Hola, mi apellido es Estrada y quisiera investigar un poco mas sobre mi ancestros directos.
Francisco Ibarra y Cathalina Díaz Mondragón
Buenas noches, compañeros.
Buen Dia. La referencia sobre Antonio de Plasencia esta dentro de los autos de la Capellanía de María de Mondragón. Hermana de Ana de Ybarra que fue esposa Antonio de Plasencia. Sin embargo que no se mencione algun Antonio entre los Hijos de pedro de Plasencia u otros.
La referencia dice que Nicolás Marcelo de Sordia es Bisnieto de Antonio de Plasencia y Anna de Ibarra, referencia que aparece repetidas veces en el documento.
Saludos.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6DSX-9V?i=381&wc=3J4M-…
Thank you for showing me where he was mentioned. I think the dispensa I mentioned in the latest post in this thread
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18788
pertains to the relationship of Antonio Plascencia with the siblings. Of course it is not expressly stated, but I think it is the possible 3rd degree connection
Gracias primo Francisco por compartir estos documentos sobre la capellania y los testamentos.
Solamente tengo dos observaciones:
- primero, el nombre del marido de María de Mondragón parece ser Lucas y no Marcos.
- segundo, el bachiller Jose de Moya es el hijo de Catalina Diaz de Ibarra y no el hermano de su marido Juan de Moya sino su hijo. Así que el capitán Juan de Moya de las Cabras fue el esposo de Catalina Diaz de Ibarra y yerno de Francisco de Ibarra y Catalina Diaz de Mondragón. Esto queda claro con la identificación de los hermanos Bartolome de Moya y Jacinto Rafael de Moya como sus sobrinos. Estos fueron hijos de otro Bartolome de Moya (declarado también como hermano del bachiller José varias veces) y Aurelia de Mendoza.
¿Ya he compartido el padrón de Chapala dónde parece Catalina Díaz de Mondragón?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9KM-HVD8?i=816&cat=23…
No estoy convencido de la datación que tiene este padrón, pero tal vez tú tendrás una idea de cuando se asentó.
Espero que sea de ayuda!
Alex and Francisco, I also discuss the dispensa you mentioned together with another in this post:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18788#comment-33608
These suggest then that Antonio de Plasencia was a brother of Pedro de Plasencia, not his son.
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Richard
Richard Buenas tardes , Un gusto saludarte. Tienes razón en las dos observaciones que me hiciste, efectivamente el esposo de María de Mondragón es Lucas y No Marcos. Lucas Subia Pacheco su segundo marido. En el caso de Juan de moya de las cabras. Es el Padre del Bachiller Joseph de moya, e hijo de Cathalina Díaz. Esto me queda claro ahora y apoyada en los autos para obtener como propietario la capellania que fundo doña Luisa de Alcaraz y tenia su tío Joseph de Moya, en el que declara Bartholome de Moya su padre ser Hermano del bachiller Joseph de Moya.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-68NN-X?i=280&cc=187459…
tuve la confusión por tener Bartolome de Moya otro hermano llamado Joseph Isidro casado con Josepha Oribe ortiz, me hizo pensar que no podía tener otro hermano Joseph.
partida de bautismo de Joseph isidro Moya.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-V5X2-X?i=91&cc=1874591…
pienso que el padron debe estar levantado alrededor de 1655.
Por que esta como cabeza de Familia doña Cathalina Diaz, conciderando que ella murio en 1659. ademas mi 9° abuelo Martin de Ibarra aun aparece soltero y creo por calculo sencillo de las generalicones devio casarse por el año 1560.
anexo: Sobre adjudicacion a Don antonio Tiburcio Ruiz de Velasco de la hacienda de San Nicolás de Buenavista y los herederos de Catharina de Moya contra él.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6D3S-WY?i=386&wc=3J4M-…
Un gusto.
Hi, I came across this passage from a book I was reading on Google digital. It seems Juan De Moya was killed along with General Martin Verdin in Tecolotlan in 1677. His children were born in the area so it makes sense. Does anyone have any information regarding the battle or the deaths?
En Guadalajara; y en tepic ensuvo como juez de canadas. Mestas y registros “de esta banda y verada del rio Grande”, ademas de juez pesquisdor y alcade de la Santa Hermandad. La otra lineaPonce de sangre para La estirpe Ahumada fue brillante product del matrimoniocelebrado por el Capitan Ponce en 1638, con Dona Juana De Avalos Bocanegra, descendiente por lo Segundo del comendador Don Leonel Cervantes y del Capitan, visitador. Fundador, y encomendero don Juan de Villasenor y orosco; y en doble linea, de los Avalos Saavedra primos de Hernan Cortes; su jija dona Maria Verdugo y Ponce, al enviudar en 1677 del General Martin Verdin de Alcazar, que se batio en Tecolotlan con don Juan De Moya muriendo ambos. Caso con el capitan Antonio de la Hoz y Salamanca, y procrearon un solo hijo: don Antonio de la Hoz y Ponce, el cual a su tiempo y como intuyendo a don Juan Tenorio, pero casandose, sacaria del convent de Santa Maria de Garcia en Guadalajara.
Jesus.
El gen.l D. Martin berdin de alcazar y don ju.° de moya, se mataron, a dos de mayo de dos carabinassos, no confessaron q. fue todo en un instante, cosa que senti en mi alma y llevaron el cuerpo de D. martin al P° de Autlan onde se enterro, y el cuerpo de D. Ju.° de moya se enterro en esta prov.a i Yg.a a tres de mayo , y se le dijo una missa de cuerpo press.te, y por v.d lo firme.
fray Juan de Coca.
Digo q. es de advertir q. este caballero D. Juan de moya era pobriss.° y las alajas q. tenia eran todas biejas como se verán y se le dio avito y sera … y missa de cuerpo press.te.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-59HC-X?i=21&cc=1874591…
Al parecer se trata de dos Personas distintas por los datos que se describen.
Lo que hay que decir, que Juan de Moya era capitán , es decir hombre de armas, y este murió de cierto antes de 1680 , puesto que en el padrón de Chapala de 1680 se encuentra doña catalina Diaz con la calidad de viuda en compañía de sus hijos.
saludos.
Primo Francisco, es verdaderamente un placer. Le agradezco de nuevo las aportaciones sobre la datación del padrón y los documentos relativos a la hacienda San Nicolas de Buenavista.
Me interesaría saber más sobre el capt. Juan de Moya de las Cabras. La única referencia que encontré en Google fue a esta citación:
https://books.google.com/books?id=KcIqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA330&lpg=PA330&dq=%2…
También tengo a Francisco Ibarra y Tomasina Velasquez fiados por el mercader Baltazar de Plasencia en los protocolos notariales de Guadalajara:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-D3YK-Q?cat=198356
Igualmente a Martin de Ibarra vecino de Chapala en 1656 como deudor a Agustín de Gamboa.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q9PX-M?cat=35680
Últimamente, tengo a un Francisco de Ibarra "vecino de Chapala en la provincia de Ávalos" comprando una esclava a Luis de Amezquita en 1627. ¿Seguramente es el mismo casado con Catalina Diaz Mondragón?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69LK-1?i=169&cat=…
Lo demás que tengo en este momento creo que ya lo he compartido, pero periódicamente iré compartiendo lo que encuentro.
Saludos cordiales!
Richard
Buen dia Richard. Un gusto comunicarme y agradecer tu valiosa ayuda.
efectivamente Francisco de Ybarra casado con Tomasina Velasquez es el hijo de Francisco de Ybarra y Cathalina Diaz.
en el documento dice que era vecino de Guadalajara. Juan Díaz afirmó que Francisco Ibarra murió en "Valle de banderas."
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6DSK-JB?i=425&wc=3J4M-…
Martin de Ybarra es mi abuelo en 9° grado.
y Franco de Ybarra que se menciona recibe una esclava a Luis de Amezquita debe ser el casado con Catalina Diaz Mondragon.
Con este ultimo documento, tengo una tarea para lo que no estoy preparado; leer la escritura "procesal" que decia el propio Don Quijote de la Mancha "que no la
entenderá Satanás."
Te mando un saludo.
Francisco M Ibarra
anexo. Cofradias. Comisión especial a Joseph de Moya para que proceda a averiguar la cantidad de ganado que han vendido los naturales de Tizapan.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-689P-SS?i=329&cc=18745…
I’m trying to find out if Alferez Real Francisco Suárez y de Ibarra’s and Isabel Pimentel’s son, Miguel, born in 1631, married in 1656 to a woman named Agustina de Zúñiga y Mendoza.
Sorry, nothing to help connect the couple. The only other thing I have is Miguel's christening:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-531D-Y?i=194&wc=3JFG-L…
I see they had kids in Gudalajara, maybe look at their baptisms and see if Francisco and Isabel's relatives or Isabel herself were padrinos. That may help confirm your suspicions.
FYI Isabel died in 1665
Hi Jesús,
I think this might help:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-34Y8?cat=35680
It lists Miguel de Ibarra Pimentel married to Agustina de Zúñiga y Viscaino as the albacea of Nicolas de Viscaino, his suegro.
Also additional info in Nicolas Viscaino's will:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-3HM2?i=85&cat=356…
Regards,
Richard
Thank you Richard!!
This is great!! I'm going to read both documents. Do you have any evidence of Miguel's and Agustina's son, Francisco Xavier, born in 1678, married a woman named Lorenza de la Plaza. This would be the last step to proof my direct ancestry to Francisco Suárez de Ibarra.
Thank you vey much!!
Wow thank you for providing the info on Miguel. Do you know if any other of Francisco and Isabel's children besides Miguel and Francisco el Mozo, were married?
Hello Luigi:
Juan de Ibarra y Pimentel , born 1640, married Teresa de Sabalsa.
His "partida de entierro"
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-Q397-2F?i=67&cc=188337…
His "partida de bautismo"
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-531H-F?i=102&cc=187459…
Marriage of his daughter:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MNRV-R?i=204&cc=188337…
"Padrino" of Nicolás Salvador de Ibarra,son of Francisco de Ibarra, who I believe is son of Miguel de Ibarra and Agustina Zúñiga VIzcaino.
ttps://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MK9H-73?i=283&wc=M647-4TG%3A17…
Jesus,
Thank you for this information. I have worked alot on Francisco and Isabel and I could never find any descendants other than their son Francisco. Looks like the family went to Nayarit!
Alex
Jesus And Alex,
I'm sorry to say I don't have any further information on Miguel's children, but I think the case you presented on another thread is suggestive. If I find anything I will post it!
- Richard
Francisco Suárez de Ibarra (1598-1687), Alférez Real de Guadalajara, married Isabel de Pimentel; they had, among other children, two sons, Miguel de Ibarra y Pimentel (born 1631), who married Agustina
I have been trying to look at this information to help. How do you know Juan was Miguel's brother? I know that Juan used Pimentel as a surname as well but he could be a nephew i.e. grandson of Francisco and Isabel. I saw he has at least 1 child in the early 1700's. Not impossible but an uncommon timeline.
Hello Alex:
Well, I think I know it because of the "partida de bautismo" of Juan de Ibarra y Pimentel, born 1640, that says his parentes were Francisco de Súarez de Ibarra and Isabel de Pimentel, who are also Miguel's parents.
And his partida de entierro, in 1718, says he was Juan de Ibarra y Pimentel. Yes, they indeed have children at the beginning of the 1700s, but Juan was nine years younger than Miguel; in the 1700s he was 60. He could still have some children at that age. Of course there is still the possibiity that Teresa's husband and Miguel's brother could be a different person.
Thank you.
Francisco Suárez de Ibarra (1598-1687), Alférez Real de Guadalajara, married Isabel de Pimentel; they had, among other children, two sons, Miguel de Ibarra y Pimentel (born 1631), who married Agustina
My family came from encarnacion de diaz area in Jalisco Mexico and was wandering what tribe of Indians were prevalent in that area around 1700 time frameSent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S9.
I have a list for "grupos y lenguas de indigenas" of Nueva Galicia for 1525 to 1621. The tribe listed then for Xalisco was "tecozquin" but there were so many others later on. Our DNA simply gives us "indigenous" and a general area. There really is no way to pinpoint a tribe yet to the DNA. I am haplogroup C - Native American, Pre-columbian. My mother was from the Pueblo tribes of New Mexico (Piro-Manso-Tiwa) and the language was Uto-Aztecan
________________________________
From: Research on behalf of herjoe59
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 1:59 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Researching type of Indians prevalent in Encarnacion de Diaz
My family came from encarnacion de diaz area in Jalisco Mexico and was wandering what tribe of Indians were prevalent in that area around 1700 time frameSent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S9.
My dad’s mother’s indigenous Haplogroup was A. I KNOW for a fact we descend from (1) Moctezuma, (2) Miguel Caldera’s indigenous mother, (3) and other anonymous indigenous ancestors from Zacatecas and Chihuahua. I do wish I knew who the anonymous ones were.
> On Jun 20, 2020, at 19:22, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> I have a list for "grupos y lenguas de indigenas" of Nueva Galicia for 1525 to 1621. The tribe listed then for Xalisco was "tecozquin" but there were so many others later on. Our DNA simply gives us "indigenous" and a general area. There really is no way to pinpoint a tribe yet to the DNA. I am haplogroup C - Native American, Pre-columbian. My mother was from the Pueblo tribes of New Mexico (Piro-Manso-Tiwa) and the language was Uto-Aztecan
>
> ________________________________
> From: Research on behalf of herjoe59
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 1:59 PM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Researching type of Indians prevalent in Encarnacion de Diaz
>
> My family came from encarnacion de diaz area in Jalisco Mexico and was wandering what tribe of Indians were prevalent in that area around 1700 time frameSent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S9.
