Dr.mt

Visiting Jalisco

Published by Esther Hernand… –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi everyone, I’m currently in Degollado, Jalisco visiting my parents.

Comments

Published by mralvarez314 – Thu, 2019-10-03 05:20 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Esther!

I just saw this particular post of yours. I was in Degollado this summer too. And I went out to see the surrounding region like you did. It was an amazing experience.

I brought back a couple of books by José "Pepe" Villaseñor Ramírez that might interest you. One is a microhistoria of Degollado à la Pueblo en vilo. Microhistoria de San José de Gracia (1968) by Luis González y González. The other is an anthology of oral histories he collected from some of the older residents of the town. I don't have them in front of me know, but I'll share their titles here later. I bought them from his sister, about a half a block up from la Plaza de la Amistad.

Glenn

José Villaseñor Ramírez Book Titles:
1 - Crónicas de la memoria. Los oficios en el siglo XX en Degollado, Jalisco
2 - Casa grande, patria chica.

Published by Esther Hernand… – Tue, 2019-10-08 13:00 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Mr Alvarez,

Do you have family in Degollado? My parents and relatives live there. I had a wonderful time there. We did a lot of hiking and exploring up in the hills and ranches. Saw old abandoned homes and found indian carvings in rocks. My cousin has found a lot of indian artifacts up in the hills.
It's in amazing place to visit and relax.

That is so funny you have the books, I also purchased 3 books but I will have to check the titles when I get home. One of his books is about Degollado Dec. 1917 and my great grandfather is mentioned in there. He died in the battle they had in the town. I know he was working on another book but not if it is out yet.

Jose Villasenor Ramirez's aunt lives across the street from my grandparents home. I use to play with his cousins when we were kids.

Esther

Cotija, Michoacan - Padrones 1759 &1768

Published by gaby.barbosa –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola prim@s,

Comments

Published by gaby.barbosa – Thu, 2019-10-03 18:31 | Permalink

Comment

I love the comradery in our forum!

Gracias a todos <3

Comment

Daniel, Thanks again for sharing the census,

I noticed that the one for 1776 is for Tinguindin, at at the very end the person doing it wrote, that Cotija was in a different book, have you by chance come across it?

Thanks to the one from 1742 I was able to find the link to my Guizar line, and others :)

Thank you in advance

Need help with correct pronunciation of family name Orendain

Published by Laurel.Anne.Hill –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I am having an audiobook produced, dedicated to my great-grandmother,
Hipolita Orendain de Medina.

Comments

Published by rmfpdx – Fri, 2019-10-04 15:13 | Permalink

Comment

This answer assumes you are seeking the Spanish pronunciation. I have no idea how Basque pronounces anything.
If there are no accent marks, then it would be o-REN-dain (o-REN-dine in English spelling), with accent on middle "REN." This is because in Spanish the next to the last syllable takes the stress in any word that ends in a vowel, "n," or "s." If the word ends in a consonant, then the stress is on the last syllable. The only way to change that is to use an accent mark to indicate the syllable that should have the accent.

If Oredain were to be pronounced with stress on the final syllable, o-ren-DAIN, then you would have to place an accent mark on the "a." The letters "e" and "i" are "weak" vowels in Spanish and so glide into and form a diphthong with the vowel next to them. Following this rule, "dai" would be pronounced like English "die" (setting aside for the moment the fact that Spanish "d" sounds more like English "th" and not English "d"), regardless whether it is the syllable that is stressed or not. If you wanted the final "i" to have the stress, then you'd have to put an accent mark on it.

As to what the original spelling with accent marks was, that might be mostly conjecture since Spanish famously did not start to use accent marks regularly prior to about two centuries ago.

If you can get away with it, just put Orendain in all caps ("ORENDAIN"). Then you can sidestep the whole accent mark question, since Spanish capital letters do not take diacritical marks.

Orendain pron

Published by Abraham –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I would go for a long i ( your second choice), but then that's how we (mexicans) pronounce it now, heavens knows how they did it back then.
Abraham de Alba

Enviado desde Yahoo Mail para Android

Comments

Published by meef98367 – Thu, 2019-10-03 11:30 | Permalink

Comment

Also, the single "r" is not rolled. The double "rr" is rolled.

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of Abraham de Alba A.
Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 7:24 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org ; research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org ; research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Orendain pron

I would go for a long i ( your second choice), but then that's how we (mexicans) pronounce it now, heavens knows how they did it back then.
Abraham de Alba

Enviado desde Yahoo Mail para Android

El miér., 2 de oct. de 2019 a la(s) 15:47, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org escribió: Send Research mailing list submissions to
research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists…

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
research-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."

Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
DAILY DIGEST
****************************************

Today's Topics:

1. Need help with correct pronunciation of family name Orendain
(Laurel Anne Hill)
2. Two Diego de Alcocer (pavendano@earthlink.net)
3. Guadalajara Entierros (pavendano@earthlink.net)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:46:38 -0700
From: Laurel Anne Hill
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help with correct pronunciation of
family name Orendain
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I am having an audiobook produced, dedicated to my great-grandmother,
Hipolita Orendain de Medina. I need to know the correct Spanish
pronunciation of "Orendain." I've gone to a variety of resources online,
but they don't all agree. I have no contact with any living relatives in
Mexico. Is the "dain" part of the name pronounced similar to the English
"dain" (long a sound), "dine" (long i sound) or "dean/deen" (long e sound)
? And where should the accent mark fall?

I truly would appreciate your assistance.

Thank you,
Laurel Anne Hill

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 18:39:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: pavendano@earthlink.net
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Two Diego de Alcocer
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hi Rick, I see ?hermano?. I am however a novice in reading old
manuscript. I?ve asked a few people including historians and credible
genealogists and they concur. Maybe others can weigh in? I see: ?QUE EL
DOCTOR JUAN D?AZ DE ALCOCER DEL NUESTRO CONSEJO VUESTRO HERMANO... ? In
this immediate family there are many Diego?s and a few Pedro?s so I?m
not surprised that people easily get them confused and much of my research is
in secondary resources since Not everything is online and I?m in
California. According to Los Conversos y la Inquisicion Sevillana by Juan Gil
v. 3, page 206-211. Dr. Juan Diaz de Alcocer was the Brother of Diego Alcocer
(married to Blanca). Other brothers include 1. Fernando married to Gracia de
Prado ( I think the Prado Madrid fam) 2. Pedro Gonzalez de Alcocer
Coincidently, in vol. 5 p. 394 of this book series it lists Pedro de Toledo
married to Beatriz Fernandez, parents of Blanca Nunez is listed in reference
to Beatriz testamento in 1508 where she requests to be buried in San
Bartolom? ( juder?a Sevilla) and names her children. 1. Rodrigo de Toledo
2. Garcia de la Torre 3. Blanca Nunez , mujer del jurado Diego de Alcocer.
I?d be interested to know anything u would like to share on Pedro de
Toledo. My research so far encompasses the alcocers including Maria Ortiz
their mother but I?ve barely scratched the surface if Blanca. Best, Maven

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 18:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: pavendano@earthlink.net
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Guadalajara Entierros
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hi Sus, This is great. Thank you for sharing. I found my many times gg
greatfather hernando Frias recorded. Best, Maven

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

Read full comment ➜

Published by Abraham – Thu, 2019-10-03 07:30 | Permalink

Comment

I would go for a long i ( your second choice), but then that's how we (mexicans) pronounce it now, heavens knows how they did it back then.
Abraham de Alba

Enviado desde Yahoo Mail para Android

El miér., 2 de oct. de 2019 a la(s) 15:47, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org escribió: Send Research mailing list submissions to
    research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-nuestrosranchos…

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    research-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."

Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
DAILY DIGEST
****************************************

Today's Topics:

  1. Need help with correct pronunciation of family name Orendain
      (Laurel Anne Hill)
  2. Two Diego de Alcocer (pavendano@earthlink.net)
  3. Guadalajara Entierros (pavendano@earthlink.net)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:46:38 -0700
From: Laurel Anne Hill
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help with correct pronunciation of
    family name Orendain
Message-ID:
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I am having an audiobook produced, dedicated to my great-grandmother,
Hipolita Orendain de Medina. I need to know the correct Spanish
pronunciation of "Orendain." I've gone to a variety of resources online,
but they don't all agree. I have no contact with any living relatives in
Mexico. Is the "dain" part of the name pronounced similar to the English
"dain" (long a sound), "dine" (long i sound) or "dean/deen" (long e sound)
? And where should the accent mark fall?

I truly would appreciate your assistance.

Thank you,
Laurel Anne Hill

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue,  1 Oct 2019 18:39:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: pavendano@earthlink.net
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Two Diego de Alcocer
Message-ID:
   
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hi Rick, I see ?hermano?. I am however a novice in reading old
manuscript. I?ve asked a few people including historians and credible
genealogists and they concur. Maybe others can weigh in? I see: ?QUE EL
DOCTOR JUAN D?AZ DE ALCOCER DEL NUESTRO CONSEJO VUESTRO HERMANO... ? In
this immediate family there are many Diego?s and a few Pedro?s so I?m
not surprised that people easily get them confused and much of my research is
in secondary resources since Not everything is online and I?m in
California. According to Los Conversos y la Inquisicion Sevillana by Juan Gil
v. 3, page 206-211. Dr. Juan Diaz de Alcocer was the Brother of Diego Alcocer
(married to Blanca). Other brothers include 1. Fernando married to Gracia de
Prado ( I think the Prado Madrid fam) 2. Pedro Gonzalez de Alcocer
Coincidently, in vol. 5 p. 394 of this book series it lists Pedro de Toledo
married to Beatriz Fernandez, parents of Blanca Nunez is listed in reference
to Beatriz testamento in 1508 where she requests to be buried in San
Bartolom? ( juder?a Sevilla) and names her children. 1. Rodrigo de Toledo
2. Garcia de la Torre 3. Blanca Nunez , mujer del jurado Diego de Alcocer.
I?d be interested to know anything u would like to share on Pedro de
Toledo. My research so far encompasses the alcocers including Maria Ortiz
their mother but I?ve barely scratched the surface if Blanca. Best, Maven

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue,  1 Oct 2019 18:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: pavendano@earthlink.net
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Guadalajara Entierros
Message-ID:
   
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hi Sus, This is great. Thank you for sharing. I found my many times gg
greatfather hernando Frias recorded. Best, Maven

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

Guadalajara Entierros

Published by superhorrible –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi,
I found I book online that I thought someone might find interesting.
the title of the book is:

Comments

Published by maven200 – Tue, 2019-10-01 18:58 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Sus,

This is great. Thank you for sharing. I found my many times gg greatfather hernando Frias recorded.
Best,
Maven

Research Digest, Vol 165, Issue 1

Published by Patricia –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi, Laurel....Orendain in Spanish (pronunciation) would be
"oh-ren-dine"....the "r" has a "rolled r" sound...long i sound...if you
google pronouncenames.com you can hear the pronunciation...best wis

Garcia-Rojas Family Photos of Pinos, Zacatecas

Published by rlm99x –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Not sure if this has been posted before, but I recently stumbled upon a book titled "No queda huella ni memoria?: semblanza iconográfica de una familia" by Aurelio de los Reyes.

Comments

Published by Ceciarco99119911 – Tue, 2019-10-01 14:59 | Permalink

Comment

Wow really interesting! I have a lot of Garcias from Zacatecas on both my mom and dads side. I wish I could find a book specifically about Sombrerete.

Published by mendezdetorres – Sat, 2019-09-28 21:40 | Permalink

Comment

Thanks for sharing this with the group Raúl.

My maternal grandmother was Carolina García-Rojas y Camino, her direct paternal line are nephews to the governor of Aguascalientes Pedro García de Rojas. The book is definitely an interesting read. As you denoted, the book contains many photographs, signatures, maps, etc. It even contains coat of arms of the López de Nava, González de Hermosillo and García de Rojas families.

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

Ruiz de Velasco y Haro

Published by mendezdetorres –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Can Any HELP! Those who have Ruiz de Velasco lines in Los Altos
the patriarch is Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro married to ANa Núñez
y Bohórrquez. He is supposed to have been a relative of the Viceroy

Comments

Published by michelja2k – Sun, 2019-09-22 19:31 | Permalink

Comment

Saludos Daniel ya habiamos correspondido hace tiempo. Busco datos sobre Isabel (Ruiz) de Haro. Segun una Limpieza de Sangre que revise Isabel fue hermana de Pedro Ruiz de Haro y hija de Pedro de Haro El secretario del Duque de Albuquerque. No de quien fue marido de Isabel. Es mi ancestra por familia Michel Ordonez. Region de Compostela y Guadalajara en tiempo de la Colonia. Cualquier dato que me aportes me services muchisimo Gracias de ante mano

Published by victor_manuel_gp – Sun, 2012-12-16 01:48 | Permalink

Comment

Victor M Gomez

HOLA A TODOS

EN UNA DISPENSA MATRIMONIAL ME ENCONTRE QUE LOS PADRES DE ANTONIO NUÑO RASURA ERAN ALONSO NUÑO E ISABEL NUÑEZ DE HARO, DESPUES DE MUCHO BUSCAR ENCONTRE OTRA GENERACION, ESTA ISABEL NUÑEZ DE HARO TENDRA ALGUNA RELACION CON LOS RUIZ DE VELASCO? ALGUIEN ME PUEDE AYUDAR. GRACIAS

Published by Marthaharo – Sat, 2008-12-13 16:00 | Permalink

Comment

hola,
Ruiz de Velasco y Haro?
creo que aqui tienes una confusión,
existen dos virreyes de Velasco y uno de Haro,

Luis de Velasco, Señor de Salinas (1550-1564)
Luis de Velasco, hijo (1590-1595) (1ª Vez)
Luis de Velasco, hijo (1607-1611) (2ª Vez)
Alonso Núñez de Haro y Peralta, Arzobispo de Mexico (Interino) (Mayo-Agosto
1787).

Creo que tienes mal la información, checa esta página:
http://documents.medici.org/people_details.cfm?personid=1290

Te platico mi historia, yo pensé que era descendiente de Alonso Nuñez de
Haro o de su familia, pero despues de hacer mi investigación me di cuenta
que mis origenes españoles eran mas recientes y venian de un pequeñisimo
pueblo cercano a Santander y hasta donde sé, sin relación alguna con este
personaje ya que el era oriundo de Cuenca tambien en España.

Espero que tu tengas mas suerte que yo, ya buscaremos las pruebas..

Saludos
Patty

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:06 PM, mendezdelcamino
wrote:

>
> Can Any HELP! Those who have Ruiz de Velasco lines in Los Altos
> the patriarch is Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro married to ANa Núñez
> y Bohórrquez. He is supposed to have been a relative of the Viceroy Luís
> Ruiz de Velasco y Haro or commonly shortened to Luís de Velasco.
> Has anyone made this connection yet or have any info or leads? If
> Pedro was a Velasco y Haro he has to descend from Antonio
> de Velasco, Sñor de salinas and Juana Ruiz de Alarcón. The Ruiz de Velasco
> y Haro last name was created when these two married. I have Pedro born ca.
> 1590
> His uknown father ca. 1560 and his grandfather uknown ca. 1518 and his grt
> grandfather should be Antonio de Velasco and Juana Ruiz de Alarcón. Who
> knows maybe the viceroy was his grandfather anything is possible but we need
> proof. Any leads or info welcomed! -Daniel Méndez del Camino

Comment

Hola Patty

Tengo esto,

Commenda of the Order di Santiago with a yield of four thousand scudi was passed on to his grandson or nephew, the son of Luis de Velasco.

