Nuestros Ranchos Site

If I have an actual date, I usually start from that date and look backwards in the Informacion matrimonial. Usually I find that what I am looking for was recorded two to three months before the actual wedding date, however I have had cases where I found the information six months to a year before the actual wedding. It all depends if the marriage was contested or if the individuals had to provide additional documentation to be cleared to marry.
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: analemmer@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 16:58:58 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] informacion matrimonial
>
> I was wondering how to look up informacion matrimonial if i have the actual wedding date..what dates do i need to look at...my second request is if any maps of the old haciendas/ranchos or towns exists..i am researching jalisco..some of the places are el sentro,,la azerquila,,el carrizo,,palocuate and others...any and all help will be appreciated

Those look to be places near Arandas.

Palo Cuate
http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/palo-cuate-3/

El Carrizal (possibly was formerly known as El Carrizo)
http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/el-carrizal-carrizal-de-abajo/

El Centro
http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/el-centro-2/

I can't find La Azerquila nor do I have any idea of the origin or meaning
of the word. It may have gone through a name change or the current spelling
might be very different.

Saludos
Armando

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:58 PM, wrote:

> I was wondering how to look up informacion matrimonial if i have the
> actual wedding date..what dates do i need to look at...my second request is
> if any maps of the old haciendas/ranchos or towns exists..i am researching
> jalisco..some of the places are el sentro,,la azerquila,,el
> carrizo,,palocuate and others...any and all help will be appreciated

Ana,

You can find the informacion matrimonial records, usually in the same collection where you found the marriage record. Just that it is called informacion matrimonial. Usually the entry in the informacion matrimonial record is found within 3 weeks to 2 months before the actual marriage. Also be aware, that not every marriage was kept in the informacion matrimonial.

If you are looking for old maps, try looking at davidrumsey.com , they do have some old maps for different states in Mexico. If you are trying to find where the places are/were at, I would suggest the gazetteer by Antonio Garcia Cubas. the link to the collection is http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm .

I hope that this helps.

thanks,
Jonathan Walker

go to the link below, then click the municupality you want to look for records in(in your case click guadalajara)

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.f…

then click the part of guadalajara they came fromn, and see if you can find a collection of baptismal records that contain the years they were born. if not then search for both of their parents(if you know their names and birth year and month of course. the reason why i didn't say birthday since the baptismal day isn't usually on the child's birthday, it's sometime after, like a couple days, perhaps weeks)

this 17 page testimony is a denouncement of Valentin Dolores Acosta and Maria Laurentina Flores marriage based on their relationship of being cousins. Valentin's mother Juana De San Pablo de Casas brouht this action one year after her son married. This is everyone's testimony.

I don't understand why Juana thought her son's marriage was invalid.

Jose Carlos de Leon

This is fascinating. Dionicio was a Spaniard? The doc is kind of hard to read, but I get that he had an affair with his sister-in-law, but I don't see what the purpose is? They had to confess their sins AND get it written up in the church books as well? Has anyone ever seen anything like this before. I haven't checked the other pages to see if it's more of the same stuff.

Dionicio Flores is my 3rd GGF. This appears to be an info/inquest hearing of his marriage to Gertrudis Mendoza. It states that he was having an illicit affair with Margarita Olaya Mendoza, his wife's sister.

Jose Carlos de Leon

What a nice way to say "so long" to those who loved us and we loved back, and mostly to honor their lives and culture with such a frame!
I have to quote Daniel Webster: "The man who feels no sentiment of veneration for the memory of his forefathers; who has no natural regard for his ancestors, or his kindred, is himself unworthy
of kindred regard, or remembrance"
No more to say, my fraternal hug goes for you and your family, and thank you very much for sharing.

erniealderete@charter.net escribió:
That's all fascinating, cousin John. I hope to get back to researching our ancestry after I settle into my new home this weekend.