Can you please send me a copy of that list or let me know where I can find it? Thanks! Happy Anniversary!!!!
> On Jun 20, 2020, at 19:22, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> I have a list for "grupos y lenguas de indigenas" of Nueva Galicia for 1525 to 1621. The tribe listed then for Xalisco was "tecozquin" but there were so many others later on. Our DNA simply gives us "indigenous" and a general area. There really is no way to pinpoint a tribe yet to the DNA. I am haplogroup C - Native American, Pre-columbian. My mother was from the Pueblo tribes of New Mexico (Piro-Manso-Tiwa) and the language was Uto-Aztecan
>
> ________________________________
> From: Research on behalf of herjoe59
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 1:59 PM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Researching type of Indians prevalent in Encarnacion de Diaz
>
> My family came from encarnacion de diaz area in Jalisco Mexico and was wandering what tribe of Indians were prevalent in that area around 1700 time frameSent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S9.
I will have to look for it in my files and send it to you.
Emilile
________________________________
From: Research on behalf of M Vallazza
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 1:26 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Researching type of Indians prevalent in Encarnacion de Diaz
Can you please send me a copy of that list or let me know where I can find it? Thanks! Happy Anniversary!!!!
> On Jun 20, 2020, at 19:22, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> I have a list for "grupos y lenguas de indigenas" of Nueva Galicia for 1525 to 1621. The tribe listed then for Xalisco was "tecozquin" but there were so many others later on. Our DNA simply gives us "indigenous" and a general area. There really is no way to pinpoint a tribe yet to the DNA. I am haplogroup C - Native American, Pre-columbian. My mother was from the Pueblo tribes of New Mexico (Piro-Manso-Tiwa) and the language was Uto-Aztecan
>
> ________________________________
> From: Research on behalf of herjoe59
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 1:59 PM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Researching type of Indians prevalent in Encarnacion de Diaz
>
> My family came from encarnacion de diaz area in Jalisco Mexico and was wandering what tribe of Indians were prevalent in that area around 1700 time frameSent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S9.
In our family, the mitochondrial haplogroup is D1. The most recent locations were Colotlan and Tlaltenango, moving back and forth. The earliest record we have on the mtDNA line is a woman born c 1655 whose daughters were born 1693 and c1684, with the 1693 birth at Tlaltenango.
I searched -- still do since more studies are coming out -- on the web and found a recent anthropological study in which they tested people who had all four of their grandparents considered to be from the same indigenous population. Comparing the specific mtDNA mutations of our flavor of D1 to the mutation network in the study, ours match those of people considered now to be Nahua.
I take the anthropological study's DNA results, specific and precise as they are, as needing more extensive DNA testing to verify or modify them. But the correspondence of our mutations with those of the people they tested and considered to be Nahua was clearly a match.
The maps of pre-Columbian regions of indigenous people place the Nahua a fair distance southeast of the Colotlan-Tlaltenango area, so that this particular line of the ancestors of our D1 would have had to have migrated northwest.
The lesson seems to be that location in 1700 is not necessarily an indicator of original location or of which original people included that branch of your family.
Hopefully, other anthropological studies of Y-DNA haplogroups can also add to this. But from what I have seen, the great majority of Y-DNA haplogroups of kits in our family have origins in Spain and not in indigenous populations in Mexico.
Hello,
I have not been lucky with records for indigenous direct ancestors however I was able to trace my Orozco line from Tlaltenango to Teocaltiche 1670. In the record, it states my ancestor spoke in his language of Otomi. I found this interesting and it confirms that many native groups were displaced or migrated to other regions of mexico. This was both exciting and sad. I learned that without proof i really cant attribute native ancestors to local tribes.
Maven
Acabo de adquirir una copia de los padrones de Jerez de 1733 en adelante (son varios) que no están microfilmados ni en los padrones de Guadalajara, ni en lo que atañe a Jerez.
Hi Julio,
Thank you for the Census of Xerez.
I would like to ask you if by any chance to you have a census of "Rancho Carboneras" that was located near Xerez? My Angon ancestors owned the place during the time period of 1632 - 1700. Here is a 1648 Census of Rancho Carboneras and Valparaiso. Esteban Angon the owner of Rancho Carboneras and his father Joan Angon was at Valparaiso who was the original owner.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-W9ND?cat=2302988
During the years supposedly Rancho Carboneras (Rancho de Joan De Angon that had a Cofradia) changed names over the years from an Estancia then after 1700 it became a Hacienda. Hacienda Santa Rosa.
So if you have any census of Rancho Carbonera (Rancho de Joan Angon) or Hacienda Santa Rosa? Can you show me?
Hola Familia,
I'm no where as experienced in research as some of you, but in the few years I've been at it,
The way I understand it, Miguel Flores, the soldier, and Rita Romero, the married wife, are the parents of the illegitimate child, Jose antonio. Jose Antonio de Cardenas, and his wife, Juana de Dios Tijerino, adopted the child. It says soldiers in plural, but most likely the only soldier was José Antonio Cardenas.
Hi! Well, I think so, it definitely says "por adopción". But what really catches my eye is the crossed out word. Where they always state if they are legitimate or illegitimate children, they seem to have crossed out another word, and then wrote something else above.
I can't fully understand any of them tbh but it looks like "hijo adulterino", which was a child born from a cheating spouse. The word on top might say "espurio", which matches the theory.
Also, it says the father is single while the mother is married. So maybe that's why they adopted the child? Also it seems interesting that the word "soldado" is there, but I wouldn't know if the father was a soldier (maybe that adds information to this story) or if it means something else (since it also says the adoptive parents are "soldados" and I don't think women could do that back then?)
Hope it helps!
Thank you. I found this a difficult baptismal entry to read not only because of the redactions, but also the terms used were new to me in a baptismal entry. The reason I researched this 1801 entry, is that I'm descended from a subsequent child of the biological couple, whom by the way, were married in 1802. There's got to be a story there!
That town was a way station for gathering of Spanish military on it's way into Texas and points beyond. The 1718 founders of San Antonio were gathered there before they embarked on their mission to settle what is now San Antonio. So, yes, he probably was a soldier. Now as for the adoptive parents, especially the wife, don't know if they were soldiers, too.
Thank you again for your help.
Alice B Blake
Hi people,
I have a refurbised dell desktop computer. I have had it. It is a piece of in colonial terms, "donkey poo."
Just get a computer with more that 8GB of Ram, and i5 cpu or more, a solid state drive and and average graphics card.
I would recommend getting a computer with a lot of RAM. Any new computer will be fine. At minimum you want 8GB of RAM (random access memory) on your computer. If you have multiple pages open and viewing scanned documents, more RAM will improve the performance of your efforts. Otherwise, the computer will seem sluggish.
Ernesto Duran
https://portalvalparaiso.info/hacienda-de-valparaiso/
Hacienda de Valparaíso
I have a 1648 census of Valparaiso and Rancho Carboneras. Rancho Carboneras belonged to my ancestor Joan (Juan) de Angon and his son Esteban Angon.
In the 1648 census Joan de Angon is viudo living at Valparaiso and his son Esteban Angon is soltero living at Rancho Carbonera.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-W9ND?cat=2302988
Rancho Carbonera had a Cofradia there in place beginning in 1632. As there is an archive called "Cofradias 1632 - 1700" in the familysearch records of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-FSS1-7G?wc=3JHM-C66%3A…
Joan De Angon originally came from Brihuela, Spain and was on the Flota of 1606 where he was a passenger on the Nao Magdalena ship. That was a big fleet that sailed:
https://todoavante.es/index.php?title=1606_-_Flota_de_Nueva_Espa%C3%B1a
I have his passenger document in pasajeros from the pars website where it says the name of the ship he was on in 1606.
He then appears in 1632 owning "Rancho Joan De Angon" which was mentioned the name was Rancho Carbonera. A cofradia was there and it is like a diary of the activities going on where mostly elections for the Cofradia and visits from the Bishop of Guadalajara that passed by.
Esteban Angon inherited the Rancho De Joan Angon (Carboneras) from Joan De Angon. And in the census of 1648 of Valparaiso. Joan De Angon is viudo living in Valparaiso and Esteban Angon in Rancho Carboneras.
In one of those pages of the Cofradias 1632 - 1700 it mentions that Esteban Angon had two herederos. I am sure one of them was Maria De La Candelaria Angon.
Maria De La Candelaria Angon was married to my ancestor Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709). Maria De La Candelaria has received property from Juan Lobato in 1697 called Atemajac. I believe that Juan Lobato was the on of Felipe Lobato who is on the 1648 valpariso census.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-J7F9-4?cat=278176
So my ancestors Antonio Madera and Maria De La Candelaria (Angon) had registered their properties "Las Palmas and Atemejac" with the Real Audencia of Guadalajara in 1697 - 1698.
They had several sons and daughters. I am branched off from their son Joseph Madera.
But one of their sons name Juan Madera then in 1757 went to meet with the niece of Don Fernando Campa y Cos named Manuela Garcia De Rodellega about doing measurements of the properties of Antonio Madera and Maria De La Candelaria called Palmitos and Atemejac:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-R3F6?i=56&cat=278…
on page 62 here is the actual measurements of those properties next to Valparaiso:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-R34C?i=61&cat=278…
The cofradia de was at Rancho de Joan De Angon (Rancho Carboneras) beginning in 1632 had tried to move to Valaparaiso but was rejected by the spouse of Manuela Garcia De Rodellega. So then the Cofradia moved to Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico and I believe that is why the archive of the cofradia is located in the files of Huejuquilla. Today there is a ranch in huejuquilla name La Cofradia.
I want to ask if you can find more data on Maria De La Candelaria for me. I know her full last name is Angon because when her daughter got married it says in the archdioces records that her name is Maria De La Candelaria Angon. So the Angon must be her maiden name.
Who are the parents of Antonio Madera and Maria De La Candelaria Angon? Antonio Madera's parents I would like to know if you can find that. I am pretty sure the father of Maria de La Candelaria is Esteban Angon and grandfather Joan De Angon.
Joan De Angon seemed to have some relation to Felipe Lobato where they both appear on the 1648 Valparaiso Census. Because then Juan Lobato passed tierras to Maria De La Candelaria in 1697.
I received the following message from a person applying for membership. Email me directly (Joseph@nuestrosranchos.org) if you are related to the couples mentioned:
I got excited when I saw Zacoalco on the headline, since a lot of my ancestors lived in this town. Sadly, neither of these two couples are related to me. I have a Flores ancestor in Zacoalco, but that's way before 1868. I hope a descendant who will appreciate these records shows up. I just have a question, how did this gentleman/lady get hold of these documents?
Saludos.
Steve in NC.
Buen día para todos.
Siguiendo las genealogías de algunas familias, me he encontrado con una pregunta:
¿ porqué migran del Bajío a Los Altos de Jalisco ?
Según lo que he visto en los registros y lo que he leído sobre el tema el reino de Nueva Galicia vivió un crecimiento agrícola, económico y demográfico en el siglo XVIII. Este crecimiento atrajo a muchos a dicho reino. Entre ellos hubo ricos, pobres, comerciantes, cultivadores, ganaderos, arrieros, mano de obra, terratenientes, aventureros, criminales, funcionarios públicos, militares, religiosos, profesionales y muchos otros. Algunos también llevaron esclavos. Todos dejaron huella. Y se supone que cada uno de ellos tuvo su propio motivo por el cual llegaron a estar en Nueva Galicia.
Como ejemplo está la hacienda de Santa Ana Pacueco, que abarca una parte de los Altos, y que fue un área de oportunidad para muchas personas. Este latifundio fue tan vasto que en vez de gestionarlo de forma centralizada fue dividido en parcelas que luego fueron arrendadas a individuos o familias emprendedoras. Muchos de estos arrendatarios, sus familias, y su mano de obra (incluyendo esclavos) tuvieron su origen en el reino de Nueva España, principalmente en el Bajío y Michoacán.
No tengo un conocimiento profundo sobre este asunto y las lecturas que he hecho sobre este tema son pocas. Hay otros aquí que saben más y que nos pueden decir mucho más sobre esta cuestión.
In researching the marriage of Francisco Campos and Maria Gonzalez, and I've found some interesting finds.
I want to add the following about civil marriage records. In most civil marriage records of this time period, one should find two entries for every couple that married successfully. The first one is the presentación and the second one the matrimonio.
In the case of Francisco Campos and María González, the earlier entry is the presentación. It is stated so at the beginning of the record. In the latter entry it says matrimonio at the beginning. Every couple who married successfully should have a corresponding presentación and matrimonio entry, usually in the same book. For example, Bonifacio Reyes and Carmen Medina had their presentación recorded right after Francisco and María’s on page 207 (image 259), and had their matrimonio recorded right before Francisco and Maria’s on page 220 (image 272).
The difference with church marriage records is that the información matrimonial and the marriage records are almost always found in separate books.
I'm reading that Maria's age was 19. I thought that was legal in Mexico. I agree with the earlier comment that the church was waiting for the civil marriage to occur first. I did not read any other issue that might have stalled the wedding. They both took communion and made confessions.
Thank you both for your work. And, thank you for the church marriage record. I also know that Francisco died only eight years later in a hospital/mental institution after a mining accident in Arizona, but I do not know the name of the hospital. (His civil death indicates it was "imaginacion mental.") Come to find out his son had schiziphrenia.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9R29-7TG?i=4872&wc=M8R…
Are there any records online or on Familysearch that would verify admittance to a hospital from the early 1900s? I've looked at mining accidents in Arizona online and cannot find his name....it might not have been a major accident he was involved in-who knows?
