Nuestros Ranchos Site

Just a note, his name was De La Campa y Cos. Many of his relatives can be found in Aguascalientes, Jalisco and Puebla. They all came from Cantabria, Spain. He did not have any male descendants and only his daughters succeded him as Countess.

Daniel MdTC

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 21, 2014, at 3:20 PM, zacatecano020@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I was looking through defuntos of the year 1780 in our village of Huejuquilla, Jalisco, Mexico and found a defunto of a mulatto de is of "Juan De La Campo" of Rancho Dolores:
>
> http://oi58.tinypic.com/11gpx79.jpg
>
> source:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18449-55910-17?cc=1874591&wc…
>
>
> As you know that nearby about 1 hour on car on the road (in today's standard of travel, there is a Hacienda called, "Hacienda De San Mateo" that was the favorite Hacienda of the Conde "Don Fernando De La Campo y Cos (1676 - 1742)
>
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_de_la_Campa

Hola!! mis antepasados son edivigis pasillas y antonio amaro. Yo no he encontrado nada mas acerca de ellos si tienes info o sabes donde puedo buscar me gustria saber si no es molestia que me ayudaras, estoy preparando para mis padres la informacion de la familia de regalo de navidad. Ojala me puedas ayudar !! de antemano gracias!
barbara melendez

Me imagino que has encontrado la información en FamilySearch? la región que mencionas Múzquiz tiene muy pocos registros, lo cual puede darse a que es un poblado nuevo ó que estaba bajo la jurisdicción de otra iglesia, algo que te puede ayudar es buscar por el lado histórico cuales son las parroquias mas antiguas, en lo personal desconozco la historia de Coahuila, entonces parte de la Nueva Vizcaya, pero generalmente las ciudades mas grandes y antiguas poseen mayor numero de datos. Suerte!

just wanted to share that I have records where the wife is still having children at 49 so child bearing years seemed to have been longer in the old days. I also have a record where the man was 47 when he remarried a 14 year old, he already had 8 children and together they had another 11 children.
Linda in Olympia, Wa.
On Monday, May 19, 2014 5:07 AM, "zacatecano020@hotmail.com" wrote:

My chance I ran across the baptismo of the wife of my Great Great Grandfather Patricio Madera.

Her name is Maria Dimas De La Paz, "Espanola" from Rancho Del "Guitasti"? and was baptized in 1819 our village Huejuquilla, Jalisco, Mexico.  Her parents are:  Maximo De La Paz and Agotona Ledesma:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2copwfb.jpg

To verify that she is correctly the wife of my Great Great Grandfather Patricio Madera, here is a baptism record of a son they had name Julian Madera (1859) that is the brother of my Great Grandfather Calixto Madera.  And it lists parents of Julian Madera are Patricio Madera and Maria Dimas De La Paz.  Paternal Grandparents are Juan Benancio Madera and Geronima Fernandez.  Maternal Grandparents are Maximo De La Paz and Agotona Ledesma:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2qa1fyc.jpg

So when Julian Madera was born Patricio Madera (born in 1792) was 67 years old and Maria Dimas De La Paz was 40 years old

Hi Donna,
I have to go to school
now, so this is going to be kind of quick and not very thorough, since I don’t
have time to go through all the marriage and baptism records. And, I’m leaving
out tons of dates, but, I can still give you a little more information. Also, I’m
not sure how familiar you are with family search but, you’ll get a lot farther
in your search if you look here: https://familysearch.org/search

I did find your last post on NR and it looks like there may have been a glitch of some kind because I see you posted your request on May 11th and I checked my email and your post isn't on the digest for that day or the next day. Maybe, someone can look into that. I do see George
provided you with information on Francisco Acevedo and Florencia Nava, so I’ll
skip them, since I don’t have a lot of time. I too agree with George that those
are your correct ancestors even though you’re missing three of the children. I’ll
jump right to Benito Mercado and Longina Enriquez. If you look at the Maria
Mercado’s baptism on 29 Jan 1904 in San Juan Bautista, Tepetongo, Zacatecas
here: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15529-24806-42?cc=1804458&wc…
You can see that Maria
is listed as the legitimate daughter of Benito Mercado and Longina Enriquez.
Her paternal grandparents are Juan Mercado and Petra Borrego. Her maternal
grandparents are Juan Enriquez and Ysabel Quesada.
 