I leave Los Angeles this Friday en route to my new home which I have named Las Brisas.
A magnificent 5-unit complex on 47th Avenue between Sutro Heights and Balboa in the Outer Richmond.

Its a block east of Sutro Heights Park, 2 blocks north of Golden Gate Park, an easy walk to Ocean, Baker and Seal Rocks Beaches. An exquisite site! My not so little chunk of paradise.

I have my three properties in Los Angeles for sale. Please email me in private if anyone is interested in my three bedroom, one bath home in Monterey Park, my 2 bedroom, 1 bath Victorian on Eastlake in Lincoln Heights, and my large three lots with duplex and outbuildings in City Terrace near Cal State LA.

I'll have to find a new Family History Center in San Francisco to do my research in.
I'll check out the Sutro Library as well.

I;ve been in Los Angeles for the last 12 years caring for my ailing mother who passed away on August 9. My sister and I dressed her the way Petronilla Moctezuma would have dressed for her final journey.

We released three dozen Monarch butterfiles at Resurrection Cemetery, the kind of butterfly Petronilla would have been well acquainted with.

---- John Gonzalez <1gnzlz@verizon.net> wrote:
> Emilie:

Here's some information that I am hoping will help you.

LDS Batch F868769, Film #1396289

Lope de Esparza 2nd Marriage: Batch 7412803 Film #0934233

Lope Ruiz de Esparza married Francisca Gabay and Lorenza, Married to Capitan
Luis Tiscareño Molina y Marquez, was their daughter.

Capitan Luis Tiscareño de Molina: Batch F868327 Film #1396258

Here's some information about the Hacienda:

"La Hacienda Nueva de Morcinique"
Aguascalientes, Ags, Mexico.

La Hacienda Nueva de Morcinique debe su nombre a su cercanía con el rio del
mismo nombre. Se ubica sobre el camino real a Calvillo, camino que tambien
comunicaba con las haciendas de Gracias a Dios, San Jose de Gudalupe y el
Sauz. Fue una de las haciendas mas chicas en el estado. En 1972 tenía una
superficie de 2,600 hectáreas; habia sido propiedad del presbítero Ignacio
Rincón Gallardo, quien en 1820 la cedió como parte de un patronato benéfico
que sería administrado por el Ayntamiento de Aguascalientes. Estaba dotada
de una buenapresa, canales y acequias, además de una gran casa principal.
Apartir de 1855, el Ayuntamiento decidió venderla en fracciones. Su presa
fue traspasada en 1863 a los señores Cornú y Stiker, para formar parte de su
hacienda industrial de San Ignacio.

.com

Denise Fastrup

Hello

I found this post yesterday and out of curiousity decided to try it. Got to the image but when I click on the + to enlarge, the image disappears and I get a little x up in the corner.I hope someone else will take a minute to try to enlarge the image and let me know if it worked. Here is the direct link to the pagewhich gives access to the image - click on VER IMAGINES.

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&tx…

Thanks (in advance!)
Denise

I have recently finished reading the book "Moctezuma's Children, Aztec Royalty Under Spanish Rule, 1520-1700" by Donald E. Chipman. What an excellent book! And it's in English which makes it easier for me to truly understand! It has genealogy charts for Moctezuma, his children and grandchildren. Donald Chipman is professor Emeritus of History at the University of North Texas in Denton. In 2003, King Juan Carlos I of Spain knighted him as a Caballero of the Royal Order of Isabella the Catholic, the highest honor that can be accorded to a non-Spaniard. In this book he discusses the politics and cultures of Mexico, Spain and the Caribbean Islands which really help make our ancestors come to life. He and his assistants have spent years of research in both Mexico and Spain and everything is thoroughly documented. For those of you who may be interested, I purchased this book at BarnesandNoble.com and paid $24.95 US. However, after I purchased it, I found that it was cheaper ($16.75 US) bought directly through The University of Texas Press at www.utexaspress.com.

