I would like for someone who understands Spanish better than I do to look at a document and tell me what it is about. It is about my ancestors Pedro and Juan Casillas.
Hola Primos.
Hi Pauline,
I guess no one replied. I am also interested in this topic. My line is
Pedro de Anda I (1530-1619) and most notably, Isabel Gutierres de Altamirano (1535-?)
These are their descendants, my ancestors:
Their son:
Pedro de Anda Altamirano II (1551-1619)-Beatriz González de Castañeda (1556-1573)
Their son
Capt Estevan de Anda Altamirano - Catalina Gomez de Portugal
Their son
Pedro III - Catalina de Viduarre
His daughter
Antonia (not likely the daughter of Catalina) - Antonia is why I'm here.
I am curious if you ever found anything concrete on Isabel Guiterres de Altamirano. I am checking out some stuff on FamilySearch which is never accurate but usually leads me to a new find after a few days. I will check in again if it pans out. While I try to figure out who Antonia De Anda y Altamirano's father is.
One of my sets of 10th great grandparents were Antonia de Anda Altamirano (allegedly de Viduarre) and Pedro Mexia (Mejia).
El día de hoy hallé a los padres de don Diego de Orozco, abuelo materno del conquistador Juan de Villaseñor y Orozco.
Garcías Erik por compartir esta información sobre los Orosco. Cuando primero leí tu mensaje, lo primero que pensé es la pregunta que si Gonzalo Orosco sea de la familia de Oroscos que tienen parentesco con la familia Covarrubias. Después de leer otra vez tu mensaje hoy, me llegó la idea que también hay que buscar si son de la familia de los López de Orosco.
Rick A. Ricci
Hola Rick,
Un gusto saludarte de nuevo. Hay que considerar lo que propones sobre los López de Orozco. Le comenté este hallazgo al investigador Jorge Barba Gómez y hablamos también sobre la posible conexión que pudieran tener con el presidente de la Real Audiencia Jerónimo de Orozco.
Independientemente de ello tenemos que aproximarnos al origen de la Encomienda de la Cámara de los Privilegios cuyo primer poseedor fue un Diego de Orozco cuyo domus estaba en el castillo de Uclés cuya tenencia fue posteriormente, como escribí en mi primer mensaje, de Diego de Orozco y Cornado al igual que de su padre Gonzalo.
Así que es posible que este Diego de Orozco, primer comendador de la Cámara de los Privilegios, sea el padre de Gonzalo.
Interesante es, además, que este Diego aparece como sobrino de Juan Díaz de Coronado, prior de Uclés, cuyo apellido también lo tiene la esposa de Gonzalo: Margarita García de Cornado (sic).
http://repositori.uji.es/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10234/159431/1996%2C_12…
(Ver página 71 de este estudio de Miguel Rodríguez Llopis).
Erik R.
P.s. Es otro tema pero ayer que estaba limpiando mis correos electrónicos pensé en compartir los correos que tengo de mi tío Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, específicamente las partes con contenido genealógico para ver si ayudan a alguien en sus investigaciones. Aún no sé si hacerlo en este foro o en mi sitio colocando el enlace aquí pero ya resolveré cómo.
Después de analizar las fechas de cada generación me parece que el primer titular de la Encomienda de la Cámara de los Privilegios también conocida como de Pozorrubio era Diego de Orozco y Coronado -hijo de Gonzalo de Orozco y de Margarita García de Cornado, antepasado de Juan de Villaseñor- debido a que aparece como comendador en 1467.
De acuerdo con el estudio de Miguel Rodríguez Llopis Juan Díaz de Coronado era Prior de Uclés en 1440 por lo que Margarita pudo haber sido hermana o deuda cercana del Prior Juan Díaz y de Alfonso Díaz de Coronado, comendador de Villafranca.
Otra: Sabemos que Guiomar de Sandoval o Gutiérrez como aparece en este pleito de hidalguía era hija de un Pedro de Sandoval y de Catalina Fernández. La aparición del patronímico Gutiérrez me hace pensar que su padre Pedro (Gutiérrez de Sandoval?) pudo haber pertenecido al linaje de los señores de la Ventosa (Villas de la Ventosa - Provincia de Cuenca). Quizás era descendiente de Gutierre de Sandoval, IV señor de La Ventosa?
Lo apunto como una posibilidad.
Erik R.
Hola Erick:
Recibe una felicitación por los muchos esfuerzo que has realizado para lograr las probanzas de tus linajes. Se requiere mucha constancia y cuidado para ello. Te felicito también por tu generosidad al ofrecer a otros tus expedientes.
En alguna ocasión te comenté que conocí sobre los solares de Tejada y Valdeosera al estudiar a unos antepasados: Bernardino Sáenz de Cabezón quien fue padre de Pedro Sáenz de Cabezón y Petra Sáenz de Cabezón, el primero pasó de España a Puebla y sus hijos pasaron a las minas de Xichú en el noreste de Guanajuato.
También tengo entre mis antepasados a Don Juan Ramírez de Montoria, descendiente del Solar de La Piscina que dio lugar a la rama de Villaescusa de Haro. El Obispo Don Sebastián Ramírez de Fuenleal perteneciente a ésta rama pasó a gobernar las indias y distribuyó a los Ramírez en todos los territorios indianos.
Espero que tu paciencia y logros te lleven a disfrutar de escenarios interesantes y nuevas experiencias.
Marcelina
Estimada Marcelina,
De corazón mil gracias, me alegra leerte de nuevo. Sí, recuerdo bien a tus antepasados de Sáenz de Cabezón. Quizás ya lo hiciste pero vale la pena ver la obra "El Solar de Valdeosera" de Ramón José Maldonado y Cocat porque me da la impresión que pudieron haber estado registrados como Diviseros, ya sea ellos, sus descendientes o sus parientes. Si tienes más datos de su lugar de origen me gustaría buscar a ver si podemos subir unas generaciones más.
También te doy mi enhorabuena por la rama de los Ramírez de la Piscina, linaje fenomenal y principal de este Solar. Si mal no recuerdo el capítulo Argentino se formó con varios descendientes del conquistador Juan Ramírez de Velasco.
Un abrazo,
Erik R.
En el acta de nacimiento (extemporánea) de María Encarnación Valera y García de la Cadena, que se encuentra en
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRKP-HV3?i=2341&cc=192…
¿Será que dice Hacienda del Carro? Si es así, hoy se la conoce como Villa González Ortega, Zacatecas, México.
Hello,
Hello Sus,
The family in Michoacan was formed by Juan (not Juan Jose) de Llanos y Valdes, born in Asturias and secretary to the bishop of Valladolid. He married Maria de Comparan (not "de la Concepcion"), and his three known male children (Juan, Jose and Marcos) were priests who left no descendants. So far no family relationship connects these Llanos y Valdes with captain Juan Jose de LLanos y Valdes who was protector of the frontiers of San Luis de Colotlan, lived in Jerez and left numerous descendants there.
Juan Jose de Llanos y Valdes, the captain, is supposed to have been born in Asturias (in certain information provided by one of his grandchildren, he -or she, I don't recall right now- refers that his/her father (son of captain Juan Jose) was born in Asturias. Therefore I assume that his first marriage to Juana de Silva, or Ávila, took place in Asturias. Certainly, no information on Juana de Avila, or Silva, has been found in the Jerez region. His second marriage, to Marcela Ramos de Arreola, took place in Huejucar in 1685.
Regards,
Hector
.
I can't believe I did not put the source record but I have this:
.
marriage dispensation requested from la sagrada mitra 23 Jan 1833 in Tepetongo, Zac
Jose Roman Carlos single from lo de Salas living in la Estancia, Tep. since childhood age 25
parents: Don Jose Gregorio Carlos deceased and Dona Maria Gertrudis Godin
with Dona Maria Gertrudis Gonsales from Juanchorry now living in Estancia age 19
widow of Don Jose Dario Valdes 4 years buried in Tepetongo
parents: Don Jose Laurencio Gonsales and Dona Maria Ricarda Lespro both living
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
Trunk ..Jose Valdes (Juan Jose Llanos y Valdes and both wives
mother Juana de Avila... mother Marcela Ramos
J. Felipe Valdes.........Ma. Antonia Valdes.. half sisters 1st
J. Bonifacio Valdes......Juan Jose Carlos.. 2nd
Ma. Guadalupe Valdes.....J. Gregorio Carlos.. 3rd
J. Dario Valdes..........J. Roman Carlos.. 4th
Thank you for the info:
very important, does the dispensation says JUANA DE AVILA or JUANA DE SILVA??