Algún Velasco tuvó un ecomienda quizá el sobrino ó el nieto, pero no sé quien es. Pedro Ruiz de Velasco
sí tuvó una ecomienda en Ayo EL Chico, no sé sí Pedro puede ser el nieto del virrey, hijo. Hay una gran posibilidad el tiempo y el lugar es exacto y lo rellena pero buscaré más. Luís, hijo tuvó dos hijos Francisco y Antonio.

Saludos, Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/

Comment

¿Alguien tiene más información acerca de los Ruiz de Velasco? Estoy buscando a los progenitores de doña Marcela Ruiz de Velasco, casada con Miguel Navarro-Gaytán y Navarro-Gaytán, vecino de Ocotlán, Jalisco. En 1808 nació (en Ocotlán) su hija Gertrudis Navarro-Gaytán y Ruiz de Velasco, casada en la misma localidad con don Francisco de Salcedo, hijo de Luis Antonio de Salcedo y Luisa Venancia Salmerón, en el año de 1833.

Gracias y saludos,

Daniel

SIERRA DE PINOS: Gaspar Gómez de León and Ana de los Reyes, and their links to the Díaz de León and the Santiago families

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola prim@s,

Comments

Published by sarod77 – Sat, 2019-09-21 16:42 | Permalink

Comment

Once again Manny you find those nuggets and then you make sense out of them. Sorry it took so long to give you thanks but you have to admit there are so many of them with twists and curves and same names. Trying to catch up with their information. As Joan Dias de Leon is my 10th grandfather I will now look for any clue to who the daughter is that had Gaspar.

Thanks

Juan Vasques Perea

Published by robert.zermeno –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Quiero saber si alguien tiene algo de informacion sobre Juan Vasques Perea y si pude ser el mismo Juan Perea mentado en el libro "Fundadores de Nueva Galicia" por Guillermo Garmendia Leal:

Comments

Published by gaby.barbosa – Sat, 2019-09-21 13:28 | Permalink

Comment

Buscando info sobre Juan Vasques Perea, me encontré con esta pregunta, la cual yace desde 2010.
Retomo la cuestión y la dejo abierta, agradeciendo cualquier tipo de información que pudiera ser de utilidad.
English or Spanish :)
Saludos cordiales.

1775 Puerto of San Francisco of California by Juan De Ayala (pacquebot San Carlos)

Published by MADERA_32 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Found this map of the "Puerto de San Francisco" by Juan De Ayala of the pacquebot San Carlos. This is a detailed map of the San Francisco Bay year 1775.

Comments

Comment

On the Juan De Ayala expedition to the San Francisco Bay area. When he reached point almejas near the entrance to the bay, he had described being greeted by natives that came out in canoes and says they were "hombres y mujeres con su color blanco, pelo rubio, ojos azules."

I had referenced finding this on page 29 year 1775.

https://ibb.co/K97Lgt4

Comment

On the Juan De Ayala expedition to the San Francisco Bay area. When he reached point almejas near the entrance to the bay, he had described being greeted by natives that came out in canoes and says they were "hombres y mujeres con su color blanco, pelo rubio, ojos azules."

I had referenced finding this on page 29 year 1775.

https://ibb.co/K97Lgt4

Comment

Found something interesting. Currently I live in San Mateo, CA. I was just curios and was reading the exploration diary of explore Gaspar De Portola who arrive to the San Mateo area on October 27, 1769.

He describes they came across abandoned dwellings of indigenous peoples. When they went in to browse they were infested with fleas. So the place of the dwellings was named "Rancho De Las Pulgas (fleas)" of San Mateo. Which today is a long hilly street called "Alameda De Las Pulgas" of San Mateo. Where I went to Grammar, Middle and High School at. It is also the area where Tom Brady the quarterback grew up as he went to Catholic School Serra High School that is on on a road that branches off the street Alameda De Las Pulgas.

This archive reference in Pars website is:

http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest

ESTADO,43,N.7

pages:

bloque2_42_verso_140

bloque 2_43_verso_141

Published by MADERA_32 – Thu, 2015-01-01 22:45 | Permalink

Comment

Here are other maps I had posted earlier but I included the reference numbers so that you can just enter it in the link that is aboveit and view it directly at the source:

http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest

MP-MEXICO,487

MP-MEXICO,536

MP-MEXICO,305

http://bibliotecadigital.rah.es/dgbrah/i18n/consulta/resultados_busqued…

RAH20101000408 (reference no. for 1770 map of california)
RAH20101000068

Mineral del Favor

Published by gaby.barbosa –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello!

Have you ever heard of a rancho or pueblo called Mineral del Favor? could be in Jalisco or Michoacan,

upload
record-image_undefined (13).jpg (772.02 KB)

Comments

Mineral del Favor

Published by gaby.barbosa –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello!

Have you ever heard of a rancho or pueblo called Mineral del Favor? could be in Jalisco or Michoacan,

Vasquez de Mercado: Cuquio, Tepatitlan, Nochistlan, and Fresnillo 1600's

Published by 245luigi –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Rick responded to a post I had made in another part of the Forum; however, to prevent that post from going off topic I decided to make its own.

Rick's slightly edited post:

Comments

Published by mflores – Wed, 2018-02-07 22:16 | Permalink

Comment

Hello,
I am following their conversation about the Basques Mercado since I have ancestors with the same last name but I have not been able to place them among the information you have provided on this post.

I am including below the information of the Basques Mercado I have in my family tree in case it helps in any way with your research, or if there is any information you might have about them I would appreciate anything you could share.

A) Juan Basques Mercado (birth before 1725 – died 12/April/1762 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco) married to Anna Contreras. (I don’t know who their ancestors are)

They had 3 kids that I am aware of, listed below- The marriage certificate of each kid states that they were originally from the City of Zacatecas and that they moved to Jalostotitlan around 1749 or 1750):

1) Maria Guadalupe Basques Mercado (born before 1738) married on 11/Jan/1753 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco to Joseph Sanches (Son of Manuel Sanches and Theresa de Saavedra)
Witnesses: Pedro Gomez, Joseph Gomez, Joseph Placencia
Godparents: Joseph Gonzalez, Anna Munoz

2) Joaquin Basques Mercado (born before 1739) married on 03/Feb/1754 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco to Anna Xaviera de Mendoza (widow de Guillermo Flores)
Witnesses: Miguel Perez, Joseph Antonio Placencia, Jacinto Casimiro
Godparents: Diego de la Mora, Ignes Mercado

3) Jose Ramon Basques Mercado (born before 1740) married on 22/Nov/1756 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco to Maria Silveria Alvarez de la Cruz (daughter of Juan Manuel Alvarez de la Cruz and Feliciana de Anda). I descended from this couple.
Witnesses: Joseph Placencia, Joaquin Mercado, Julian Jimenez
Godparents: Joseph Antonio Mercado, Maria Guadalupe Mercado

Another ancestor of this last name is:
B) Maria Mercado (b. 1700-30/Aug/1735 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) married on 15/Feb/1722 in Nochistlan to Nicolas de Loza Hermosillo born 29/Sep/1699 in Jalostotitlan (son of Joseph de Loza and Josefa de Hermosillo)
As per some online websites, this Maria Mercado is listed as the daughter of Juan Bacilio Onofre Basques de Mercado and Ynes Rangel de Acuna but I have not seen any documentation for this yet.

