Dr.mt

Rosalio Arellano abt. 1805 - Teul de Gonzales.

Published by XCruzGomez –
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Genealogy Research

I'm hope you can help me. This is a continuation to a previous post. I'm trying to find Rosario Arellano parents. Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.

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Published by XCruzGomez – Sun, 2016-04-17 15:53 | Permalink

Comment

3rd PARAGRAPH should read: Rosario Arellano (my 4x great grandfather) and Catalina Flores's son NARCISO Arellano, (my 3 times great grandfather) died in 3/23/1908 in Tequila, Jalisco, Mexico. Narciso Arellano's death certificate indicates hilo legitimo de Rosalio Arellano y Catalina Flores however other grandchildren have Norveta Flores as Paternal Grandmother.

Comment

Dear Xochil,

I wonder if Catalina and Norberta Flores are not the same person. Could Norberta Flores be a second wife that was much younger than her husband.

I would recommend looking at the records of the other grandchildren to look for small clues. Then check for a marriage dispensation just in case Norberta and Catalina are related and Norberta needed a marriage dispensa to get married to Rosalio. Remember to Look for a marriage record of Rosalio even after his sons presumed birthdate

Check out this information:

Norberta Flores is the daughter of Jose Zenon Flores and Geronima Castaneda

Zenon is the son of Jose Maria Flores and Francisca Miramontes)

Geronima Castaneda is the daughter of Bartolo Castaneda and Maria Paula Delgado

Norberta Flores
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records
Name Norberta Flores
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 07 Jun 1863
Event Place Tequila, Tequila, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Female
Father's Name Zenon Flores
Mother's Name Geronima Castaneda
CITING THIS RECORD

México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N8QP-XV3 : accessed 18 April 2016), Norberta Flores, 07 Jun 1863; citing Baptism, Tequila, Tequila, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 227,333.

Jose Zenon Flores Miramonts.
Mexico Baptisms
Name Jose Zenon Flores Miramonts.
Gender Male
Christening Date 03 Jul 1826
Christening Place TEPECHITLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name Jose Maria Flores
Mother's Name Ma. Franca. Miramonts.
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLC6-G4W : accessed 18 April 2016), Jose Zenon Flores Miramonts., 03 Jul 1826; citing TEPECHITLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 444,027.

Marty Puentes/NGGS/Retirement

Published by makas_nc –
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History, Culture and General Discussion

Here is a message I sent along to be posted either entirely or partially on
the NGGS facebook page (you all might want to start talking about the last
two sentences):

One day in 2002 while reco

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Sun, 2016-04-17 11:04 | Permalink

Comment

Joseph,
Thanks for starting NuestosRanchos and happy retirement !!
Victoriano Navarro

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Tue, 2016-04-12 18:25 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Joseph,
I appreciate very much all the work you have done for this site. Your work has contributed to many of the genealogy discoveries that I, and others, have made. You will be missed greatly.

Thanks again,

Rick A. Ricci

Descendants of Salvador Clemente De La Torre and Maria Alexandra De la Torre are descendants of Luis Lomellini

Published by Visitor (not verified) –
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Genealogy Research

I was looking at old post on sharing when i found a comment that I made about hitting a dead end with Salvador Clemente De la Torre and his wife Maria Alexandra De La Torre.

Comments

Published by ElCapitanPaco – Wed, 2014-02-05 22:33 | Permalink

Comment

Hi there Rick. I also have been looking into old posts to see what I have missed during my relative dormancy, and there’s some interesting stuff. Your mention of De la Torre caught my attention because I too have a De la Torre dead end that I have not been able to surpass for a really long time. I was going to post about it, but you beat me to it.

I descend from Joseph de la Torre and Isabel de Benavides, vecinos de Tepatitlán. Joseph de la Torre and Ma. Isabel de Benabides were married on Monday, 17 FEB 1710, in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México. Their marriage record literally reads as follows:

"Joseph de la Torre y Ysabel de Benabides, epañoles de esta feligrecia. ----- En el Pueblo de San Francisco de Thecpatitlán en Diez y siete Días de el mes de Febrero de mil setecientos y Diez años, casé por palabras de presente y velé in facie eclecie a Joseph de la Torre Español y a Ysabel de Benabides asi mismo Española Vecinos de esta feligrecia haviendo antes precedido sus declaraciones, información de su libertad y soltería y haverles amonestado inter missarum solemia tres Días festivos y no resultado impedimento ninguno, ni haverlo havido al tiempo de la celebración de el matrimonio fueron testigos, Juan de Mercado, Joseph Gutiérrez Español y otros más naturales que estuberion presentes; Padrinos, Andrés de la Torre y Doña Josepha del Castillo y Torre, y para que conste lo firmé . . . Juan de Portugal y Lozano (firma y rúbrica)."

Their marriage record is in Microfilm # 0218516, Marriages 1686-1735, Foja 48 vuelta. Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México. [I still have old citations from when I sourced them from Microfilms, but I have been methodically upgrading to the FamilySearch.org image citations]

As you can see the Acta does not mention the parents of Joseph and Isabel, and ever since I have been looking for a break-through. I have searched for a dispensa amongst their descendants to see if any of them needed marriage dispensations, but no luck. I suspect they were of course De la Torre-Ledesma and have recorded them as such. I have been looking for a connection to every family unit and marriage in his generation in the nearby Ranchos in Tepa, but to no avail; too many guesses…not enough answers.

¿Sabes algo sobre la ascendencia de Joseph de la Torre e Isabel de Benavides?

These are their descendants down to four generations:

1 Joseph de la Torre Ledesma Born: ca. 1688 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
.. +Isabel Benavides Born: ca. 1692 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Married: 17 Feb 1710 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
. 2 Joseph-Antonio de la Torre Ledesma Born: ca. 1720 in El Cerro Gordo, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
..... +Gertrudis de la Encarnación Pérez Born: ca. 1726 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Married: 8 Feb 1745 in San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Father: Lorenzo Pérez Mother: Luisa Valdez
. 2 Eugenio-Marcelino de la Torre Ledesma Born: ca. 1723 in San Nicolás del Ocote del Cerro Gordo, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
..... +María de los Dolores de Ornelas-Arévalo Born: ca. 1727 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Married: 15 Jun 1745 in San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
..... 3 Joseph-Gabriel de la Torre Born: ca. 1751 in San Nicolás del Ocote del Cerro Gordo, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
......... +Anna María Patiño Born: ca. 1757 in El Ojo de Agua de la Cruz, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Married: 10 Jan 1776 in San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Father: N. N., "Padre no conocido" Mother: Juana Gertrudis Patiño
........ 4 Marcelino de Jesús de la Torre Born: 4 Nov 1778 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
..... 3 María-Josepha del Carmen de la Torre Born: 16 Jul 1754 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México
..... 3 María-Petra de la Torre Born: 13 Jul 1756 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México
..... 3 María-Guadalupe de la Trinidad de la Torre Born: 11 Jun 1762 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México
..... 3 Joseph-Francisco de la Torre Born: 23 Jul 1765 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
......... +Maria-Francisca Ayala Born: ca. 1785 in Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Married: 27 Feb 1805 in Arandas, Jalisco, México Father: Juan Ayala Mother: Josepha Lopez
..... 3 Joseph-Clemente Brígido de la Torre Born: 5 Nov 1768 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
......... +María de los Dolores García Born: ca. 1771 in El Gallero, Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Married: 17 May 1789 in San Agustín, Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Father: Juan-Faustino García Mother: María-Apolinaria Ramírez
........ 4 José-Matías de la Torre Born: 13 Mar 1793 in Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México
........ 4 José-Luciano de la Torre Born: 8 Jun 1798 in Jesús María, Jalisco, México
............ +María-Manuela Jiménez Born: 17 Jun 1802 in El Llano Grande, Arandas, Jalisco, México Baptism: 21 Jun 1802 in Arandas, Jalisco, México Married: 16 Sep 1818 in Arandas, Jalisco, México Father: Blas-Nicolás Jiménez Mother: María de la Encarnación Morales
........ 4 María-Leonarda de la Torre Born: 17 Nov 1800 in Jesús María, Jalisco, México
........ 4 José-Alejo de la Torre Born: 24 Jul 1809 in Jesús María, Jalisco, México
........ 4 María-Isidora de la Torre Born: 21 Feb 1815 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
..... 3 María de San Joseph de la Torre Born: 13 Dec 1772 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
......... +Pedro Joseph García Born: ca. 1768 in Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Married: ca. 1790 in Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Father: Juan-Faustino García Mother: María-Apolinaria Ramírez
........ 4 María-Damacia García Born: 17 Feb 1792 in Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México
........ 4 María-Nicolasa García Born: 29 Sep 1796 in Jesús María, Jalisco, México
........ 4 María-Basilia García Born: 15 Apr 1801 in El Gallero, Jesús María, Jalisco, México Baptism: 21 Apr 1801 in Jesús María, Jalisco, México
........ 4 José-Guadalupe de la Luz García Born: 1 Jul 1808 in El Gallero, Jesús María, Jalisco, México Baptism: 12 Jul 1808 in Jesús María, Jalisco, México
. 2 Joseph-Nicolás de la Torre Born: ca. 1735 in La Tuna, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
..... +Anna-Gertrudis Gutiérrez Born: 27 Nov 1745 in El Puesto de Sinagua, Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México Baptism: 12 Dec 1745 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México Married: 15 Aug 1764 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Father: Pedro Gutiérrez de Híjar y Mendoza Mother: María-Magdalena Vásquez de Lara
..... 3 Juana María de la Torre Born: ca. 1765 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
......... +Juan-Joseph Patiño Born: ca. 1760 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México Married: Bef. Jul 1785 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México Mother: Juana-Gertrudis Patiño
........ 4 María-Francisca Patiño Born: 10 Apr 1786 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México
........ 4 María-Ignacia de Jesús Patiño Born: 29 May 1788 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México
........ 4 José-Miguel Sotelo Patiño Born: 17 Apr 1791 in El Sacamecate, Arandas, Jalisco, México Baptism: 2 May 1791 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
........ 4 José-Francisco Patiño Born: 8 Oct 1793 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México
........ 4 José-Francisco Patiño Born: 19 Jun 1799 in El Tule, Arandas, Jalisco, México Baptism: 30 Jun 1799 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
........ 4 José-Félix Patiño Born: 21 May 1804 in El Sacamecate, Arandas, Jalisco, México Baptism: 25 May 1804 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
........ 4 María-Justa Patiño Born: 16 Aug 1809 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
..... 3 María del Carmen de la Torre Born: 12 Jul 1766 in La Tuna, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Baptism: 3 Aug 1766 in Parroquia de San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
......... +Joseph-Francisco Gutiérrez Born: 9 Mar 1764 in Las Tortugas, Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Baptism: 25 Mar 1764 in Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Married: 25 Feb 1800 in San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco, México Father: Juan-Joseph Gutiérrez de Mendoza Mother: María de San Juan de Santos y Bustos
........ 4 María-Ignacia Gutiérrez Born: 22 Feb 1803 in El Nopal, Arandas, Jalisco, México Baptism: 26 Feb 1803 in Parroquia de Santa María de Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, México
............ +José-Rafael Salcido Born: 29 Apr 1796 in El Saltillo, Arandas, Jalisco, México Baptism: 15 May 1796 in Parroquia de Santa María de Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, México Married: 29 Jan 1818 in Parroquia de Santa María de Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, México Father: Joseph Guadalupe Salcido Mother: María-Gertrudis Hernández Gamiño
........ 4 José-Antonio Gutiérrez Born: ca. 1805 in El Portillo, Arandas, Jalisco, México
............ +María de San Juan Orozco Born: ca. 1802 in El Terrero, Arandas, Jalisco, México Married: 12 Mar 1823 in Arandas, Jalisco, México Father: Joseph-María Tello de Orozco Mother: Angela Rafaela Remigia López
........ 4 José-Victor Gutiérrez Born: 21 Jun 1807 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
........ 4 María-Luisa Gutiérrez Born: 26 May 1809 in El Ocote, Arandas, Jalisco, México
............ +José-María Hernández Born: ca. 1807 in Los Chicos, Arandas, Jalisco, México Married: 15 Nov 1830 in Arandas, Jalisco, México Father: Juan de Dios Nepomuceno Hernández Mother: María-Francisca Navarro
........ 4 María-Rafaela Gutiérrez Born: ca. 1811 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
............ +José-Félix Hernández Montes Born: ca. 1807 in Arandas, Jalisco, México Married: 27 May 1830 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
........ 4 María de San Juan Gutiérrez Born: 4 Apr 1814 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
........ 4 María-Luz Gutiérrez Born: ca. 1816 in El Portillo, Arandas, Jalisco, México
............ +José-Tomás Hernández Cervantes Born: ca. 1814 in La Hermita, Arandas, Jalisco, México Married: 20 Jan 1831 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
..... 3 María-Magdalena de la Torre Born: 30 Jul 1768 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
..... 3 Joseph-Antonio de la Torre Born: 24 Dec 1770 in Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México
......... +María-Vicenta de Jesús Lomelín Born: 6 Jan 1780 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México Married: Bef. Oct 1797 in Arandas, Jalisco, México Father: Luis Antonio de Lomelín Mother: María-Magdalena Gutiérrez
........ 4 José-Alejo de la Torre Born: 20 Jul 1798 in El Buche, Arandas, Jalisco, México Baptism: 29 Jul 1798 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
........ 4 María-Epitacia de la Torre Born: 26 Dec 1802 in San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco, México
........ 4 José de la Encarnación de la Torre Born: 1 Apr 1805 in San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco, México
........ 4 José-Luis de la Torre Born: 20 Jun 1807 in San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco, México
............ +María-Ventura de Jesús Ruiz Born: 20 Jul 1806 in Arandas, Jalisco, México Married: 8 May 1826 in Arandas, Jalisco, México Father: José-Marcelo Ruiz de Velasco Mother: María-Magdalena Alvarez
........ 4 José-Bernardo de la Trinidad de la Torre Born: 6 Sep 1812 in Arandas, Jalisco, México
..... 3 Joseph-Manuel de la Torre Born: 2 Jun 1773 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México
..... 3 Joseph-Encarnación de la Torre Born: 6 Apr 1778 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México
..... 3 Joseph-Norberto Encarnación de la Torre Born: 25 Jun 1780 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México

I descend from Joseph and Isabel through their son Joseph-Nicolas de la Torre, and his wife Anna-Gertrudis Gutiérrez, through their daughter María del Carmen de la Torre, on my mother’s side.

Oh, and by the way could you PLEASE!!! Post the link for the dispensa you mention above, must be from Aguascalientes where they got married. I have a feeling the Luis de Lomelín & María del Olmo connection from Querétaro you are talking about that connects to the marriage dispensation of Salvador Clemente De la Torre and his wife María Alexandra De La Torre, is through María Alejandra de la Torre’s great-grandmother Regina de Villaseñor y Cuevas, married to Miguel de Hermosillo, isn’t it? ¿Verdad? What more do you know about Francisco de Villaseñor y Cuevas and his wife María de Lomelín, parents of Regina. My sources indicate they were “Vecinos de La Barca”. I bet you have delved deeper into their origins in the Obispado de Michoacán…¡Me imagino qué sí!

Bueno...hasta pronto

Tu primo,
Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Encontré esta partida de Bautismo de Francisca Villasenor Cuebas espero les sea de utilidad . tal ves ? tenga relación con su homónimo padre: Diego De Villasenor
madre: Gertrudes De Cuebas
Nombre Francisca Villasenor Cuebas
Sexo Female
Fecha de bautismo 18 Aug 1661
Lugar de bautismo SAN FRANCISCO,ANGAMACUTIRO DE LA UNION,MICHOACAN,MEXICO Número de lote o batch C60424-1
Sistema de origen Mexico-ODM
Número de microfilm de FamilySearch 608775

Comment

Carlos Peredo

Don Diego de Villaseñor casó el 1-jul-1637 en Morelia con Gertrudis de Cuevas Carbajal Samaniego según lo relata el padre Ibarrola en "familias y Casas de la Vieja Valladolid".

De esa pareja he localizado dos hijos :

Juana Villaseñor y Cuevas que casó en 1672 en Puruándiro con Nicolás de Ochoa Garibay (Ibarrola)

Francisca Villaseñor y Cuevas bautizada 18-ago-1661 en Angamacutiro, Mich. (LDS)

y muy probablemente Francisco de Villaseñor Cuevas el que casó con una María de Lomelín ya que ellos bautizan a José Cuevas Lomelín el 8-dic-1679 en Jocotepec,Jalisco. Este Francisco calculo yo que nació por 1640 y casó por 1665

Hubo otro Francisco de Cuevas que casó con otra María Lomelín, este fue Francisco de Cuevas Carbajal y su esposa fué María Villaseñor Lomelín bautizada el 3-may-1663 en Tocuitatlán, Jal.

Carlos

Comment

Oh muchas gracias por los aportes a las familias Villaseñor, Cueva(s) y Lomelín. Con tus datos ya corregí lo que tenía. Me puse a leer las cartas de Jaime Holcombe y noté que él mismo también los mencionó.

Me queda obvio que me necesito conseguir mi copia propia del libro del Padre Ibarrola.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Published by mendezdetorres – Thu, 2014-02-06 23:15 | Permalink

Comment

Steven,
Ese libro es una pérola en nuestros estudios michoacanos y jalicienes ya que la família Villaseñor se desenvolvió tanto en tal manera que su posteridad cubran una grande extensión de territorio. Lo he buscado por tres años y nada. Hasta recientemente he localizado dos posibilidades de encontrarlo uno en Morelia y otro en San Francisco, CA vamos ver lo que encontramos. Te deseo éxito en sus investigaciones y estoy muy feliz en tenerte por aquí de nuevo.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Published by mendezdetorres – Thu, 2014-02-06 23:15 | Permalink

Comment

Cualquier genealogista estudioso que se dice experto lo necesita en su biblioteca, me dejas saber si lo localizas en un lugar u otro.
Daniel

Published by ElCapitanPaco – Fri, 2014-02-07 01:25 | Permalink

Comment

Tengo varios capítulos del "Familias y Casas de la Vieja Valladolid" que me proporcionó el señor Tony Campos, el real experto del Obispado de Michoacán. El tiene una copia la que yo podía consultar con frecuencia, y nomás por decidia le saque algunas copias, porque como está tan cerca se me hacía a la mano y de fácil acceso. Pero ya que me mudé de casa pues ya no es de tan fácil acceso. Me despegué de la genealogía por un tiempo por razones personales, pero estoy volviendo a poner toda mis cosas genealogicas en orden de nuevo, pero tengo mis cosas dispersadas y guardadas en cajas y no recuerdo exactamente donde quedaron. Mis libros publicados los tengo a la vista pero los que son copias de libros son los que no ubico por extraviados.

Para los que se encuentran en una circumstancia parecida y deseen localizar una copia del libro "Familias y casas de la vieja Valladolid" por Gabriel Ibarrola Arriaga y sacarle copia al libro entero ya que solo es de referencia y no se encuentra de venta por agotada la publicación. Las bibliotecas más cercanas donde tienen el libro en el Sur de California son Cal State Fullerton, también UC Irvine, y USC. Vean http://www.worldcat.org/title/familias-y-casas-de-la-vieja-valladolid/o…
para más información. Siempre es bueno tener más información ya que en la genealogia como en todo, no debemos juzgar antes de tener todas las piezas del rompecabezas. Cosas pasan por razones que a veces totalmente ignoramos, y pues pasan.