Thanks again you two.
Marty
Hi!!
At the end of the first document it states that the witnesses said they knew the couple and that they could be married, so they started the corresponding publication of the marriage and I guess paper work. So yeah, in the first date they started the process and then they had to come back once it was settled.
Also note that the bride was underage at the time, so they needed the consent of the father. Maybe the church wanted them to be legally married first because of that?
Edit: Maybe the last part makes it clear:
"Se publicó este matrimonio segpun disposición (...) el veinticinco de Julio (...) Agosto del año de siete, sin resulta de impedimento alguno ni aún pasado el testmonio legal; por lo mismo mandé (...) la celebración del mismo enlace, el cual se verificó con mi licencia en la Iglesia Parroquial el veintinueve del mismo Agosto..."
So indeed, I would say they were waiting to see if there was also no legal impediment for the wedding.
What you found is actually typical, I think. The only thing missing in your collection is the church’s record of the marriage.
Here in the States, one can apply for a marriage license from the local, secular authority, but then have a religious marriage officiant (priest, pastor, minister, rabbi, imam, etc…) perform the ceremony. It is kind of like a 2-for-1; Church and State together in one act of union.
México practices a stricter separation of Church and State in this regard. One can be legally married by the local, secular, civil authority, and, if so desired, can also go to the local parish and apply to be married there by a priest as well. Which is what happened here. Francisco and María declared their intent to marry at both the Registro Civil and the church on the same day.
The civil record dated July 26th, 1907 (image 259) is when they appeared at the Registro Civil to initiate the marriage process. The record says, “…comparecieron Francisco Campos y María González con objetivo de iniciar su matrimonio…” This process is akin to the información matrimonial at the church. Its purpose is to see if they meet the requirements for marriage according to legal statutes.
The civil record dated August 27th, 1907 (image 272) is when they were legally married. It states, “…comparecieron Francisco Campos y María González con objetivo de consumar su matrimonio…” The act of marital union was made official by the presiding officiant, “…el Juez que subscribe los declaró perfectamente unidos en legítimo e indisoluble matrimonio.”
Many churches will not marry couples unless they are already legally married. That could be why the church wedding did not take place until the 29th of August, two days after the civil wedding.
I am no expert on the topic. If others can add to or correct what I have said here, I welcome them to do so.
I hope this helps.
PS - Notice the absence of the honorific "don" in the civil records. Why do you suppose that is?
Hola Joseph:
Estoy investigando mis ancestros de apellido Ramírez, de los cuales no tengo mucha referencia y me gustaría poder ser auxiliado por ustedes.
Empezaré por Nicasio Ra
I haven’t checked all my records yet but I can add pieces to your puzzle. Maria de Jesus is also known as Maria de Jesus Gonzalez de Hermosillo.
Rick A Ricci
Hola:
La familia Vivanco procede de San Agustín Ayo Chico, al parecer de Don Juan de Vivanco y de Doña María Magdalena Pérez de Mendoza.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "Pedigree Resource File," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:3ZGS-QJK : accessed 2018-01-06), entry for Juan /De Bibanco/.
No encontré el registro de bautismo de Doña Francisca de Vivanco, posible nieta de los anteriores. Doña Francisca de Vivanco casó con Mathias Ramírez y tuvieron cuando menos tres hijos:
Joseph Claudio, Marino de la Concepción y María de los Dolores que se bautizó el 9 de abril de 1741 en San Agustín Ayo Chico.
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NT2C-R4D : 2 January 2015), Maria De Los Dolores Ramires Vivanco, 09 Apr 1741; citing SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,670.
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGNG-7LH : 2 January 2015), Mariano De La Concpn. Ramires Vivanco, 02 Jan 1746; citing SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,670.
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGNL-5BR : 2 January 2015), Joseph Claudio Ramires Vivanco, 28 Jul 1736; citing SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,670.
María Dolores Ramírez Vivanco Alias María Vivanco se casa con Nicasio Ramírez, posiblemente bautizado en Jalostotitlán el día 27 de agosto de 1737, hijo de Joseph Ramírez y María Dominga. Ésta pareja pasa a vivir a San Agustín Ayutlán en la hacienda de la Troxe (Troje), en donde fueron padres de:
1759:María Juliana
1761: José Gregorio
1763:María Guadalupe
1769: José María
No he localizado todavía el bautismo de Ignacio Ramírez Vivanco.
Respecto a la familia Ramírez, es posible que Nicasio descienda de la familia Ramírez de Coy. En otros nodos se ha comentado sobre Doña Gerónima Ramírez de Coy casada con su pariente Miguel de Coss y León que pasaron de Silao a Jalisco, según se refiere en la obra Retoños de España de Nueva Galicia.
Los indicios se basan en que el padrino de los hijos el Presbítero Antonio de Roxas. Algunos miembros de la familia Ramírez de Coy recibían el apellido "de Roxas" y otro de los padrino es el Presbítero Juan Manuel Gasco, cuyo apellido también está relacionado con la familia Ramírez de Coy.
Saludos
Marcelina
Sra. Marcelina:
Siempre pensamos que el troncal primogenio RAMIREZ estaba en Teocaltiche, o en Xalos y nos llena de sorpresa que alguna ramificación estuviera asentada también en Silao, Guanajuato.
Le quiero preguntar, la rama de Don Nicasio ¿ es un vaso comunicante de los RAMIREZ DE HERMOSILLO ?.
Muy agradecido por su información y si usted llega a tener mas información se lo agradezco.
Saludos y Felíz año 2018
Hola a todos:
La familia Ramírez de Coy tuvo negocios de minería, crianza y venta de caballos, venta de vino y frutos secos, venta de telas en todos los virreinatos. Los hijos y sobrinos fueron enviados a diversas poblaciones, el comercio se administraba desde La Habana.
He intentado encontrar una relación con la familia Ramírez de Hermosillo pero de momento no la he encontrado.
Saludos
Marcelina
Marcelina, buenas tardes :
Hace un tiempo, usted amablemente me dio información de Nicasio Ramírez, en donde usted comenta que probablemente nació en Jalostotitlán en fecha 27 Agosto de 1737, sin embargo, al revisar la ficha/micro film, dicha persona resulta ser "Yndio", y que supongo que no es la persona que estamos buscando.
Sigo buscando a este caballero y teniendo información, con gusto se la haré saber.
Reciba saludos y gracias por apoyarme en la investigación.
Feliz Navidad y próspero año 2020
También tengo unos Ramirez en mi árbol residentes en Ayo y sus alrededores.
Primero les doy la referencia a una dispensa de 1804 entre José Ignacio Nicacio Ramírez (b. 1770, San Miguel el Alto) y María Guadalupe Villalpando (b. 1780, Arandas).
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-62ZB-1?i=389&wc=125128…
Árbol
Tronco: Luis Ramírez
1) Mathias Ramírez --- Efigenia Ramírez
2) Nicacio Ramírez --- Juana Marias? Perez
3) Ignacio Ramírez (Po.) --- Antonio Villalpando
4) (blanco) --- Guadalupe Villalpando (Pa.)
Efectivamente, creo que este Luis Ramírez es el Luis Ramírez García casado con Josefa del Castillo Fuentes, quienes tuvieron hijos bautizados y casados en Ayo. A su vez, creo que Luis es hijo de Lázaro Garcia y Luisa de los Reyes Ramírez, vecinos de Ayo. A Josefa del Castillo Fuentes la tengo como hija de Juan de Fuentes y Agustina del Castillo, vecinos de Ayo. Tengo a una hija de Luis y Josefa (llamada Juana) casada con Juan Manuel Gascón Mascorza. Tal vez esto ayuda en conectar esta familia con los Ramírez de Coy?
Este Mathias Ramirez debe ser el mismo que señala Marcelina, casado con Francisca de Vivanco. Lamentablemente, su registro de matrimonio de 1724 no contiene los nombres de sus padres y es muy deficil leer.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-FS3H-QF?i=183&cc=18745…
También encontré el matrimonio de Nicacio Ramírez (el padre de José Ignacio Nicacio Ramírez) con María de los Dolores Martin(ez) del Angel. No contiene los nombres de sus padres, pero los padres de Nicacio quedan claros con la dispensa mencionada.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-FS9W-72?i=69&wc=3J41-N…
Sería posible que el registro bautismal de María Timotea Ramírez Navarro sea equivocado, y que su abuela es María Dolores Martin y no Vivanco?
Marcelina, sería posible que no es María Dolores Ramírez Vivanco la casada con Nicacio Ramírez y que es una María Dolores Martin del Angel (Martínez, Angel, etc) de la familia de este apellido avecindada en San Juan de los Lagos?
Tal vez esto haría que el Ignacio Ramírez casado con Guadalupe Villalpando en Arandas en 1804 es el mismo quien fue casado con Dolores Navarro (probablemente en segundas nupcias)? Si lo es, ayudará en profundizar su árbol un poco más con los Ramírez, pero no tanto en conectarlos con los Ramírez de Mendoza.
Espero que esto les ayuda en algo.
Un cordial saludo,
Richard
Nicasio Ramirez no es hijo de Matias. Nicasio es yerno de Matías Ramirez
Maria De los Dolores Vivanco es hija de “Matías Ramirez” y Francisca Vivanco.
Marcelina tiene razón, Francisca Vivanco es hija de Don Juan de Vivanco y de Doña María Magdalena Pérez de Mendoza. Juan y María Magdalena se casaron 04 Feb 1693 en Ayo el Chico, Jalisco. María Magdalena es hija de Diego Perez and Nicolasa De Mendoza.
Rick A. Ricci
Saludos Rick,
Me puede citar un documento que tiene a Nicacio Ramírez casado con María de los Dolores Vivanco? Solo han citado aquí la partida bautismal de Timotea Ramírez Navarro, y he encontrado numerosos veces que los abuelos en partidas bautismales están equivocados.
Todo lo que yo he visto tiene a María Dolores esposa de Nicacio como Martin, Martínez, Angel, o Martin del Angel, y no Vivanco. Además hay la dispensa que he citado que contiene a Nicacio como hijo de Matías.
Richard
Joseph de la Luz Vivanco, casado con María Guadalupe Angel, entre otros hijos hay uno muy interesante; Jose Antonio, (8 Mayo 1772), ya que Nicasio Ramírez y María Ángel son los padrinos;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-FS7T-Y?from=lynx1UIV8&…
Lo curioso es que se anota "María Ángel como madre y madrina"
Hay un personaje Antonio Rojas/Roxas que apadrina a hijos de este matrimonio, así como a los hijos de Nicasio.
Los padrinos son muy variados, pero la mayoría con apellido Ramírez
Saludos Richard:
En extricta redactiva en diversas actas parroquiales, el nombre NICASIO RAMÍREZ & MARÍA ANGEL, corresponden a los hijos y nietos siguientes:
Hijos: 1.-José Antonio casado con Bárbara Hernández
2.-Joseph Gregorio
3.-Ma. Juliana
4.-Josef María casado con Ma. Juana Muñoz
Nietos : Del matrimonio # 1, nace Bárbara Ramírez Hernández, así tambien del #4, Ma. Rosalia Ramírez Muñoz.
En todos estos casos se lee extrictamente en actas los nombres NICASIO RAMÍREZ & MARÍA ANGEL.
Una de las hijas del matrimonio NICASIO RAMÍREZ & MARÍA ANGEL; es María Guadalupe, que es apadrinado por Antonio de Roxas y es también padrino de una nieta y se trata de la hija de Ignacio Ramírez & Dolores Navarro, de nombre Ma. Manuela Ramírez Navarro.
El nombre VIVANCO en estas actas no existe.
Sin embargo hay algo interesante :
Joseph de la Luz Vivanco casado con María Guadalupe Angel ( hijo de Bartolomé Vivanco y Ma. de los Dolores Ramírez y de Miguel Angel y Ma. de Aguirre), tienen un hijo, José Antonio Vivanco Angel, cuyos padrinos son ¡ NICASIO RAMÍREZ & MARÍA ANGEL !, es decir, que aquellos son compadres de estos últimos.
José Antonio tiene una hermana, MA. Alvina, que tiene por padrino a Antonio de Roxas y Manuela Arriaga.
Los padrinos de los hijos y nietos de NICASIO RAMÍREZ & MARÍA ANGEL, son mayoritariamente de apellido Ramírez
Conclusión:
La esposa de Nicasio no tiene conexión con la línea Vivanco, y Angel es el apellido de familias que migran del Bajío a los Altos de Jalisco.
Sigue el misterio de Nicasio Ramírez y su cronograma
Lo Vivanco viene por la madre de Nicacio Ramirez
1) Luis Ramirez se casó con Josefa del Castillo Fuentes
2) Matias Ramirez y del Castillo se caso con Francisca Viivanco
3) Nicacio Ramírez y Vivanco se casó con Maria de los Dolores Martin del Angel (aka Martinez, aka Angel)
4) Ignacio Ramírez Vivanco y Martin del Ángel casado con Dolores Navarro, h.l. de Pedro Navarro y María de Jesús González,
¿ tienes localizada la ficha del bautizo de Mathias Ramírez ?...
Maria De los Dolores Ramirez Vivanca (aka Dolores Vivanco) was baptized 09 APR 1741
San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico. She is the daughter of Matias Ramirez and Francisca Vivanco
Ygnacio is the son of Nicasio Ramirez and Maria De los Dolores Vivanco.
The baptism proves Mathias had a daughter named Maria de los Dolores Ramírez (possibly Vivanco).