This couple had at least the following kids:
1) Estefana Maria Loza Mercado 19/Jan/1724 (Godparents: Christobal Mercado)
2) Juana Loza Mercado 15/June/1725 (Godparents: Joseph Mercado and Epifania? Sandoval)
3) Joseph Patricio Loza Mercado 30/Mar/1727 (Godparents: Juan Mercado and Angela de Torres)
4) Jose Isidro Loza Mercado 23/May/1728 (Godparents: Cayetano Rodriguez and Catharina de Sandoval)
5) Vicente Loza about 1729
6) Pablo Antonio Loza (b between 1730-1735)
7) Maria Leonor Loza (b between 1730-1735)

Regards,
Minerva

Comment

Alex,

I can't take credit for finding the will. Another genealogist, Salvador Cabral Valdes, is the researcher that published her will. He did not find it. He wrote that the original discoverer of the will was Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, and that he had provided a copy to genealogists Bernardo del Hoyo Calzada and Leonardo de la Torre y Berumen. He states that Leonardo de la Torre y Berumen passed on a copy to him.

Genealogist Bernardo del Hoyo Calzada provides the information that the descent is through Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado. I agree with him.

Salvador Cabral Valdes presents the line that skips the generation that includes Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado.

I am a descendant of Capitan Sancho de Renteria and Agueda del Rio through my Reynoso-Renteria line that left many descendants in Jalostotitlan and throughout Los Altos de Jalisco. Agueda del Rio wrote "soy hija legítima de Mateo del Río de la Loza y de doña Ana Vázquez de Mercado y Tapia". The Vasquez de Mercado comes from Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado, the Tapia from Gines's wife, the daughter of Bernardo Vasquez de Tapia.

The will is dated "20 días del mes de abril de mil y seiscientos y sesenta y cinco años." The will names Sebastian V. de Mercado but does not state how they are related. I found the relationship in another document dated 1642.

She named him here " Y también mando se le paguen a Sebastián de Mercado lo que pareciere por libro de cuenta que le debo".

Thanks again,
Rick

Comment

Ahh Rick I see. I wonder where these other genealogists are finding wills. It must be at the local archive rather than sources available online.

Here is a dispensa I have including a Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado son of Ana Vasquez de Mercado. Hopefully it may be of some use:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6L94-GN?i=87&wc=SSKY-MNL%3…

Tree is on image 90

Also check out dispensas 128 and 132 in the Sagrada Mitra Dispensa book

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Wed, 2017-04-05 17:34 | Permalink

Comment

Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado, son of Pedro Carillo D'avila and Maria Vassque de Mercad, takes in and raises a baby girl that s left on his "" doorstep". It is assumed that this baby girl is Sebastian's born out of wedlock. "Expuesta" is the word used. The Baby is Named Juana Vasquez de Mercado and when she Is of age, she marries a cousin. When she is married, it is acknowledged that she is family and not just adopted.

Rick A. Ricci

Published by 245luigi – Tue, 2017-04-11 19:29 | Permalink

Comment

Rick,

What you have found is some very interesting information. At this moment I do not descend from Sebastian but if a link can be found, then the connection would be made to Gines. That would be quite cool!

Alex

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Wed, 2017-04-12 17:46 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Alex,

I don't descend from Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado. i descend from his niece who mentions him in her will. She authorizes payment of her debt to him. If it hadn't been for you I wouldn't have dug deeper and found out so much information on this family. I believe that the next step in finding your ancestry is to find a will or some document naming Sebastian's children. Since my ancestor owed him money, and he was a Capitan, he most likely left some documentation of his assets and children so eventually it will turn up if we keep searching.

Thanks again,

Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Mon, 2017-04-03 11:11 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Alex,

I have discoverered how Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado, husband of Leonor Gonzalez Descends from Gines Vasquez de Mercado. more research is needed to confirm if Sebastian's grandson Juan Vasquez de Mercado is the same Juan de Mercado that is married to Ynes Rangel Acuña. Sebastian is actually named in my ancestors testament where she directs a payment to settle her debt to him. In another record he is named in a marriage record for a girl that was raised by him, "expuesta". There is a curveball to the family tree.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Rick

I have seen your updates. I will be able to respond later tonight when I can sit down and go through the info you have provided. Thank you for keeping me in the loop with your research!

Alex

Comment

Alex,

I feel fortunate to find a document dated 1624 that identifies Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado's father. There are still two issues.

The first issue is confirming that Juan Vasquez de Mercado married to Ynes Rangel Acuña is the same as juan Vasz de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval.

He second is that wo different parents are given for Sebastian's mother by two genealogists. There is even a third line given by someone here on nuestrosranchos. Both of the genealogies are possible if you look at certain dates, one seems to be more probable than the other. Both of these genealogists have done much work on genealogies specifically to Zacatecas. We may want to continue the discussion offline in order to not confuse the issue even more.

Rick

Comment

Rick,

We have the same data regarding the families of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado (Leonor Gonzalez) and Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado (Pascuala Jiminez) so we are on the same page. Both were from Zacatecas which is a lot closer to Fresnillo than Tepatitlan, Cuquio, and Nochistlan so this may be the trail!

I'm glad that you have been able to connect Sebastian to Gines, that is a very very interesting connection! I'm also very glad that this thread has caused you to go further back on your tree! Congrats!

I don't believe that Juan Vasquez de Mercado, son of Cristobal and Petrona Moscoso y Sandoval is my guy however. He was baptized in 1675.

Antonio Vasquez de Mercado (Maria Plascencia) gave his age as 48 in 1731 placing his birth in 1683. See below and the next page:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VT9K-PQ?i=138&wc=3JZV-92S%…

That would imply Juan Vasquez de Mercado (Ines Rangel de Acuna) would have been born at at the latest 1667.

Domingo Vasquez de Mercado (Teresa Plascencia) also had his first child, Miguel, in 1698, baptized in Nochistlan. That would place Domingo's birth at 1683 at the latest and Juan Vasquez de Mercado's birth (Ines Rangel de Acuna) at 1668 at the latest.

Alex

Comment

Alex,

Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado did not use his father's surname, Carillo, and he was the only one from his immediate family to use the surname Vasquez de Mercado amongst the men. The Vasquez de Mercado surname comes from his mother. Nicolas Is most likely older brother of Cristobal Antto. Vasquez de Mercado. So we are still left to wonder who are Juan's parents. But from the Pieces of the puzzle that I possess, Sebastian is either the father or grandfather. Most likely a grandfather. Sebastian is the end of the line for the males with this surname in Fresnillo. Gines 's son Bernardino inherits the family fortune and raises his family in Mexico City.

Gines's daughters inherit the less valuable property in Fresnillo which at one time was well kept up. By the time my ancestor writes her testament the property can use some fixing to restore to its original condition.

Genealogist Bernardo del Hoyo Calzada. states that Pedro Carillo's wife is Maria Mercado de Vasquez, daughter of Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado, and this is the line that makes the most sense when taking in all the information and the timelines. Others place his wife as an illegitimate daughter of Bernardo Vasquez de Tapia and his sister in law but this line is doubtful. In both cases she descends from Conquistador Bernadino Vasquez de Tapia. But one line bypasses Capitan Gines Vasquez del Mercado.

The reason that people mix up the lines is that there is marriage between very close relatives. Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado's wife is his first cousin. Licienciado Gines Vasquez de Mercado's sister is married to Bernardino Vasquez de Tapia. To top it off, Bernardino is related to Licienciado Gines Vasquez de Mercado's wife, Ines Vasquez. What happens is that people got confused as to how they are related and then screwed up the line. So Bernardo Vasquez de Tapia states that his daughter is married to Gines Vasquez de Mercado and that Gines comes from an honorable family. What he forgets to mention in this statement is how close his daughter is related to her husband since Bernardo is his uncle, besides his father-in-law. We know that Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado is the son of Pedro Carillo D'Avila (senior). If it is correct that his mother is a daughter of Capitan Gines Vazquez de Mercado then Conquistador Bernardo Vasquez de Tapia is her maternal grandfather and great uncle, and she is not his illegitimate daughter as some genealogists claim.

Genealogist Bernardo del Hoyo Calzada provided clues that I was able to jump on to get the 1624 document that clearly states the name of Sebastian Vasqquez de Mercado's father. What makes this record important is that Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado is still alive at this time.