Benito Mercado’s
parents Juan Mercado and Petra Borrego were married 10 Feb 1866 in San Juan
Bautista, Tepetongo, Zacatecas: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15529-92287-20?cc=1804458&wc…

According to the
marriage, Juan Mercado is the son of Agustin Mercado and Lugarda Vasquez.  Petra Borrego is the daughter of Rafael
Borrego and Diega ____? I can’t quite tell what Diega’s last name is on the marriage
record but if you look at the baptism of Benito Mercado which took place in
Tepetongo on 24 Mar 1873, you can see her name is Diega Espinosa: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15529-103443-62?cc=1804458&w…
 
Juan Mercado’s parents
Agustin Mercado and Lugarda Vasquez were married 16 Jan 1834 in San Juan Bautista,
Tepetongo, Zacatecas: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15268-41725-18?cc=1804458&wc…
 
The wedding of Agustin
Mercado and Lugarda Vasquez doesn’t list the parents but they baptized about 10
kids so you should be able to find out their parent’s names quite easily.
 
Back to Longina
Enriquez, her parents Juan Enriquez and Ysabel Quesada married 19 Feb 1871 in
Tepetongo: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15528-36010-96?cc=1804458&wc…

According to the
marriage, the parents of Juan Enriquez are Santa Ana Enriquez and Agapita
Gonzales. The parents of Ysabel Quesada are Pedro Quesada and Lugarda Salmeron.
 
Santa Ana Enriquez and
Agapita Gonzales were married 25 May 1843 in Tepetongo: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15268-39699-8?cc=1804458&wc=…
According to the
marriage record, Santa Ana Enriquez is the son of Antonio Enriquez and Maria de
Jesus Ortiz. Agapita Gonzalez is the daughter of Francisco Gonzales and Maria
Cosme de Acevedo.
 
Pedro Quesada and
Lugarda Salmeron were married in Colotlan, Jalisco on 22 May 1839: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18452-64379-36?cc=1874591&wc…
 
According to the
marriage record, Pedro Quesada is the legitimate son of Vicente Quesada and
Guadalupe Nava.  Lugarda Salmeron is the
daughter of Bernardino Salmeron and ____ Flores. I can’t tell what her first
name is. It’s listed as Adama and Adacta and a couple other things on family
search, including the one on Lugarda Salmeron’s baptism certificate that looks
like it says Danita, but, I don’t think that’s what it says either. Maybe someone
else can tell what it says: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18623-1136-11?cc=1874591&wc=…
 
Lugarda Salmeron’s
parents, Bernardino Salmeron and _____ Flores were married on 20 Dec 1813 in
Colotlan, Jalisco: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18453-65149-35?cc=1874591&wc…

The parents on the
marriage record match the grandparents on Lugarda Salmeron’s baptism.
Bernardino Salmeron is listed as the son of Ricardo Salmeron and Maria Corona
Gonzalez. _____Flores is listed as the daughter of Dionicio Flores and
Gertrudis Mendoza. That’s about all I have time to write. I have to go now.
Hope this helps. But, I left out quite a lot, but, if you look on family search
you should be able to fill in all the blanks. Also, you should easily be able
to get well into the 1700s on most sides of this family. Good luck in your
search and sorry about the trouble you've been having.

 
Christopher de Cuellar

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 13:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: D G
> To: "general@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
> Message-ID:
>    <1400359538.40703.YahooMailNeo@web141206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Joseph,
>
> I'm pretty discouraged. I've been a member for almost a year now, submitted my family tree info in a folder and also on the Forum blog, (2x). I need help to see if anyone
has heard of any my family names in my tree, and if they know about the name Ismael being a girl's name, but to no avail. No one replies, I haven't gotten a single response from anyone since I've been a member.? I don't know why and what I'm doing wrong. Am I posting it in the wrong place or something? Can you help me? ?
>
> -Donna Gonzalez
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>