I know there are 2 different sets of Juan Joseph de Llanos y Valdes
1. Juan Joseph de Llanos y Valdes, married to Marcela Ramos and Juana de Silva.
Juana de silva's mom is Antonia de Silva. The parents of "this" juan Joseph de llanos y Valdes are Felipe de LLanos y Valdes and Angela de Aguilera. He was born in Madrid
2. Juan Joseph de llanos y Valdes married to Juana de Avila Carlos de Godoy. The parents of Juana de Avila are Thomas de Avila Cabral and Catalina Carlos de Godoy. "This" juan joseph, his parents are Juan Joseph de llanos y Valdes and Maria de Comparan (don't have a source for this information), but likely he was born in Morelia Michoacan
For the longest time I thought there was just one Juan Joseph de Llanos y Valdes living in the Jerez area, because both ,after all, were married to "juana". Now I'm trying to organized both lines.
Thank you so much for the information
saludos desde seattle
sus leniski
.
.
marriage 13 June 1685 in Jerez, Zac
Juan Joseph Llanos y Baldes living in Colotlan Huejucar, Jalisco from Madrid Spain
parents: Phelipe Llanos y Baldes and Dona Angela de Agilera
with Marcela Ramos
mother: Juana Silva
.
death 10 May 1716 in Jerez, Zac
Capitan Juan Joseph Llanos y Valdez Espanol
wife: Marcela Ramos
source: 440986 burials
page 92 Familysearch online
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
Trunk.....Juan Jph Llanos y Valdes
Felipe Valdes.......................Catarina Valdes..1st degree
Ysabel Valdes .....................Salvador de la Torre 2nd
George Felix de Arellano.. Ma. Josefa de la Torre ..3rd
Ma. Antonia Felix de Arellano..Juan Nepomuceno Salinas.4th
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
Trunk ...Juan Joseph Llanos y Valdes
D. Catarina Valdes..................D. Felipe Valdes..1st
D. Salvador de la Torre..........D. Rita Valdes..2nd
D. Ma. Josefa de la Torre......D. Magdalena Miranda..3rd
D. Domingo Vicente Salinas. D. Maria Josefa Carrillo. 4th
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk..D. Juan Joseph Valdes and D. Juana de Avila
D. Felipe Valdes...............D. Ynes Valdes...1st degree
D.Rita Valdes....................D. Domingo Acevedo...2nd
D. Ana Maria Ramires....D. Juana Rosalia Acevedo..3rd
D. Fran. Xavier Roman....D. Yldefonsa Felix ..4th degree
.
marriage dispensation 3rd degree igual
Trunk..Juan Joseph Baldes and Juana de Avila
Salvador Baldes.....Felipe Baldes.....1st degree
Antonio Baldes.......Juan Jph Baldes..2nd degree
Fernando Baldes....Antonia Baldes....3rd degree
.
Trunk...Juan Joseph Llanos y Valdes
D. Catarina Valdes..................D. Felipe Valdes..1st
D. Salvador de la Torre...........D. Rita Valdes..2nd degree
D. Ma. Josefa de la Torre.......D. Magdalena Miranda..3rd
D. Domingo Vicente Salinas. D. Maria Josefa Carrillo.4
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
Trunk ..Jose Valdes (Juan Jose Llanos y Valdes and both wives
mother Juana de Avila... mother Marcela Ramons
J. Felipe Valdes................Ma. Antonia Valdes.. half sisters 1st
J. Bonifacio Valdes..........Juan Jose Carlos.. 2nd
Ma. Guadalupe Valdes.....J. Gregorio Carlos.. 3rd
J. Dario Valdes..................J. Roman Carlos.. 4th
.
dispensation 3rd degree in 4th degree
Trunk.. Juan (Llanos) Valdes
Felipe Valdes.................Ynes Valdes.. siblings 1s
Ysabel Valdes................Maria Acevedo.. 2nd
George Felix Arellano…Tomas Albares Ron... 3rd
........................................Ma. Jesus Albares Ron.. 4th
marriage dispensation 3rd degree
Trunk.. Don Juan (Llanos) Valdes
Don Felipe Valdes.......Antonia Valdes.. 1st degree
Dona Ysabel Valdes...Juan Carlos... 2nd degree
Don Rafael Felis..........Don Gregorio Carlos... 3rd degree
Gertrudis Codina.. bride.... widower
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk.. Don Juan Valdes and Dona Juana de Avila
Don Felipe Valdes.........Don Salvador Valdes.. 1st degree
Don Ysidro Valdes........Don J. Antonio Valdes.. 2nd degree
Don Ygnacio Valdes.....Don Estevan Valdes.. 3rd degree
Dona Barbara Valdes...Don Fermin Valdes.. 4th degree
.
Could you please provide the source for Felipe de Llanos y Valdes and Angela de Aguilera, that you mention as parents of Juan Jose de Llanos y Valdes, as well as Madrid as his birthplace?
Thank you very much!
Hector
https://www.facebook.com/messenger_media/?thread_id=1616479926&attachme…
see if you can open this link. I have the record but can't seem to post it here and don't have the source either... this gives both or all 3 wives, the record confuses me..
Hello,
Thank you for all the information.
This is what I have. I have 2 Juan Joseph de LLanos y Valdes living around Jerez.
1. Juan Joseph de LLanos y Valdes (son of Felipe de Llanos y Valdes and Angela de Aguilera) Born in 1652. He married Juana de Silva (dau. of Antonia de Silva) and second marriage with Marcela Ramos. This relationship was explain with the marriage between juan joseph and marcela (the second wife)
2. Juan Joseph de LLanos y Valdes (unknown parents) married to Juana de Avila Carlos de Godoy (dau. of Thomas de Avila and Catalina Carlos de Godoy)
According with the information that I have Juana de Avila and Juana de Silva are not the same person. And now we can eliminate the llanos y valdes family from michoacan with the 3 priest sons (thank you for the info).
I agreed this is quite confusing...
saludos
sus
Here is the link to the dispensa that mentions the parents of Juan Joseph de llanos y Valdes from Madrid, Espana
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D293-K?i=65&cc=1874591…
Please can you give me the source for this dispensa???:
marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
Trunk ..Jose Valdes (Juan Jose Llanos y Valdes and both wives
mother Juana de Avila... mother Marcela Ramons
J. Felipe Valdes................Ma. Antonia Valdes.. half sisters 1st
J. Bonifacio Valdes..........Juan Jose Carlos.. 2nd
Ma. Guadalupe Valdes.....J. Gregorio Carlos.. 3rd
J. Dario Valdes..................J. Roman Carlos.. 4th
Who do you have the parents for Juana de Avila and Juana de Silva??
sus
I just read again that you don't have the source for the dispensa, sorry. I'm going to try to find it. I think maybe something was reported wrong in the dispensa. Don't know.
Who do you have for parents for the 2 Juana's ??
saludos again
sus
Hello Erlinda,
I'm still looking, trying to find the source for your dispensa. Do you think could be in the ordenes collection??
What is your best guess??
thanks in advance
sus
Hi,
Here is the link to Erlinda's dispensa from Dario Valdes and gertrudis gonzalez.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-65SD-MR?i=564&cc=18745…
Then I think the answer is, (1 Juan Joseph with 3 wives):
Juan joseph de Llanos y Valdes (son of Felipe de Llanos and Angela de Aguilera)
married:
1. Juana de Silva (dau of antonia de Silva). Unknown children
2. Marcela Ramos (dau Estefania Ramos and unknown father): Children: Juan joseph and Antonia
3. Juana de Avila (dau thomas de avila and catalina Carlos de Godoy) children: catharina, Phelipe, Ynes, Salvador and Antonia
Am I right?? Comments??
thank you again
sus
.
can you share the source for the parents of Juana de Avila? I have not found them. In my file I have Juana de Avila daughter of Tomas and Catalina Carlos de Godoy married to Fernando Llamas. .