I believe that Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado may be a son of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado since the rest of the male siblings used Carillo as the surname.

This family has interesting connections as a niece married Hernan Cortez's son, and another family member married into the Jewish Cadena family (treasurer).

I descend from the Vasquez de Mercado line through my Reynoso-Renteria line that is mainly in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

The descent that people have passed down in history was that they descended from Gines Mercado, but what was most important was not descent from Capitan Gines Vasquez Mercado, but from his father el Licienciado Gines Mercado, a very famous medical doctor in Castilla.

Thanks again!
Rick

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sun, 2017-04-02 21:31 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Alex,

I was researching the Vasquez de Mercado to help you out. As often happens, when I work on someone else's family from a nuestrosranchos member, I find out that the people that I am looking for are also my relatives. It turns out that the name of a greatgreatgrandchild of Gines Vasquez de Mercado sounded familiar so I went to my computer and looked up her name in my records. It turns out she is my ancestor. I had her info and her husbands but I did not have her ancestry. This project now has become a personal project. Having her as my ancestor will actually help in the search for your ancestor Juan Vasquez de Mercado as they would be anywhere from sibling to third cousin.

I owe you a million thanks for getting me on this project as I previously had no idea that I descended from Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado.

Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sun, 2017-04-02 20:05 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Alex,

I do have a few threads to pull. Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado did leave a at least two daughters in Zacatecas. I have their names and a spouse for each one. I believe that it is most likely we will find your ancestry though the descent of one of these daughters. I will need at least a few days, maybe weeks to pull the threads that will give us more information. I will most likely not get a chance to put in much time until next weekend. The leads do look promising as descendants of the two daughters did marry and left a trail.

Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Mon, 2017-04-03 01:58 | Permalink

Comment

Looking at the years when the different Juan Vasquez de Mercado were alive, the best fit is tha son of Cristobal Antonio Vasquez de Mercado y Gonzalez and Petrona Moscoso Sandoval y Delgadillo.

The sons of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval are born at a slightly later time frame then the time frame for the Juan Vasquez de Mercado married to Ynes Rangel de Acuña.

From the reading of the dispensation there is a second "parentesco" through the Mercado line also because of the Moscoso Sandoval y Delgadillo line so I do believe that Juan Vasquez de Mercado that married to Ynes Rangel de Acuña is the son of Christobal Antonio Vasquez de Mercado and Petrona Moscoso Sandoval.

Hernando Vasquez de Mercado y Jimenez and Maria Josepha Moscoso Sandoval are the parents of:

1) Diego Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap.14/Dec/1678)

2) Pasquala Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandobal (bap.17/Oct/1781)

3) Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap. 20/Feb/1684)

4) Simon Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap. 15/Jan/1690)

5) Joseph Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap.9/May/1694)

All five siblings were baptized in Nochistlan, Zacatecas.

It turns out that Hernando Vasquez de Mercado and Christoval Antonio Vasquez de Mercado are not brothers as I had suspected. Christoval Antonio Vasquez de Mercado is the son of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado and Leonor Gonzalez. We are getting closer and closer to Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado (d. Before 27/May/1675) and Leonor Gonzalez are the parents of Cristobal Antonio Vasquez de Mercado y Gonzalez. Cristobal and Petrona's marriage record name their parents and state that Leonor Gonzalez is a widow of Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH6F?i=223&wc=3P9N-HZ3%3A1…

Cristobal Antonio Vasquez de Mercado y Gonzalez (d. 22/July/1721, Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Petrona Moscoso Sandoval are the parents of:

1) Christoval Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval

2) Juan Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap. 26/Dec1675)

3) Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval

4) Jacinto Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandobal (bap. 15/Feb/1682)

5) Leonor Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap. 26/Apr/1684)

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Rick, in your string of notes you mention:

5) Joseph Vasquez de Mercado y Moscoso Sandoval (bap.9/May/1694)

Do you have any more information on him? I'm trying to determine if there's a link to my tree and I'm particularly interested in who he may have married.

Thanks

Raul

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sun, 2017-04-02 01:40 | Permalink

Comment

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH5R-1?mode=g&cc=1804458
Fernando Basquez Mercado & Josepha De Moscoso Y Sandobal
Pg28-36

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D2D3-Y?i=407&wc=12512705&c…
Juan Ygnacio Vasquez de Mercado (son of Domingo Mercado and Ma.Theresa Plasencia) married Josepha Gutierrez de Hermosillo.
Josepha Was also a descendant of Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal)

Maria Theresa Plasencia descends from Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal) and that is one reason that they needed a dispensation, but there is a second relationship that needs that there is a dispensation so I believe that Domingo also descends from Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal).

Josepha Gutierrez de Hermosillo is the daughter of Joseph Gutierrez de Hermosillo and Mariana Delgadillo. Mariana Delgadillo is the daughter of Luis Delgadillo and Josepha de Islas. Luis Delgadillo is the son of Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal).

Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2017-04-01 12:55 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Alex,

I am not ignoring your request. I did some more research on the Vasquez Mercado family and have come up with possible parents to your Juan. Unfortunately, his middle name is not Bonifacio or Onofre. I would like to look at the dispensations to see How the names are written. Can you send me a link or information to how to get those dispensas?

We do know that his line descends from Capitan Gines Vasquez de Mercado. The family stressed that they descended from him. It was a great honor to descend from him so the family and others would not forget. But Gines's son goes to Mexico City so it seems that the Vasquez de Mercado line continued in Zacatecas with one of the three daughters of Gines. The Vasquez de Mercado family that I am researching may only lead to a grandson or great grandson of Gines unless we can find more information on his daughters.

It is interesting how this family hooks up with some other families from Zacatecas that I have studied.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Rick,

Any info you can provide would be great. I would be happy to provide my sources. The only contemporary source I have for the parents of these siblings is the cited marriage record from the original post. This is also the only source I know of giving Ines Rangel de Acuna's name:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K79G-JK?mode=g&i=78&wc=3JD…

The remainder of my sources are dispensas. The majority of the dispensa's give the name Juan. Here is the links to the dispensas were the pertinent info is:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X7LQ-7?mode=g&i=224&wc=SS2…

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6KCC-K?mode=g&i=1107&wc=SS…

Here are two dispensas with the name Juan Bacilio:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6P3N-DM?mode=g&i=739&cc=18…

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6P3H-4N?mode=g&i=800&wc=SS…

And one dispensa with the name Onofre:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6Y9R-F1?i=680&wc=3J4Q-168%…

Let me know if additional sources on the descendants are needed. These are all of the sources I have for Juan Vasquez de Mercado and Ines Rangel de Acuna. Thank you for any assistance that anyone can provide.

Alex

Comment

Dear Alex,

I think I found something, but it may be just wishful thinking on my part. If I just tell you then you may end up seeing what I may just be imagining. Take another look at the first link that you sent me. The name is Jn with a raised o meaning Juan or as it is sometimes written in those times Johan. But just before the Surname Mercado there is a scribbling. The scribbling is not V for Vasquez. I think I figured out the scribbling but want you to look at it before I tell what I think it says. If we agree on the scribbling then I can tell you who I believe his parents are.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Rick,

I am interested in your thoughts; however, I see Ju* de Mercado where * is a raised "o", for both father and son.

I've been attemping to follow the Gines Vasquez de Mercado leads. I havent found the daughters but I found the son Bernardino Vasquez de Mercado which had a son named Gines as well. It appears this Gines had some children in Mexico City.

Alex

Comment

Dear Alex,
I don't see "de". The "de" that he writes in other places is different. Please take another look. If you still think it is de then I am just wishing that it is another abbreviation.

The furthest that I have gone back on the Vasquez Mercado family in Zacatecas is Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado married to Pasquala Jimenez. Nicolas and Pasquala are the parents of Hernando Vasquez de Mercado y Ximenez.