Hi Donna,

I'm sorry to hear about the trouble you've been having finding assistance on the forum. I honestly, don't recall seeing your posts in the past and I try to look at all the digests in case I can help. I can tell you from my own experience that everyone on the forum is very helpful and very knowledgeable. I'm not sure if you're doing something wrong, but there are some ways to improve your chances of getting a response. I notice you left the Subject header without changing it to something specific. I used to do that in the beginning and it definitely limits your chance of success. If you leave the subject header unchanged, it will be very easy to miss. Also, if you're sending a research request make sure you're sending it to the research list and not here to the general list. In addition, if you're wanting people to look at your tree, you can attach a link to your folder in your message, I've seen some new people do that and it makes it easy for members
to access your tree as opposed to having members searching alphabetically through the files to locate your tree. Also, asking about family names is kinda vague, it's much better to ask about a specific person or persons in a specific location. If you're interested in your grandparents or great grandparents or anyone else, you'll get a better response if you just provide us their specific names and where they're from. But, I will go look through your tree and see if I can assist you. As far as, Ismael is concerned, if it's written just like that I would definitely think it's a boys name. I have seen plenty of incidents where names like Maria and Ysabel are used as boys names or where girl sounding names have been made masculine to give to boys like Margarito or Doroteo, but, if it's just Ismael, I would say boys name. However, since you can add an "A" to other biblical names like Michael, Gabriel, or Raphael and get Michaela, Gabriela and Raphaela, I
don't see why you couldn't do the same to Ismael.

Christopher de Cuellar

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date:
Sat, 17 May 2014 13:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: D G
> To:
"general@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
> Message-ID:
>    <1400359538.40703.YahooMailNeo@web141206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Joseph,
>
> I'm pretty discouraged. I've
been a member for almost a year now, submitted my family tree info in a folder and also on the Forum blog, (2x). I need help to see if anyone has heard of any my family names in my tree, and if they know about the name Ismael being a girl's name, but to no avail. No one
replies, I haven't gotten a single response from anyone since I've been a member.? I don't know why and what I'm doing wrong. Am I posting it in the wrong place or something? Can you help me? ?
>
> -Donna Gonzalez
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>

Donna

Like Raul, I do not recall seeing your previous posts.

I took a brief look at the indexed Tepetongo church records at Family Search, and I believe I may have found some records that may be of interest, but they need further research.

I did a search for children of Francisco Acevedo and Florencia Nava. In the results, there are three children, although not one that you have named, but the time period is correct, so I looked at one of the baptismal records:

Bruno Acevedo, baptized 16 Oct 1890, San Juan Bautista, Tepetongo, the son of Francisco Acevedo and Florencia Nava. The paternal grandparents are Antonio Acevedo and Guadelupe Marquez; the maternal grandparents are Domingo Nava and Jesus Acevedo. There is a marginal note in the baptismal record that Bruno married Martina Dias on 16 Jan 1915 (the church is not stated, but in the absence of a place I would assume San Juan Bautista).

In your information you have the parents of Francisco Acevedo as "Marquez Acevedo" and "Guadelupe Mar ...). I suspect "Marquez Acevedo" may be an error, as I have never seen "Marquez" as a first name (although it is certainly possible), and seeing that as Guadelupe's surname in the records leads me to conclude that the names may have been mixed up somewhere. Also, you have "Guadelupe Mar ..." which could actually be "Guadelupe Marquez." Perhaps you have other information that could prove or disprove this supposition.

At least some of the Tepetongo baptisms and marriages have been extracted; the civil records apparently have not been. The extractions often went into the 1880s, sometimes later.

I suspect that you will be successful in your search of the online Tepetongo records.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

That is very possible and not unheard of. Even nowadays men are having
children in there 70's. Of course the mother is much younger. In rural
communities you might hear of a 16yr old married to a well established 60'
yr old.
On May 16, 2014 9:43 PM, wrote:

> Can my great great grandfather have kids in his 60's?
>
> I have found baptismos where my great great grandfather Patricio Madera
> and Dimas De La Paz had kids in the 1850's:
>
> Julian Madera, who is the brother of my great grandfather Calixto Madera,
> born in 1859:
> http://oi60.tinypic.com/x1leoj.jpg
>
> Calistra Madera born in 1853:
> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=taoglx&s=8#.U3avvNJdWO0
>
> Listed as parents: Patrico Madera and Dimas De La Paz, Paternal
> Grandparents Juan Benancion Madera and Geronima Fernandez
>
> Here is the baptism of my great great grandfather Patricio Madera in 1792:
> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=34ezs0k&s=8#.U3av4tJdWO0
>
> And his parents is Juan Benancio Madera and Maria Josefa
>
> Here is the baptism of Juan Venancio Madera of Rancho De Los Maderas in
> 1762:
> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4joxmh&s=8#.U3awJNJdWO0
>
>
> So I would have to think that for my great great grandfather Patricio to
> have kids in his 60's would mean the woman he had them with Dimas De La Paz
> may have been his second wife and a younger female or I have made an error
> in finding the correct Patricio Madera? But I connected Juan Benancio
> Madera as his father in the baptism records

not sure of your message,

but I sent you an email early Saturday about needing Yahoo Messenger and
a Yahoo Email account (both free to download off the internet) to be in
the chat. did you get that message.

not sure what you mean below?

joseph

MMG8938@aol.com wrote:

>So I do I chat??
>
>Mickey

I had a somewhat similar situation in my research.

