan, pero no
> lo encuentro, es muy probable que el haya nacido en San Antonio (San
> Antonio de Rivas?) en el municipio de La Barca, Jalisco, Ya que encontré a
> tres posibles hermanas, hijas de J. Ysabel Hernandez y Maria Refugio Ayala.
> Ellas son: Eulalia nacida en 1870, Yrinea en 1875, y Saturnina en 1883,
> todas ellas nacidas en San Antonio, La Barca, Jalisco. Encontré el acta de
> bautismo de J. Ysabel Hernandez nacido en 1841 en San Antonio, La Barca
> Jalisco. También encontré a dos posibles hermanos de Antonio Hernandez
> (Papá de J. Ysabel), ellos son José Victorino nacido en el Rancho de Texas
> (Municipio de La Barca Jalisco) en 1788 y José Marcial nacido en el Rancho
> de Tejas(Texas) (Municipio de La Barca Jalisco) en 1802. J. Victorino y J.
> Marcial son hijos de José de los Santos Hernandez y Maria Gertrudis
> Aguilera, también Antonio es hijo de ellos, pero al igual que con el acta de
> bautismo de J. Refugio, tampoco he podido encontrar la de Antonio.
> Nota: Toda esta información que he proporcionado está basada en actas de
> bautismo y el censo Mexicano de 1930 solamente.
>
> Ahora mi misión es encontrar el acta de bautismo de J. Refugio Hernandez
> Ayala, nacido aproximadamente en 1880 (basado en su edad durante el censo
> Mexicano de 1930) en el Municipio de La Barca o Ayotlan (Ayo el Chico)
> Jalisco, y así poder o no poder hacer la conexión con Los Hernandez de San
> Antonio, La Barca Jalisco que he encontrado. También necesito encontrar más
> información de Antonio Hernandez, posible hermano de J. Marcial y J.
> Victorino, e hijos de Jose de los Santos Hernandez y Maria Gertrudis
> Aguilera.
>
> Cualquier pista o ayuda que algún miembro pueda proporcionar será muy
> agradecida,
>
> Sinceramente,
> Roberto Hdez
Muchas Gracias Martha,
Ha sido en FamilySearch donde he encontrado las actas de bautismo y el censo Mexicano de 1930, pero aun no conosco todas las herrramientas y ayuda que puedo encontrar en FamilySearch.
Tienes una muy buena idea sobre poner una guia alas funciones de FamilySearch.
Nuevamente Gracias,
Roberto Hdez
You can leave the given name slot blank and just write the surname. That still works.
Victoriano Navarro
Me pueden dar la liga de parroquias del estado de Aguascalientes