Hernando Vasquez de Mercado is married to Maria Josepha Moscoso de Sandoval y Delgadilo. (Daughter of Diego de Moscoso Sandoval and Maria Josepha Delgadillo)

Petrona Moscoso Sandoval, also a daughter of Diego Moscoso Sandoval and Maria Josepha Delgadillo, married Cristoval Antonio Vasquez de Mercado.
I believe that two brothers married two sisters and that Christoval Antonio Vasquez de Mercado is also a son of Nicolas. More research is needed to confirm this.

Cristoval Antonio Vasquez and Petrona Vasquez de Mercado are the parents of at least five children. One of them is named Juan Vasquez de Mercado. Another is named Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado.

Sebastian Vasquez de Mercado and Maria Torres are the parents of Juan Christoval Vasquez de Mercado (aka. Jn* Ct* Mercado). ( * stands for a raised o)

Diego Moscoso Sandoval is the son of Juan de Moscoso Sandoval and Catalina Cortez (daughter of Geronima Benavides)

Maria Josepha Delgadillo is the daughter of Luis Delgadillo ( Perez de Frias) and Melchora de Los Reyes. (Carbajal)

Hernando Vasquez de Mercado
Spouse's Name Ma.Josepha Moscoso Sandobal
Event Date 10 Mar 1678
Event Place Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Father's Name Nicolas Vasquez de Mercado
Mother's Name Pascuala Ximenes
Spouse's Father's Name Diego de Moscoso Sandoval
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Josepha Delgadillo
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZXD-1DJ : 16 July 2015), Pascuala Ximenes in entry for Hernando Basques and Josepha De Moscosso Sanndobal, 10 Mar 1678; citing Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 226,724.

Rick A. Ricci

1651 Padron of Nochistlan. Where is it?

Published by 245luigi –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have both of Sergio Gutierrez's books "Los Altos de Jalisco" Vol I & II. Vol I contains a census for Nochistlan in 1649 and Vol II has on for Nochistlan in 1664.

Comments

Datos sobre Joseph Nicolás de Aceves y Ma. Gertrudis Navarro

Published by ElCapitanPaco –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hay alguien por ahí en NR que sepa quienes son los padres de Joseph Nicolás de Aceves y Ma. Gertrudis Navarro .

Comments

Opinions on sites to do your family tree in

Published by gaby.barbosa –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have all my family tree info in Family search, since it was the first site I used when I started working on my tree last year.

Comments

Published by Ignacio – Wed, 2019-09-11 12:30 | Permalink

Comment

I have Ancestry and it's very good, it's free and you can have it private to I have Barbosas in my family my 8th grandparents were Diego Antonio De Barbosa
1662–1715 Cocula Jalisco and Juana De Partida take care dear it's very nice to share

Published by isloera – Fri, 2019-07-12 22:27 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Gaby, since the beginning, I decided to use genealogy software on my computer. I've been using Rootsmagic for six years and I love it. You can try their free software here

http://rootsmagic.com/Essentials/

, which is a stripped down version of the full version, but it has all the basics , so you can see if you like it. If you want to get the full version, is only 29.95 dollars.

I do all my data entry, pictures, documents, etc on my PC, then I publish it online using TNG which is software that runs on a website
http://www.tngsitebuilding.com/
it's only 32.99

Using Rootsmagic, I export my tree. It generates a gedcom file which I upload to my TNG website, then using Filezilla, I upload all the new media, and that's it.

Published by Esther Hernand… – Fri, 2019-06-21 18:22 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Gaby,

I have also wondered what the more experienced genealogists use. I started with Ancestry because it was easier to add information, add attachments and make changes but it did get expensive to keep and I saw myself searching for documents on family search. So I cancelled my subscription with them. Now I keep it on family search but it’s not your private family tree and anyone can make changes to it. I have noticed I lost people’s names I added. I would love to see what the more experienced people use. Hopefully someone will share with us what they use.

Thanks
Esther

Comment

For a time I did use it, yes. When I first started out a few years ago I wasn’t very organized or focused. I would research multiple lines at once and get lost, and my research was spread out across many pages of handwritten notes in manila folders, Excel files, folders of downloaded digital scans on multiple USB drives, emails, web browser bookmarks, and photocopies of texts and documents. It got to be overwhelming.

I considered building my family tree online, but just like you I wanted a great degree of control over it. I looked at various family history products before settling on RootsMagic. It was very affordable and it contained tools for analyzing my findings and for producing various types of reports and charts. At that time it was exactly what I needed to help me get organized and to make sense of my work, especially once I began working on the family trees of others. These days I don't rely on it so much, unless I start a new family history project.

I hope this helps and that you find the solution you’re looking for.

Comment

oh my gosh that is great information and thank you for recommending it and sharing. Some of the things you mention sound like me and I’m all over the place because I’m so excited but I need to learn to focus on one family. That was great advise for us beginners. I down loaded it and it already looks easy friendly.

Many thanks,

Esther

Testamentos in XVIII century

Published by gaby.barbosa –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Dear prim@s:

I have seen records of wills on Family Search for Jalisco, but I am wondering if there is an index somewhere, or anyone has done any work on these? let's say if a death records shows that the person left a will, what are the chances of finding it? and if so, which resources could I use to do so?

Thank you in advance

Gaby B.

Comments

Published by ssales1984 – Sun, 2019-08-11 09:24 | Permalink

Comment

Unfortunately there is not an index that I am aware of. They are great sources and at some point, it would be great if we could put a group together to index them the way we've done with Guadalajara Dispensas and Valladolid Dispensas. Same can be said for the Archivo de Instrumentos Publicos, that stores the information about land ownership. Most of it is now online, but not yet indexed. Actually, that one does have an index, found here: Film # 007984423

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-534Y-9?i=11&cat=2…

but the index does not correspond with familysearch microfilm numbers or order at all. It will give you an idea for who is in the documents though.

Hope this helps!

Sergio Salés

Comment

I noticed that on that index after the Libros it continues with Legajos en then it goes into multiple books at once which is really confusing. Also, some of the films in Tierras y aguas say legajos sueltos and they're not in the index. Do you know what to make of that?

Comment

Hi,

I worked on index that you mentioned (FIL# 269867) so far I have the following films identified:
FILM # VOLUME #
277579 VOL 1
270080 VOL 2
277581 VOL 3
277582 VOL 4
277583 VOL 5
277584 VOL 6
277585 VOL 7
277586 VOL 8
277587 VOL 9
277588 VOL 10
277590 VOL 12
277591 VOL 13
277592 VOL 14

I hope this helps

Sus L

SIERRA DE PINOS - Francisco de Cardona y Magdalena de Caravajal

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola prim@s,

Comments

Published by sarod77 – Thu, 2018-01-18 10:30 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you for your information it help decipher this problem for me. The marriage record (1st record top right) at its ending adds este Juan de Contreras and then Leonor Mojica, I thought maybe they were padrinos and just left it at that until your information. I took a second look and it was vi udo {de} Leonor Mojica.

Juan de Cardona (vuido de peres Mojica)
1620–Deceased • L5TG-P2Q
Teresa de Contreras
1654–Deceased • LTWG-8PX
Marriage: 8 May 1672
Sagrario, San Luis Potosi, San Luis Potosi, Mexico

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GLC-3V3

Comment

Hi Sarod,

You are correct. And I just noticed that I neglected to include his second marriage to Teresa de Contreras, 8 May 1672 in Sagrario, SLP. Thank you for sharing.

Leonor Perez de Mojica was daughter of Hernan Perez de Mojica and Maria de Ortega, and granddaughter of Juan Diaz de Leon El Viejo cc Francisca de Ortega. She was widow of Baltasar de Armas, who she married 9 Feb 1644, in Pinos.

Also, before he married Leonor Mojica, Juan de Cardona had an illegitimate son named Diego Zapata, who petitioned marriage with Beatriz Rodriguez Soto on 5 Jul 1660, in San Matias, Pinos.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Manny do you have the 1594 Marriage of Juan de Armas and LEonor de Cardona?