.
baptism 18 April 1688 in Jerez, Zac
Salvador Espanol born in Jerez
parents: Fernando de Lamas and Juana de Avila
godparents: Pedro Carlos de Godoy and Dona Juana de la Torre his wife
from Jerez
source: 439844 Film
page 95 Familysearch online
.
Salvador took his maternal grandmothers surname Catalina Carlos de Godoy married to Tomas de Avila who's daughter Juana de Avila married to Fernando Lamas was Salvador's Mother.
.
Hi,
The source is the
6. Mariana de la Cruz Carlos de Godoy. Escritura de la fundacion de la capellania de la Hacienda de la Sauceda. Jerez, Zacatecas. Mexico. 18 oct 1681. (transcripcion). No se ha encontrado el original de este documento, y se desconoce el origen de la transcripcion.
I just have the transcription of the document. I need to search where is the actual document. Here is the section that makes reference to Juana de avila
Dijo a la primera pregunta tener pleno conocimiento del Bachiller don Bartolome de la Torre, como oriundo de esta referida villa, y su sobrino en segundo con cuarto grado de sanguinidad, y así mismo sabe que del legítimo matrimonio que hubieron contraido don Isidro de la Torre, difunto y doña Casilda Salcedo, procrearon entre diversos hijos al dicho Bachiller don Bartolome de la Torre, reconociendole, criandole, alimentandole y educandole como a tal su legítimo hijo, y le consta que el expresado don Isidro de la Torre, es legítimo hijo de don Jacinto de la Torre, Regidor Fiel Ejecutor que fue en esta dicha villa y de doña Catarina Valdés, primeros abuelos de dicho Bachiller. A la segunda responde, que la dicha doña Catalina Valdés fue hija legítima de don Juan José de Llanos y Valdés y de doña Juana de Avila, bisabuelos de dicho Bachiller. Responde a la tercera, que por instrumentos testamentarios, que se hayan en su poder, esta constante, que don Tomás de Avila fue casado con doña Catarina Carlos de Godoy, en donde consta haber sido su legítima hija doña juana de Avila y hermana la dicha Catarina de doña Mariana de la Cruz, que en cuanto a los padres, que se dice haber sido de doña Mariana de la Cruz, y de la dicha su hermana Catarina, no tiene noticia individual, para su certeza plena estan solamente de la dicha Catarina Carlos de Godoy, que lo fueron don Juan Carlos de Godoy y doña María Rosales. Responde a la cuarta, que lo relacionado es publico y notario, y la verdad, y lo que sabe, bajo de su juramento, en que se afirmó, y leido ratifico, diciendo tener de edad 56 años, y aunque le tocan las generales de la ley, como tiene expresado, no falta a la religión del juramento, y lo firmo con su merced, de que doy fe. Bernardo Román. José Tomás Colón de Larreategui. Ante mí Francisco Javier Zesati Notario Público. (foto No. 8)
.
could this be Mariana de la Cruz daughter of Tomas de Avila and second wife Felipa Carrillo?
.
marriage 7 Feb 1714 in Jerez, Zac
Nicolas de Trexo Espanol
parents: Nicolas de Trexo and Antonia Araces? both deceased
with Maria de Abila Espanola from district of Jerez
parents: Thomas de Abila and Phelipa Carillo
godparents: Joseph de Acuna and Michaela Carrillo
witness: Juan Manuel de la Cueba, Clemente de Acuna and Bartolome de Luna
source: 440059 film
page 25 Family search online
.
.
Marriage dispensation recorded 21 April 1680 in Jerez, Zac
Tomas de Avila from Jerez
Parents: hijo natural de Favian Davila and Juana Cabral
Widower of Catolina Carlos
With Felipa Carrillo Espanola from Jerez age 17
Parents: Diego Carrillo and Francisca Orosco
.
Marriage dispensation 3rd in 4th degree
Trunk.. Fernando Gonsales and Maria Sid
Maria Sid…….....…Cathalina Caldera.. sisters 1st degree
Favian Davila.…..Pedro Carrillo…2nd degree
Thomas Davila…...Diego Carrillo….3rd degree
…………………….........Felipa Carrillo.. 4th degree
Source sagrada mitra film 1068604
Page 97 Familysearch online
.
marriage dispensation 3rd degree in 4th degree
Trunk..........Tomas De Avila
Onofre de Avila..............Antonia de Avila..1st degree
Antonio Trinidad de Avila....Maria Carrillo....2nd degree
Jose Lino de Avila...........Tomas de Casas......3rd degree
.............................Maria Tiburcia de Casas 4th degree
source: 1068604 sagrada mitra marriage 1638-1699
page 97 Familysearch online
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
Trunk..Tomas de Avila and Catharina Carlos
Antonia de Avila..........Onofre de Acuna..1st degree
Maria Carrillo............Micaela de Acuna..2nd
Marcelo de Casas..........Christobal de Acuna..3rd
Vicente Ferrer de Casas.. Josefa Acuna..4th
.
.
I also have this:
~
8th Great Grandfather of Chet Castanon
.
marriage dispensation 2nd degree in 3rd degree
Trunk... Juan Carlos and Maria Rosales
Antonio Carlos... Catharina Carlos..1st degree
Juana Rosales....Catharina dabila..2nd degree
Antonia Caldera.............3rd degree
note: it appears Joseph had a relationship with Catharina Dabila a married woman.
source: Sagrada Mitra 168605
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk.. Juan Carlos de Godoy and Maria Rosales
Joseph Carlos.............Antonio Carlos..1st degree
Antonio Carlos............ Juana Rosales..2nd degree
Theresa Carlos............Ysabel Sid Calera..3rd degree
Gertrudis Fernandes...Francisco Acuna..4th degree
.
I also have this:
marriage 13 May 1713 in Jerez, Zac
Ygnacio Carlos de Godoi Espanol from district of Jerez
widower of Maria de Miranda Espanola
with Maria Nicolasa de Balensuela Espanola from district of Jerez
parents: Antonio Balensuela deceased and Ysabel de Ledesma
godparents: Francisco de Asevedo and Dona Ynes Llanos y Valdes
witness: Capitan Don Francisco Balensuela, Alcalde Maior Don Pedro Gomes de la Ganseda? Don Ba. Gomes de la Madris and many others
source: 0440059 Jerez marriage
page 9 Family search online
.
marriage dispensation requested Octubre 22 de 1686 in Xerez, Zac
Dispensa de tercero con cuarto grado de consanguinidad -
Ignacio Carlos de Godoy, narural y vecino de esu jurisdicción.
parents: Sebastián Carlos de Godoy y de Doña Agustina de Velasco.
with Maria de Miranda natural y vecina de dicha jurisdiccion
legítima de Juan de Miranda y de Beatriz Rosales, difuntos. Declaración delparentesco:
Que Antonia Rosales y Agustina Rosales, fueron hermanas legítimas, yde la dicha Antonia Rosales, nació Beatriz Rosales, madre de la pretensa, y de la dicha Agustina Rosales, nació María Rosales, madre del dicho Sebastián Carlos de Godoy, padre del pretenso, por lo que Antonia Rosales es abuela de la contrayente y Agustina Rosales es bisabuela del pretenso. 10 fojas.
.
marriage dispensation 3rd degree in 4th degree
Trunk......Agustina Rosales
Maria Rosales................Mateo Rodarte. siblings.1st degree
Catalina Carlos d Godoy......Juan Rodarte...2nd degree
Onofre de Avila..............Margarita Rodarte..3rd degree
Tomas de Avila...............4th degree
Declaración del pretenso:
source: sagrada mitra 167984 film
page 511Familysearch online
.
Trunk Unknown Rosales
Antonia Rosales......Agustina Rosales..sisters 1st degree
Beatris Rosales……....Maria Rosales...2nd degree
Maria Miranda….….....Sebastian Carlos de Godoy..3rd degree
.....................Ygnacio Carlos de Godoy..4th degree
.
.
.
I also have this:
~
8th Great Grandfather of Chet Castanon
.
marriage dispensation 2nd degree in 3rd degree
Trunk... Juan Carlos and Maria Rosales
Antonio Carlos... Catharina Carlos..1st degree
Juana Rosales....Catharina dabila..2nd degree
Antonia Caldera.............3rd degree
note: it appears Joseph had a relationship with Catharina Dabila a married woman.
source: Sagrada Mitra 168605
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk.. Juan Carlos de Godoy and Maria Rosales
Joseph Carlos.............Antonio Carlos..1st degree
Antonio Carlos............ Juana Rosales..2nd degree
Theresa Carlos............Ysabel Sid Calera..3rd degree
Gertrudis Fernandes...Francisco Acuna..4th degree
.