One of the problems I have encountered as I document my ancestors on Ancestry.com is that so many of my contacts have wrong information. I am sure the errors are because the same first names are used over and over again through the various generations! Many of these trees show that Leonor Cortes Moctezuma, the child of Isabel Moctezuma and Fernando Cortes as being married to Cristobal Valderrama. This is NOT the case. Leonor Cortes Moctezuma was married to Juan de Tolosa and he and Leonor had three children: Isabel de Tolosa Cortes Moctezuma (Isabel married Juan de Onate, the future adelantado of New Mexico and son of Cristobal de Onate), Leonor de Tolosa Cortes Moctezuma, and their brother, Juan de Tolosa Cortes Moctezuma, who was a vicar.

Mariana Leonor Moctezuma was the one who married Cristobal de Valderrama. They had only one child, Leonor de Valderrama y Moctezuma who married Diego Arias Sotelo. They had three children: 1) Fernando Sotelo de Moctezuma (who had four children: Diego Sotelo de Moctezuma-cleric, Leonor Sotelo de Moctezuma-spinster, Ana Sotelo de Moctezuma-became nun, and Juan Sotelo de Moctezuma-bachelor) 2) Ana Sotelo de Moctezuma (who became a nun) and, 3) Cristobal Sotelo de Moctezuma who married Juana de Heredia Patino. In these charts there is no mention of Petronila Sotelo de Moctezuma as a fourth child. In my family linage it shows her to be a daughter of Leonor Valderrama Moctezuma and Diego Arias Sotelo. It also shows her husband as being Martin Navarro de Gabay. Does anyone know if this is actually correct??? I have been unable to find anything relating them. I have tried many different variations on FamilySearch.org, but I know that in my years of research, some records seem to hide out, only to pop out later! I sure would appreciate any information.

Many thanks to all,
Judith (Gerry) Marentes

George,
Tried the search in Pares following your instructions for advanced search, but I got a message that the document could not be found. Is there another field in addition to the ones you mentioned that may be missing from your instructions.

Thanks

Jaime Alvarado

Hola Members,In www.somosprimos.com this January's issue there is a Moctezuma lineage in the mexican chapter. Maybe I missed something or blind ,who was Petrolina de Moctezuma's parents ? I might of overlooked it or dont know what I was reading.
Ronnie Reynoso

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 21:39:00 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Moctezuma's Descendants in the Archive of the Indies
>
> I have found some charts of the descendants of Moctezuma in the Archive of the Indies in Portal Archivos de Espanoles (PARES) that may be of interest to Nuestros Ranchos members:
>
> AGI: MP-ESCUDOS 212
>
> This is a one page chart created after 1594 (exact date unknown). The page is partially damaged on the sides (thus some information is missing), and is headed with Moctezuma, then daughter Dona Ysabel with her three legitimate marriages (Alonso de Grado, Pedro Gallegos Andrade, and Juan Cano).
>
> Her illegitmate daughter by Cortes is not shown.
>
> AGI: MP-ESCUDOS 211 and AGI: PATRONATO 245 R.5
>
> These two documents show the same chart (211 is more legible than 245), but 245 has a narrative of several pages (which is not easy to read; however, the chart is easy to read). This document was made about 1574. This has somewhat less information than the previous chart, but does have additionally children of three of Moctezuma's wives, including Dona Leonore, daughter of wife Acatlan, and her daughter, Dona Lenore alias Dona Marina, who married Cristobal de Valderrama (who is also named in the chart).
>
> These are the earliest documents I've seen that actually name some of Moctezuma's descendants.
>
> There are other documents that provide more detail on the descendants of Pedro Moctezuma, whose descendants moved into the Spanish nobility.
>
> The images are high quality and can be expanded without much lost of detail.
>
> PARES is at http://pares.mcu.es/
>
> To search for these documents go the Busqueda Avanzada. Under Filtro por Archivo choose Archivo General de Indias; then use Filtro por Signatura and Seleccionar to select the specific document (Signatura; for example MP-ESCUDOS and 211). Clicking on a document page gives the enlarged image; right click on the enlarged image with the mouse allows you to save the image on your computer.