What I have not seen is a document that shows Maria Dolores, the wife of Nicacio Ramírez, with the last name Vivanco or Ramírez, only the last names I listed above. The only exception is the baptism of Igancio's daughter. Since it is so far removed it is not unlikely that it has a mistake. Are there any baptisms of Nicacio's children for example that list Maria Dolores as a Vivanco?
The dispensa could be mistaking son-in-law for son, but until I see evidence that Dolores was a Ramirez Vivanco I do not see how we can make that leap.
There should be more “dispensas“ that should clarify the family tree. They were Ramirez on both side and most likely closely related. I have been unable to figure out Nicasio’s parents.
María de Jesús Gonzalez de Hermosillo’s parents were related as her parents both descend from the Hernandez Gamino family.
Rick A. Ricci
I went back through some of the other baptismal records of the children of Ignacio Ramirez and Dolores Navarro. Timotea's contained a mistake. The baptism of Jose de los Santos Ramirez Navarro on 10 Nov 1799 in Arandas states abuelos paternos as Jose Nicacio Ramirez and Maria de los Dolores MARTINEZ.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-F9SM-KF?i=644&cc=18745…
Nicacio's wife was Maria de los Dolores Martin del Angel (aka Martinez, aka Angel) NOT Maria de los Dolores Vivanco (Nicacio's sister). Again, no one has been able to find the parents of a Nicacio Ramirez married to a Dolores Vivanco (daughter of Mathias Ramirez & Francisca Vivanco) because this marriage did not exist. At least I have not seen any other indication of it other than the baptism of Timotea Ramirez Navarro in 1807, after Nicacio Ramirez and Dolores Martin were dead.
Nicacio Ramirez and Maria de los Dolores Martin are likely the parents of Ignacio Ramirez, the husband of Dolores Navarro Gonzalez.
The only thing that requires further investigation is why Ignacio was trying to get a dispensa in 1804 to marry Guadalupe Villalpando when he was clearly already married to and having children with Dolores Navarro in 1805-1807?
Thank you Tocayo for clearing that up. Now to find Matias Ramírez ‘s mother, wife of Luis Ramírez
Thanks again,
Rick
No problem! Do let me know if you have any ideas on what to make of the dispensa.
Do you have anything on the couple Luis Ramirez cc Josefa del Castillo Fuentes who baptised some of their children in Ayo? I don't think I ever found their marriage.
No problem! Do let me know if you have any ideas on what to make of the dispensa.
Do you have anything on the couple Luis Ramirez cc Josefa del Castillo Fuentes who baptised some of their children in Ayo? I don't think I ever found their marriage.
I descend from Miguel Garcia del Castillo and Maria Cornejo Osorio y Ramirez. I wonder if Miguel is related to to Luis Ramirez Garcia and Josefa Castillo. Maria Cornejo Osorio y Ramirez Santillana descends from Alvaro Perez Osorio, Conde de Villalobos.
I don’t have any other info on Lázaro Garcia married to Luisa de los Reyes Ramírez and Juan de Fuentes married to Agustina del Castillo,
I do have information on María de Jesus Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Hernandez Gamino’s ancestry.
Thanks again,
Rick
Richard:
He leído tus aportes a esta investigación; el acta de la "dispensa" matrimonial con Gpe. Villalpando, me crea confusión.
Siguiendo estrictamente a Dolores Navarro, esposa de Ignacio Ramírez, en el acta mencionada de 1803, se lee que ya es difunta, sin embargo, hay hijos nacidos después de esa fecha y que se lee que los padres son Ignacio Ramirez & Dolores Navarro. Es el caso de Jose Gregorio (1804), Ignacio Ramírez Navarro (1805) y Ma. Timotea (1807) y los abuelos maternos son los mismos; Pedro Navarro y Ma. de Jesús González Hermosillo.
En estos 3 casos, el presbítero es José María Torres
Es un rompecabezas.
Saludos
Hola Sr. Ricci:
Agradezco la información que usted generosamente me pueda proporcionar.
Gracias y reciba un saludo afectuoso.
Hello everyone! I have a question about an ancestor I can't seem to find.
The record does say J. Abraham. J. Abraham Pulido may have used “José “ or Abraham as his name.
There is a José A. Pulido that comes up in a census in 1930. Census records are not always accurate when listing the ages, especially when there is a big age difference between the spouses. He is listed as being 48 with an 18 year old wife. You should check for baptismal or birth records of his children to see if José A. Pulido and J. Abraham Pulido are the same person. Jose A. Pulido has a 17 year-old son In 1930 so his wife Couldn’t be his son’s biological mother as she is 18 in 1930.
We are distantly related through Delgadillo, Diaz de Leon, Carbajal, Figueroa, and other surnames. Our closest ancestors live in the early 1700’s.
Rick A. Ricci
That might be him, indeed. Since I posted, I checked the death records and burial records one by one, and didn't find a thing... I was also able to locate the family in the 1899 census: they were in Benavides, for some reason, but there was no José or Abraham among them. There was, however, one single "Jesús Pulido" in their actual town, Los González. It seems funny, because in 1901 one of their children, my great grandmother, gets married and declares to live in that town, not Benavides. I thought maybe he was "Jesús Abraham". It doesn't change much though haha I can't find anything with that name either.
That's really cool! My grandpa is Carbajal. The main line I'm researching is Sandoval, but they're so many! And therefore there are many other last names to research in that same endeavour, it's so amazing.
Hi Ana,
Is your great-grandmother’s name “Manuela”? Jose A. Has a daughter Manuela that I assume is named after Manuela Sandoval (j. Abraham’s maternal grandmother.
J. Abraham Son of Sixto Pulido Agapita Gonzalez
.Jose A. Pulido is the father of Francisco Pulido, Gabriel Pulido, and Manuela Pulido.
I believe that “Juan Venavides and Maria Josefa Covarrubias” are the same couple known as “Juan de Dios Benavides and Maria de San Jose Eustaquia Covarrubias “. Hey were married 15/May/1811. Juan is the son of Mateo Benavides and María Petra Lopez. María de San Jose EuStaquia is the daughter of J. Lazaro Covarrubias Y Carillo and Maria Petra de Jesus Gonzalez y Garcia.
Rick A.Ricci
Hi!
Yes, his grandmother is Manuela Sandoval. I thought so too, because he also has a brother named Gabriel, but I think this daughter is rather named after her own mother. Gabriel Pulido and Manuela Pulido were baptised in 1929, and their registry says that the parents of José A. Pulido are Herculano Pulido and Ysidra Arroyo... :( https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B39H-R3?i=742&wc=3P91-…
That pointed out, however, that I have only been looking in Nochistlan (rookie mistake perhaps). So I will rather look him up everywhere near and check every registry to see if something comes up. There are a couple of "José Pulido" that migrated to the US; and one of his brothers (Gabriel) I suspect did so too. So who knows. He's such a puzzle.
I don't think I've come across Juan Benavides or María Josefa Covarrubias (though I may very well have forgotten). Benavides does appear a few times in my tree; the grandmother of J. Abraham is María Lina Benavides Medrano.
Hello,
Hi!
Sure:
"In Saucedo's chapel, on May the eleventh of 1870, the Pr. Ygnacio Olivares with the license of the parish priest, with the previous matrimonial information and having sent everything else to revise in the Holy Council of Trento, married and (I don't know the translation of "velar", sorry) Dolores Macías and Juana Lozada: godparents Lucas Lechuga and Matiana Macías, witnesses: Leonardo Gutiérrez and Zeferina Díaz, and for the record I signed it with the priest"
hope it helps!
Jose Dolores Macias is the son of Francisco Macias and Benigna Varela.
Juana Lozano (Losada) (Loza) is the daughter of Francisco Lozano and Maria del Refugio Macias.
Francisco is the son of Juan Crisostomo Losada (Loza) and Clemencia Ríos
Juan Crisostomo Losada (Loza) Is the son of Diego Loza and Maria Petra Rodriguez.
Clemencia Ríos is the daughter of Jose Albino Rios and María Lucia Gonzalez.
María del Refugio is the daughter of Jose Ma. Macias and Ygnacia Viramontes (Miramontes.)
Jose Ma. Macias is the son of Juan Francisco Macias and Ma. Gertrudis de la Luz Silva
Rick A. Ricci
I have a strong feeling that Jose de Los Dolores Macias is not the biological son of Benigna Varela. The marriage record has her as the mother, but I believe that she is his stepmother. I believe that hiS biological mother is María Candida Guerra. This is only a hypothesis, and more research needs to be done to see if this is true.
Rick A. Ricci
I am trying to learn how to access the last will & testament of Antonio de Aguayo.
I have the same problem. I do have a database of Aguayo records I've collected from LDS church records. I'm happy to share. I'm at edjeanne0407@gmail.com. They nearly all are from Nochistlan, Zacatecas, although some of my ancestors also were in Cuautitlan, Nay and Guachinango. Regards, Ed
I would love to see what information you have in the database and compare it to what I have found.
Hello everybody! I have a question regarding which documents are more important to determine the age of an ancestor.
Hi there,
Go with the baptism records which are accurate with the dates. Back then the were not concerned about their birth dates and most of the time would forget the year they were born in. A lot of my records after the baptismal are not correct with the age.
Thank you,
Esther
As Esther said, people weren’t as concerned about their ages in those days. Some times, it was the notary or the priest who would eye-ball the person and guess their age. And when people did give their age, they’d say “ser de edad de 30 años, poco mas o menos.” (“age 30, more or less”). In my experience, seldom do ages given on marriage or burial records correspond with the true age a person. Go with the baptism record - especially if they give the age of the child (sometimes it could be a month or 2 before a child was baptized, because of distances in rural areas).
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Even baptismal records don’t always give the actual age. Sometimes the baptism was put off for a year or two.
This is all great to know. Several times I've scratched my head trying to make connections, dealing with discrepancies in age.
What I meant by even the baptism record may be off of the birth date is because some people took their time to baptize their kids. I have seen records where the child was already a toddler when he was baptized.
Does any one have any info on both of these individuals.The only info that i have from them both from Nochistlan Zacatecas Mexico, And i have their son birth record Juan Ballin Ramires.Please anyone w
Saludos a todos. Hope all is well with everyone.
While looking for records in Lagos de Moreno for 1798, I came across records mixed for 1698.
Among them was the record for Nicolas Ballin hijo de Nicolas Ballin y Bictoria Sotomayor vuido de Petronilla de Yslas to be married to Petronilla Cabrera (Olivares) Francisco Olivares states that he has raised Petronilla Cabrera from a young tender age. Perhaps this question was already settled some time ago, but I did not find the follow up nodes if there was one. Thank you.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-V299-JV
Question: All information points to Petronilla Cabrera alias Olivares as being Petronilla Ramirez. She was 15 years old at time of marriage. Does anyone have any sources that have her as being also Ramirez?
Thanks,
Just reading the latest on these two and hope that someone will share the Sanchez/yanes dispensation. Thanks everyone for all the added information. Here is my take away of all the info.
Nicolas Ballin and Petronilla Cabrera alias Olivares had
Victoria Ballín Olivares
1705–1771 • GS6R-51P
And
Nicolas Ballin and Petronilla Ramirez had
Josefa Manuela Ballin Ramirez (Dispensa for Josefa manuela)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VT9V-TF
In a later dispensa (I have looked it up yet but according to a recent post),
Victoria Ballin Olivares and Josepha Ballin Ramirez are sisters stated in the dispensation of Joseph Manuel Sanchez Vasquez 9Q1L-HKG with Ricarda Yanes
Marriage record states 4th grade
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T7RC-R
We know that it is the same Nicholas Ballin and based on the children's births and how they line up with both Cabrera and Ramirez the point to the same person. Then dispensation stating both Josefa and victoria are sisters adds to the conclusion that Petronilla Cabrera, Petronilla Olivares and Petronilla Ramirez are all one person.
While researching an unrelated couple, I came upon the following marriage record for Joseph Narsiso Ballin & Juana Gertrudis Pinto.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11592-124207-67?cc=1410092…
The marriage was on 27 Feb. 1736 in Aguascalientes. Parents for Joseph Narsiso are listed as Nicolas Ballin and Roza de Urquisa (both deceased). Perhaps a third marriage for Nicolas for you to research?
Regards,
Austin Perez
This Nicolas Ballin was the son of Diego Vallín and Francisca Ruiz de
Esparza whose Información Matrimonial was indexed by George Fulton. The
indexes he has created can be found at
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/18014
It is my suggestion that once Abram Flores reaches his brick walls that he
learn to read the Información Matrimonial records for Nochistlán and start
to index them in a similar manner,
Armando
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 7:27 PM, wrote:
> While researching an unrelated couple, I came upon the following marriage
> record for Joseph Narsiso Ballin & Juana Gertrudis Pinto.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-266-11592-124207-**
> 67?cc=1410092&wc=6810684
>
> The marriage was on 27 Feb. 1736 in Aguascalientes. Parents for Joseph
> Narsiso are listed as Nicolas Ballin and Roza de Urquisa (both deceased).
> Perhaps a third marriage for Nicolas for you to research?
>
> Regards,
> Austin Perez
Nicolas Ballin appears as Nicolas Vasquez Vallin in the baptism of his
daughter Maria Iphigenia. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NP11-Y4Z My
hypothesis is that he is the same Nicolas Vasquez Vallin that married
Petrona de Islas Calderon 28 Jul 1692. Nicolas Ballin also had children
with Petra or Petrona Olivares. Petra, Petrona, and Petronila are
interchangeable. Hopefully someone else here can clarify if these Petras
are one woman, two women or three women with the same first name but
different surnames.