Yo iré pronto a Fullerton para sacarle copia al libro.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

I am also very interested in getting a hold of this book or copies of this book. A few years ago I went looking for a book that I especially was interested in at ucla. Unfortunately the information from the worldcat catalog was not enough for for the librarians to find the book. I was totally disappointed. I thought that once you had the reference number it would be a piece of cake to find in the library. Since it was in a very rare book section I was not allowed to actually look for it myself. They never found the book. Good luck finding this book. Please let me know what you find.
R A Ricci

Comment

Well I know that my dear old friend Tony Campos has an intact copy of the entire book.

The Worldcat catalog mentioned CSU Fullerton, UC Irvine, USC and a few others. I remember now, Tony Campos got his copy from Fullerton.

Fullerton is between his home and the Orange FHC where he did most of his research into the Obispado de Michoacan. He lives in Diamond Bar and would give a good excuse to pay him a visit.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Steven,
Thank your for your prompt response. I may ask you to make a copy of that book if my searches fail. I have contacted Morelia, Mexico City, Guanajuato, Guadalajara and some institutions in Madrid and nothing. I know the 1st edition is out of print, but recently they have reprinted into a modern edition in Morelia. I have one more bookstore I can email and see if they know anything. I was told they can also be purchased from a bookstore in San Francisco. I am growing inpatient as a genealogist, because I need it. I feel limited as to research without this book. I like you come from many of the principal families of the Bishopric of Michoacán. Méndez de Torres, Gutiérrez de Robles, Villaseñor, Martínez de Navarrete, Núñez de Sotomayor, Alvarez del Castillo are the least to mention. I could pay a service fee if you would like so you can get me a copy of the book when you go to Fullerton, if it not be any trouble.
When you go to Tony Campo's house, ask him if he has any additional information on the Méndez de Torres. I have only recently discovered through Mariano González Leal that the first or second gobernador de Michoacán after the independence was my relative Telésforo Méndez de Torres. I have also been in communication with Lic. Alejandro Mayagoitia in Mexico City who is getting me ready a certified copy of the probanzas de admitiación that my ancestors did for their admittance at the Real e Ilustre Colegio de Abogados de San Lorenzo in Mexico City in the beginning of the XIX century. I have been busy... :) Also, do you know if you have an extra copy of the Genealogical Journal, by SHHAR, vol I. It includes the Zamora Marriages from 1605-1622, 1638-1646 by Tony Campos and Ophelia Márquez. They also wrote about the Robledo family from Zamora and their connection in New Mexico. I have cousins from México City who including myself are extracting all the Spanish and Mestizos in the Zamora archives and hope to publish it in the near future. It will be a gold mine of information!
Un fuerte abrazo,Daniel

Comment

Carlos Peredo

Hola a todos !

Tuve la suerte de adquirir el libro del Padre Ibarrola hace unos dos años y medio y no me decepcionó ya que yo había visto los extractos que aparecen en google books y se veía que contenía información sobre muchos apellidos, particularmente (además de mi apellido ) aparecía en las vistas previas el nombre del abuelo de unos grandes amigos míos de Morelia y deseaba yo investigar su genealogía. Efectivamente, al comprar el libro pude ver buena parte de los ascendientes de mis amigos que resultaron ser de los LLanos-Valdés y de los Ruíz de Contreras.

Respecto de los Méndez de Torres siento decepcionarte Daniel, pero no se encuentran en el libro, hay sí varios Méndez así a secas, otros Médez de Castro, Méndez de Orozco y Méndez Pérez-Gil. Realmente me sorprende que no aparezca información sobre los Méndez zamoranos ya que fue y sigue siendo uno de los apellidos más ilustres de esa ciudad.

Solo por mencionar a uno de sus conspicuos exponentes, a mediados del pasado siglo descolló el gran empresario zamorano Alfonso Méndez Ramírez el cual fue suegro de una amiga de mi esposa que lleva el apellido Sahagún , otro de los destacados apellidos zamoranos.

Yo llevo sangre Méndez ya que mi abuela paterna era Concepción García Méndez hija de Dortea Méndez pero ella era de La Piedad, Mich. y no he podido avanzar en esa línea.

Saludos

Carlos A. Peredo

Comment

Thanks Steven.  I was able to borrow a copy from CSU East Bay which helped greatly with my Arias Maldonado ancestor.

Irma

----- Original Message -----

From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 9:31:21 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familias y Casas de la Vieja Valladolid

Well I know that my dear old friend Tony Campos has an intact copy of the entire book.  

The Worldcat catalog mentioned CSU Fullerton, UC Irvine, USC and a few others.  I remember now, Tony Campos got his copy from Fullerton.  

Fullerton is between his home and the Orange FHC where he did most of his research into the Obispado de Michoacan. He lives in Diamond Bar and would give a good excuse to pay him a visit.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Thanks Steven.  I was able to borrow a copy from CSU East Bay which helped greatly with my Arias Maldonado ancestor.

Irma

----- Original Message -----

From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 9:31:21 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familias y Casas de la Vieja Valladolid

Well I know that my dear old friend Tony Campos has an intact copy of the entire book.  

The Worldcat catalog mentioned CSU Fullerton, UC Irvine, USC and a few others.  I remember now, Tony Campos got his copy from Fullerton.  

Fullerton is between his home and the Orange FHC where he did most of his research into the Obispado de Michoacan. He lives in Diamond Bar and would give a good excuse to pay him a visit.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Dear Carlos,

You wrote:
Villaseñor Cuevas de Michoacan
Submitted by Peredo on Thu, 2014-02-06 15:14.
Carlos Peredo

Don Diego de Villaseñor casó el 1-jul-1637 en Morelia con Gertrudis de Cuevas Carbajal Samaniego según lo relata el padre Ibarrola en "familias y Casas de la Vieja Valladolid".

De esa pareja he localizado dos hijos :

Juana Villaseñor y Cuevas que casó en 1672 en Puruándiro con Nicolás de Ochoa Garibay (Ibarrola)

Francisca Villaseñor y Cuevas bautizada 18-ago-1661 en Angamacutiro, Mich. (LDS)

y muy probablemente Francisco de Villaseñor Cuevas el que casó con una María de Lomelín ya que ellos bautizan a José Cuevas Lomelín el 8-dic-1679 en Jocotepec,Jalisco. Este Francisco calculo yo que nació por 1640 y casó por 1665

Hubo otro Francisco de Cuevas que casó con otra María Lomelín, este fue Francisco de Cuevas Carbajal y su esposa fué María Villaseñor Lomelín bautizada el 3-may-1663 en Tocuitatlán, Jal.

Carlos

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It should read Nicolas Ochoa Garibay (Ibarlucea) The Ochoa family surname started out as Otxoa Ybarlucea (Ochoa Ibarlucea in Spanish). The family was Basque. They were from Elorrio.
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Hello Steve,
You are right again, it is through my descendancy through Regina Villasenor y Cuevas. Though the marriage was in Aguascalientes, the marriage dispensation is in Guadalajara. When I found it, I would go back to it often because I was so thrilled to see what I had been looking many, many years. The diagram was a great find because it showed how they descended from two half siblings, from 2 different marriages, same father. The diagram is image 466 (1787 FHL source film 168072 Mexico)(Marriage dispensations Guadalajara)

Regina was married on 2feb 1689, La Barca Jalisco to Miguel Gonzalez de Hermosillo.

Diego Villasenor + Gertrudis de Cuevas
Francisco Villasenor (c. 1640 m1662) Maria Lomelin (1644)
Regina Villasenor Cuevas Lomelin (m2Feb1689) + Miguel Gonzalez de Hermosillo
I believe that francisco Villasenor and Maria Lomelin are related through the Villasenor Orosco and that she is the granddaughter of Luis LOMELI AND Maria de olmos. I am still gathering information to support this.

The source for Francisco's parents is not written down in my notes so I am very concerned with about where this information comes from. When I first started doing research I did not always document the source of my information. I learned my lesson and have been trying to reinvestigate much of my info to add sources. It was a big surprise to me to find out that this is a line that I need to reinvestigate.
I believe that the source is most likely Jaime Holcombe but I am not sure.
On Miguel hidalgos ancestry I did write all the sources down because there were so many already done that had little mistakes and I wanted to show evidence for every step. It wasn't until later that I realized that I need to do this for every bit of info.
Your de la torre line is living in the same location that Salvador Clemente de la torre and Maria Alejandra de la torre. He is most likely related to them. A grandfather of mine was born in Cerro Gordo, Tepatitlan .
The Patino were also related to this line. Juan de Villasenor married to Maria Patino.
R A Ricci

Comment

Hello Steve,
One thing to remember when searching for information about people in the Los altos de Jalisco in 1600 and 1700 s is that many of them practiced a tradition started with some Italian Jews of naming their children with their grandparents names, including surnames. Look for Isabel with a different last name. Check out their descendents for any clues as to a possible last name. You already know about this but we sometimes need reminders.
A couple of years ago I was reminded by Daniel Mendez that the h and f were interchangeable in these centuries. Even though I already knew this information, I had overlooked some key data because I did not keep this on my mind at times when working on a couple Of lines. I immediately went back over my info and found an important baptismal certificate. I then was also able to solve another puzzle that I had been working on for a long time.