Sometimes if they were related you will find where they had to provide a family tree for both individuals in the "Informacion Matrimonial" records.
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: detective1920@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 17:15:55 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] how do i firgure out how this couple is related
>
> when i was looking up marriage records jose manueel villegas's sister gertrudis i found this page
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18453-62919-41?cc=1874591&wc…
>
> the document says that she is related to her spouse, but it doesn't say how.
>
> trying to figure this out will help me at least find the name of her grandparents on at least one side of her family.

Check out Guadalajaradispensas.com to see if it has been extracted.
 
Anna Arellano Smith
 
Sacramento area 

From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 5:15 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] how do i firgure out how this couple is related

when i was looking up marriage records jose manueel villegas's sister gertrudis i found this page

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18453-62919-41?cc=1874591&wc…

the document says that she is related to her spouse, but it doesn't say how.

trying to figure this out will help me at least find the name of her grandparents on at least one side of her family.

The names with a question mark are Ma. Eugenia de Haro (which you had
correctly) and Gertrudis Mayorga.

Teniente de cura is an auxiliary priest that does some of the work of the
regular priest. The regular priest is the one that is responsible for the
church.

Illegitimate children were definitely baptized. The baptisms would say hijo
de padres no conocidos when neither parent was named amd hijo natural when
only the mother was named or if both parents were names but not married.

Just because the baptism record can't be found doesn't mean she wasn't
baptized. It could be a name was written incorrectly when your ancestor was
baptized or the record was lost. There are a lot of baptisms that are
missing for a lot of my ancestors or their siblings.

Armando

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Laura Gonzalez wrote:

> Hola,
>
> Can someone help me decipher the names with (??) on this baptismal
> certificate?
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15087-5072-31?cc=1410092&wc=…
> (left side, last entry)
>
> Here's what I've figured out so far:
> Name: Jose Tiburcio Castañeda
> Gender: M
> Baptism date: 26 Apr 1832
> Church: San Cayetano
> Birth date: 14 Apr 1832
> Birth place: "Cerritos" Atolinga, Zac
> Father's name: Julio Castañeda
> Mother's name: Ma. del Refugio Gonzales
> Paternal grandparents: Antonio Castañeda & Ma. Eugenia (??) de Haro (??)
> Maternal grandparents: Salvador Gonzales & Gertrudis Mayorea Mayorga(??)
>
> Also, what does "teniente" de cura mean?
>
> I see (y me da risa), that baptismal certificates say "hijo legítimo" or
> "h.l." Does that mean non-legitimate children (called "natural" right?)
> weren't baptized? I cannot find my great-grandmother, but I found (some)
> siblings. Maybe she wasn't baptized?
>
> Thanks,
> Laura
>

To Laura,

The maternal grandmother is simply Gertrudis Mayorga. The other names are OK as you have them. A suggestion: you may want to keep track of the name of the padrinos. Sometimes those names are helpful. Teniente de cura means assistant priest or ass't pastor. All of the children who were brought to be baptized were baptized. They were labeled differently. I hope this helps you.

David Delgado, Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Laura Gonzalez
>Sent: May 31, 2012 3:11 PM
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help reading baptismal certificate
>
>Hola,
>
>Can someone help me decipher the names with (??) on this baptismal
>certificate?
>https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15087-5072-31?cc=1410092&wc=…
> (left side, last entry)
>
>Here's what I've figured out so far:
>Name: Jose Tiburcio Castañeda
>Gender: M
>Baptism date: 26 Apr 1832
>Church: San Cayetano
>Birth date: 14 Apr 1832
>Birth place: "Cerritos" Atolinga, Zac
>Father's name: Julio Castañeda
>Mother's name: Ma. del Refugio Gonzales
>Paternal grandparents: Antonio Castañeda & Ma. Eugenia (??) de Haro (??)
>Maternal grandparents: Salvador Gonzales & Gertrudis Mayorea Mayorga(??)
>
>Also, what does "teniente" de cura mean?
>
>I see (y me da risa), that baptismal certificates say "hijo legítimo" or
>"h.l." Does that mean non-legitimate children (called "natural" right?)
>weren't baptized? I cannot find my great-grandmother, but I found (some)
>siblings. Maybe she wasn't baptized?
>
>Thanks,
>Laura
>