I also have this:
marriage 13 May 1713 in Jerez, Zac
Ygnacio Carlos de Godoi Espanol from district of Jerez
widower of Maria de Miranda Espanola
with Maria Nicolasa de Balensuela Espanola from district of Jerez
parents: Antonio Balensuela deceased and Ysabel de Ledesma
godparents: Francisco de Asevedo and Dona Ynes Llanos y Valdes
witness: Capitan Don Francisco Balensuela, Alcalde Maior Don Pedro Gomes de la Ganseda? Don Ba. Gomes de la Madris and many others
source: 0440059 Jerez marriage
page 9 Family search online
.
marriage dispensation requested Octubre 22 de 1686 in Xerez, Zac
Dispensa de tercero con cuarto grado de consanguinidad -
Ignacio Carlos de Godoy, narural y vecino de esu jurisdicción.
parents: Sebastián Carlos de Godoy y de Doña Agustina de Velasco.
with Maria de Miranda natural y vecina de dicha jurisdiccion
legítima de Juan de Miranda y de Beatriz Rosales, difuntos. Declaración delparentesco:
Que Antonia Rosales y Agustina Rosales, fueron hermanas legítimas, yde la dicha Antonia Rosales, nació Beatriz Rosales, madre de la pretensa, y de la dicha Agustina Rosales, nació María Rosales, madre del dicho Sebastián Carlos de Godoy, padre del pretenso, por lo que Antonia Rosales es abuela de la contrayente y Agustina Rosales es bisabuela del pretenso. 10 fojas.
.
marriage dispensation 3rd degree in 4th degree
Trunk......Agustina Rosales
Maria Rosales................Mateo Rodarte. siblings.1st degree
Catalina Carlos d Godoy......Juan Rodarte...2nd degree
Onofre de Avila..............Margarita Rodarte..3rd degree
Tomas de Avila...............4th degree
Declaración del pretenso:
source: sagrada mitra 167984 film
page 511Familysearch online
.
Trunk Unknown Rosales
Antonia Rosales......Agustina Rosales..sisters 1st degree
Beatris Rosales……....Maria Rosales...2nd degree
Maria Miranda….….....Sebastian Carlos de Godoy..3rd degree
.....................Ygnacio Carlos de Godoy..4th degree
.
.
Hi Erlinda,
Here is the link to the whole document. (the transcription is at the bottom, too bad it doesn't include a source for this document)
https://gw.geneanet.org/salvadorcabral?lang=es&n=carlos+de+godoy&oc=0&p…
This Mariana de la cruz has to be another daughter of Juan Carlos de Godoy and Maria Rosales. (sister of Catalina Carlos de Godoy mother of Juana de Avila)
Now regarding Juana de Avila, I was thinking that maybe you are right. Maybe her marriage with Juan Joseph de llanos y valdes was her second marriage (Lamas is death). It was after all HIS third marriage. Maybe something to keep in mind.
What do think??
saludos
sus
Again me Erlinda,
I was looking at the family tree from Salvador Cabral Valdes (link that I sent you)
https://gw.geneanet.org/salvadorcabral?lang=es&n=carlos+de+godoy&oc=0&p…
He has some mistakes, for example writes Juana de Silva y de Avila, now we know that they are 2 different people.
Also he has 3 Juana's (i think she is the same person) . One of them married to Juan Joseph de llanos, another one married to Hernando de Llamas (that you already have). Now my question, the tree has another marriage with Andres Garcia de la Fuente.
Do you have anything about this Andres??
He is news to me, no idea.
saludos
sus
.
I don't have another couple named Juana de Avila married to any Andres Garcia...Garcia de la Fuente..Garcia de la Cadena..that's a new one to me.
thank you..
.
I can't believe I did not put the source record but I have this:
.
marriage dispensation requested from la sagrada mitra 23 Jan 1833 in Tepetongo, Zac
Jose Roman Carlos single from lo de Salas living in la Estancia, Tep. since childhood age 25
parents: Don Jose Gregorio Carlos deceased and Dona Maria Gertrudis Godin
with Dona Maria Gertrudis Gonsales from Juanchorry now living in Estancia age 19
widow of Don Jose Dario Valdes 4 years buried in Tepetongo
parents: Don Jose Laurencio Gonsales and Dona Maria Ricarda Lespro both living
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
Trunk ..Jose Valdes (Juan Jose Llanos y Valdes and both wives
mother Juana de Avila... mother Marcela Ramons
J. Felipe Valdes.........Ma. Antonia Valdes.. half sisters 1st
J. Bonifacio Valdes......Juan Jose Carlos.. 2nd
Ma. Guadalupe Valdes.....J. Gregorio Carlos.. 3rd
J. Dario Valdes..................J. Roman Carlos.. 4th
Hello,
Hi Sus,
This couple are my ancestors. Maria Luisa de Chirriaga is also known as Maria Ysabel. I have identified 6 children so far for Maria Luisa and Pedro: Christoval, Francisco, Luysa, Pedro, Gabriel, and Antonia. Christoval, Pedro (my ancestor), and Antonia all married, although the only one I have identified with children are Christoval and Pedro. I haven't done extensive research on them, but I found what I could.
Is there some specific aspect that I can try and help you with? I have not found any additional children for Pedro de Chirriaga and Luisa de Ortiz aside from Maria Luisa.
Rosalinda
Hola Rosalinda,
The only thing that I have for this couple is the following:
Pedro de Chirriaga (the husband) was a resident of Aguascalientes in 1648. He died in 1671 in the same city.
Luisa de Ortiz (wife of Pedro) (Other last names used Gonzalez or Anda). Resident of Aguascalientes in 1648. Died in the same city in 1687. The only import clue is that Pedro and Luisa in 1648 were living with some guy Diego de Ortiz, maybe related to Luisa de Ortiz.
So far I found only 1 daughter Maria Luisa de Chirriaga Ortiz who married 2 jul 1662 Pedro del Muro in aguascalientes. I have the same 6 children that you have. (Note Antonia was in reality the daughter of Roque de Luebana and not Pedro)
I'm guessing the couple had more than 1 child, but I don't have any idea. I saw that there was a Echerreaga family in zacatecas, but I don't know if "my" pedro is somehow related. Also no idea about the wife.
Do you have any ideas where to look?
Thank you so much
saludos
sus
Hello forum.
There is a very interesting document, a suit filed by Nicolas Ruiz against his father Br. Jose Ruiz in 1672.
Juana de Sandoval is the grandmother of Gregorio de Bejar (b. 1625), the witness in the Ruizes case. She also is the mother of Gregorio de Bejar (b. ab. 1597), this last Gregorio de Bejar is the husband of Ana Maria de Liebana.
Rubén Hernandez
Hello Ruben,
I was looking at the documents you are referring to late last month. I'll add my two cents. Isabel Perez de Najera had a confirmed sister - Juana Perez de Najera. There are two documents that prove that, one is the document describing the dote given to Franciso Manzo Perez when he married Damiana Ortiz de Luna y Avina. Franciso Manzo's parents were Melchor Manzo Corona and Juana Perez de Najera - the first Spanish couple to settle in the area of present-day Cotija. There's also a dispensa that talks about Juana and Isabel being sisters:
Essentially, we find out that Diego is the great-grandson of Juana Perez de Najera (wife of Melchor Manzo Corona), while the deceased husband of Juana de Loera, Gregorio de Robledo/Bejar was the great-grandson of Isabel Perez de Najera (wife of Gonzalo de Sandoval)
Now we need to add some time context as to when Juana and Isabel were having children. I know that Melchor and Juana baptized a child in Mexico City in 1540:
Melchor Manzo Perez - (Mexico City, Mexico - October 1540
The aforementioned Francisco Manzo Perez was born around 1559 in Morelia, Michoacan as he stated to the Spanish Inquisition:
Proceso contra Francisco Manzo por blasphemia (Santiago Acahuato, Michoacan March 13, 1619)
Unfortuantely, I haven't been able to find any documents that give an idea as to when Gonzalo de Sandoval and Isabel Perez Najera had their children. We can only assume around the same time as Melchor Manzo Corona and Juana Perez Najera.