The practice of naming children after grandparents and great grandparents was found in certain jewish families in Italy and parts of Spain. Not all Jews practiced this though. Some jewish groups thought it was disrespectful to name a child after their grandparent if the grandparent was still alive. In Italian papers I saw the order of how they were supposed to name their kids according to their order of birth. If a child died in infancy it threw the order off as some people named the next child after the one that died. Or if both grandmothers had the same name then it caused more confusion. This practice did not last long, and only in certain families.
Rick A Ricci

Comment

Joseph and Ysabel are my 6th great grandparents on my maternal line.

Nicholas de la Torre, married to Ana Gertrudis Gutierrez de Hermosillo are my 5th great grandparents.

Also, I just requested the book, Familias y Casas de Vallalodid, from our storage facility at USC. I will probably have my hands on it tomorrow morning. If so, I'll let you all know. The copyright is 1969, however, so don't know about making a complete copy of the book.

Anyways, I just wanted to begin a conversation with new found "Primos."

Eduardo Tinoco

Comment

Mucho gusto conocerte,

Well it seems we descend not only from Joseph de la Torre and Isabel Benavides, but also from their son Nicolas, and his wife Anna-Gertrudis Gutierrez de Hijar y Mendoza Hermosillo. In fact I descend from the Gutierrez line twice.

Despues platicamos...

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Dear Steve,

Even though Jose De la torre and Isabel Benavides are named as vecinos de Tepatitlan, I wouldn't be surprised if they were were born in Teocaltiche or Nochistlan Zacatecas as that is when many families migrated from that area to los altos de Jalisco. I have ancestors from those locations that moved to tepa and Jalos. The ones that went to Jalos were easier to trace back to Teocaltiche and Nochistlan because they added more information in their records. The ones that went to tepa were harder as sometimes they were more inconsistent as to providing this info. Since tepa and Jalisco weren't so far apart you could sometimes find the information recorded twice in both locations, with the Jalos record providing extra data. For example, my maternal grandfather came from families from the Jalos /San Miguel el alto area but he was born between Tepa and Jalos, much closer to Tepa, and the ranch was recognized as being under tepatitlan jurisdiction. His baptismal record is found inTepas records. But his baptism is also recorded for a second time in Jalostotitlan. This record provides a little bit more information and is beautifully handwritten so it is not a struggle to read the words.

The records you are looking for may be in Jalos, Teocaltiche or Nochistlan, Zacatecas as there is a presence of the de la torre Ledesma and Benavides in these areas.

The De la Torre Ledesma line leads back to Spain where two brothers are caught in mortal combat. We have already proven descent from one of these brothers. The "right hand" of the other brother that we do not descend from is the ancestor of the De la torre Ledesma. The "right hand" of the brother that we do descend from is the brother of an ancestor of ours. The story of where they all come together to meet and fight and what happens afterwards is a big story. The importance of the "right hand" men in the story and how it leads to a change in the family surname in order for one of the men's descendants to distance himself from his ancestors politics. The change in surname did what it was supposed to do and allowed these descendants to continue living in the same area and Move to the winning side, unlike their ancestor who was forced to flee to Portugal. We descend from the line with the changed surname.

Many people posted genealogies of his descent but they are missing generations and have mistakes as to the wives. The mistakes in the wives are understandable as these genealogists had most likely family tree listing the mothers with missing generations and family trees of the fathers missing generations,( missing different generations) so when they put it together the wives and husbands were put together in a wrong order. Sometimes the confusion came from someone having two wives and a mistaken genealogist considered one of the wives the wife of a similar named son. These family trees all skip a very important generation.this generation is important but is usually left out because people had assumed a direct son to son hand me down of the surname but in reality the surname skips a generation and comes from a maternal side. It goes son to son to daughter, to son. I have documentation from a second source that confirms this added generation. The daughter actually uses a different surname but her father and son do share the same family surname. This added generation also is important because it leads to Irish ancestors. I had previously not found any confirmed Irish ancestors. Now we can toast to some Irish ancestors on St Patrick's day.
.
This added generation also explains the story attached to his family as to being a descendant of a certain office. Not every person that has an office becomes so attached to the office that it seems to become part of the surname. Titles of nobility often become part of the "name" but titles referring to an office are not always attached as if it were part of the name.

This line also connects our ancestors to a legend that has a basis of truth that comes from the struggle for rights in England. That is a Story left for another time.

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Wed, 2015-12-09 01:34 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Steve,

Did you ever find the parents of Joseph de la Torre Ledesma and Isabel de Benavides? I have put aside all my other genealogy work for a few weeks and have only been working on the de la Torre Ledesma lines. The de la Torre Ledesma has become a big chapter in my book since it now connects to other ancestors of founding families in Spain. This coming Christmas vacation I hope to spend time in a few far off libraries gathering more information on the de la Torre Ledesma lines. My paternal grandmother is De La Torre.

Rick A.Ricci

Diego Reynoso family branches

Published by Lee1 Ingram –
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Genealogy Research

Included below are some links to marriage dispensations and associated family trees recently found that will benefit several Reynoso families that are from Moyahua/Juchipila parishes.

Comments

Published by Lee1 Ingram – Fri, 2016-04-15 20:12 | Permalink

Comment

Have a website that includes some of the older Reynoso y Renteria families from Moyahua and Juchipila parishes, and also some Reynoso families from Jalostotitlan, Mezquital, and Cuquio.

It is not inclusive of all Reynoso families, and it is still very early for research of these Reynoso y Renteria families. Link included below. My wife or I are not known to be directly related to these families, but when researching my spouse Lozano and Renteria families, found many of these Reynoso records; and decided to share, hopefully helping others.

http://www.clingram.com/famhis1/index.php

Published by Lee1 Ingram – Fri, 2016-04-15 19:57 | Permalink

Comment

Diego Reynoso and Maria Plasencia listed as grand-parents of Andrea de Luna,
who was the daughter of Jose Maria de Jesus de Luna and Gertrudis Reynoso.
Believe this is same Diego Reynoso, son of Christoval Reynoso and Ana
Maria Gonsales de Rubalcaba.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11537-59591-11?cc=1804458
Mexico, Zacatecas, Catholic Church Records, Moyahua
Santiago Apóstol Bautismos 1814-1825, (1817), image 18 of 386.

Record is difficult to read, and located bottom right of image 18.

Diego Reynoso and Maria Plasencia listed as grand-parents of Maria Andrea Luna, born in Contitlan, Zacatecas (near Juchipila), Mexico.

Published by Lee1 Ingram – Fri, 2016-04-15 19:40 | Permalink

Comment

Note: Believe this Diego Reynoso to be the son of Christoval Reynoso (born circa 1725)
in part based on age, and siblings likely to include Alejo, Francisca, Teresa, Gertrudis, Francisco and Ygnacio. All of these stated to be children of Diego Reynoso.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-105857-17?cc=1874591
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, Guadalajara Diócesis de Guadalajara
Matrimonios 1866, parte 2, 283-286 of 1327(tree on image 284)
Marriage dispensation of Romualdo Luna and Anacleta Aro
Romauldo de Luna listed his parents as Antonio de Luna (deceased) and Longina Banuelos, originally from Ranchos de Remolino, born circa 1840.
Maria Anacleta de Aro listed her parents as Paulino de Aro and Catarino Ocampo, originally from Ranchos de Remolino, born circa 1851.
Bride/Groom distantly related to Diego Reynoso, as follows:
Diego Reynoso was the father of Teresa Reynoso, who was the mother of Antonio Luna, who was
the father of Romauldo de Luna (groom).
Diego Reynoso was also the father of Maria Francisca Reynoso, who was the mother of Felipa Carrillo, who was the mother of Paulino de Aro, who was the mother of Anacleta de Aro (bride)

Published by Lee1 Ingram – Fri, 2016-04-15 19:37 | Permalink

Comment

Note: Believe this Diego Reynoso to be the son of Christoval Reynoso (born circa 1725)
in part based on age, and siblings likely to include Alejo, Francisca, Teresa, Gertrudis, Francisco and Ygnacio. All of these stated to be children of Diego Reynoso.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18432-19537-13?cc=1874591
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, Guadalajara Diócesis de Guadalajara
Matrimonios 1841, parte 2, images 951-958 of 1251 (tree on image 955)
Marriage dispensation of Pedro Flores and Pascuala Marin
Key info:
Pedro Flores listed his parents as Candido Flores and Macedonia de Aro, originally
from Contitlan, and 20 years of age (born circa 1821)
Pascuala Marin listed her parents as Gabriel Marin and Petra Reynoso, originally from
Contitlan, 29 years old (born circa 1812), and previously married to Jose Agaton
Lupercio, who had died 5 years prior, buried in Juchipila parish.
Pedro Flores (groom) and Pascuala Marin (bride) were commonly related through
Diego Reynoso, and two of his sons, Alejo Reynoso and Ygnacio Reynoso as
follows:
Diego Reynoso was the father of Alejo Reynoso, who was the father of Gertrudis
Reynoso, who was the mother of Candido Reynoso, who was the mother of
Pedro Flores (groom)
Diego Reynoso was also the father of Ygnacio Reynoso, who was the father of
Petra Reynoso, who was the mother of Pascuala Marin (bride)
Other info listed within dispensation:
Pedro stated Jose Maria Flores to be his abuelo paterno (paternal grandfather)
Pedro stated Manuel de Aro to be his vis-abuelo materno (maternal great grandfather)
Pedro stated Alejo Reynoso to be his vis-abuelo paterno (paternal great grandfather)
Pedro stated Antonio de Luna to be his vis-abuelo materno (maternal great grandfather)

Alejandro was consistently listed as the husband of Carmen de Luna in Moyahua
records, except for one entry where he was was listed as the husband of Xaviera
Plasencia. Believe this Xaviera Plasencia was actually the mother of Alejandro,
and cleric was in error. No evidence of a second marriage for Alejandro, as
he listed his wife as Carmen de Luna on death record.