Hello Denise,

I can't help you with what you are asking about. Here is what I can give
you:

The marriage of the parents of Joseph Raphael Prudencio Romo de Vivar and
Joseph Raphael Silvestre Romo de Vivar (Antonio Romo and Maria Ana de Alva)
can be found at the following:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-13033-121643-47?cc=1410092…

The parents of Antonio Romo were my ancestors Miguel Romo de Vivar (hijo
natural de José Romo de Vivar y Ruiz de Esparza) and Josefa Ana Macías
Valadez y Gómez de Espejo.

As far as finding out which Rafael married Rafaela you need to find both of
the baptisms and see if either of them died at birth. If not then look
through all of the volumes of Información Matrimonial for the whole state
of Aguascalientes which would be a daunting task. What you could get from
the Información Matrimonial is the reported age of the groom but it isn't
always accurate, however if you can find one for both Joseph Raphael
Prudencio Romo de Vivar and Joseph Raphael Silvestre Romo de Vivar and they
both reported their age and one showed older than the other then you would
know which one is which.

Saludos
Armando

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 2:33 PM, wrote:

> Denise Fastrup
>
> Hello
>
> (I originally posted the message below as a reply in my Romo forum topic,
> but it didn't show up in a google search, so I am resending it here as a
> separate topic to hopefully make the information easier for someone else to
> find - who knows, someone may look for Rapahel Silvestre at some point in
> the future...)
>
> I am still searching for the marriage record for Don Joseph Raphael Romo
> and Maria Rafaela Aguilar. I have earlier posted some Romo names I have
> come across. Below is one more Romo which I found in the indexed
> FamilySearch source. The names of the parents are the same as for Joseph
> Raphael Prudencio Romo Alba b. 1765. So in other words there were two
> Raphael Romos born in the same decade, same place, same parents, and the
> question is which one married Maria Rafaela...then next question is if the
> Maria Rafaela mother of Manuel Romo who later moved San Buenaventura, is
> indeed the Maria Casilda Rafaela Aguilar Chaves who was born in
> Aguascalientes in 1763.
> So if anyone out there has the record of birth/christening for Manuel
> Romo, from Aguascalientes, married to Maria Ygnacia Rodriguez in San
> Buenaventura, or the marriage record for Rapahel Romo and Maria Raphaela
> Aguilar of Aguascalientes, please post.
>
> I have been through the Ag. Ag. Sagr. records for 1782 - 1787, and 1787 -
> 91, minus the ones that didnt show properly (which I am now rechecking) and
> have had no luck.
>
> I have not been able to explore the church records for the image of
> Silvestres record of birth, due to technical issues with downloading the
> images, otherwise I'd of course make it available. But here is the basic
> info for anyone researching the Romos...
>
> Name:
>
> Jph. Raphael Silvestre Romo Alva
> Gender: Male
> Baptism/Christening Date: 20 Dec 1767
> Baptism/Christening Place: EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,**
> AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
> Birth Date:
> Birthplace:
> Death Date:
> Name Note:
> Race:
> Father's Name: Antonio Romo
> Father's Birthplace:
> Father's Age:
> Mother's Name: Maria Ana De Alva
> Mother's Birthplace:
> Mother's Age:
> Paternal Grandfather's Name:
> Paternal Grandmother's Name:
> Maternal Grandfather's Name:
> Maternal Grandmother's name:
>
> Indexing Project (Batch) Number:
>
> C60484-4
> System Origin:
>
> Mexico-ODM
> Source Film Number:
>
> 299533
> Source Citation
>
> "Mexico, Baptisms, 1560-1950," index, FamilySearch (
> https://familysearch.org/pal:**/MM9.1.1/NTMP-BZK: accessed 26 May 2012), Jph. Raphael Silvestre Romo Alva, 1767.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.1.1/NTMP-BZK
> Regards,
> Denise Fastrup
>