Armando
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:47 PM, wrote:
> Does any one have any info on both of these individuals.The only info that
> i have from them both from Nochistlan Zacatecas Mexico, And i have their
> son birth record Juan Ballin Ramires.Please anyone who has info.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1-15087-19061-21?**
> cc=1410092&wc=6834962
Abram Flores
So Nicolas Ballin and Petrona Ramires are not husband and wife?The name ballin can be interchanged to Vallin how interesting.And yea that name name got me really confused becuase i would look into some records and see Petra Petrona Petronila and though if they were Nicolas's wife but the name used interchangeably or his Wife's, but also the record shows other locations not Nochistlan Zacatecas Mexico.Hopefully someone can help to clarify this.Here is the link again it seems to be broken
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15187-52433-14?cc=1410092&wc…
Abram Flores
I never said this nor did I infer it. What made you misinterpret what was
said?
Armando
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 8:15 PM, wrote:
> Abram Flores
> So Nicolas Ballin and Petrona Ramires are not husband and wife?
>
Abram Flores
How he married both of those woman you just mentioned that sort of confused me.He couldn't of have 3 wifes in his life time?
Abram Flores
In those days many women died of childbirth the men would then remarry even
if they were 65 years old. One of my ancestors married four times and had
16 children. So yes, he could have had three wives.
Armando
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:06 PM, wrote:
> Abram Flores
> How he married both of those woman you just mentioned that sort of
> confused me.He couldn't of have 3 wifes in his life time?
>
> Abram Flores
>
Abram Flores
Armando:
Wow that is terribly sad,4 times 16 children.Okay now i believe you, i don't get it what was Nicolas Ballin doing in Guadalajara wasn't he from Nochistlan zacatecas Mexico?
Abram Flores
I've never thought of it as sad. Just as that's the way things were back
then.
Nicolás was not in Guadalajara. The dispensa was for his daughter Josefa.
Nicolás is mentioned as being deceased. difunto, in the dispensa. You
should read it a few times over to try and understand it. The dispensas
were done by the bishop of Guadalajara. The paperwork would be sent to him
and he would read over it and decide whether or not to grant the dispensa
or waiver for the 3rd, 4th or in some cases 2nd cousins to marry.
Armando
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:33 PM, wrote:
> Abram Flores
>
> Armando:
>
> Wow that is terribly sad,4 times 16 children.Okay now i believe you, i
> don't get it what was Nicolas Ballin doing in Guadalajara wasn't he from
> Nochistlan zacatecas Mexico?
>
Abram Flores
Armando:
I would read it over and over but my spanish is really bad i would tell my mom but she is not here.Can you please define the word dispensa to me?
Abram
Abram Flores,
Ok! I give in...I've been reading your postings, and I can no longer refrain from asking the following questions.
If these questions are too personal or inappropriate for this list group, then just hit the delete key.
1.) How old are you?
2.) Is English your first language? Was/is Spanish spoken in your home?
3.) You mentioned being in school, what grade are you in ?
and finally ...
4.) Why are you researching your ancestry... is this something you elected to do or is someone pressuring you to learn more about your ancestors?
Suggested reading material... get a Webster's 21st Century Spanish/English Dictionary.
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA
----- Original Message -----
From: aflore2855@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 7:59:02 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Ballin Petrona Ramires
Abram Flores
Armando:
I would read it over and over but my spanish is really bad i would tell my mom but she is not here.Can you please define the word dispensa to me?
Abram
Abram Flores
Pat Silva
1)I am 15 years old
2)Actually spanish was my first language but then i moved into my aunts house where only english was spoken and mostly all my freinds spoke english and portuguese.And after a while it was hard for me to read spanish and talk it but i can understand.
3)Im a sophmore in high school.
4)I chose to learn about my ancestry it seemed so interesting and i just got completely addicted i wanted to find out what part of europe my ancestors came from just really curiouse.
Dear Abram,
Thank you for answering my questions...
I am more than willing to share what I think is our Nochistlan connection as it was shared with me by a NuestrosRanchos member Deena Ortiz many years ago.
But I believe for you to learn more about the process of researching you will need to do the actual image look-ups on the LDS family search website.
I will get back to you tomorrow with helping to answer your questions that you posted today.
I'm a little confused as to how you link with this line...
Is this your paternal or maternal ancestors?
I'm excited in proving your connection/lineage with that of my husband...
to be continued...
Pat Silva Corbera
p.s. I'm Portuguese - I'm almost 70 yrs old, and have two grandchildren Nicholas 15 and Sarah 11... for now they are not "that," interested in genealogy... but did ask questions when I told them that their grandfather's YDNA and mtDNA classified him as Native American. They wanted to know what tribe his ancestors came from... LOL
----- Original Message -----
From: aflore2855@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:03:52 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Getting to know Abram Flores
Abram Flores
Pat Silva
1)I am 15 years old
2)Actually spanish was my first language but then i moved into my aunts house where only english was spoken and mostly all my freinds spoke english and portuguese.And after a while it was hard for me to read spanish and talk it but i can understand.
3)Im a sophmore in high school.
4)I chose to learn about my ancestry it seemed so interesting and i just got completely addicted i wanted to find out what part of europe my ancestors came from just really curiouse.
Abram and Armando:
I have the following information in my database:
Nicolás Vázquez Ballín (aka Nicolás Ballín) married Victoria de Montañez y Sotomayor 16 Aug 1663 in Aguascalientes. They had three children all born in Aguascalientes between 1663-1670 : Juan (b.1666), Bartholome (b. 1668) and Nicolás (b.1670). Their son Nicolás Ballin de Sotomayor, baptized 2 Dec 1670 in Aguascalientes, married Petrona Enríquez de Calderón (aka Petra de Islas, aka Petronila de Islas y Calderón). Their marriage was recorded 26 Jun 1692 in Aguascalientes and a month later 28 Jul 1692 in Nochistlán.
Sources:
LDS Film 0299823 Marriages 1663-1702 Aguascalientes, Ags.
LDS Film 0226725 Marriages 1691-1736 Nochistlán, Zac.
Nicolás Ballín de Sotomayor and Petrona Enríquez de Calderón had two children, Bartholomé and Juan. Juan was baptized 23 Sep 1693 in Nochistlán. His mother died shortly after giving birth and was buried 4 Dec 1693 in Nochistlán. According to Mary Lou Montagna, Nicolás Ballin de Sotomayor married Petronila de Cabrera in 1698. Some of the information in this message comes from "The Genealogy of Juan Montañez and his descendants in Aguascalientes, San Luis Potosí and Zacatecas," Published by the Society of Hispanic Historical and Ancestral Research, Journal IV, (c) 1998 edited by Mary Lou Montagna and Ophelia Marquez. Some of Mary Lou Montagna's information comes from correspondence with Jaime Holcombe. I have a paper copy somewhere but is lost in my files. Perhaps someone can provide a copy.
Juan Ballin married Elvira Delgadillo 13 Jun 1721 in Nochistlán and had at least four children: Josepha, María, Juana-Gertrudis and Pablo-Joseph. María was baptized 22 Oct 1722 in Nochistlán.
Nicolás Ballín (who married Petronila Ramírez and baptized a son named Juan in Nochistlán 24 May 1722) is probably related. More research to follow and document these lines is required. Recommended sources:
"Genealogía de Nochistlán, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales" por José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías, and
"Letters to Mary Lou Montagna" by Jaime Holcombe.
Hope this helps.
BILL FIGUEROA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Armando"
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Ballin Petrona Ramires
Nicolas Ballin appears as Nicolas Vasquez Vallin in the baptism of his daughter Maria Iphigenia. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NP11-Y4Z My hypothesis is that he is the same Nicolas Vasquez Vallin that married Petrona de Islas Calderon 28 Jul 1692. Nicolas Ballin also had children with Petra or Petrona Olivares. Petra, Petrona, and Petronila are interchangeable. Hopefully someone else here can clarify if these Petras are one woman, two women or three women with the same first name but different surnames.
Armando
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:47 PM, wrote:
Does any one have any info on both of these individuals.The only info that
i have from them both from Nochistlan Zacatecas Mexico, And i have their
son birth record Juan Ballin Ramires.Please anyone who has info.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1-15087-19061-21?**
cc=1410092&wc=6834962
Abram Flores
Bill
Thanks for this great info but im still sort of confused how many nicolas's were their in total?Did Nicolas Billan or Villan come from Aguascalientes in then later he migrate to Nochistlan?And how many Petras were there to.Do you know where i can get this book
Genealogía de Nochistlán, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales" por José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías,
Abram Flores
Bill and Abram:
I had the answer but I didn't realize it until I went back through my
records. There is a dispensa for Josefa daughter of Nicolás Vallín and
Petrona Ramirez and granddaughter of Victoria de Sotomayor.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18566-43995-45?cc=1874591&wc…
we have proof that the husband of Petrona Enríquez de Calderón
was also the husband of Petrona Ramirez. Based on the info you provided
with the date Petrona Enríquez de Calderón died, 4 Dec 1693, and the
approxinate date of the marriage of Nicolás and Petronila de Cabrera, 1698,
means she should be the same person as Petrona Ramirez because Nicolás and
Petrona Ramirez had the child I previously mentioned on 05 Dec 1701
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NP11-Y4Z They also had Rosa María in
1720 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N1PV-5M4
The unanswered question is whether or not Nicolás Vallín and Petra de
Olivares the same couple as Nicolás Vallín and Petrona Ramirez alias
Petronila de Cabrera
Saludos
Armando
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Bill Figueroa wrote:
> Abram and Armando:
>
> I have the following information in my database:
>
> Nicolás Vázquez Ballín (aka Nicolás Ballín) married Victoria de Montañez y
> Sotomayor 16 Aug 1663 in Aguascalientes. They had three children all born
> in Aguascalientes between 1663-1670 : Juan (b.1666), Bartholome (b. 1668)
> and Nicolás (b.1670). Their son Nicolás Ballin de Sotomayor, baptized 2
> Dec 1670 in Aguascalientes, married Petrona Enríquez de Calderón (aka Petra
> de Islas, aka Petronila de Islas y Calderón). Their marriage was recorded
> 26 Jun 1692 in Aguascalientes and a month later 28 Jul 1692 in Nochistlán.
>
> Sources:
>
> LDS Film 0299823 Marriages 1663-1702 Aguascalientes, Ags.
> LDS Film 0226725 Marriages 1691-1736 Nochistlán, Zac.
>
> Nicolás Ballín de Sotomayor and Petrona Enríquez de Calderón had two
> children, Bartholomé and Juan. Juan was baptized 23 Sep 1693 in
> Nochistlán. His mother died shortly after giving birth and was buried 4
> Dec 1693 in Nochistlán. According to Mary Lou Montagna, Nicolás Ballin de
> Sotomayor married Petronila de Cabrera in 1698. Some of the information in
> this message comes from "The Genealogy of Juan Montañez and his descendants
> in Aguascalientes, San Luis Potosí and Zacatecas," Published by the Society
> of Hispanic Historical and Ancestral Research, Journal IV, (c) 1998 edited
> by Mary Lou Montagna and Ophelia Marquez. Some of Mary Lou Montagna's
> information comes from correspondence with Jaime Holcombe. I have a paper
> copy somewhere but is lost in my files. Perhaps someone can provide a copy.
>
> Juan Ballin married Elvira Delgadillo 13 Jun 1721 in Nochistlán and had at
> least four children: Josepha, María, Juana-Gertrudis and Pablo-Joseph.
> María was baptized 22 Oct 1722 in Nochistlán.
>
> Nicolás Ballín (who married Petronila Ramírez and baptized a son named
> Juan in Nochistlán 24 May 1722) is probably related. More research to
> follow and document these lines is required. Recommended sources:
>
> "Genealogía de Nochistlán, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo
> XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales" por José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de
> Frías, and
> "Letters to Mary Lou Montagna" by Jaime Holcombe.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> BILL FIGUEROA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Armando"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Ballin Petrona Ramires
>
>
> Nicolas Ballin appears as Nicolas Vasquez Vallin in the baptism of his
> daughter Maria Iphigenia. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NP11-Y4ZMy hypothesis is that he is the same Nicolas Vasquez Vallin that married
> Petrona de Islas Calderon 28 Jul 1692. Nicolas Ballin also had children
> with Petra or Petrona Olivares. Petra, Petrona, and Petronila are
> interchangeable. Hopefully someone else here can clarify if these Petras
> are one woman, two women or three women with the same first name but
> different surnames.
>
> Armando
>
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:47 PM, wrote:
>
> Does any one have any info on both of these individuals.The only info that
> i have from them both from Nochistlan Zacatecas Mexico, And i have their
> son birth record Juan Ballin Ramires.Please anyone who has info.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1-15087-19061-21?**
> cc=1410092&wc=6834962<
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15087-19061-21?cc=1410092&wc…
> >
Armando and Abram:
The marriage dispensation extended by the Dioceses of Guadalajara to Ignacio Delgadillo and Josepha Ballin on 2 April 1731 confirms that Nicolás Ballin who married Petrona Ramírez was the son of Nicolás Vázquez Ballín and Victoria de Montañez y Sotomayor. The link provided by Armando proves it.