Published by Lee1 Ingram – Fri, 2016-04-15 19:27 | Permalink

Comment

Note: Believe this Diego Reynoso to be the son of Christoval Reynoso (born circa 1725)
in part based on age, and siblings likely to include Alejo, Francisca, Teresa, Gertrudis, and Ygnacio. All of these children stated to be children of Diego Reynoso.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-105857-17?cc=1874591
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, Guadalajara Diócesis de Guadalajara
Matrimonios 1866, parte 2, 283-286 of 1327(tree on image 284)
Marriage dispensation of Romualdo Luna and Anacleta Aro
Romauldo de Luna listed his parents as Antonio de Luna (deceased) and Longina Banuelos, originally from Ranchos de Remolino, born circa 1840.
Maria Anacleta de Aro listed her parents as Paulino de Aro and Catarino Ocampo, originally from Ranchos de Remolino, born circa 1851.
Bride/Groom distantly related to Diego Reynoso, as follows:
Diego Reynoso was the father of Teresa Reynoso, who was the mother of Antonio Luna, who was
the father of Romauldo de Luna (groom).
Diego Reynoso was also the father of Maria Reynoso, who was the mother of Felipa Carrillo, who was the mother of Paulino de Aro, who was the mother of Anacleta de Aro (bride)

Testament of Juan Montañez

Published by Nandin –
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Thank you, Danny, Manny, Paige, Chris and Armando for introducing me to Dropbox. I’ve created a folder "Juan Montañez Testament" and scanned my 2003 transcription of his 1648 testament.

Comments

Published by dcalonso – Tue, 2016-02-09 11:42 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you Mary Lou. This is great. I love knowing about the lives of our ancestors. thank you for taking the time to upload this for us.

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Maria Lou,

In case you don't already have this, here is the carta de dote of Diego Martin Saldana, giving an account of what he received from Maria de Ruelas, at the time he married Teresa de Sotomayor. It includes an inventory. It's dated 19 Sep 1661 - years after the marriage, he says he didn't have a chance to do it, at the time he married, since he was always out in the fields.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-HMML?i=53&wc=MXBY-RPL

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Thanks, Manny. It was fun to read that carta de dote. I don't remember seeing it when I was in the archives ages ago. The old archives where I would sit by a window for better light. Looks like you are heavily into SLP research. Please contact me at nandin@att.net.

Mary Lou

Jesus Maria, Nayarit

Published by apozolco –
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Genealogy Research

If anyone is looking for the 1904 death certificates for Jesus Maria, Municipio del Nayar, Nayarit, you can find them under La Yesca civil registration (1889-1911). Pages 1500-1512.

Marty Puentes/NGGS/Retiring

Published by makas_nc –
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Genealogy Research

Here is a message I sent along to be posted either entirely or partially on the NGGS facebook page (you all might want to start talking about the last two sentences):

Comments

Published by bbbunny – Wed, 2016-04-13 18:19 | Permalink

Comment

Joseph,

You created something amazing and have left an indelible mark on the world with Nuestros Ranchos. Thank you for all you have given to this project and, ultimately, all of us.

Please let us know how we can continue your work and make you proud of the legacy we inherit. Most of us are not techies, but we are all familiar with hard work (genealogy is not for the feint of heart!). Will someone be stepping up to the plate behind you? Or do we need to find someone now?

Let's not let this wonderful resource end!

Annette Avila Nunez

Comment

Hi Joseph,

I agree. I've been a little more busy since I started college, but, anything I can do to help, I will. I don't want to see the site go away.

Chris

Marty Puentes/NGGS/Retiring

Published by makas_nc –
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Announcements and Events

Here is a message I sent along to be posted either entirely or partially on the NGGS facebook page (you all might want to start talking about the last two sentences):

Marty Puentes/NGGS/Retirement

Published by makas_nc –
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Announcements and Events

Here is a message I sent along to be posted either entirely or partially on
the NGGS facebook page (you all might want to start talking about the last
two sentences):

One day in 2002 while reco

Jose Zambrano Film

Published by makas_nc –
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History, Culture and General Discussion

From: JOSE L. Zambrano [mailto:itzcoatzin@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 6:50 PM
To: Joseph Puentes
Subject: Hello

Joseph Puentes:

I am hoping you could help me out.

Comments

Published by FamiliasJalos – Tue, 2016-04-12 07:31 | Permalink

Comment

I'll post this to our Facebook group.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Puentes"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, "Ciudad Juarez"
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 5:53:32 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jose Zambrano Film

From: JOSE L. Zambrano [mailto:itzcoatzin@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 6:50 PM
To: Joseph Puentes
Subject: Hello

Joseph Puentes:

I am hoping you could help me out. I am making a video about the Zambrano surname origin, and it will have sources for all the Spanish surnames. I was hoping you could share this witht eh group.

I need to fund 500usd to make the video people can pre order the video for 10 usd.

her eis a sample of a finished work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNtMwrjB0nc &index=1&list=PLCnUdeI0HmLNzdhsEweT8viFaL0itQV9w

I will publish in your tube on a private channel accessible only to them and will send them a hd dvd wiht the product.

I will do this very trasperant and will show the pay pal trassaction. Th evideo will be made in 3 wroking days since i have done the reasearch for 10 years now.

Thanks you in advance for both positive and negative responce.

THe main surname sin my work ar Zambrano mendoza, lopez to name a few.

Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".

In The News

Published by makas_nc –
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http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/history/article71081497.html

joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

Comments

Published by FamiliasJalos – Mon, 2016-04-11 15:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Joseph! Thank you for sharing Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society (NGGS) story from the Sacramento Bee with our Nuestros Ranchos familia!
How have you been? Jaime and I are doing well and enjoy researching our ancestors as time permits. I continue to volunteer as the FaceBook Administrator for NGGS and Jaime was just elected as the Vice President. Between family, friends and ancestry we continue to be blessed and hope the same is for you:) Please let me know if I can ever assist you in any way.
Thanks again for all you do!
Rosa

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Puentes"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:47:46 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] In The News

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/history/article71081497.html

joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

Research Digest, Vol 123, Issue 5

Published by Jatorre1960 –
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Genealogy Research

No hay ninguna informacion sobre el bautizo de Pedro de Ledezma en Zamora España por que las partidas de bautizo no fueron documentadas hasty despues de el Tratado de Trento a mediados del siglo XVl.

Proof that the parents of Melchora de los Reyes (m. Luis Delgadillo) are Rodrigo de Caravajal and Melchora de los Reyes

Published by 245luigi –
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To my knowledge, up to this point I have not seen and evidence that the parents of Melchora de los Reyes(m. Luis Delgadillo) are Rodrigo de Caravajal and Melchora de los Reyes.

Comments

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2016-04-09 20:50 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Alex,

You did wonderful work.

Thank you very much for sharing this information,

Rick A Ricci

Comment

I have the book in my library. I will send you a copy of chapter 79.

I have gone much further on a couple of lines. There is too much to post here. I will let you know when my book is published.
Thanks again,
R.A. Ricci

Morisca-Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar

Published by chilerey54 –
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Genealogy Research

Hola Miembros , I was cruising through Baptismal Records in Jalostotitlan - 1698-1701 ,1701-1707,1694-1702 Image # 225 .

Comments

Published by dgmiv – Sat, 2016-04-09 06:22 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Ronnie - I don't have anything to offer on the morisca issue. But, interestingly, I was just working yesterday on Francisca Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar who was married to Ysidro Villalobos. They had children in Aguascalientes between 1683 and 1694, so this is definitely not your Gertrudis. But since we are talking about the Escoto y Tovar family, does anyone have any information about Francisca Gertrudis? I can't find any records about her at all, other than records for her children. I am guessing that she died around 1694-1696, as Ysidro had 2 more children in 1697 and 1699 with Angela Dias de la Huerta.

Daniel

Comment

Daniel,

Francisca Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar and Isidro de Villalobos are my ancestors too. you can find them here:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Escoto_y_Tovar-12

I'm not sure who the parents of Francisca Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar are either. But she could be this child baptized in 1656:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Escoto_y_Tovar-30

not sure, but its a possibility

Danny C. Alonso

Published by RJQ – Fri, 2016-04-08 08:46 | Permalink

Comment

In my experience, the "castas" system was not used based on the romanticized colonial charts (made mostly as propaganda rather than scientific research). In Mexico, from all the records I've seen, less than five per cent are true to these charts, Is obvious (to me a least) that the "race" designation was used as a physical description rather than genetic, and the words "mulato", "morisco", and "lobo" are often used simply to state that the kid is from a possible mix ancestry, and/or a times to state how they "look", similar to today's "tez morena" "tez clara". Thus if the kid look a bit dark-skin, they would likely use any of those "castas" to "describe" him/her, regardless of their parents been "Spanish". (and for the most part the parents, specially the mother, where not present during the baptism)

A pattern I've notice at times in some towns is that when Spanish people have kids of darker skin, the would use "morisco", but when the kid was from Spanish and Natives, they would likely use "mulato" or "lobo", still it was up to the priest to designate.

Also the "casta" was thought by many, to be part of their social status, at times those who descend from Wealthy and Influential Natives/Mestizos were called Spanish.

In your record, if you don't have any other than Spanish lines before the child, is likely that the "morisco" only refers to her skin tone. But never discard any possibility. Hope it helps a little.

Record Deciphering Request. New connections Muro/Salas/Arizmendi

Published by The Genealogist –
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Genealogy Research

Not long ago I was working on finding the parents of Maria de Arizmendi (wife of Juan del Muro (I)).