Danny C. Alonso

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Fri, 2018-01-19 17:56 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Danny,

En beinte y tres de otubre de mil y quᵒˢ y nobenta y quatro años (…) despose y di las bendiciones nunpciales en la ermita de Nra Señora de Monserate a Joan darmas rresidente en el pueblo de Tezontepeque natural de las Yslas de Canaria hijo de Andres Garcia y de Leonor de Armas naturales de la dicha ysla con Leonor de Cardona hija de Franco Rramon de Cardona y de Leonor de Viguellas vzᵒˢ desta ciudad siendo tᵒˢ Francᵒ Enriqz y Joan Alvares y Joan de la Cruz y Bartolome de Salinas.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-DX9Q-5?i=338&wc=3P8Q-6…

Happy New Year to you!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Mon, 2018-02-05 18:58 | Permalink

Comment

Hola prim@s,

I need to backtrack here. I can’t find in my notes where I have it verified that Francisco de Cardona was the son of Francisco Ramon de Cardona and Leonor de Villegas. My linking him to them might still be premature, and conjecture, based on coinciding names & surnames, locations and timelines. If anyone does have proof of this connection, please share!

I don’t descend from these lines, but during my research, I have found plenty of bits and pieces of information on members of these families, since they were compadres of my ancestors. I started putting these pieces together, and saw some possible links, and came out with the pedigree that I gave earlier in this thread. I am sorry that I jumped the gun, and presented what I had found as documented fact, but there are still some pieces missing. I thought I’d throw what I do have out there, to show how I came about this proposed pedigree, for those of you who do descend from them, so you can at least have some leads.

FRANCISCO DE CARDONA & LEONOR DE ARMAS

What I do have confirmed, is that there is a familiar link between Francisco de Cardona cc Magdalena de Caravajal, and Leonor de Armas, aka Leonor de Cardona, who was married to Pedro de Vargas Moriano. This is established in the 15 Apr 1656 IM of the latter’s daughter, Ana de Vargas Moriano, to Nicolas de Castañeda y Sotomayor. The first witness presented was Miguel de Cardona, age 34, who was son of Francisco de Cardona and Madalena de Caravajal. He calls the bride “his niece,” and refers to himself as “her uncle.” The common surname is "Cardona," and the connection would be through the bride’s mother, Leonor de Armas aka Cardona, who was either his sister, his aunt, or his cousin.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B716-G?i=180&wc=3PS9-W…

JUAN DE ARMAS & LEONOR DE LA VEGA

In his entry for Juan de Armas, on p. 47 of his “Diccionario Biografico,” RMB mentions Juan de Armas’ 1616 marriage to Leonor de la Vega Cortés, and the 25 Jun 1618 baptism of their daughter, Leonor de Armas. And then, in a footnote, he says that daughter Leonor was married to Pedro de Vargas Moriano, and how in some documents, she and her mother are called “Leonor de Cardona.” I don't agree that Leonor de Armas, baptized in June 1618, is the same who married Pedro de Vargas, and I'll explain why in the next paragraph, but make note of what he says, about how she and her mother were both called "Leonor de Cardona."

LEONOR DE ARMAS Y CARDONA & PEDRO DE VARGAS

According to the San Matias Pinos parish archives, Pedro de Vargas and Leonor de Armas confirmed their daughter, Maria de Vargas, on, on 26 Jan 1627. Her compadre was Francisco de Çapata.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BK3K-H?i=15&wc=3PS3-HZ7
On 22 Oct 1629, baptized was Francisco, hijo de Francisco de Cardona y de Madalena de Caravajal. Padrinos were Pedro de Vargas y Leonor de CARDONA su mujer.

If Leonor de Armas y Cardona was baptized in Jun 1618, she would’ve been 8 1/2 years-old when her daughter was confirmed, and 11 years-old (and already married), when a madrina in 1629. Not likely. To be the mother of the girl confirmed on 26 Jan 1627, she had to be born well before 1613, in which case, she is not the same Leonor de Armas, baptized in Jun 1618. She could’ve been an earlier daughter - it wasn’t unusual for parents to give the same name to 2 living children. But Juan de Armas and Leonor de la Vega didn’t marry until 1616; previous to that, Leonor de la Vega was married to Juan Tamayo. So, either Leonor de Armas aka Cardona is not the daughter of Juan de Armas, or she's his daughter from an earlier marriage, possible with a woman surnamed "Cardona."

JUAN DE ARMAS & LEONOR DE CARDONA

On a whim, I ran a quick search at FamilySearch and WHAM! There’s Juan “Darmas,” marrying Leonor de Cardona on 23 Oct 1594, in Mexico City. Daughter of Francisco Ramon de Cardona and Leonor de Villegas.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-DX9Q-5?i=338&wc=3P8Q-6…

My head spun! What if?? Is this the same Juan de Armas?? If it is, then, there she is: the mother of Leonor de Armas, aka Leonor de Cardona, and her name is Leonor de Cardona! And there's the Francisco de Cardona connection: he's her brother! Thus, his son, Miguel de Cardona, would be 1st-cousin of her daughter, Leonor de Armas, and 1st-cousin/once removed of her daughter, Ana de Vargas Moriano. In the parlance of the era, Miguel de Cardona could have called Ana de Vargas Moriano his “niece.”

JUAN DE ARMAS & FRANCISCO DE CARDONA

RMB has both of these men as early residents of SLP. As mentioned, I found them both, on 3 Mar 1597, buying 28 mules from Alonso Jimenez, so we know that the 2 men had contact.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-SZN1?i=52&wc=MXBY…

As I read this bill of sale for the first time, I could see the pieces all falling into into place: Juan de Armas and Leonor de Cardona marry in 1594, then move to SLP before 1597, accompanied by her brother, Francisco de Cardona. The 2 men go into business together, and invest in pack mules. Sometime before 1616, Leonor de Cardona dies, and Juan de Armas marries Leonor de la Vega en 2os.

Like I said, this is speculation. The testamento of Juan de Armas or Francisco de Cardona should clarify it.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

I found the source for this relationship, in the extracts that Mary Lou Montagna did during her visits to Pinos, Zac, in the 1990’s:

"Francº de Cardona natˡ de la ciudad de Mexico hijo lexᵐº de Francº Ramon de Cardona y Leonor de Villegas casado que fue con Magda de Carabajal Testo Fueron sus albaseas Jů de Cardona y Miguel de Cardona sus hijos y Magda de Carabajal"

Redeemed!!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Hola isloera,
I found Francisco de Cardona’s burial record among the extractions that Mary Lou Montagna did from the books at San Matias, Pinos. She scanned all of her notes to PDF, and uploaded them to her dropbox, which can be accessed here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comment

Thank you so much for your reply! Could you point me to the right folder or document?, there are many. Excuse my ignorance, I've seen Mary Lou Montagna mentioned repeatedly, but I can't find any information about her. She's clearly a very important genealogist and researcher.

Published by R.A.Ricci – Sat, 2018-01-06 11:35 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Manny,
I enjoyed reading your essay. It was a nice gift to receive on Día De los Reyes.
Thank you for sharing your work. It is greatly appreciated.

Happy New Year,
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Hola a los dos:

En los registros de ésta familia aparecen dos Magdalenas de Caravajal, en los registros de Familysearch aparece sólo una, que podría ser la mayor, pero de momento no hay forma de asegurar que pertenezca a ésta línea familiar.

"México, Distrito Federal, registros parroquiales y diocesanos, 1514-1970", database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJ8B-MS7M : 28 July 2015), Madalena de Caravajal de la Torre, 1553.

En el Siglo XVI había dos ramas de ésta familia en la Ciudad de México:

1. Los descendientes del conquistador Antonio de Carvajal, originarios de Zamora, que vivían en la calle de San Francisco, los cuales se extendieron hacia Michoacán y el Occidente de México.