Recapping: Nicolás Vázquez Ballín (aka Nicolás Ballín) married Victoria de Montañez y Sotomayor 16 Aug 1663 in Aguascalientes. Victoria was from Sierra de Pinos, where she was raised by her uncle Joseph Martín de Sotomayor and his wife Anna Vicente (Victoria's half sister). Sierra de Pinos is fairly close to Aguascalientes. She married twice, first to Nicolás Vázquez Ballin and after he died to Andrés Ruiz de Esparza. Her son Nicolás Ballin de Sotomayor was baptized 2 Dec 1670 in Aguascalientes. In 1692 Nicolás married Petrona Enríquez de Calderón (aka Petra de Islas, aka Petronila de Islas y Calderón) who resided in Nochistlán. Their marriage was recorded 26 June 1692 in Aguascalientes and 28 July 1692 in Nochistlán. They settled in Nochistlán where they had two children, Bartholomé and Juan Ballin. Petrona died 4 Dec 1693, only 16 months after their wedding. Nicolás remarried about five years later when he was 28 years old. His second wife Petrona Ramírez had a child María Iphigenia, baptized 5 December 1701 in Nochistlán. Another child, Juan, was baptized 24 May 1722 in Nochistlán. Other children have also been identified.
I believe Petronila de Cabrera and Petra de Olivares are aliases of Petrona Ramírez. Just a gut feeling that needs to be proved. The next step is to find the marriage record of Nicolás Ballin and Petrona Ramírez, probably in Nochistlán.
The book "Genealogía de Nochistlán, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales" by José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías has been out of print for about 10 years. Unfortunately, José Luis is no longer with us. He died tragically in 2005 and, as far as I know, there are no plans to print a second edition. You can probably find a copy at a public library or Family History Center here in the US.
BILL FIGUEROA
Spanish Law or Custom 1770
Hola Ed,
Laws regarding slavery in New Spain were similar to laws in the US. First of all, Pablo Lucio would have to receive permission from Gertrudis’ owner to marry her. After their marriage, unless Pablo bought her freedom, or if her owner liberated her, she remained a slave. Any children that she gave birth to, while still a slave, would be born slaves and would remain the property of the owner, until they decided to sell or liberate them.
On the other hand, if a male slave married a free woman, he still had to receive permission from his owner, but their children would be born free.
Any records regarding the sale or liberation of slaves would be found in the protocolos notariales, rather than the church records. I don't know where the protocolos for Durango can be found - I have seen some in the Guadalajara protocolos, but they were very few.
I hope that helps!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Thanks, Manny, it rather confirms what I was thinking. Durango is missing many records, so I may not find what I need to look for, but I'll try. Again, gracias. Eduardo Maria Nissen Padilla.
Does anyone have any info on Victoria Vallin/Ballin she married Juan Sanchez Salgado on 25 Oct 1726 unfortunately their marriage record did not provide me with their parents.So if anyone has any info
The only record is a marriage dispensation of J. Manuel Sánchez Vázquez with Ricarda Yañez González in which it states that the sisters Maria Josefa and Victoria Vallin are daughters of Nicolás Vallín. I can't find the reference right now but perhaps someone else will be kind enough to supply it.
Victoria Vallin married to Juan Sanchez. Victoria Vallin is the daughter of Nicolas Vallin and Petrona Ramirez.
Nicolas is the son of Nicolas Vallin and Victoria de Sotomayor. So it seems that Victoria Vallin was named after her paternal grandmother Victoria Sotomayor.
Victoria Sotomayor is the daughter of Juan Montañes and Maria Sotomayor.
Juan Montañes is the son of Juan Montañes and Ana Vicente.
María Sotomayor is the daughter of Andres Martin Camacho and Maria de las Ruelas.
Josefa Manuela Vallin was also daughter of Nicolas Vallin and Petrona Ramirez. Josefa was married to Ygnacio Delgadillo.
Josefa and Ygnacio are the parents of Ygnacia Delgadillo y Vallin who married Juan Lucas Yañez.
Ygnacio Delgadillo is the son of Xptoval (Cristóbal) Delgadillo and Francisca Jil de Sotomayor
I am assuming that Ricarda Yañez González descends from Juan Lucas Yañez and Ygnacia Delgadillo y Vallin.
Nicolas Vallin (Ballin) that was married to Petrona Ramirez married a second time. His second wife is named Petrona De Islas.
I would like to see the dispensa record that Rick Fernández mentioned in order to gather more information on Maria Josefa Vallin and her descendants.
Happy Father’s Day,
Rick A. Ricci
Hola parientes, I am currently stuck. I am looking for any baptismal records for Rafael Duran. Rafael is my 4th great-grandfather.
Hola Rafael, Angelica and Rick,
I think I have found some related information about Santiago Duran and Estefana Escoto. For some time, I have tried to find a marriage record of the couple. By accident while looking for Santiago Duran I came up on this record on familysearch.com: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-6Z1G-1?i=74&wc=3P93-ZNL%3A147335801%2C147335802%2C149017601&cc=1804458. It is a marriage record of Santiago Medina and Estefana Escoto. The interesting thing about this record is that the parental information is very close to the records I have for Santiago Duran and Estefana Escoto. In Santiago’s case, my corroborated records show that Santiago’s parents were Rafael Duran and Dolores Aguilera and Estefana’s parents were Nepomuceno Escoto and Francisca Garcia. The record I have linked show Santiago as Santiago Medina and his parents as Rafael Medina and Dolores Aguilera, and Estefana’s as Nepomuceno Escoto and Francisca Garcia. Additionally, the linked record shows that they are living in San Pedro, an hacienda near Jalpa. All of my direct Duran ancestors lived in the Hacienda San Pedro.
I also have related records on Estefana Escoto. For instances, I have Estefana’s death record, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-95VR-9JJL?i=781&wc=MDP9-96D%3A204578601%2C204578002&cc=1916240. In the death record, it states that Idelfonso Hernandez, Estefana’s son-in-law, has reported the death of Estefana to the civil judge of Jalpa. Idelfonso was married to Maria Luz Duran, Estefana’s and Santiago Duran’s daughter.
So Santiago and Estefana were living in Hacienda San Pedro near Jalpa. One question I have is why would Santiago go under the surname Medina for the marriage, but then revert back to Duran? All their kids use the Duran surname. Another question I have is does anyone have any info on Medinas in Zacatecas or Aguascalientes that my have references to Rafael Medina?
Thanks,
Ernesto Duran
Saludos Ernesto,
Rafael Duran also went by Rafael Medina
Rafael Duran married Maria Dolores Aguilera the 23/Feb/1800 in Aguascalientes
Maria Dolores Aguilera’s parents are Juan Manuel Aguilera and Maria Luciana de Jesus Guerrero
====================================================================================
(1) Francisco Thomas Duran was married on 30//May/1712 in Guanajuato to Salvadora de Jesus Medina
(2) Juan Jose Francisco Hipólito Duran y Medina was married to Maria Ana Gertrudis Lopez Padilla 27/July/1763
(3) Jose Rafael Duran
This Jose Rafael Duran is probably your Rafael Duran aka Rafael Medina
Rick A. Ricci
Rick, this is a great find!! Thank you for your help. Do you have any referential links I can follow?
By the way, do we have any direct ancestors?
Saludos!
Ernesto
Saludos Ernesto,
You are most likely related to me through María Estefana Escoto Garcia. We still need to continue investigating to find the connection. I believe that we are related through the Marin.
Maria Estefana Escoto Garcia was baptized on New Year’s Day, 1/Jan/1815 at San Juan de Los Lagos, Jalisco by her parents Nepomuceno Escoto and Francisca Garcia. Nepomuceno and Francisca were married on 9/Feb/1814, also in San Juan de Los Lagos, Jalisco.
Nepomuceno is the son of Felipe Escoto and María Juaquina Marin. I believe that María Juaquina is related to my Marin De Anda ancestors.
Maria Francisca Garcia Navejas was baptized on 26/October/1795 in San Juan de Los Lagos parents Jose Margaro Garcia and Maria Josefa Navejas.
Image 127
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K3N1-8?i=126&cc=1874591
Rick A. Ricci
Thank you for this! I will continue my work too and share what I can find.
Ernie Duran
Hello Ernie,
Glad I could Help. Here are a couple tidbits on the family.
Maria Luciana de Jesus Guerrero Also used the surname Guerra.
Jose Margaro Garcia was also known as Margarito Garcia.
There are Padrinos with the surname De Anda Which leads me to believe that María Juaquina Marin is related to the Marin De Anda family. I believe that Juaquina Marin is related to Juan Manuel Marin married to Ana Maria De San Ramon de Anda. A search of this couple may reveal valuable clues. I would not be surprised if Joaquina Marin is a daughter of Juan Manuel Main and Ana María de San Ramon de Anda.
Good luck,
Rick A. Ricci
Rick, my brother had his DNA tested with Ancestry.com and it looks like I am descended from Jose Francisco Nepomuceno Escoto (page 332) whose parents are Jose Rafael Escoto and Bartola Flores. As the Ancestry TrueLines show I have relatives stemming from Jose Rafael Escoto and Maria Bartola Flores (with separate connections, relatives from Escoto and relatives from Flores).
Am I missing something?
Thanks,
Ernesto Duran
Both Escoto families are situated in San Juan de Los Lagos so they are most likely Connected
Rick A. Ricci
Good point, so it's more likely that Felipe Escoto is related to Jose Rafael Escoto (brothers?) and that's why it is showing up that way in the DNA lineage. Hmmm.
Ernesto
The information about the DNA is fantastic because now we can search Jose Rafael’s ancestry and see if we can find Clues to Felipe’s ancestry. You might be right that Felipe and Rafael are brothers, I also see a possibility of Felipe being the son Jose Rafael Escoto. In this scenario, your Nepomuceno is named after his uncle Francisco Nepomuceno Escoto. We need to do more research to find the exact relationship.
The Escoto from Sevilla were originally from Genoa. I have done a lot of research on this family in Castilla and Genoa.
Jose Rafael Escoto is the son of Jose Mariano Escoto Tovar y Elizalde and María German Barajas.
María Bartola Flores is the daughter of Jose Flores and Maria Antonia de Avalos.
Jose Mariano Escoto Is the son of Nicolas Escoto Tovar y Morales and Felipa Lopez de Elizalde.
Nicolas Escoto is the son of Ygnacio Escoto Tovar y Ortiz and Beatriz Morales
Ygnacio Escoto is the son of Antonio Escoto Tovar and Ynes Ortiz de Rodas
Maria Antonia Avalos, the mother of Maria Bartola Flores was married at least twice as she has at least one other husband.
Rick
There are previous posts that have to do with some ancestors of María Bartola Flores
María Bartola Flores is the daughter of Jose Flores and Maria Antonia de Avalos
María Antonia de Avalos is the daughter of Pedro de Avalos and Juana Olivares
Pedro de Avalos is the son of Miguel de Avalos and Maria Gutierrez (Baez?)
Pedro de Avalos is the son of Isabel de Avalos
Isabel de Avalos is the daughter of Beatriz Sanchez Mendoza
Miguel De Avalos y Villaseñor was married to Maria Gutierrez. I believe that Teresa Baez (aka Gutierrez) and Maria Gutierrez are the same person.
Miguel is the son of Isabel De Avalos y Sánchez (daughter of Maria Sanchez)
This family connects to the family in post: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24206?page=2
Thank you I will look that post up!
Ernesto
I want to share screenshots of the Ancestry DNA info.
Dear Ernie,
Here is Nepomuceno’s marriage record. It clearly shows that Nepomuceno is the son of Felipe and not Joseph Rafael:
https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…
Nepomuceno is the son of Felipe Escoto and María Juaquina Marin
Francisca Garcia is the daughter of Margarito (Margaro) Garcia and Maria Josefa Nabejas.
If Felipe was Jose Rafael Escoto’s brother then Nepomuceno would not descend from Bartola Flores. In combination with what you have found with DNA ancestry test results, it leads us to the conclusion that Felipe is the son of Jose Rafael Escoto and Maria Bartola Flores.
Another tidbit is that both the Escotos and the Marins have ancestors from Genoa. The Escotos and Marins descend from Genoese businessmen that went to Sevilla. These lines are why you show a little Italian AncestryDNA.
Rick
Rick and Rafael, so I went through baptismal records of Rafael Duran's offsprings again and found in my direct ancestor, Santiago Duran, abuelos paternos only Rafaela Duran listed. With the other children, the baptismal record only listed "padres no conocidos" for the abuelos paternos.
In doing research on "padres no conocidos" I found that often the child will not take the father's last name if the child was born out of wedlock and instead will take the mother's last name. As a result, the child's baptismal record will often be noted in "bautismos de hijos naturales".
Great find Ernesto,
Finding the parents of someone who has a record stating “Padres no conocidos” is not impossible, but as you can see it takes a lot of work and often ends up without any positive results. Your research took you one step farther into your ancestral line and often because of the lack of a marriage record the trail ends there. But if you continue researching it is possible to continue the ancestral line.
You could try researching whether Rafael used any other surnames. Often someone that is illegitimate will later use his biological father’s surname in later records.
Wishing you the best of luck in your family research,
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Hello Ernesto,
Finding the parents of someone who has a record stating “Padres no conocidos” is not impossible, but it will take work. The most likely place to look for more information is to to go through all of his children’s records with a fine tooth comb. The first ones to look at are baptismal records.
Good luck,
Rick A. Ricci
Hello Rick, thanks for that suggestion. I will give that a try. If I find anything I will let everyone know in case it is helpful for anyone else.
Thanks,
Ernesto Duran
I was born in Aguascalientes, Ags. but live in Texas, and from my mother have been able to determine that my maternal grandmother was born in El Terrero de la Labor c1930 and died 1977, and that her mother was born c1903 and died 1994 within the same geographical area. My maternal grandfather was also born in El Terrero de la Labor c1925 but i do not know his d.o.b. yet but he died @ 2 years ago.
I am still researching their pedigree charts to verify relations. Verbal accounts show that my maternal grandmother was a twin and had at least 5 siblings and that her mother had over 9 siblings all from Ojocaliente or Calvillo area.