The sister of my g-g-grandfather was said to have been born on a particular date but there is no record of her. However, there is a baptismal record of the masculine version of her name (Anastacia, Anastacio) showing the same birth date. Within the record it shows "hijo de" and also lists the name as "Jose Anastacio." (There is no family remembrance as to her having a twin.)

My current theory is that the priest just screwed-up. Perhaps when writing down the information of the baptism at a later time he inadvertently mixed-up the genders trying to remember if a child was a boy or a girl. I saw the same situation in another record, not of my family, but within baptismal records.

There are no civil records available to double check the birth. Have you tried looking for him and her in the civil records?

That is my best guess on your question.

Good luck!

Michael Carrillo

I believe it is "morisco" not monijo. This was a caste in colonial Mexico given to people of mixed ancestry, usually native, black, and español. Castes became complex as to people's mixture. You'll also notice the mother has no surname, which in many instances may refer to indio, but not always.

Saludos,
Daniel Méndez de Torres C.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 16, 2014, at 5:16 PM, zacatecano020@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> As I was browsing the baptism records and in the year 1778, I came across this name that is odd and born in Rancho De Los Maderas in 1778:
>
> Jose Gil Abad Monijio
>
> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=16bc86d&s=8#.U3anZdJdWO0
>
> Can someone help me out and tell me what kind of name is that?
>
>

It is likely the same person, unless you know there were more than one (sometimes siblings) person with the same name, the place and time match, Godparents weren't always couples, thus the difference between María de Guizar and María Leocadia.

Nicolas Picaso, single, born and live in Santa María. 22 years old. Son of Perfecto Picaso (alive) and Quirina Gonzalez (defunct)

María de Jesus Morones, born in "this" city and live in Santa María, single, 26 years old, daughter of Teodoro Morones (defunct) and Benita Morones (alive)

Godparents: Refugio Picaso and Felicitas Morones
Witnesses: Perfecto Picaso and Felix de León (adults and residents of Santa María)

The information is in the book number 46, folio 148.
The Groom christening record is in the book number 49, page 182, third entry.
The Bride || book number 46, page 85, second entry.

I don't think they were previously married, the city for the bride is the one where the wedding took place, the last paragraph is the actual reference for their vital records.

Hello Mary and welcome to the group! My paternal grandfather is from the same area that you are researching (ranchos of Santa Maria, La Mololoa, Troje de Urquiola...) and I believe we have a few common ancestors.

Based on what I've found our most recent common ancestor line is as follows:

1. Marcos Perez and Maria Antonia Magdaleno aka Ursua, aka Dondiego married 20 April 1755 in Lagos de Moreno
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18560-24562-16?cc=1874591&wc…

2. Jose Alvino Perez and Maria Vicenta de Torres (parents Jose Guadalupe de Torres and Maria Narcisa de Aguilar) married 22 March 1801 in Encarnacion de Diaz
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-58110-13?cc=1874591&wc…

3. Maria Dorotea Rafaela Perez (born 26 January 1802 in Santa Maria) and Gerardo Cervantes (parents Jose Cervantes and Antonia Ramirez) married 10 November 1819 in Encarnacion de Diaz.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18524-5601-35?cc=1874591&wc=…

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-55243-13?cc=1874591&wc…

4. Quirino Cervantes (baptized 15 January 1834, I did not find the baptism record it may have been recorded out of order) and Maria Agatona Escoto (parents Jose Urbano Escoto and Maria Salome Valdez aka Valadez) married 1 June 1855 in Encarnacion de Diaz
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NGHZ-94D

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18565-30193-53?cc=1874591&wc…