2. Los descendientes del conquistador Juan de Carvajal "El Viejo", posiblemente originarios de Zamora y relacionados con los anteriores, que vivían también en la calle de San Francisco en la ciudad de México, pero las tierras las recibieron en Tulancingo, ésta familia se dedicó a la minería y se extendió por los estados de Hidalgo y Guanajuato.

En contraste la rama de los descendientes de Juan de Limpias Carvajal vivían en Puebla y tenían las tierras en Oaxaca, luego pasaron a Querétaro. En tanto que los Caravajal de Nochistlán, Zacatecas proceden de la rama de Cáceres, su genelogía está en Geneanet en el árbol de sathazagthot, donde aparecen los ascendientes de Rodrigo Carvajal Ulloa.

Saludos

Marcelina

MORE "LOST" SAN MATIAS SIERRA DE PINOS

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola prim@s,

Comments

Published by superhorrible – Tue, 2019-09-03 20:38 | Permalink

Comment

Manny,
Thank you so much for the information. I have 2 lines in Sierra de Pinos.
I'm a little confuse. The PDF that was summited to the group a few days ago (the index), some of the records in this index are in film 221879 (from Lagos). Am i right??

Thank you so much again. I truly appreciate all your work in this area

saludos

susana L

Comment

Hola Susana,
They are entirely different books. As far as I can tell, none of the baptism nor marriage entries are duplicates. I’m not sure about the confirmations, since there are so many, but I doubt if they are. And no burial records appear among the records I indexed, so the ones on 221879 are unindexed.
Which families do you descend from?
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comment

Hola Manny,

Thank you so much for the information about Sierra de Pinos.
Now regarding my lines, so far I have in Sierra de Pinos:

1. Pedro de Salas married with Juana de Bonilla

2. Marcos Gregorio Guillen married with Maria Simona Bacilia (indians or mulatos not sure yet the Hacienda el Pedregozo) around 1750

3. Eleuterio de Jesus Zacarias married with Eusebia de Rosa casilda (also indians or mulatos not sure yet from Hacienda El Lobo) around 1750

Aas you can imagine line #2 and #3 are the difficult ones. I believe those records you just found will be very helpful.

Thank you again

sus

Comment

Hola Susana,

You’re welcome, re: the indexing and all.

Here’s what I have on Pedro de Salas and Juana de Bonilla. According to Jaime Holcombe in his Letters (p 185), they were from Ciudad de Zacatecas. I have them first appearing in Pinos in Feb 1645, when one of their criados baptized a child. They were living on the Estancia de Santa Cruz, which he’s named as the owner of in a wedding in May 1645 (Santa Cruz was owned previously by Padre Pedro Lazaro, the vicar of San Matias Pinos, who inherited it from his sister, Leonor Xuarez).

The children of Pedro de Salas and Juana de Bonilla are:

1. Catalina de Salas, b. Zacatecas, Zac; m. Andres Ramirez de Cueva (from Lagos), im 03 Nov 1650, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
2. Matiana de Salas Bonilla, b. 10 Oct 1645, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
3. Nicolas de Salas Bonilla, b. 01 Jan 1654, San Matias, Pinos, Zac
4. Juana de Salas Bonilla, b. 11 Dec 1653, San Matias, Pinos, Zac

There were probably more, seeing how there is a gap between 1645 & 1654 - you might want to check in Sagrario, San Luis Potosi. Which of their children do you descend from? I’ll keep my eyes open.

As you mentioned, couples 2 & 3 will be more difficult, since they were either Indios or Mulatos. If they lived in the mid-1700’s, I’m not sure if you’ll locate them in the indexes nor in the Lagos book, since those are early 1600’s. Pedregozo - I don’t recall seeing that hacienda in the early records, so I think it was founded later, maybe after 1700. I’d recommend that you keep searching in San Matias, Pinos; search the IM’s and the burials. If #3 lived on El Lobo, keep searching in San Matias, Pinos, and maybe in Asientos, Ags, since it was close by.

I hope that helps!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comment

Manny,

Thank you so much for the information about Pedro de Salas. I have the following children
1. Catalina (same information that you have)

2. Joseph Vicente de Salas marriage information 25 jan 1663 Marina de Zabala, San Matias, Pinos, Zac

3. I didn't have a Matiana or Nicolas or Juana. Thank you! Where are those records? I looked I could't find a microfilm or in the photocopies from Mary Lou? Are those in lagos?

4. Maria de Salas wife of Pedro del Muro. They emmigrated to Parral Chihuahua (when the mines were opening there, MIna de San Francisco). They had children there Pedro del Muro (21 feb 1637) and Juan del Muro Salas (15 sept 1638). Maria de Salas died shortly after Pedro del Muro (29 sept 1639) leaving at 3 children orphans (I just have 2 , I dont know the name of the third one but the 3 of them were minors, I'm sure very small). This is the line I come from. All the information from this line is in ARCHIVO SAN JOSE HIDALGO DEL PARRAL, cHIHUAHUA. I found the court document signed by Pedro de Salas in 1640. He said he was living in Aguascalientes.

5. Clerigo Juan de Salas. He went to pick up the children from Maria, with a letter from Pedro de Salas (the grandfather). I would love to find more information about Juan de Salas (orden sacerdotal).

As you can see this line is very interesting.
Please keep me posted if you find anything else.

saludos y gracias

sus leniski

Balcorta

Published by stephtrl –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi my name is Stephanie Mendoza-Terrell,

Comments

Published by R.A.Ricci – Thu, 2019-09-05 17:56 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Stephanie,

Subject:
Jacinta Balcorta Martz.

Baptized 28 Aug 1870

EL SAGRARIO OR SANTO DOMINGO,ZACATECAS,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Image page #200

Source Image link: https://familysearch.org/das/v2/3:1:939J-64SZ-4G/dist.jpg?ctx=CrxCtxPub…

Parents: Francisco Balcorta ad Rosalia Martinez (Martz)

Paternal grandparents: Rafael Balcorte and Maria Refugio Marcario

Rafael Balcorte’s parents are Juan Bautista Balcorte and Maria De La Luz Garcia (This couple is from San Luis Potosí)

Juan Bautista (Baptista) is the son of José Matias Balcorta and Juana Petra B.?
Maria De La Luz Garcia is the daughter of Jose Eusebio Garcia and Maria Josefa Delgado (Gil?)

Maria Refugio Marcario is the daughter of, depending on the record, (1) Gregorio Marcario and Apolonia Lopez, or (2) Apolonio Marcario and Gregoria Lopez.

Maternal grandparents: Susano (Luciano?) Martinez And Brígida Ruiz? Rivas?

////////////////////

Pablo Sanchez Tinajero

Baptized 12 Jun 1869

FRESNILLO DE GONZALEZ ECHEVERRIA,ZACATECAS,MEXICO

Parents: Dario Sanchez Carillo and Elena Tinajero Soriano

Family tree link:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LTFG-VQM

Through Pedro you descend from Lope Ruiz De Esparza and Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma (descent from Moctezuma II). I have done much work on this line.

I couldn’t find a marriage record.

Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Thank you so much. I do know of Francisco Balcorta and Rosalia Martinez, however the dates are a little off. My grandmothers (Jacinta's daughter) birth certificate and a 1910 census states that Jacinta Balcorta was born in approximately 1874. Do you think they may have gotten the dates wrong? I do think that is her family but I've never been sure.
Do you have any other information about Jacinta? maybe a death certificate? I found 4 birth certificates for children she had in California with Pablo Sanchez.
Pablo Sanchez remarried in 1914 to Cornelia Samaniego. As far as I know Cornelia was his cousin.
I am going to research all the names you gave me. I appreciate your help.
Stephanie

Comment

The clues that I followed were the records of the children and grandchildren so the information that I posted is correct. It is common for there to be a small discrepancy in dates when records are “approximate”.

Rick A. Ricci

Subscribe to