Comments

Published by RJQ – Wed, 2016-04-06 09:20 | Permalink

Comment

Text goes like this:

-Don Juan del Muro introduce Lorenso Lopes Pichardo as witness.

-Lorenso said he knows the one who introduce him since He born. (note "conoce al que lo presenta" in this case "presenta" means "to introduce" not "her/she is present", here the witness is talking about Juan)

-That Juan was married with Doña Antonia de Abila.

-That they both Juan and Antonia had a son, among others named Br. Dn. Aparisio Benansio del Muro.

-That he (Lorenso) knew Juan's parents "Juan del Muro and Maria de Arismendis"

-That he (Lorenso) didn't knew Antonia's parent in person but that he knew by others that they were "Pedro del Muro and Maria de Chirriaga"

-That the marternal grandparents of Juan del Muro (son) are "Juan de Arismendi and Maria de la Candelaria Rios"

-That even when he (Lorenso) didn't knew Juan (son) paternal grandparents, he knows by other people that they were "Pedro de Salas and Juana de Bonilla. (this means according to the witness that "Salas" and "Del Muro" were the same Family.

After this, there is the customary declaration of "pureness of blood", it goes and says that all the named people are "old Christians" and have no "blood mixture" etc. There is no other information in this paragraph about the Grandparents or else.

If you take in account the margin of error during the writing of this documents plus the fact that the witness didn't really knew the grand parents, chances are that they names were not fully accurate.

Hope it helps a little.

Presentación

Published by Elita10 –
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Genealogy Research

Hola, soy Ely Márquez, empecé hace 3 años buscando conocer a la familia, pero no he sido constante hasta hoy, y lo poco que he encontrado es que al igual que varios de ustedes (por lo que he leído),

Unusual Entry

Published by alicebb –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello Group,
This entry doesn't follow the usual formula I've read in baptismal entries, so I need your kind assistance in interpreting.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20879-26815-2

Comments

Published by ElCapitanPaco – Thu, 2016-04-07 15:31 | Permalink

Comment

Hola miembros de Nuestro Ranchos: ¿Quieren escuchar la ópera de Giuseppe Verdi, “Simón Bocanegra”?
---------
On Saturday, April 9 @10:00 a.m. on KUSC (radio station in Southern California 91.5 FM or online @ www.kusc.org) the Verdi's opera "Simon Boccanegra" will be broadcast for those interested in a "story" about Genoa's first Doge.

Simon Boccanegra is an opera with a prologue and three acts by Giuseppe Verdi to an Italian libretto by Francesco Maria Piave, based on the play Simón Bocanegra (1843) by Antonio García Gutiérrez, whose play El trovador had been the basis for Verdi's 1853 opera, Il trovatore.
---------
El sábado, 9 de abril a las 10:00 a.m. van a transmitir la ópera “Simón Boccanegra” (91.5 FM – KUSC, una estación de radio en el sur de California o en la red en www.kusc.org). La ópera de Giuseppe Verdi será transmitida para todo aquel interesado en la “historia” del primer dux de Génova.

Simón Boccanegra es una ópera con música en un prólogo y tres actos, con música de Giuseppe Verdi, y libreto de Francesco Maria Piave, Giuseppe Montanelli y Arrigo Boito (responsable de la revisión), basado en una pieza teatral homónima de Antonio García Gutiérrez. La versión original fue estrenada en el Teatro La Fenice de Venecia el 12 de marzo de 1857.
----------

But if you miss it...you can always find it on YOUTUBE.COM

SFHL

Published by alicebb – Wed, 2014-09-24 18:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Alicia,
It's on the right hand page the one at the lower corner--Maria San Diego.
I usually see hija lexitimo de Nicolas Vocanegra y Maria Roxo.
This entry has included info between the parents names and I'm not sure what
it means.
Thanks again,
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 7:01 PM

Alice,

Which entry from these 2
pages?

Alicia

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Alice Blake

wrote:

> Hello Group,
> This entry doesn't follow the usual
formula I've read in baptismal
>
entries, so I need your kind assistance in interpreting.
>
>
>
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20879-26815-26?cc=1881200…
>
> Thanks so much for
all your help.
> Alice Blake
>
>
>

Comment

Hello Alicia,
It's on the right hand page the one at the lower corner--Maria San Diego.
I usually see hija lexitimo de Nicolas Vocanegra y Maria Roxo.
This entry has included info between the parents names and I'm not sure what
it means.
Thanks again,
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 7:01 PM

Alice,

Which entry from these 2
pages?

Alicia

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Alice Blake

wrote:

> Hello Group,
> This entry doesn't follow the usual
formula I've read in baptismal
>
entries, so I need your kind assistance in interpreting.
>
>
>
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20879-26815-26?cc=1881200…
>
> Thanks so much for
all your help.
> Alice Blake
>
>
>

Comment

Hi Alice,

Between the parents names, after don Nicolas Vocanegra, it says Alguasil mayor de Santo Oficio. The Alguacil Mayor, I think is normally like a Sheriff or Town Constable, but, this says Alguacil Mayor de Santo Oficio, which would be referring to The Holy Office, which is the nice name for the Inquisition, so he would most likely have been in charge of arresting people for crimes against the Church like heresy and stuff like that.

Christopher de Cuellar

From: Alice Blake
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry

Hello Alicia,
It's on the right hand page the one at the lower corner--Maria San Diego.
I usually see hija lexitimo de Nicolas Vocanegra y Maria Roxo.
This entry has included info between the parents names and I'm not sure what
it means.
Thanks again,
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 7:01 PM

Alice,

Which entry from these 2
pages?

Alicia

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Alice Blake

wrote:

> Hello Group,
> This entry doesn't follow the usual
formula I've read in baptismal
>
entries, so I need your kind assistance in interpreting.
>
>
>
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20879-26815-26?cc=1881200…
>
> Thanks so much for
all your help.
> Alice Blake
>
>
>

Published by rosa9972 – Wed, 2014-09-24 17:04 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Alice,

Is there a specific record you need help with? They all look like baptism records, but a more abbreviated version than the usual record.

Rosalinda

Comment

Hello Rosalinda,
I'm so sorry. It's on the right hand side, at the bottom.
Maria de San Diego Bocanegra. There's additional info
I'm not used to seeing and not sure what it says.
Thank you so much.
Alice Blake

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, rruizgenealogy@ix.netcom.com wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 7:04 PM

Hi Alice,

Is there a specific record you
need help with? They all look like baptism records, but a
more abbreviated version than the usual record.

Rosalinda

Comment

Here's my quick read on this (mistakes in reading are possible, abbreviations used):

En el pueblo de San Juo del Rio, en veinte y nueve de Nobe de setecientos y trece años ex lisentia parrochi baptize a Maria de San Diego hija lexma de Dn. Nicolas de Vocanegra Alguasil mayor de Sto Oficio, y de Da Maria Roxo fueron sus padrinos el Cappn D Juo [Juan] de Lovion y Dna Margarita Resends
[signatures]

I think the part you're wondering about is the wording after Nicolas de Vocanegra's name. It's in reference to his position, alguacil mayor. You can read more about that here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alguacil

Let me add the position is in reference to the Santo Oficio (the religious aspect of governance is my best way of describing it; others I'm sure are more knowledgeable about it).

I hope this helps!

Rosalinda

Comment

I couldn't have done it without you, since I've never read the word alguasil before.
Thanks so much for your help.
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, rruizgenealogy@ix.netcom.com wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 8:24 PM

Here's my quick read
on this (mistakes in reading are possible, abbreviations
used):

En el pueblo de San
Juo del Rio, en veinte y nueve de Nobe de setecientos y
trece años ex lisentia parrochi baptize a Maria de San
Diego hija lexma de Dn. Nicolas de Vocanegra Alguasil mayor
de Sto Oficio, y de Da Maria Roxo  fueron sus padrinos el
Cappn D Juo [Juan] de Lovion y Dna Margarita Resends
[signatures]

I
think the part you're wondering about is the wording
after Nicolas de Vocanegra's name. It's in reference
to his position, alguacil mayor. You can read more about
that here: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alguacil

I hope this helps!

Rosalinda

Comment

Alguacil is the modern translation of the word "Sheriff". Such as the word sheriff means "shire reeve" in ancient Anglo-Saxon. Al-guacil is originally Arabic and means the "local law authority".

As "Alguacil Mayor del Santo Oficio [de la Inquisicion]" he would have been in charge of arresting people accused of heresy, witchcraft, jewish-converso practices, blasphemy, native Indian pagan worship, and subsequently bringing them before the "Regidores" the council members/judges who would interrogate you and ascertain your guilt or innocence.

[By the way....isn't Queretaro a treasure trove of Italian immigrants?? Just on this page you see two Italian family names...Spinola (Espinola/Espindola) and Bocanegra...plus others like Grimaldi (Grimaldo), Lomellini (Lomelin/Lomeli) and Fregoso are not uncommon in Queretaro and Puebla genealogy.]

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

It's not surprising that so many Spanish words have Arabic origins. I once read that most Spanish words that begin with "al" are of Arabic origin.
Even ojala comes from the Arabic for "God willing". I taught an English as a second language class of 50% Arabs and 50% Hispanics.
The Hispanic students were sharing a joke amongst themselves that mentioned "calzones". The Arabs snickered and said that
calzones and pantalones have the same meaning in Arabic.

About the Italian, I noticed that, too. However, I never knew my Vocanegra surname to be Italian. I've also been told that my Bravo surname is originally Sicilian.
At this point in time I can only say that as far as I have found (only to the 1700's) they both came from Spain. But, as we all know, genealogy is full of surprises!
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 9/26/14, PacoHernandez73@msn.com wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alguacil mayor
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, September 26, 2014, 6:15 PM

Alguacil is the modern
translation of the word "Sheriff".  Such as the
word sheriff means "shire reeve" in ancient
Anglo-Saxon.  Al-guacil is originally Arabic and means the
"local law authority". 