My maternal family's name "according to my mother" is de Loera and not Loera. My paternal surname is Alatorre but I am still trying to determine if from Zacatecas or Aguascalientes.
If you have any questions do not hesitate to let me know.
Cordially,
Karina Alatorre de Loera
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Karina:
Welcome to the group. I am sure you will find many people who can help you with your research in this group.
As I have told other people, it is very important to be specific of people you are looking for. Your message does not include any names... only surnames. Your file folder has very scant information. In order for members here to point you to possible leads it is important that you share specific information including full names, approximate dates (of birth, marriage) and place names.
What were your grandmothers' names?
You wrote:
I was born in Aguascalientes, Ags. but live in Texas, and from my mother have been able to determine that my maternal grandmother was born in El Terrero de la Labor c1930 and died 1977, and that her mother was born c1903 and died 1994 within the same geographical area. My maternal grandfather was also born in El Terrero de la Labor c1925 but i do not know his d.o.b. yet but he died @ 2 years ago.
I am still researching their pedigree charts to verify relations. Verbal accounts show that my maternal grandmother was a twin and had at least 5 siblings and that her mother had over 9 siblings all from Ojocaliente or Calvillo area.
My maternal family's name "according to my mother" is de Loera and not Loera. My paternal surname is Alatorre but I am still trying to determine if from Zacatecas or Aguascalientes.
If you have any questions do not hesitate to let me know.
Cordially,
Karina Alatorre de Loera
Hello Dianne Godinez,
I have told you before that IMO you are one of "the good guys" on the Nuestros Ranchos
e-list. That has never been more evident than today! I have just finished catching up with the posts of the last week or so. I was shocked to see such incredible ignorance being espoused on the list and even more shocked that apparently the list moderator did not see fit to take a position against elitest, classist, racist and ignorant commentary. As a person who has spent many years in San Diego supporting nonprofit organizations which provide social/human services to the Latino population and as a supporter of the ACLU, I find Vicente's comments and those of his admirers/supporters totally repugnant. Unfotunately, there have always been certain people who need to demonize other groups in order to feel good about themslves.
I then experienced such a dramatic & refreshing contrast as I read your posts which contain the usual good natured, helpful and supportive tenor. I say BRAVO to you and the others on this list who model such laudable traits.
Regards,
Michael Bravo
p.s.
And for the naysayers, no, I am not a disgruntled "indio". In fact I am dna confirmed "european" both paternal & maternal. Mother from Jalisco and father from Guanajuato.
As my DNA testing confirms my Mexican heritage (patrilineal) as pure Indian, thanks for sticking up for us peons!
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S. Cellular
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bernard Lopez
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:54:19
To:patricia burton , research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
Hello Dianne Godinez,
I have told you before that IMO you are one of "the good guys" on the Nuestros Ranchos
e-list. That has never been more evident than today! I have just finished catching up with the posts of the last week or so. I was shocked to see such incredible ignorance being espoused on the list and even more shocked that apparently the list moderator did not see fit to take a position against elitest, classist, racist and ignorant commentary. As a person who has spent many years in San Diego supporting nonprofit organizations which provide social/human services to the Latino population and as a supporter of the ACLU, I find Vicente's comments and those of his admirers/supporters totally repugnant. Unfotunately, there have always been certain people who need to demonize other groups in order to feel good about themslves.
I then experienced such a dramatic & refreshing contrast as I read your posts which contain the usual good natured, helpful and supportive tenor. I say BRAVO to you and the others on this list who model such laudable traits.
Regards,
Michael Bravo
p.s.
And for the naysayers, no, I am not a disgruntled "indio". In fact I am dna confirmed "european" both paternal & maternal. Mother from Jalisco and father from Guanajuato.
Mr. Lopez,
Wanted to add to my agreement with your position. Just watched "The Kite Runner" last night and was reminded of how racial and cultural minorities have been and will continue to be persecuted and "holocausted" as long as our species abides by "Us and Them" attitudes. The Hazaras of Afghanistan are the Jews of WWII Europe, the Armenians of WWI Turkey and the Native Americans of colonial New Spain. We fancy ourselves more "civilized" than our forebears yet continue to condone behavior and beliefs that belie our true nature as human beings. Thank you for your commentary.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S. Cellular
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bernard Lopez
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:54:19
To:patricia burton , research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
Hello Dianne Godinez,
I have told you before that IMO you are one of "the good guys" on the Nuestros Ranchos
e-list. That has never been more evident than today! I have just finished catching up with the posts of the last week or so. I was shocked to see such incredible ignorance being espoused on the list and even more shocked that apparently the list moderator did not see fit to take a position against elitest, classist, racist and ignorant commentary. As a person who has spent many years in San Diego supporting nonprofit organizations which provide social/human services to the Latino population and as a supporter of the ACLU, I find Vicente's comments and those of his admirers/supporters totally repugnant. Unfotunately, there have always been certain people who need to demonize other groups in order to feel good about themslves.
I then experienced such a dramatic & refreshing contrast as I read your posts which contain the usual good natured, helpful and supportive tenor. I say BRAVO to you and the others on this list who model such laudable traits.
Regards,
Michael Bravo
p.s.
And for the naysayers, no, I am not a disgruntled "indio". In fact I am dna confirmed "european" both paternal & maternal. Mother from Jalisco and father from Guanajuato.
I am sadden at the fact that my ancestors were such cruel people. After learning Spanish History it's quite bloody of wars and death very much unorthodox to say the least. But I think it was the fact of European establishment. It is likely they saw anything non European as a threat and basically had tp "wipe out" that threat to them. I do admit to this day no matter what in Mexico today the natives are still being robbed to this day. I can say my family wasn't the most nicest in Huanusco or Los Altos and Calvillo. But neverthe less I was taught to recognise and love and honor my roots regardless. A lot of people do get offened and mad when they find out "yo soy Espanol" but I know i am not one of the crazy killing spaniards those ae long gone. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger.
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Hi Michael!
Thanks for your support on this issue. I wanted to touch base with you since
my family is also Jalisciense y Guanajuatense and I too am a defender of
intl. human rights - former educator & now legal advocate. I look forward to
seeing you here!
Carolina M. Ramos
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From: siriuslr@hotmail.comTo: genealogia-mexico@googlegroups.comSubject: [Genealogia.org.mx] 19961 RE: De Alva MartinDate: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 00:16:34 -0600
Disculpen estoy atorada con el matrimonio y nacimiento de José Martin De Alva y Encarnación Enriquez en Tepatitlán su hija Juana Maria de Alva es mi Bisabuela casada con Simon de la Mora Martin casados el 31 ago 1864, Simón es hijo de Rudecindo de la Mora y Dorotea Martin, según yo Rudecindo es hijo de Juan maria Reducindo de la Mora y Gertrudis Gallegos esta última hija de Carlos Gallegos y Maria Manuela de la Camara y Menoyo (ella de Nochistan). Juan maria de la Mora no sé si es hijo de Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza y Margarita Martin del Campo o de Juan Maria de la Mora y Maria Ygnacia Martin Según yo esta Dorotea es hija de Jose Antonio Martin y Francisca Ochoa y sus padres (Miguel Martin y Josefa De la Torre) y Salvador Manuel de Ochoa y Ana Martin (11 may 1772 en las cruces) no les pido que me regalen su trabajo solo que me digan si voy bien por ahi...es que soy media nueva en esta región..Agradezco de antemano su ayuda..Leticia R.
¿Tus fotos son un desorden? La solución a tus males se llama Galería fotográfica de Windows Live --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~* Recibes este mensaje porque estás suscrito al Grupo de Google: "Genealogía de México". * Nuestra pagina web oficial la encuentras en http://www.genealogia.org.mx * Si quieres publicar en este grupo escribe a: Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com (Se prefiere que no incluyas todo el email al que respondes). * Para anular tu suscripción a este grupo envía un email a: Genealogia-Mexico-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com * Modifica tus preferencias en http://groups.google.com.mx/group/Genealogia-Mexico
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P.D. Checa las nuevas fotos de mi Space
http://home.services.spaces.live.com/
Hola Leticia, yo también quiero saber quienes son los padres de José Martín de Alba y Encarnación Enríquez, pero hasta ahora no lo encuentro; en cuanto a que si van bien tus datos, te digo que yo tengo una diferencia contigo, pues yo tengo Juan María de la Mora, es hijo de Miguel de la Mora y María Petra de Hermosillo y no de Juan y Margarita, los cuales son sus abuelos. De ahí en adelante todo va bien.
Me gustaría saber que mas datos tienes de Salvador Manuel Ochoa Garibay, pues me faltan saber sus padres; y saber tu línea de los Altos hasta tí.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search premia tus búsquedas, llévate hasta ¡Un Auto!
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Hola Jorge,
Mi Padre Mario Reynoso(D.F) Ballesteros(Oaxaca) es hijo de Carmen Ballesteros De la Mora hija de Eberarda De la Mora De Alva y
Lucio Guadalupe Ballesteros; Eberarda de la Mora es hija de Juana Maria de Alva y de Simon de la Mora Martin casados el 31
ago 1864, Simón es hijo de Rudecindo de la Mora y Dorotea Martin,
Rudecindo es hijo de Juan maria Reducindo de la Mora y Gertrudis Gallegos esta última hija de Carlos Gallegos y Maria Manuela
de la Camara y Menoyo (ella de Nochistan) , Dorotea es hija de Jose Antonio Martin y Francisca
Ochoa y sus padres (Miguel Martin y Josefa De la Torre) y Salvador Manuel de Ochoa y Ana Martin (11 may 1772 en las cruces) .
Estamos en contacto.. pronto subiré lo que tengo de los Reynoso Saludos Leticia R.
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search premia tus búsquedas, llévate hasta ¡Un Auto!
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
------Original Message------
From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cosme de la Villa Bugarin
Sent: May 25, 2010 10:29 PM
Gus:
I have not seen the marriage record of Cosme and Maria, so I don't know if it mentions the birthplace of Cosme or not. It may be worth ordering the record from Salt Lake to see if it does.
It is an interest conjecture to make that both parties would be from Galicia.
As you know the couple was married on 6 Jan 1676 in the Asuncion parrish, Mexico, Distrito Federal, MEXICO. The marriage is on Film 35269.
Greetings to All.
I’m looking for information on Maria Bonificia Sarmento originaria de Sayula, Jalisco. She married Jose Antonio Aguilar on the 4 Jul 1796 in Tonila, Jalisco. Her parents were Juan Sn. Pedro Sarmiento and Maria Guadalupe Garcia both originarios de Sayula Jalisco. I would appreciate any information you might
have on this family.
Saludos,
Carlos Yturralde
P.S. Arturo, thank you.
Hello all,
My name is Christopher Barrios de Leon. My family is from two or three haciendas (San Jose de Llanetes, San Antonio de Sauceda, and San Mateo) between Fresnillo and Valparaiso. They came to the US around the early 1900's. They stopped in Vaughn, New Mexico, Flagstaff, Arizona, and Silver City, Utah. Some of the familia moved to Blackwell, Oklahoma and some went to Michigan.
I am looking for the parents of my ggggrandmother, Urzina Hernandez. She was probably born in the 1830's or 1840's as she is the second wife of Cayetano Borjon who was born in abt 1825. I am related to the following families from this area: Borjons, Rincons, de Leons, Guererros, Ricos, Montellanos, Betancourts, Arias',Mesas,Lunas, Garcias, Mergils, Buenos, Magallanes',Amaros, Gonzalez',Hernandez',Carrillos, Laras, Villavencencios, Amayas, Santos',Margils,Buenos,Magallanes, Amaros, Gonzales,Hernandez,and last but not least Barrios'. I thank you in advance for your time and consideration.
Hola, a todos ,
estoy buscando informacion de mi tatarabuelo se llamaba LAZARO LUCIA . nacio en ciudad guzman jalisco y se caso con MARIA JOSEFA HERNANDEZ. Aprosimadamente en 1828
Tambien busco de JUAN ANDRES SALOME JALOMO se caso con MARIA JULIANA aproximadamente en 1772 en ciudad
Guzman Jalisco.
si alguien sabe por favor contestenme.
Martha Gomez.
Hello!
I am researching my family names, Valades and Marchan, all from Aguascalientes.So far, this is what I have found:
1.Great-Great-Great Grandfather, Juan De Dios Marchan (unknown date of birth/death) married Maria Marcellina Gonzalez (unknown date of birth/death) in Aguascalientes.
2 July 5, 1790: Juan & Marcellina had daughter, Ciriaca Paula Marchan baptized at Nuestra Senora De Belen in Aguascalientes.More than likely, this would also have been her date of birth. (Source: FamilySearch).
3.Unknown date: Ciriaca married Manuel Valades.
4.Unknown date: Manuel & Ciraca had son,Guillermo Valades in Aguas.
5.Unknown date: Guillermo married Maria Del Refugio Cruz in Aguas.Had 2 sons, Geronimo & Telesforo..
6.Oct. 1, 1859: Geronimo Valades Cruz was born. Baptized at El Senor Del Encino Church.(Source: FamilySearch)
Jan 5, 1866: Telesforo Valades Cruz was born.He was baptized at El Senor Del Encino Church in Aguas. on same day. (Source: Have copy of baptismal certificate.)
8.1899: Telesforo married Rafaela Hernandez (b 10-24-1893, d 11-9-1969). Telesforo & Rafaela had 4 children. One was my mother.
Trying to find relatives of Geronimo. According to my mother, my grandfather, Telesforo, ran away from his home in Mexico around 1874 and lost all contact with his family and brother.