Hello Katy,

You actually posted a link of some marriages of Colotlán. However, if your ancestor Isabel de Ulloa was a parishioner of Colotlán, there is a hamlet called "Arroyo del Fraile", located in the municipality of Del Nayar in the state of Nayarit. It is relatively close to Colotlán.

Here is the link of an informational page of "Arroyo del Fraile" that contains a map of the community.

http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/arroyo-del-fraile/

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Pues yo recuerdo que alguno de los miembros de nuestros ranchos comento algo molesto del asunto y la persona que llevaba la pagina decidio ya no comentar mas respecto.

En mi opinion debemos utilizar toda clase de herramienta incluido el ADN para destrabar algunas de nuestras investigaciones, a algunos de nosotros se nos ha complicado la busqueda por falta de archivos ya sea que fueron quemados y destruidos por las guerras o por desastres naturales. Hay personas que han busacdo por varios años y han encontrado con dificultad los registros (dificilmente pero han sido encontrados).Yo los invito a que utilicen esta herramienta. Pongo mi ejemplo, me caban de entregar mi resultado de Family Finder donde me han dado varias pistas de por donde se llegaron algunos de mis primos, lo que da pistas por donde buscar.

I have a Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado married to Juana Delgadillo. I do not have his parents. Juana's parents are Diego Delgadillo y Petrona de Ysala/Isla/Isala. Is this same family that you're referring to?

There is a Lorenz Alvarez Tostado bapt 02 May 1694, Nochistlan, with parents being Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado y Juana Delgadillo. I view this baptism record but was having a difficult time translating many of the words.

Document location: Nochistlan - 1688-1718 Batismos - Image 121 of 613 (right side of page).

Juana is my husband's 8th Great Grand Aunt, sister of Isabel (Calderon) Delgadillo, married 03 Jul 1667 to Pedro Enriquez who is also his 8th Great Grand Aunt. Their sister Mariana Delgadillo bapt 23 Mar 1655 Nochistlan married to Francisco Flores de Medrano is our direct maternal ancestry.

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald Reynoso"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 2:38:29 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado and Josepha Alvarez Tostado

Hola Every one ,seeking out Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado and his first Wife Josepha Alvarez Tostado. Lorenzo was married to Josepha prior to 1725. Lorenzo's second wife was Gertrudis Efigenia Ramirez de Hermosillo april 19,1725 in Jalostotitlan located in Matrimonios 1707-1748 image #191. I was looking at the Dispensas that Claudia has given and no go . I was thinking they were probably related and needed to go through dispensation but have not found it yet. Has anyone had any luck ? I am descended to Lorenzo and his two wives.
Thank you
Ronnie Reynoso

Ronnie, where is the best place to find the Dispensas?

Miggy

> From: chilerey@msn.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 14:38:29 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado and Josepha Alvarez Tostado
>
>
> Hola Every one ,seeking out Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado and his first Wife Josepha Alvarez Tostado. Lorenzo was married to Josepha prior to 1725. Lorenzo's second wife was Gertrudis Efigenia Ramirez de Hermosillo april 19,1725 in Jalostotitlan located in Matrimonios 1707-1748 image #191. I was looking at the Dispensas that Claudia has given and no go . I was thinking they were probably related and needed to go through dispensation but have not found it yet. Has anyone had any luck ? I am descended to Lorenzo and his two wives.
> Thank you
> Ronnie Reynoso