Isabel del Castillo (daughter of Juan de Baeza and Isabel Perez) is rougly around the same generation as the children of the two Perez de Najera sisters. We know this from the testimony given by Fray Diego de Fuenllana brother of Isabel del Castillo:
Proceso contra Fray Diego de Fuenllana por solicitud (Mexico City, Mexico - November 14, 1582)
I therefore think that if Isabel Perez (wife of Gonzalo de Sandoval) was the same person as Isabel del Castillo (wife of Geronimo de Orozco) then two things don't line up:
1. Isabel Perez (Gonzalo de Sandoval's wife) was having children at the same time as Juan de Baeza and Isabel Perez. Gonzalo and Juan de Baeza were definitely contemporaries and both conquistadors.
2. There's no mention of Juana Perez in Fray Diego de Fuenllana's testimony, thus we can assume that Juan de Baeza and his wife never had a child named Juana and thus Juana Perez Najera was not a sister of Isabel del Castillo (wife of Geronimo de Orozco).
Daniel Serna Valencia
Like many times you have done before, you jump in with lots of very helpful information.
Regarding the two aspects not lining up:
(I apologize in advance for the following comments, if any of them is wrong or quite inaccurate)
1. The children of Juan de Baeza and Isabel Perez were born ab. 1540-1560. Gregorio de Bejar (Juana de Sandoval's son) was born ab. 1597 (Gregorio de Bejar's declaration in pre-marriage information of Jeronimo Rodriguez Morfin and Isabel de Orozco). My guess is that Juana de Sandoval was born ab. 1565-1575.
2. Fray Diego de Fuenllana doesn't list any deceased sibling (if there were any). Juana Perez de Najera died before 1585, most probably, she was dead by 1583.
On a note apart, I am confused by the conquistador Gonzalo de Sandoval, he died in 1528. Is there another conquistador also named Gonzalo de Sandoval?
Again, many thanks for the information you are sharing.
Ruben Hernandez
All good points Ruben. Your points made me think of one other possibility. Since Gonzalo de Sandoval (By the way, I know of only one Gonzalo de Sandoval who was a conquistador, died early on, and had children with Isabel Perez) died relatively early on... I wonder if Isabel Perez re-married after Gonzalo's death to Juan de Baeza? I hope we run into some document that helps to clear up the possible relation between these families.
Daniel Serna Valencia
Am I missing something, Daniel?
Conquistador Gonzalo de Sandoval died in 1528, if Juana de Sandoval (the mother of Gregorio de Bejar b. ab. 1597) is the conquistador's daughter, she would be 70 at the time Gregorio de Bejar was born.
Ruben Hernandez
If Gonzalo de Sandoval died in 1530 (at the latest per what's documented in various books about him), let's say Juana Perez de Sandoval was born at the latest - 1530. Her child Gregorio de Bejar y Sandoval (cc Maria de Liebana) wasn't born until 159x. Juana was indeed close to her 70s as you say when she supposedly had Gregorio (cc Maria de Liebana). I agree that it sounds very unlikely. Ultimately, I go back to my assertion that we need more documentation to help clear this up or at least verify some of the dates we've been given. I'm going to see if there's anything in PARES that might help clear some of this up.
On more than one occasion my research has found that people sometimes skipped a generation when constructing a family tree. So a father sometimes turned out to be a grandfather, or even great grandfather. Finding documentation of Gonzalo’s children is not an easy task as he had children with many different “companions”.
Rick A. Ricci
To view documents in the aguascalientes archive.
I haven't tried this yet, but if it works....FINALLY THANK YOU
I have recently bought and checked out several great books for my research on my paternal side.
Manny,
What information I do have is in line with what you presented. I don't have the same amount but what I do have does not conflict.
How did you confirm Ana Sanchez was married to a Juan Becerra? I haven't been able to locate her husband.
Alex
Hi Alex,
It’s funny that you ask that, because now that I look at what I have, while there are several dispensas that establish Ana Sanchez de Mendoza as the daughter of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano and Isabel de Mendoza, none of them explicitly state that she was married to Juan Becerra, only that she was the mother of Juan Becerra, who was married to Catalina Galindo. I guess it’s just naturally assumed that Juan Becerra was her husband. Maybe someone else has it sourced?
I’ve seen his name appearing in records:
On 21 Feb 1569, he was present during a cabildo (council meeting), and he was given the title “regidor.”
On 30 Aug 1590, he was present at the parish church door, when a towncryer announced that Juan Garcia de Santa Ana was to be granted some land (left image, second paragraph); Toribio Hernandez was present during one of the announcements, and gives a statement that appears in the right image, bottom. You’ll see names of other early residents on the same page.
I seem to remember seeing Juan Becerra’s name appear during the trial against parish priest, Padre Alonso Lopez de Espinar, in 1590-1592; I think, again, it was to say that he was present when something was taking place, but the writing was illegible.
Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Manny,
Thanks for the update. I have a feeling your assumption is correct but I was wondering if you had anything I didn't know about. Thank you also for the new references1
Alex
Thank you, gentlemen, for your help! I truly appreciate your replies.
This is great information! Thank you all. At the same time, I am now very confused. I think I have a better understanding of the connection between the families in Jalisco and the families in Puebla. The testament helps support that. Now the big question is (ok I have several)... who are the parents of Mariana de Mendoza? I see on wikitree that she is shown as the daughter of Toribo Hernandez and Isabel de Mendoza, but I'm not sold on that connection with out something substantial to back it up. I say that because I understand the "Diccionario genealógico de las familias alteñas" (Gutiérrez-Hurtado de Mendoza) names the children of Toribio and Isabel as Ana Sanchez de Mendoza, Gabriel Sanchez, Juana Bautista, Ysabel de Mendoza, and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza. However, it fails to name a daughter named Mariana or Maria. Again, that's my understanding, but I could be wrong.
The following text is also found within the publication Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia: v. 1. Diccionario genealógico de las familias alteñas (Gutiérrez-Hurtado de Mendoza) by Mariano González-Leal:
"El Capitán Francisco II Gutiérrez Rubio, el Mozo, -segundo de su nombre-, fue hijo -el quinto, según se desprende de la edad con que se le refiere en diversas actuaciones- del Capitán Francisco I Gutiérrez-Rubio, el Viejo, y de doña Anna González-Florida. Debió nacer, como atrás se señala, por 1595. Hacia 1618 casó con doña Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza, nacida en jurisdicción de Jalostotitlán por 1599 hija de Rodrigo de Olivares y de doña María Hurtado de Mendoza..."
If this is true, then Catalina has to be their daughter as well. On December 28, 1692, Joseph Jimenez (Oliveras) and Josefa de Padilla Avila (Gutierrez) petitioned the Catholic Diocese for dispensation. Testimony provided during the inquiry confirms that Joseph is the grandson of Catalina de Mendoza and Josefa is the granddaughter of Francisca de Mendoza.
The dispensa can be seen here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4J1-J?i=223&wc=3J48-M…
So, the other big question I have... Are Francisca and Catalina the daughters of Rodrigo? I ask because Rikki said they were Cristobal's daughters. I did not see any mention of either woman in Rodrigo's testament.
One last question I'd like to toss out there. I know Jaime Holcombe often referred to Toribio Hernandez as Toribio Hernandez de Arellano. But I have yet to see a single document for him or his children that refers to him as anything other than Toribio Hernandez. Can anyone point to a document on FamilySearch that shows he used Arellano as part of his surname?
As always, the information sharing has been very insightful.
Raul
Too add even more to the confusion there is this record that has many of the same names that we have been discussing:
Ejecutoria del pleito litigado por Juan de Olivares, vecino de Toro (Zamora), con Francisca Rodríguez Capellana, viuda de Cristóbal de Oliva ...
Ejecutoria del pleito litigado por Juan de Olivares, vecino de Toro (Zamora), con Francisca Rodríguez Capellana, viuda de Cristóbal de Olivares, curadora de sus hijos, sobre hacer cuenta por inventario de todos los bienes dejados por Alonso de Olivares, para proceder a su división
reference code:ES.47186.ARCHV//REGISTRO DE EJECUTORIAS,CAJA 1412,54
I went back to look at the records I have for the four sisters, Catalina, Francisca, Isabel and Ysabel (I deliberately spell her name with a Y to help me distinguish between the two).