As "Alguacil Mayor del Santo Oficio [de la
Inquisicion]" he would have been in charge of arresting
people accused of heresy, witchcraft, jewish-converso
practices, blasphemy, native Indian pagan worship, and
subsequently bringing them before the "Regidores"
the council members/judges who would interrogate you and
ascertain your guilt or innocence. 

[By the way....isn't Queretaro a treasure
trove of Italian immigrants??  Just on this page you see
two Italian family names...Spinola (Espinola/Espindola) and
Bocanegra...plus others like Grimaldi (Grimaldo), Lomellini
(Lomelin/Lomeli) and Fregoso are not uncommon in Queretaro
and Puebla genealogy.]

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Hello Alice,

Calzón comes from Latin.
http://castellanoactual.com/una-familia-peculiar-calza-calzar-calzado-c…

Pantalón comes from Italian pantaloni through French pantalon.
http://www.elcastellano.org/palabra.php?id=1086

Saludos,
Armando

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> It's not surprising that so many Spanish words have Arabic origins. I
> once read that most Spanish words that begin with "al" are of Arabic origin.
> Even ojala comes from the Arabic for "God willing". I taught an English
> as a second language class of 50% Arabs and 50% Hispanics.
> The Hispanic students were sharing a joke amongst themselves that
> mentioned "calzones". The Arabs snickered and said that
> calzones and pantalones have the same meaning in Arabic.
>
> About the Italian, I noticed that, too. However, I never knew my
> Vocanegra surname to be Italian. I've also been told that my Bravo surname
> is originally Sicilian.
> At this point in time I can only say that as far as I have found (only to
> the 1700's) they both came from Spain. But, as we all know, genealogy is
> full of surprises!
> Alice
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 9/26/14, PacoHernandez73@msn.com wrote:
>
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alguacil mayor
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, September 26, 2014, 6:15 PM
>
> Alguacil is the modern
> translation of the word "Sheriff". Such as the
> word sheriff means "shire reeve" in ancient
> Anglo-Saxon. Al-guacil is originally Arabic and means the
> "local law authority".
>
> As "Alguacil Mayor del Santo Oficio [de la
> Inquisicion]" he would have been in charge of arresting
> people accused of heresy, witchcraft, jewish-converso
> practices, blasphemy, native Indian pagan worship, and
> subsequently bringing them before the "Regidores"
> the council members/judges who would interrogate you and
> ascertain your guilt or innocence.
>
> [By the way....isn't Queretaro a treasure
> trove of Italian immigrants?? Just on this page you see
> two Italian family names...Spinola (Espinola/Espindola) and
> Bocanegra...plus others like Grimaldi (Grimaldo), Lomellini
> (Lomelin/Lomeli) and Fregoso are not uncommon in Queretaro
> and Puebla genealogy.]
>
> Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Calzones and pantalones might be Latin in origin, but they're used in Arabic. So they got those words from the Spanish.

There are indeed many Spanish words from Arabic, including our names: Guadalupe, Omar, Fatima, Lilia and Medina are just a few that come to mind.

Arabic language influence on the Spanish language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language_influence_on_the_Spanish_l…

Laura Gonzalez

Comment

Hello Laura,

The point was that the word flow was not Arabic to Spanish since the
subject was about Arabic words in Spanish.

I was already aware of the Spanish words from Arabic since I was a teenager
and I wasn't inferring otherwise.

Armando

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 12:47 AM, wrote:

> Calzones and pantalones might be Latin in origin, but they're used in
> Arabic. So they got those words from the Spanish.
>
> There are indeed many Spanish words from Arabic, including our names:
> Guadalupe, Omar, Fatima, Lilia and Medina are just a few that come to mind.
>
> Arabic language influence on the Spanish language
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language_influence_on_
> the_Spanish_language
>
>
>
> Laura Gonzalez

Comment

In reference to original baptismal entry...the father of the child was "Alguacil Bocanegra".

While the etymology of "alguacil" is well established as Arabic, the origin of the surname Bocanegra is indeed Italian...specifically Ligurian/Genoese.

I have been researching almost exclusively Italian and Portuguese genealogies recently and have discovered the origin of the Bocanegra surname in my Estrada-Bocanegra ancestry from Teocaltiche and Guadalajara.

The surname Boccanegra (Italian) or Bocanegra (Spanish) originated in northern Italy during the 13th century. The first Doge of Genova was named Simone Boccanegra. Go to =>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boccanegra

Interesting story about OUR last name...
In Italian [as in Spanish], bocca means "mouth and Ne(g)ra "black", so in English Boccanegra means "black mouth". Translation – Mouth Black, or in English Black Mouth.

During the 13th century the representation or depiction of evil was black (or Darkness) and the representation or depiction of speaking was the Mouth.

To say that one had a "black mouth" was to say that one was an "evil speaker" or one who "spoke of evil".

Although possessors of wisdom and knowledge that could aid mankind, the ancestors of this name were regarded as mystics, soothsayers, and alchemists, being branded by some as heretics, sorcerers, necromancers and warlocks. Despite this, they were the healers of their time, counsel to kings, and, ultimately, bringers of peace.

Simone Boccanegra (died 1363) was the first doge of Genoa, elected doge for life on September 24, 1339. His story was popularized by Antonio García Gutiérrez's 1843 play Simón Bocanegra and Giuseppe Verdi's 1857 opera Simon Boccanegra. Note the spellings in Spanish and Italian.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Hi Steven,
How very interesting. I probably would have been burnt at the stake in 13th century Italy
with Bocanegra family and the fact that I'm left-handed. As you probably know "left" in Italian is "sinistra".
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 9/29/14, PacoHernandez73@msn.com wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bocanegra e un cognome italiano
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, September 29, 2014, 5:57 PM

In reference to original
baptismal entry...the father of the child was "Alguacil
Bocanegra".

While the
etymology of "alguacil" is well established as
Arabic, the origin of the surname Bocanegra is indeed
Italian...specifically Ligurian/Genoese.

I have been researching almost exclusively
Italian and Portuguese genealogies recently and have
discovered the origin of the Bocanegra surname in my
Estrada-Bocanegra ancestry from Teocaltiche and
Guadalajara.

The surname
Boccanegra (Italian) or Bocanegra (Spanish) originated in
northern Italy during the 13th century. The first Doge of
Genova was named Simone Boccanegra.  Go to =>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boccanegra

Interesting story about OUR
last name...
In Italian [as in Spanish],
bocca means "mouth and Ne(g)ra "black", so in
English Boccanegra means "black mouth".
Translation – Mouth Black, or in English Black Mouth.

During the 13th century the
representation or depiction of evil was black (or Darkness)
and the representation or depiction of speaking was the
Mouth.

To say that one had
a "black mouth" was to say that one was an
"evil speaker" or one who "spoke of
evil".

Although
possessors of wisdom and knowledge that could aid mankind,
the ancestors of this name were regarded as mystics,
soothsayers, and alchemists, being branded by some as
heretics, sorcerers, necromancers and warlocks. Despite
this, they were the healers of their time, counsel to kings,
and, ultimately, bringers of peace.

Simone Boccanegra (died 1363) was the first
doge of Genoa, elected doge for life on September 24, 1339.
His story was popularized by Antonio García
Gutiérrez's 1843 play Simón Bocanegra and Giuseppe
Verdi's 1857 opera Simon Boccanegra. Note the spellings
in Spanish and Italian.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Dear Steve,

Merry Christmas,

I wanted to add some information clarifying the Bocanegra stories

You stated:

Simone Boccanegra (died 1363) was the first doge of Genoa, elected doge for life on September 24, 1339. His story was popularized by Antonio García Gutiérrez's 1843 play Simón Bocanegra and Giuseppe Verdi's 1857 opera Simon Boccanegra. Note the spellings in Spanish and Italian.

My clarifications:
The truth is that Antonio Garcia Gutierrez's play was not exactly a true story. Simone Boccanegra was never a corsair, ever a sailor and he was not involved with a Fieshi. The author combined the stories of two brothers, Simon and Egidio, into one character.

He used Simone's name and position as doge of Genoa, combined with his brother egidios life as a sailor and corsair. Egidio was married to Maria Fieschi but it was not the dramatic story of the play I descend from Aegidio [Egidio] Boccanegra (aka Gil Barbanegra), a brother to the real Simone Boccanegra. Simon and Egidio are the sons of Giacomo Bocconegra and Genevra Saraceni. Egidio is named after his maternal grandfather. He and his son, Ambogio, had some great triumphs that have written in the history books.

The myth that the family picked up the name in the 13th century is not true as the family already has the surname in the twelfth century.

Although the play/opera is not a true story, they did use bits of true facts. Also This family has many interesting stories. Egidio's wife is a great niece to a Catholic Pope.

One interesting fact about this family is that their subjects had the choice of punishment for adultery. The traditional sentence of stoning would be waived if they agreed to become a slave.

R.A.Ricci

Comment

After researching the origin of the word pantalón I found that it is from
the name of one of the most important principal characters found in La
*Commedia
dell'Arte* from the 16th century. It is very doubtful that it made it into
Arabic from Spanish in the 16th century or after especially since from what
I can find pantalon or bantalun or بنطلون isn't even used in Morocco or
the Maghreb. They use sarwel for pantalón.