If anyone has any information on any of the above relatives, please let me know. Any information would be appreciated. . Thank you!
Hi! My name is Dolores. First thank you for accepting my application. We basically found our direct line on my father's father's side, but we are interested in finding any extended family. We are looking for information of the brothers and sisters of Jose Maria Resendez from Zacatecas we do know he had two boys Agustin and Manuel,but dont know if there were more. Also any information on my moms side. Family is from Rio Grande Zacatecas. We only know of Maria Fanco and two of her children Pabla and Juan Castanon. My mom said they kidnapped my grandmother Engracia Castanon born 04-16-1908 from her mother Concepcion Orosco (Juan is her father) when she was about 6 months old and brought her to the U.S. Both sides of my family ended up in El Paso, Texas. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to enjoying the group. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18256
Hi Dolores,
I'm a Castanon who's ancestors were from Jerez, Zacatecas. I don't recognize the names but will keep watch..
Linda Castanon-Long in Boulder City, NV
--- On Thu, 12/10/09, D R wrote:
From: D R
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 5:54 PM
Hi! My name is Dolores. First thank you for accepting my application. We basically found our direct line on my father's father's side, but we are interested in finding any extended family. We are looking for information of the brothers and sisters of Jose Maria Resendez from Zacatecas we do know he had two boys Agustin and Manuel,but dont know if there were more. Also any information on my moms side. Family is from Rio Grande Zacatecas. We only know of Maria Fanco and two of her children Pabla and Juan Castanon. My mom said they kidnapped my grandmother Engracia Castanon born 04-16-1908 from her mother Concepcion Orosco (Juan is her father) when she was about 6 months old and brought her to the U.S. Both sides of my family ended up in El Paso, Texas. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to enjoying the group. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18256
Dolores, almost forgot, when you are checking for Resendez also check the spelling as Recendes and Recendez, that's how it reads in my records for that surname in Zacatecas and Jalisco... just a thought
Linda
--- On Thu, 12/10/09, D R wrote:
From: D R
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 5:54 PM
Hi! My name is Dolores. First thank you for accepting my application. We basically found our direct line on my father's father's side, but we are interested in finding any extended family. We are looking for information of the brothers and sisters of Jose Maria Resendez from Zacatecas we do know he had two boys Agustin and Manuel,but dont know if there were more. Also any information on my moms side. Family is from Rio Grande Zacatecas. We only know of Maria Fanco and two of her children Pabla and Juan Castanon. My mom said they kidnapped my grandmother Engracia Castanon born 04-16-1908 from her mother Concepcion Orosco (Juan is her father) when she was about 6 months old and brought her to the U.S. Both sides of my family ended up in El Paso, Texas. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to enjoying the group. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18256
Hello everyone,
It is time to introduce myself, my name is Saul Navarro and I have been researching my family tree for half a year. The places of my research include Nochistlan, Toyahua, Moyahua, Juchipila, all in Zacatecas, Mexticacan, LLano Grande, Jahualica,in Jalisco. The last names in my research include Navarro, Garcia, Gutierrez, Mejia, Mexia, Megia, Quesada, Perez, Roque, Florez, Chavez, Leonardo, Guzman, Donato, Leon, Legaspi, Arambulo, Gonzalez, Vasquez, Yniguez, Estrada, Rios, De Campa, Zepulbeda, Rivera. I have more relatives that lived in Nochistlan Zacatecas than elsewhere, so the bulk of my search is there. My paternal grandfather was Jose Anastacio Navarro Perez baptized on the 02 Apr. 1893, born in Toyahua.
He was married to Ma Catalina Garcia Gutierrez (date unknown), her parents were Presciliano Garcia Quesada bapt.(06 Jan 1867) married on (10 Jan. 1887) to Macedonia Gutierrez Perez bapt.(13 Sept 1867)in Mexticacan Jal. My g-grandfather was Jose Tomas Navarro Mejia bapt.on (22 Dec 1867) married to Maria Andrea Perez Chavez bapt.(02 Dec. 1868)in Nochistlan unknown date of marriage. My gg-grandfther was Jose Bartolome Navarro Roque bapt. (29 Aug.1841) married on (07 Feb. 1865) to Maria Dionicia Mejia Florez bapt. (18 Apr. 1852) in Nochistlan. Dionicia's parents were Pio Mejia Guzman and Maria Socorro Florez Donato unknown Bapt., marriage dates. My ggg-grandfather was Cirilo Navarro Perez (no date) married to Maria Yrinea Roque Leonardo(no bapt. date) on the 02 of May 1838 in Nochistlan Zac. My gggg-grandfather was Rafael Navarro (date unknown) married to Maria Catalina Perez (date unknown). I have the names of all my sixteen paternal grandparents but no
dates of bapt. just that my gggg-grandfather Jose Pablo Perez married Maria Ysabel Legaspi on the 31 May 1823 in Nochistlan Zac. I have names and bapt dates for their children. On the maternal side of my family tree is my grandfather Lorenzo Arambulo Born in el Llano Grande Jalisco, he married (date unknown) Maria Sabas Vasquez bapt. (12 Dec 1897). My grandmother's parents were Pablo Vasquez (date unknown) married to Gregoria Yniguez (date unknown)and that is all I know about them. My g-grandfather is Jose Blas Arambula Estrada bapt. (07 Feb. 1865) married (date unknown) to Diega Gonzalez Garcia bapt. (14 Nov 1873) my guess is in Nochistlan. My gg-grandfather was Francisco Arambula (date unknown) married on (25 Nov.1863) to Maria Victoria Estrada (date unknown). My g-grandmother Diega's parents were Lazaro Gonzales Mexia (date unknown) married on (13 Feb 1863) to Maria Del Refugio Garcia Rios (date unknown). Ma. Refugio's parents were Antonio Garcia and
Tomasa Rios no dates. Lazaro's parents were Jose Simon Gonzales Campa married on (27 Jan. 1836) to Maria De La Cruz Mexia Zepulbeda bapt. date (16 Sept 1816) in Nochistlan Zac. Maria De la Cruz's parents were Rafael Mexia Rivera (date unknown) married on (27 Jul. 1815)to Maria De Jesus Zepulbeda (date unknown)in Nochistlan. Jose Simon's parents were Jose Dionicio Gonzales (date unknown) married on (26 Aug. 1807) to Maria Anastacia De La Campa (unknown) in Nochistlan Zac. Rafael's Parents were Pedro Megia (date unknown) married on (22 May. 1774)in Nochistlan to Petra Rivera (date unknown) Last are the parents of Maria De Jesus Zepulbeda and they were Francisco Zepulbeda married to Ana maria Perez and no dates. I hope that this is enough information for my primos to recognize the family line.
If anyone can help with the missing dates that would be much appreciated.
Thankyou
Saul Navarro
Lety, pues yo pense que tu esposo es el que dice xalos 68 porque parece que tu lo pusiste cuando me escribiste.
pero bueno he estado viendo el archivo de tu esposo y tiene todos los apellidos que to tengo incluso
Franco, Navarro, Ochoa . pero yo tengo otros nombres tambien tengo a una petra ochoa te voy a mandar mi paf para que lo vea tu esposos ok?
entonces tu eres miembro de la iglesia verdad.? yo tambien y tambien estoy como voluntaria indexando bueno mas bien soy arbitraria.
y tambien sabes de la nueva pagina de la iglesia New family search?
Seria padre ver que ramas los unen , no yo no soy miembro de la iglesia pero admiro todo su labor, como no soy miembro no pudo accesar al new family search...y en lo que pueda cooperar..aunque te digo que no me puedo desplazar mucho porque tengo hijos chicos...saludos!
>
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Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
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Con razon no tienes mucha informacion , como son lugares y fechas pero con solo los nombres que tienes metelos en la pagina que sale de pilot
osea en la forma y tu veras como te va a salir muchisima informacion por el internet si no sabes yo te digo . tambien puedes mirar hoja por hoja del censo de 1930 de cualquier estado de la republica mexicana. y ayer te emvie el paf lo recibiste ? para que lo vea tu esposo.
----- Original Message -----
From: "leticia reynoso"
To: "s s"
Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2010 9:39:00 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] mgomez
Seria padre ver que ramas los unen , no yo no soy miembro de la iglesia pero admiro todo su labor, como no soy miembro no pudo accesar al new family search...y en lo que pueda cooperar..aunque te digo que no me puedo desplazar mucho porque tengo hijos chicos...saludos!
>
_________________________________________________________________
Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx
No,.. no me llegó tu paf, mándamelo porfa a mi correo directo porque cuando los subes al grupo no te mandan el archivo adjunto....y uy yo intercambié información con Alessandro hace un par de años..que padrs que en esta marcha ahí nos vamos encontrando..saludos, voy a hacer eso que me dices del family a ver que encuentro..gracias Lety
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Hi,
My name is Barbara Guerrero & I am researching the Guerrero surname, particularly that of my maternal grandfather.
His name was Nicolas Valdez Guerrero. He was born 26 January 1898. His family lived in Guadalajara but he was born in Yahualica.
He married my grandmother Rita Quijada in 1917. They lived in Superior, Arizona where he worked for the Magma Copper Co until his death in 1953. I want to find information on his parents & his siblings.
His father's name was Jesus Guerrero.
I have searched records provided by Family Search & the Family History Center in Tucson but I have not been able to find any information so far.
This is all the information I have so any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Barbara Guerrero
Hello Barbara -
It would help to know where he married your mother, as well.
Rudy
--- On Mon, 3/15/10, Barbara Guerrero wrote:
From: Barbara Guerrero
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:43 AM
Hi,
My name is Barbara Guerrero & I am researching the Guerrero surname, particularly that of my maternal grandfather.
His name was Nicolas Valdez Guerrero. He was born 26 January 1898. His family lived in Guadalajara but he was born in Yahualica.
He married my grandmother Rita Quijada in 1917. They lived in Superior, Arizona where he worked for the Magma Copper Co until his death in 1953. I want to find information on his parents & his siblings.
His father's name was Jesus Guerrero.
I have searched records provided by Family Search & the Family History Center in Tucson but I have not been able to find any information so far.
This is all the information I have so any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Barbara Guerrero
Thanks for giving me the oportunity of being a part of nuestros ranchos.I am very eager to start with my search for information of my ancestors .I have a very intresting true story to share ,first of all my name is Francisco Rubio ,I was born in 1970 when i was born my father was 80 years of age ,there are three brothers total born of my mother Amparo Rodriguez and my father Jesus Rubio my father was born in 1890 in EX-hacienda De San Pedro ,Huanusco,Zacatecas .I know for a fact that His Father my grandfather's name is Don Juan Antonio Rubio born in 1850 in Calvillo ,Aguascalientes .Can anyone give me more information about Juan Antonio Rubio an Administrador of La Hacienda de La luz,Huanusco,and My deceased father Jesus Rubio Flores who was a Presidente Municipal of Tabasco ,Zacatecas in 1938-1939 and any information of the Rubio families from that part of the region.Thanks
FELIX MUNOZ GUERRERO
Pues mi bisabuelo nacio en el salitre cerca de Tlachichila y lo bautizaron en Nochistlan, era Jose Felix Macias Hernandez ( Macias Hernandez)
Just came across this old post. I'm a descendent of Nicolas Llamas and Magdalena Robles, parents of Maria de la Rosa Llamas. Always good to find some connections.
Which state in Mexico? My Llamas are from the Jerez, Zacatecas., and it was in the very early 1700s. Marge Vallazza. PM me if you think we have a family connection.
mayangrl@sonic.net wrote:
>Just came across this old post. I'm a descendent of Nicolas Llamas and
>Magdalena Robles, parents of Maria de la Rosa Llamas. Always good to find
>some connections.
>
Hola prim@s,
I hope you and your loved ones are all safe and well during these trying times!
Hola
Manny Diez,
I’m so excited to read your detailed synopsis of the Gutierrez Duron family history. Last week, I was revisiting & updating some of my research re: the two marriages of Francisco Gutierrez Duron as well as records for the offspring of both unions. I’m related to these families thru the marriage of my matrilineal 6th great grandmother, Ana Cristina Marquez to Juan Faustino Duron (aka: Ruiz Colmenero), son of José Manuel Duron...a son of Francisco’s 2nd marriage to Beatriz Rodriguez de Vera. I’ve long been intrigued & puzzled by the alternative use of the Ruiz Colmenero combination in some records, and I very much appreciate the points you’ve laid out for these possible surname connections! I have my own research on the Francisco Gutierrez Duron families posted in WikiTree, beginning with Francisco at the following link: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gutiérrez_Durón-11. If you click the dark green “Descendants” button, it presents a generational overview of all the records I currently have uploaded, along with sourcing links. I’ll definitely be reviewing my research to compare our descendant lists with an eye to missing or alternative records/sources. BTW: You & I were in contact several years ago re: Ysidro de Udave, my maternal 8th great grandfather. It looks like we’re distantly related primos thru Francisco Gutierrez Duron! Best regards❣️Consuelo Udave
I just noticed that on 19 Nov 1652, in Aguascalientes, my g8 Andres de Ayala, agreed to pay Capitan Marcos Ruiz Colmenero 500 pesos for the same amount loaned to him. This places Marcos Ruiz Colmenero in Aguascalientes as early as late-1652 - right around the time Francisco Gutierrez Duron would’ve been born.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Alex!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Dang, I wish I knew spanish. Looks like there is far more information in the documents I look at besides parents, ages, residencies etc. Good work Manny! Even though I'm not a descendant to these people, your posts always put things in context and I thoroughly enjoy reading them!
Francisco Ibarra y Catalina