Here's what I found:
Dispensa confirms Francisca (cc Francisco Gutierrez Rubio) & Isabel (cc Luis Padilla) are sisters:
For Josefa Padilla (Francisca) & Joseph Jimenez (Isabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4J1-J?i=223&wc=3J48-M…
Dispensa confirms Ysabel (cc Juan Jimenez) and Isabel (cc Gonzalo Ramirez) are sisters:
For Miguel Hernandez de Rueda (Isabel) & Maria Macias Valadez (Ysabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-629H-7L?i=208&wc=12512…
Dispensa confirms Catalina (Manuel Gomez) & Isabel (Luis Padilla) are sisters:
For Joseph Jimenez (Catalina) & Juan de la Mota Padilla (Isabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4J1-J?i=223&wc=3J48-M…
Dispensa confirms Ysabel (cc Juan Jimenez) and Francisca (cc Francisco Gutierrez Rubio) are sisters:
For Joaquin Gutierrez y Rubio (Francisca) & Luisa Macias Valadez (Ysabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D2R8-7?i=341&cc=1874591
So if just one can be shown as the daughter of Cristobal or Rodrigo Olivares, then we have the father of all.
Raul
Since I don’t descend from them, I haven’t really researched the Olivares’ that much, but only as collateral lines. That said,
Rick asked: Do you know how Alonso/Alfonso Olivares is related to them?
No, I don’t know.
Rick asked: Were Juan and Cristobal Olivares related?
I don’t know.
For the children of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano cc Isabel de Mendoza, I have:
- Ana Sanchez de Mendoza cc Juan Becerra
- Mariana de Mendoza cc Cristobal de Olivares
- Gabriel Sanchez de Mendoza cc Isabel Sanchez de Lara
- Isabel Sanchez de Mendoza cc Alvaro de Ornelas
- Juana Bautista Sanchez de Mendoza cc Alonso de Quezada
- Marta Sanchez de Mendoza cc Juan Sanchez de Lara
I have the wife of Cristobal Olivares listed as “Mariana de Mendoza,” because that’s how her name is written when she appeared as a witness in the trial against Padre Alonso Lopez de Espinar, which I discussed in this thread.
For the children of Cristobal de Olivares cc Mariana de Mendoza, I have:
- Maria de Mendoza cc Rodrigo de Olivares
- Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza “la Mayor” cc Gonzalez Ramirez Santillana m2. Luis de Padilla Davila.
- Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza cc Manuel Gomez de Portugal
- Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza cc Francisco Gutierrez Rubio
- Isabel de Olivares y Mendoza “la Menor” cc Juan Jimenez
I am not 100% about these relationships; I think this is compiled from dispensations, Jaime Holcombe, and what’s been discussed here at NR. And I don’t recall if Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza “la Mayor” was married to Luis de Padilla Davila, or if they just had issue together.
I hope this was helpful!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
I would like to thank Sandra for bringing up this question regarding the parents of Catalina Mendoza. In order to answer this question we must search out all primary sources on the subject, staring out with the testimony located in San Luis Potosi.
Cristobal Olivares and Mariana (Maria) de Mendoza are also the parents of Isabel Mendoza that is married to Gonzalo Ramirez. This is confirmed by A “testimonio” by Domingo de Lomelin.
Here is part of the “testimonio.”
“Este dicho dia mes y año dicho para Dicha ynformasion queda Gonzalo de Hermosillo ordenante presento por testigo a domingo de lomellin español vecino desta juridision del cual el dicho Sr bicario resibiyo juramento que hiso por dio nuestro sr y la señal de la crus socargo del cual prometio desir berdad de lo que supiere y se le fuere preguntado y siendole por el tenor del ynterogatorio dijo que conose al dicho Gonzalo de Hermosillo desde que nasio y sabe ques yjo lijitimo de Sebastian Ramires y de Maria de Hermosillo a los cuales bydo casar en esta juridicion y asimismo sabe quel dicho Sebastian Ramirez fue yjo lijitimo de Gonzalo Rarmires y de Ysabel de Mendoza su su lijitima mujer y quel dicho Gonzalo Ramires era natural de las españas de San Lucar de Barameda Y la dicha Ysabel Mendoza era yja lijitima de Cristobal de Olibares y de Mariana de Mendoza su lijitima mujer”
In a marriage dispensation, Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza (aka Francisca de Mendoza) that is married to Francisco Gutierrez Rubio, is identified as a sister To Isabel Mendoza that we have already confirmed to be a daughter of Cristobal de Olibares y de Mariana de Mendoza.
The marriage dispensation that confirms that “Francisca de Mendoza” and “Isabel Mendoza” are sisters is right here:
https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…
Bernabe Olivares is a son of Rodrigo Olivares and Maria Mendoza according to a marriage dispensation.
Thank you,
Rick A. Ricci
Cristobal de Olivares cc Mariana de Mendoza and Rodrigo de Olivares cc Maria de Mendoza are 2 different couples. Here’s Rodrigo de Olivares’ testamento, dated 12 Oct 1633 in San Luis Potosi. He was born in Puebla de los Angeles, Puebla, son of Juan de Olivares cc Francisca Rodriguez. His wife, Maria de Mendoza, was the daughter of Cristobal de Olivares and Mariana de Mendoza, of Lagos. They had been married for about 30 years when he submitted his will. This is explained on img422.
Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza and Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza were also daughters of Cristobal de Olivares cc Mariana de Mendoza.
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Hello Manny
Do you know how Alonso Alfonso) Olivares is related to them? Alfonso de Olivares was married to Josefa Esparza de Sotomayor. She is a descendant of lope Ruiz De Esparza and Ana Francisca Gabai Sotelo Moctezuma. Coach Tom Flores descends from Alfonso Olivares and Josefa.
Were Juan and Cristobal Olivares related?
Looking through my notes I found that you had previously provided me with the information that Rodrigo and Cristobal were two different people. Yet I still have many questions about this family as Bernabe is clearly the son of Rodrigo. Francisca and Isabel are the daughters of Cristoval. Who are the parents of Catalina?
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
I am new to this group and grateful to you for being here. Has anyone done studies of the history of specific ranchos?
You might be interested in these death records I found in La Yesca records.
If anyone is looking for the 1904 death certificates for Jesus Maria, Municipio del Nayar, Nayarit, you can find them under La Yesca civil registration (1889-1911). Pages 1500-1512.
Good luck!
Jesús María, Jalisco and Jesús María, Nayarit share the same name but are two distinct municipalities in neighboring states, and are easily confused for each other.
Records for Jesús María, Jalisco can be found here:
Welcome!
I also have Ángel from Jesús María in my family tree.
In the museum gift shop of the Museo Tlatelli Jesús María in Jesús María, Jalisco, I purchased the book listed below. It's not exactly what you're looking for, but it's close.
Title: Jesús María: memoria y tradición oral
Author: Rubén Romero González
Publisher: Rubén Romero González, 2017
Good luck!
Glenn
Dear Glenn,
Thanks for the lead. I've written to the museum to see if I can get a copy from them. I'll also try inter-library loan although it looks like it was self-published so it may not be easy.
Best,
Angelita
Dear all,
I am relatively new to Nueva Galicia genealogy and glad to be joining this community. Hopefully some of you may have not only similar questions but answers.
There are Family connections between Nueva Galicia and New Mexico but the ones that I know of are over two centuries ago. They were Vasques de Zermeño, Alcala, Robledo, de la Mora, Ochoa Garibay, Orosco, Villaseñor, and Villalpando, among others. One of my Villalpando ancestors was born in New Mexico when his parents were visiting family in Taos, New Mexico. After he was born, the family came back to live in Jalostotitlan Jalisco.
Rick A. Ricci
RootsTech Is Live: Free Genealogy Conference
Begins on pg 418:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-W926?i=417&cat=23…
1648 Census of Rancho Carboneras and Valparaiso, Zacatecas, Mexico, pg 427:
Buenos días,
Dejo lo siguiente para los interesados en la familia Machicao o Bachicao, antepasados por línea cognaticia de Lorenzo de Padilla-Dávila y Machicao.