5. Did not find information on Modesto Gonzalez but did find his siblings
a. Luis Cervantes (born 24 August 1867 in Santa Maria)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-4204-6?cc=1874591&wc=M…

b. Victoriana Cervantes (born 23 March 1870 in Santa Maria) and Bernardo Gonzalez (parents Jose Maria Gonzalez and Juliana Chavez). Family Search index has Victoriana incorrectly identified as a male. Victoriana's godparents Jose Maria de Leon and Paula Ornelas are my 2nd great grandparents.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-14200-18?cc=1874591&wc…

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18559-6183-37?cc=1874591&wc=…

c. Nemesia Cervantes (born 30 October 1872 in Santa Maria)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-16164-63?cc=1874591&wc…

I post my research on the internet using WikiTree where you can find this information (http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Cervantes-Family-Tree-133) and also what I have found for Filomeno Picasso's ancestry (http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Picasso-Family-Tree-12). Let me know if you this information does not line up with what you have.

Best
Austin Perez

Susan Carmona

Hello ,
im new to the group and noticed we have a few ancestors in common.

my 2nd great grandparents are Perfecto Picazo and Quirina Gonzales . this is from my paternal side of the family .

My 1st great granparents are Nicolas Gonzales Picazo and Maria de jesus Morones.

my grand parents are Antonia Picazo and Cirilo Barraza Gomez

Susan Carmona

Hello ,
im new to the group and noticed we have a few ancestors in common.

my 2nd great grandparents are Perfecto Picazo and Quirina Gonzales . this is from my paternal side of the family .

My 1st great granparents are Nicolas Gonzales Picazo and Maria de jesus Morones.

my grand parents are Antonia Picazo and Cirilo Barraza Gomez

Mary:

Here are some siblings for your great-grandfather Perfecto Picazo:

Higinio Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 25 SEP 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 31 MAY 1876 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 18 NOV 1870 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Victoriana Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 28 MAY 1873 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Martina Picazo - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 12 JAN 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico

As far as Quirino CERBANTES, there is another Quirino who is a possible candidate for your ancestor, given that he was married to Agatona SOTO in 1855. I would suggest you get Film No. 1155498 through a Family History Center and read the record which should list Quirino's and Agatona's parents, even though this information was not extracted into IGI.

QUIRINO CERBANTES ORTIS
Christening: 08 JAN 1821
La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Parents:
Father: YGNACIO CERBANTES
Mother: EDUVIGE ORTIS

Mary:

Welcome to the group. I hope we can be of help here though it seems that you are pretty far along in your search and certainly have the right intuition in that in Mexico the Catholic church sacramental records are the key.

As far as your grandmother's name of Quirina Ferrel or Gonzalez, I would say that Ferrel was a second given name. I have seen the name Ferrer often appears as a second given name and the name Quirina is so unique that it must be the same Quirina. Probably names Quirina Ferrel Gonzalez Macias in current day standard Mexican naming convention, i.e First Given Name, Second Given Name, Paternal Surname, Maternal Surname.

It is important to note that there was a high level of illiteracy until the mid 1900s in Mexico and as such most people did not know how to spell their own last names. Furthermore, the Spanish language, particularly its spelling was not as standardized as it is today and thus even priests and certainly deacons, etc writing down records would write names as they heard them, often spelling them in very different ways. People when asked their names I would imagine often omitted the surname as they were not accustomed to using it and if they had two given names, the priests would take the second given name to be the surname or simply omit the surname as many lacked one altogether (especially indigenous people).

Some tips, when you get back far enough, marriage dispensations may come in handy. Also, the films section of the website will help you search the LDS databases using batch numbers which can be very useful as you can search with as little or as much information as you have on hand, i.e. with a mother's given name only, father's surname only or simply browse through all of the entries on an entire film.

We have many of the same first names in our lines, but so far nothing matches up. Although I have not pursued the Cervantes line or the Gonzalez lines extensively, I can be a some help. Try searching on Serbantes and Servantes as these are other variations that will yield very different results. My lines of Cervantes are in the areas of Tepatitlan and Jalostotitlan. If you find any Ledesma or Deledesma in your lines, let me know.

Welcome to the group. Everyone here has been very helpful to me with their gracious suggestions and new ideas. This helps so much, especially when I am stuck on something! Just a little while back I was trying to translate a marriage document and was having trouble with the meanings of a few words, when lo and behold there is a posting about Latin words used alongside the Spanish in some baptisms and matrimonies. I am sure you will enjoy all the information that is on this site and all the history and cultural lessons we have on our posts.

Welcome again and hope you enjoy!

Maureen