Armando

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 12:47 AM, wrote:

> Calzones and pantalones might be Latin in origin, but they're used in
> Arabic. So they got those words from the Spanish.
>
> There are indeed many Spanish words from Arabic, including our names:
> Guadalupe, Omar, Fatima, Lilia and Medina are just a few that come to mind.
>
> Arabic language influence on the Spanish language
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language_influence_on_
> the_Spanish_language
>
>
>
> Laura Gonzalez
>
>

Comment

I used to work with someone who had immigrated from Lebanon with his wife. One time, I walked into his office and he was on the phone with her, speaking in Arabic. At one point in the conversation, I was sure I heard the word "pantalones" distinctly. I thought it must be some other word that just had the same sound, as I don't speak Arabic. I asked him if he had been speaking to his wife about pants, and he said "Yes! You know Arabic?" I said no, the word for pants was the same in Spanish. We did a collective 'wow' and had a good laugh over that.

Last year, I went to the Middle East for a week for work. I wanted to learn a few words and phrases in order to get around, to ask directions, to shop, that kind of thing. I found that personally it was easier for me to learn Arabic words when I was using a Spanish-to-Arabic translator site. There are literally thousands of words that came into use in Castilian (typical Spanish) from the hundreds of years of Arabic rule of the Iberian peninsula. That and knowing that my family name seems to have deep roots in southern Spain (aka, Al Andalus) where the name Velez is spread throughout in names of towns, mountain ranges, and rivers, specifically names of places with towers (Ballis in Arabic) that had been established since the time of the Arabs, is what originally drove me to try and trace my family history. All very interesting stuff :)

Sandra Velez

Moyahua-Juchipila - Christoval Reynoso found as husband of Ana Maria Gonsales de Rubalcaba y Ximenes

Published by Lee1 Ingram –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Silverio Reynoso y Renteria, Antonio Justo Reynoso y Renteria and Alejandro Mariano Reynoso y Renteria were all known to be the children of Ana Maria Gonsales de Rubalcaba y Ximenes, but it was unknow

Comments

Published by Lee1 Ingram – Thu, 2016-04-07 13:46 | Permalink

Comment

2 more children proven to Christoval Reynoso y Renteria and Ana Maria Gonsales de Rubalcaba y Ximenes, noted on following 1837 marriage dispensation link:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18426-48680-24?cc=1874591

Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, Guadalajara Diócesis de Guadalajara
Matrimonios 1837, parte 2, images 1183-1188. (Reynoso and Estrada trees on image 1185)
15 July 1837 Marriage dispensation of Hilario Garcia and Juana Ulloa
Hilario Garcia was the son of Jose Benasio Garcia and Maria Cipriana Eufrosina Reynoso (mother Cipriana deceased). Hilario Garcia was 18 years old in 1837, placing his birth year circa 1819, originally from Moyahua.
Juana Ulloa was the daughter of Jose Ygnancio Ulloa (Deceased) and Maria Margarita
Reynoso y Renteria (deceased). Juana was 16 years old in 1837, placing her birth year circa 1821, originally from Moyahua.
The bride/groom were distantly related by both the Reynoso Family and the Estrada Family.

Cristoval Reynoso was the father of 1-Alejo Reynoso and 2-Jose Maria Reynoso

1-Cristoval Reynoso was the father of Alejo Reynoso, who was the father of Margarita Reynoso, who was the mother of Juana Ulloa (bride).
2-Cristoval Reynoso was the father of Jose Maria Reynoso, who was the father of Cipriana Reynoso, who was the mother of Hilario Garcia (groom).

Juan Jose de Estrada was the father of 3-Maria Estrada and 4-Antonia Estrada

3-Juan Jose de Estrada was the father of Maria Estrada, who was the mother of Margarita Reynoso, who was the mother of Juana Ulloa (bride).
4-Juan Jose de Estrada was the father of Antonia Estrada, who was the the mother of Cipriana Reynoso, who was the mother of Hilario Garcia (groom).

Deciphering marriage certificate

Published by dgmiv –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I need some help in figuring out the bride's mother's name on the marriage certificate for Agustin Ursua and Bernardina Gutierres at https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5BH-B?mode=g&i=359&wc

Comments

Comment

Nicolas de Ursua married to Josepha Rodriguez Martin de Chabes (IM-1708 attached)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BL51

The parents of Nicolas de Ursua are listed as Augustin de Ursua and Bernarda Rodriguez and originally from Aguascalientes. The record you attached to deciper Ana de Chabes states an explanation of aguascalientes being his place of origin but the birth record states Jalisco. They seem to be the same person except for the timeframe of birth and IM date of birth. Of course, the priest could have made mistakes as in the case in several of my ancestors records.

Are they the same person, perhaps I missed something. I just found this record of marriage yesterday as he is married to my 1st cousin 8x removed.

Comment

On 7 May 1708 in Lagos, Nicolas de Ursua provided information to marry Josefa Martinez, 'espanola' from Hacienda la Pendencia in Sierra de Pinos, daughter of Pascual Rodriguez and Matiana Martinez (deceased). In the IM he states that he is from Rio de Santa Maria in the 'parroquia' of Lagos, he is the legitimate son of Agustin de Ursua and Bernarda Gutierrez, 'espanoles'. He declares that he is 24 years old which is 7 years older than the age of the Nicolas baptized in Lagos on 30 Sept 1677. Perhaps he didn't know when he was born and therefore didn't know his true age (not uncommon) or maybe the Nicolas born in 1677 died young and this is a second Nicolas?

The IM is at: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-V1N9-C?i=110&wc=3J8Q-L2S%3…

Saludos
Austin Perez

Comment

Hi Austin - My line of descent is actually through the brother of Nicolas, Manuel. He was born in 1679 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K9D1-P?mode=g&i=71&wc=3J86… and married Petra Ornelas in 1707. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K98W-N?mode=g&i=162&wc=3J8…

The marriage certificate also states that Manuel is from Rio de Santa Maria and that Petronila is from Hacienda de San Matias. But unfortunately it doesn't give parents' names. I can verify Manuel's from his death certificate, but I haven't been able to find Petra's.

I get really frustrated with trying to work with información matrimonial. Do you have any suggestions? Almost every time I have tried, I can get to a month before the marriage in question and then it skips to six months after. I am really interested in this particular marriage because I can't find any other information about Petra / Petronila Ornelas.

Thanks for all your help. I especially like your wiki pages.

Daniel

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Hi Daniel,
I too descend from this couple. They are my 7th great grandparents. Below is the relavent information from their IM which is located at:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VY9S-WC?i=119&wc=3JZP-L29%…

agos, 29 enero 1707: Manuel de Ursúa, español [de edad veintiún años], originario y vecino de esta feligresía en el Río de Santa María, hijo legítimo de Agustín de Ursúa y de Bernarda Gutiérrez, parezco ante vuestra merced como mejor haya lugar y digo que tengo tratado y concertado el contraer matrimonio según orden de Nuestra Madre Iglesia con Petronila de Ornelas, española [de edad de dieciocho años], originaria y vecina de esta feligresía en la hacienda de San Matías, hija legítima de José de Ornelas y de Ángela Pérez

testigos: Felipe de Espinoza, español y vecino de esta villa, dijo ser de edad de treinta y un años y que en las generales no le tocan; José Manuel Ramos, español y vecino de esta feligresía en la hacienda de San Matías, dijo ser de edad de cuarenta años y que en las generales no le tocan; Bartolomé González Montero, español y vecino de esta villa, dijo ser de edad de veinticinco años

Regarding searching documents that are not in chronological order; I have no answer except to say that you need patience, lots of patience. The following link is to a spreadsheet that was shared by a Nuestros Ranchos member some time ago and which I've added to when I search the archives. The way it is setup is that each tab represents a parrish or other resource. The columns are the film numbers and the rows are the image numbers. Some of the films may not be correctly indexed due to LDS rearranging the image numbering.

Best regards
Austin Perez

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3835176/Registros%20de%20Los%20Alto…

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Hello Daniel. My stepfather Anastacio Sanchez married my mother and they had five children. I had one of my half sisters take the dna test. The results were 60% Native American. I found one family member for Urzua that are identified as Indian. My step father's and all his siblings had blue, green or hazel eyes and white skin. My stepfather was born in 1914. His gggrandfather Onofre Sanchez Married Maria Jesus Gutierrez in 1847, Villa de Garcia, Nuevo Leon. Do you have these names in your family tree?

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Thanks Austin

Two would make sense. The two Nicolas' are surely related, first they marry into the Chabes, and Rodriguez, as many of us know, families seem to marry into the same families.

What is a mystery are the differences in surnames of bernarda, it could mean two bernardas which was a name in fashion at the time and the "original de Aguascalientes" for Agustin. I will keep looking for answers and hope someone else has a piece to contribute.

Arizmendi (Jalisco/Zacatecas/Aguascalientes/San Luis Potosi)

Published by The Genealogist –
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Juan del Muro and his wife Maria de Arizmendi were married in Aguascalientes 8 January 1668. Many descendants of this couple spread throughout Aguascalientes, Jalisco, and Zacatecas.

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Published by The Genealogist – Sun, 2016-04-03 13:20 | Permalink

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Thank you for sharing this ordones. It is proving to be very useful.

Who is this PEDRO GUTIERREZ ?

Published by Ruben Hdez –
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There is a marriage at https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-F79B-5S?mode=g&i=215&wc=3J… (bottom right).

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Published by dcalonso – Sat, 2016-04-02 13:57 | Permalink

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Ruben,

There is a son of Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Ana Gonzalez Florida that uses the name Pedro Gutierrez de HErmosillo. I'm not sure if it's the same as yours but it does tell you that there were descendants of the Gonzalez de Hermosillo's that use the name Pedro Gutierrez. I'm not sure when your Pedro was born but this Pedro Gutierrez de Hermosillo would have been born before 1666. you can find see him here:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Guti%C3%A9rrez_de_Hermosillo-32

Danny C. Alonso

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