* Donde dice Leonor de Machicao y Rivas, debe decir "Leonor de Machicao y Hervás", hija de Fernando de Machicao y de Constanza de Hervás y Mirabal, quien calculo debió haber nacido entre 1495 y 1500 por lo que cabe dentro de la cronología de este Fernando de Machicabo que obtuvo carta ejecutoria en 1495.
* El Duque de Arjona fue preso en 1429 y falleció en 1430, no en 1420 (error de dedo).
Hola Erik,
También son ancestros de una línea de Herrera que dejó muchos descendientes en México.
En una acta Leonor de Machicao y Hervás esta escrita “Leonor de Machicao Ruiz.” Yo pensaba que era error en leer pero ahora veo que viene lo Ruiz por su ancestro, Juan Ruiz.
Gracias,
Rick A. Ricci
Juan Ruiz was a writer. We should search for everything that he wrote for clues for continuing the research in this family.
Rick A. Ricci
Hola Rick,
Me causa mucha alegría leerte. Es muy interesante lo que comentas de Juan Ruiz como escritor, es un dato totalmente desconocido para mí. También me parece muy interesante que Leonor de Machicao usara también el apellido Ruiz, esto parece indicar que vamos por el camino correcto con los Machicao. Voy a seguir buscando a ver si hay algo de Juan Ruiz en la villa de Bachicabo que pudiera llevarnos a saber más de su origen.
Un abrazo,
Hola Erik,
Me dio mucho gusto ver lo que encontraste. Y si creo que vamos por el camino correcto con los Machicao. Y aunque vi que ese Juan Ruiz es un escritor, nunca he podido entrar lo que el ha escrito, ni más información. Hay otro Juan Ruiz que fue escritor pero ese vivió 200 años después. Hay que seguir buscando. Felicidades y Garcías por compartir.
Te debo una línea de ancestros que tenemos. Tengo otros dos proyectos que estoy terminando entonces el árbol que te debo será el tercer proyecto. Cuando termino el tercer proyecto serás el primero a recibirlo. No puede poner más sobre esa línea aquí por que es largo, con una rama que se pasa a Inglaterra. De Inglaterra pasó una rama aquí a Estados Unidos. Esta línea en Estados Unidos que son tus parientes Muy lejanos llevan el apellido “Chamberlain .”
Gracias otra vez y un abrazo,
Rick
Hola Erik,
Había una duda en la línea de los Padillas donde se sabía el nombre del abuelo pero genealogos no estában de acuerdo con los padres. Me gustaría saber si has podido aclarar esa situación.
Gracia,
Rick
Hola Rick,
Gracias a ti, hacemos buena mancuerna y estaré más que feliz de leer tu proyecto. Los que conocemos tu labor sé lo mucho que te has dedicado a estos. Sobre la rama Padilla...voy a hacer memoria, creo que ya sé cual es y te tengo más información nueva que me gustaría consultar contigo. Voy a abrir un segundo tema con el enlace de interés a ese testamento.
Un abrazo,
Erik
Hola Rick,
Muchas gracias, es curioso hasta donde llega la relación con los Machicao y para muestra un botón. Seguramente conoces esto pero lo dejo aquí de todas formas:
"Diligencias del proceso en la Audiencia de Canarias contra Isabel de Machicao, vecina de Canarias, amancebada con Francisco de Reinoso, criado del Licenciado Rojas de Carvajal." (1573-1575). (PARES)
Este documento es de interés por lo siguiente: en primer lugar el amancebamiento con un Reinoso, el que años antes fue Alguacil Mayor de Gran Canaria; y en segundo, porque ahí se menciona a Francisco de Asuaje, otro pariente de Sor Juana.
Ese Francisco de Asuaje habrá sido el hijo de Damián de Asuaje?
Saludos,
Erik
Hola Erik,
Gracias Erik, no tenia esa información. Hernando Machicao, el padre, era muy rico. En un artículo leí que encontraron unas cuentas sobres sus compras en un año. El tuvo que ser muy rico para hacer todas esas compras en menos de un año.
Muy interesante que los Machicao además de tener relación con los Herrera, Padilla, Lescano, Asuaje y Ramírez, tenga también relación con Los Reynoso. Hay que buscar este libro para ver qué más podemos encontrar:
“ Los conquistadores españoles : Hernando Machicao, sus descendientes, 1534-2002” escrito por Mario Ibáñez Machicao.
Thanks again,
Rick
Amén de la ejecutoria de hidalguía que hallé sobre Fernando de Machicao (1495) que coincide en fechas con el antepasado de los Padilla-Dávila de Nueva Galicia (vecino en aquel entonces de la villa de Boada de Campos) encontré hoy otra de Diego de Machicao vecino también de Palencia pero esta vez en la villa de Ampudia estando a escasos 12 km una de otra. Este Diego de Machicao litigó en 1541 declarando que estaba casado con Francisca de Orduña y tenían una hija llamada Isabel de Machicao.
Los padres de Diego fueron Álvaro de Orenes natural de Ampudia, e Isabel de Machicao.
Su padre fue regidor por el estado noble de Ampudia. Sus abuelos fueron Diego de Orenes de Somoza y Elvira Ortiz.
Su abuelo fue alcaide de la fortaleza de Dueñas en Palencia y "muy buen hidalgo". Murió cuando lo atacó un toro en la feria de Santa María de Agosto en Ampudia. Tenían diversas heredades y casas las cuales fueron vendidas a un tal Alonso Mayo.
SALA DE HIJOSDALGO,CAJA 726,9 (PARES).
Con esto contamos dos ejecutorias de hidalguía de esta familia.
Saludos,
Erik Andrés Reynoso.
I have a 1648 Census of Valparaiso, Zacatecas, Mexico which is 20 leguas from Fresnillo, Zacatecas.
As well as a census of Rancho Carboneras, which is 5 leguas from Fresnillo. Zacatecas, Mexico.
Hola buenas tardes
E estado averiguando el origen de los de Luna en los altos de Jalisco , de los cuales es Sebastián de Luna casado con Josefa Lozano , de la cual desciende la los de luna que vivieron en la meseta de los altos de jalisco por lo que e revisado esta pareja vivió en Jalpa hoy perteneciente al estado de Zacatecas, Y por lo que también e podido revisar este puede ser hijo de Luis De Luna y Josefa Ortiz de Esquivel, conocida como Ortiz de Haro o López también hija de Hernando (Fernando de Haro o Miramontes ) esta pareja casados el 18 de abril de 1649 en Tlaltenango de Sanchez Román en el estado de Zacatecas, otra pareja hijos de Francisco De Luna y Maria Tapia , hermano del citado Luis de Luna llamado Bartolomé De Luna Tapia caso con Lorenza Miramontes Haro hermana de la citada Josefa en el año 1658 en Tlaltenango de Sanchez Román en el estado de Zacatecas menciona que tienen un cuarto grado de consanguinidad y hay una dispensa matrimonial para poderse casar si alguien la
Hola,
Yo desciendo de esa linea tambien. Y tambien vi que deberia haber una dispensa de cuarto grado de consanguiniedad. Desgraciadamente ya llevo varios anios tratando de encontrarla sin exito.
Estare monitoriando esta pregunta para ver si alguien responde.
Saludos
Sus leniski
Por mi parte, también soy descendiente de los De Luna, concretamente de Jerez, donde el apellido está presente desde el siglo XVII y también lo encuentra uno con cierta frecuencia en los padrones de Zacatecas desde 1656 en adelante. Yo desciendo de Ana López de Luna casada con Juan de Casas.
De quien es hija Ana Lopez de Luna??
Ese matrimonio no lo tengo
saludos
sus leniski
si lo mas seguro es por el lado de los Bobedilla ya que en el padrón Francisco de Luna vivia con varias personas de ese apehido y como se usaba antes ponerles el apehido del los abuelos , y una hija de esta pareja primero aparece en documentos como de luna y después Bobedilla o Tapiaen el caso de su hija Isabel casada con Igancio Rubio de Loyola en 1649 en tlaltenango
En el padron de Tlaltenango de 1648 y 1649 Francisco de Luna vivia segun yo con familia de su esposa, Maria de Tapia, ahi vivian las hermanas de ella, que tambien eran viudas. Tambien vivian en la casa los hijos de las viudas.
La unica excepcion a esta regla es la presencia de MANUELA DE SANTA CRUZ, tambien la vi como madrina de bautizo en documentos de esta familia. Pero no tengo idea de quien puede ser esta Manuela. Definitivamente era familia. Me imagino que es por el lado de los Luna (solamente imaginacion)
sus leniski
Hello everyone. My name is Kimberly, I live in Colorado and I was born in America. I'm happy to be a part of this group. I enjoy history, so researching will be fun.
Welcome to NR Kimberly!
Tonalá, Jalisco and Tonalá, Chiapas once confused a would-be journalist guy I know. He was in Guadalajara on personal business and, while there, wanted to go to Tonalá to investigate the reports of Central American migrants riding the rails north to the border. Unfortunately for him, he was 1400 kms away at the other Tonalá. Since it looks like you mention the both Tonalás in your post, I would recommend you revisit your sources just to be sure.
Good luck!
Glenn
Thank you Glenn! Oh wow, poor guy. I will definitely go back and double check my sources. I wouldn’t want to be in the wrong Tonala, that would throw off my search.
Thanks again!
Kimberly
Hello,
José De los Santos Leon married María Anastacia García on the 7/April/1823 in Ayo el Chico, Jalisco
José De los Santos Leon (bap. 4/Nov/ 1804) is the son of José Marcelo León (Cos de Leon) and Ma. De la Encarnacion Mares.
Maria Anastacia Garcia is the daughter of José Facundo García and María Luisa Pérez ((Sallabedra)
A thorough research of the descendants of José De los Santos and Maria Anastacia may reveal that she also used the name Ma. Nepomucena
Maria Anastacia Garcia was baptized on 23/August/1807 in Jesus Maria, Jalisco Mexico, same place as José De los Santos.
José Marcelo de León s parents are José Gregorio Cos de León and Paula (Feliciana Pabla de la Santísima Trinidad) de La Paz.
Maria de la Encarnacion Mares’s parents are Francisco Ygnacio Mares and Maria Elena Escoto.
I hope this information helps you with your research,
Rick A. Ricci
Thank you, Ricci. I will look into them.
Your welcome Rafael. By coincidence this past week I was working on another line of Garcías and Leon from this same area. Let me know if this is your family and I will give you much information on their ancestrys
Thanks,
Rick A Ricci
After putting this line to rest for a little while, I came back and managed to breakthrough the brick wall.
I found the marriage records for the daughter, Gumercinda, who is from Silao, Guanajuato, and in those records the mother is referred to as Nepomucena Peres. The father, Santos Leon, was still alive at the time and attested to the marriage records. With this new information, I was then able to find Santos Leon and Juana Nepomucena Peres' marriage records, which then allowed me to go back one more generation.
I am not sure if anyone else has these individuals in their family trees, but I was hoping to share.
1. Jose Maria de Jesus Lozano + Gumercinda Leon
Engagement - 3 Jul 1866 (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/60013/images/004779844…)
Marriage - 1 Aug 1866 (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/60013/images/004025629…)
Gumercinda's baptismal record: 14 Jan 1843 Silao, Guanajuato
(https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/60013/images/004796507…)
2. Santos Leon + Juana Nepomucena Peres
Engagement - Jun 1836
(https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/60013/images/004804986…)
Marriage - 17 Jul 1836
(https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/60013/images/004026948…)
These records have the following as the couple's parents:
Encarnacion Leon + Catarina Lopez
Teodoro Peres + Nicolasa Castro
Hello,
Hi Susana,
Where was Monte Grande?? I found the padrones for Monte Grande, and I was wondering where it was. Lots of mining haciendas - was it near Zacatecas, Zac?
Here's the links for the padrones from the time period you're looking for:
1662 MONTE GRANDE
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9KJ-TQBQ?i=465&cat=23…
1669 MONTE GRANDE
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9KJ-TQY4?i=495&cat=23…
1689 MONTE GRANDE
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9KJ-TWHM?i=519&cat=23…
Thank you so much for the info about the Monte Grande.
Monte Grande is in Pinos Zacatecas. It is actually close to everything. Yes there were some mines in the area. If you have anyone in Pinos, definitely search in Monte Grande.
Thank you again
saludos
sus
Which body of records for Jalisco, Zacatecas, y Aguascalientes would one search for wills?
Joseph
Hola Joseph,
Testamentos in the Diocese of Guadalajara/ Nueva Galicia can be found here:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/130231?availability=Family%…
Some can also be found among the Protocolos of Nueva Galicia:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/198356?availability=Family%…
And:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/35680?availability=Family%2…
You can also find excepts and clausulas from some testamentos in the capellanias archives, though those are rare.
Good luck!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Manny,
I looked at the list of protocolos for Nueva Galicia. I have several questions:
1. Do you know if exist a list of "escribanos"?
2. Do you know if the escribanos were divided by region?
I want to see if it is possible to determine that this "escribano" was for this region or not.
I'm looking for wills from many areas in Aguascalientes and Zacatecas, then i'm looking for some orientation before "jumping in" the ocean of films.
Any info would be greatly appreciated
thanks
sus L
Hi sus L,
1. I’m sorry, I’m unaware of any such list. I suppose someone would have compiled one, but I haven’t seen it.
2. As for escribanos being divided by region, it seems like the large polities - like a city or “alcaldia mayor” or “real,” - were assigned their own “escribano real,” and I think that process went through the casa de la concentratacion in Sevilla, since I’ve seen appointments at the PARES/AGIS website (pares.mcu.es). You might want to look there.
As far as Aguascalientes, though there are some notarial records from early Aguascalientes that appear among those in Guadalajara (and which I’ve posted in another thread here at NR), almost everything in that jurisdiction can be found at the Aguascalientes Acervo Colonial Digital del Archivo Historico website. Unfortunately, I’m unable to open any of the documents at that website, because it only works with an Internet Explorer browser. I wish they’d update it!
Let me know if you find anything!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
This is from an old NR posting
http://sigue.aguascalientes.gob.mx/axweb/
See this posting for user name and password
Hi everyone,
Esther,
I think these are what you are looking for. They are for the year 1746.
1. Padrón general de toda esta jurisdicción de San Felipe
2. Padrón de la gente que se confiesa en la hacienda de San Pedro de Ibarra y son los siguientes...
Good luck!
Hello everyone, my name is Robert (Bobby) Lopez and I am currently researching the paternal side of my family on this website starting from my grand father and his father.
Here is the baptismal record of Juan Francisco Nepomuceno Rafael López : He was born on 26/Jan/1821 and baptized three days later on 29//Jan/1821. He passes away on 9/Nov/1898. His death is recorded the next day, 10/Nov/1898.
https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…
=====
Death record of Juan López (aka Juan Nepomuceno) (aka Nepomuceno ) ( aka Juan Francisco Nepomuceno Rafael López):
https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…
Rick A. Ricci
Welcome to nuestrosranchos Bobby,
Marriage record of Juan Francisco “Nepomuceno” López (aka Nepomuceno López) and Maria Guadalupe López:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9396-8895-ND?i=130&wc=3V3R-…
Jose Alejo López and Maria Antonia De la Cruz Yslas are the parents of Juan Nepomuceno López
Juan Francisco Nepomuceno López and Maria Guadalupe López are the parents of Jose de Los Santos López
Jose de Los Santos and Maria Ysabel Castro are the parents of Antonio Lopez
==============================================================================
Sixto Castro and María Cruz Renteria parents of Juan Castro
Guillerma Sánchez Rodríguez is the mother of Senobia Sánchez
(There is conflicting information identifying Guillerma Sánchez in the baptisms of her grandchildren. This information leads to the conclusion that Guillerma Sánchez Rodríguez is the same Guillerma Sánchez Rodríguez that is the daughter of Zenón Sánchez and Luisa Rodríguez. Guillerma had Senobia Sánchez out of wedlock. Guillerma Sánchez Rodríguez died at eighty years old on the ninth of August, 1905.
Here is Guillerma’s death record: [https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…] )
Zenón Sánchez is the son of Antonio Sánchez and Bonifacia Carillo.
Zenón Sánchez Carillo’s death record: https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…
Juan Castro and Cenobia (Senobia) Sánchez are the parents of Maria Ysabel Castro.
==============================================================================
Maria Guadalupe López is the daughter of Santiago López and Maria de la Luz Rivera. Santiago Lopez and Maria de la Luz Rivera are originally from Aguascalientes.
Happy Valentine’s Day,
Rick A. Ricci
Translation help!